The UMC, $$, and same sex marriage: Not too long ago, the UMC finally decided a decades-old argument. The denomination actually decided to split over liberal vs. conservative theology...

NotMAGA Loc: Upstate NY - in a very red county

Not too long ago, the UMC finally decided a decades-old argument.
The denomination actually decided to split over liberal vs. conservative theology in re to same sex marriage and active homosexuality.

UMC churches have always belonged to the conference with which they affiliate. After this split, churches which disagreed with the decisions made were allowed to leave the UMC by paying the conference a set amount of money - different for each church depending on congregation size and value of the church's property.

An Alabama mega-church is suing. They don't want to pay.

https://www.al.com/news/2024/04/alabama-supreme-court-denies-united-methodist-request-to-dismiss-lawsuit-dothan-megachurch-says-it-owes-no-money.html

If they win, Im going to go out on a limb and predict this may eventually bankrupt the UMC because it will only be the beginning. ALL the churches that have already paid will be wanting their money back.

It going to be interesting.

Fwiw, I debated about putting this in the Faith... Section, but because of the reason for the split, and the courts becoming involved in this particular issue, I think Main fits.

Rose42

NotMAGA wrote:

Not too long ago, the UMC finally decided a decade... (show quote)

They are leaving over biblical vs non-biblical theology.

Its pretty sad that a church demands money for disaffiliation.

kemmer

Rose42 wrote:

They are leaving over biblical vs non-biblical theology.

Its pretty sad that a church demands money for disaffiliation.

In Fresno CA, the Episcopal bishop refused to go with the rest of the Church to ordain women and allow same sex weddings. He broke allegiance to the American Episcopal Chuch and allied himself with a backward Nigerian Episcopal bishop. He refused to vacate his cathedral, and it became a nasty court case which he lost.
There is a large Presbyterian church near me which left the American Presbyterian Church over ordaining gay ministers, and lost 75% of its congregants,

Rose42

kemmer wrote:

In Fresno CA, the Episcopal bishop refused to go with the rest of the Church to ordain women and allow same sex weddings. He broke allegiance to the American Episcopal Chuch and allied himself with a backward Nigerian Episcopal bishop. He refused to vacate his cathedral, and it became a nasty court case which he lost.
There is a large Presbyterian church near me which left the American Presbyterian Church over ordaining gay ministers, and lost 75% of its congregants,

If they don’t own the property and want to leave they do need to pay or leave the property.

NotMAGA Loc: Upstate NY - in a very red county

There is a whole long history about the UMC, which was formed through a merging of the Methodist Episcopal Church with the United Evangelical Brethren. The Book of Discipline (the denomination's bylaws, so to speak) had a few changes made to it, and the resulting language was what started all the trouble.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

NotMAGA wrote:

Not too long ago, the UMC finally decided a decade... (show quote)

It was the African countries conference members who strenuously objected to the liberal positions. US Conference members were more liberal in their outlook.

One should keep in mind, a pastor has the right to make decisions, on certain matters directly related to the performance of their duties. Such has been the case for enons of time. Further, if a church is displeased with a pastor, they only need wait until the next conference to find a new one.

NotMAGA Loc: Upstate NY - in a very red county

AuntiE wrote:

It was the African countries conference members who strenuously objected to the liberal positions. US Conference members were more liberal in their outlook.

One should keep in mind, a pastor has the right to make decisions, on certain matters directly related to the performance of their duties. Such has been the case for enons of time. Further, if a church is displeased with a pastor, they only need wait until the next conference to find a new one.

Yes, re the African churches being more socially conservative.
.
It's not as easy getting rid of a bad pastor in the UMW as many people think. And when I say "bad" I mean literally schizophrenic. 🙄🥺

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

NotMAGA wrote:

Yes, re the African churches being more socially conservative.
.
It's not as easy getting rid of a bad pastor in the UMW as many people think. And when I say "bad" I mean literally schizophrenic. 🙄🥺

Then that has changed. Having said that, it has been quite sometime since a UMC, I am aware of, wanted to rid themselves quickly.

NotMAGA Loc: Upstate NY - in a very red county

AuntiE wrote:

Then that has changed. Having said that, it has been quite sometime since a UMC, I am aware of, wanted to rid themselves quickly.

We once had one who was literally certifiably mentally ill. Pretty sure it was a case of the DS being annoyed with our Lay Leader and our congregation's requests for what they'd like in a pastor. This guy was pretty much a paranoid schizophrenic. Worst part was, we found out later the DS knew that, but put him in our church anyway. What a mess. Took months to go through a whole process with the new DS having meetings with our PPRC and this pastor... Finally after almost 3 or 4 months all agreed it was really best for all if he moved on. Don't know if he's still around anywhere or not.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

NotMAGA wrote:

We once had one who was literally certifiably ment... (show quote)

Up until five years ago, there was a UMC in Falls Church that 45% of the members were in one family and had been for over 80 years. They never worried about replacing a pastor as the screening was VERY rigorous!

NotMAGA Loc: Upstate NY - in a very red county

AuntiE wrote:

Up until five years ago, there was a UMC in Falls Church that 45% of the members were in one family and had been for over 80 years. They never worried about replacing a pastor as the screening was VERY rigorous!

Lol - I'll bet it was! 😁

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

NotMAGA wrote:

Lol - I'll bet it was! 😁

To give credit, they fully funded a free pre-k and kindergarten program and helped finance youth events for teens.

NotMAGA Loc: Upstate NY - in a very red county

AuntiE wrote:

To give credit, they fully funded a free pre-k and kindergarten program and helped finance youth events for teens.

♥️♥️♥️

Smedley_buzkill

Rose42 wrote:

They are leaving over biblical vs non-biblical theology.

Its pretty sad that a church demands money for disaffiliation.

When you consider that this church is listed as a 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization, it's understandable. While I make no claims to being a Christian, it seems that most mainstream churches are social clubs first and churches second. I have always found it ironic that so many people carry Bibles into a building where so much doctrine and dogma that is either not found in those Bibles or is antithetical to what is in them is proselytized.

Rose42

Smedley_buzk**l wrote:

When you consider that this church is listed as a 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization, it's understandable. While I make no claims to being a Christian, it seems that most mainstream churches are social clubs first and churches second. I have always found it ironic that so many people carry Bibles into a building where so much doctrine and dogma that is either not found in those Bibles or is antithetical to what is in them is proselytized.

I think you’re right about many churches being social clubs first.