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Non-military target = war crimes
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Feb 15, 2015 20:56:19   #
Mr Shako Loc: Colo Spgs
 
rodericktbeaman wrote:
I don't care how much time you've toiled in the National Archives or anything else, your interpretation of events is that we're the good guys & they're the bad guys.

Yes, Yamamoto planned the attack but he counseled against it & even your history admits that. It was out of loyalty to his country that he went along with the war faction.

And yes Hitler declared war on us when he really had no treaty obligation to do so. Historians have pondered the question as to why. As I understand, most think it was out of some sense of loyalty to an ally.

I assume you think that FDR got us out of The Depression.
I don't care how much time you've toiled in the Na... (show quote)


Just for the record, Ron. The Tripartite Pact between Japan, Germany, and Italy stated that should either country go to war w/ a nation not currently a belligerant against the other two (thus eliminating GB and France but leaving the door upen for the US & USSR) the other two countries would come to their aid. Thus, Hitler and Duce declared war on us. What historians should really ponder is what the course of history might have been if Hitler had not made such a commitment. My guess is we would have gone to war w/ Germany over their U-boat campaign since we were already in a shooting war in the Atlantic with them for the past yr and a half and the doctrine of unrestricted submarine warfare had not yet been adopted by the US Navy. Once it did, the gloves came off and we did the very same thing U-boat command was doing...mostly in the Pacific since the German mechant marine was bottled up in the Baltic by the Royal Navy.

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Feb 15, 2015 21:29:16   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
Let's hope we never see the likes of it again. Socialism, in its various permutations, led countries to destroy 150 million of their own citizens.

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Feb 15, 2015 21:32:55   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
It was my impression that Germany,Japan & Italy would each come to the aid of any one of the others who was attacked. Japan was not attacked, ergo neither Hitler no Mussolini was required to join Japan. That was the version I read in a long cover story on the war in Time magazine.

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Feb 15, 2015 22:00:18   #
Mr Shako Loc: Colo Spgs
 
Re the Dresden Fire Bomb raid.

During the Battle of Britain there was a time when it looked like the RAF was finished. But because Bomber Command had attcked Berlin, Hitler was infuriated and directed the Luftwaffe to cease attacking RAF airfields and instead, go after the cities. This gave Fighter Command the respite it needed albeit at the expense of some British cities and their unarmed civilian populace. Sound familiar? This is known as The Blitz. Fires burned continually in London. Those of us who are old enough remember Edward R. Murrow reporting on the air during such a raid. This bombing of cities--or "Terror bombing" as it was sometimes referred to--was part of Douhet's theory on air war. He believed if you bombed the civilian populace long and hard enough they would rise up and demand their gov't sue for peace. Thus the belief that in the next war air power alone could win a war and hence, no need for ground forces except as occupiers. And the only way to successfully implement this theory was if each nation had an independent air force free from control of grd force "hide-bound" generals...like those in the US Army. Thus the RAF and Luftwaffe came into being but no USAF until 1947.

The RAF recuperated and the Battle of Britain was won. Hitler abandoned his plans to invade England.

The precedent for attacking cities and their unarmed civilian populace was established. The Germans have no b***h coming.

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Feb 15, 2015 23:05:12   #
Mollypitcher1
 
Mr Shako wrote:
The 20th Century is the century of total war. We may never see the likes of it again.

The RAF had sustained heavy losses during daylight raids over Germany. When 8th AF had enough B-17s at English bases, the RAF went to nighttime attacks; we did the daylight raids. We took terrible losses at the famous (or infamous if you prefer) Scweinfurt/Regensburg raid against the heavily defended ball-bearing plants located there. 8th was forced to stand down for about 2 weeks. Eaker was booted upstairs to Vice COS, US Army Air Forces. Spaatz took over.It was now painfully obvious to all that the Air Corps Tac School doctrine of the self-defending bomber formation (based on the writings of Gulio Douhet, Billy Mitchell, and even Lord Trenchard of the RAF) didn't hold water. The "self-defending formation" simply could not adequately defend itself against a determined fighter interceptor air force like the Luftwaffe. The key were the US fighter escorts which in the P-51 and P-47 were better than the Focke-Wulf 190 and ME-i09. But their range was limited. As soon as our guys turned back up came the German fighters. How did we increase range? We developed the paper-mache drop tank. Our boys used them first, then dropped them as the enemy fighters--surprised beyond belief when we didn't turn back--came up for battle. German pilots in their memoires recalled how they knew right then and there the air battle over Germany was lost. Of course, had Hitler not intervened and made the ME-262 a grd support acft instead of an interceptor (for the most part) we might have had the air war d**g on until 1947.

Pardon the digression. I get carried away sometimes.
The 20th Century is the century of total war. We m... (show quote)


And it is a pleasure when people get carried away when they know what they are talking about, instead of those who get carried away spouting their anti-American propaganda. Thank you!

:thumbup:

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Feb 15, 2015 23:14:18   #
Mr Shako Loc: Colo Spgs
 
Mollypitcher1 wrote:
And it is a pleasure when people get carried away when they know what they are talking about, instead of those who get carried away spouting their anti-American propaganda. Thank you!

:thumbup:


And thank you for your kind words.

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Feb 15, 2015 23:20:49   #
Mollypitcher1
 
Mr Shako wrote:
And thank you for your kind words.


I have two favorite airplanes, the French SPAD S XIII and the P-51. I always go to every Airshow that comes around the corner just to see once again the P51. Kinda gotta like the A 10 too.
Thanks again Mr. Shako.

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