Think about it (Page 13): I still can't believe you even posted this. I am still laughing my ass off. Although I believe your post is highly biased and propaganda just based on the...

VladimirPee

I still can't believe you even posted this. I am still laughing my ass off. Although I believe your post is highly biased and propaganda just based on the title here are the numbers THEY admit to

"The Economic Recovery Act was supposed to reduce revenues by $749 billion over five years. But this was quickly reversed with the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982. TEFRAthe largest tax increase in American historywas designed to raise $214.1 billion over five years"

So combining the 1981 Tax Cut and the partial roll back in 1982 the net is a 535 Billion dollar tax CUT.
Quickly reversed my ass. That's a partial roll back not a reversal

straightUp wrote:

I suspect you are referring to the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981, the big celebrity of Republican lore. But I'm not talking about just one bill, or the (promised) effects of just one bill across 8 years. I'm talking about ALL the tax bills that Reagan promoted and signed - with AND without the Republican fanfare and including the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982.
This is from the Mises Institute... http://mises.org/library/sad-legacy-ronald-reagan-0 which as you may already know, are the free-market advocates that socialists h**e.

Reagan came into office proposing to cut personal income and business taxes. The Economic Recovery Act was supposed to reduce revenues by $749 billion over five years. But this was quickly reversed with the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982. TEFRAthe largest tax increase in American historywas designed to raise $214.1 billion over five years, and took back many of the business tax savings enacted the year before. It also imposed withholding on interest and dividends, a provision later repealed over the president's objection."

... the largest tax increase in American history - signed by Ronald Reagan. Yeah, the right-wing propaganda machine keeps pretty quiet about that one. Instead they just tell you how great that first bill was and what it was "supposed" to do, as if it did. So I checked into this because of the obvious disagreement with the conservative opinion. FactCheck.org explains the how the shell game works, by comparing TEFRA to ACA.

Opponents of ACA use something called raw dollar measures, where inflation is not considered. So, they compare 2009 dollars to 1982 dollars as if they are equal, even though in 1982 an oz of gold was $376 and in 2009 you would need $972 to by that same oz. But if you go with raw dollars anyway you wind up with the ACA costing $76.8 billion making it the largest tax increase in history. Even so, using raw dollar measurements, Reagan's TEFRA STILL comes in as the 3rd largest in history, so it's still something the right-wing wants to keep quiet.

But if you consider inflation and go with something called "constant dollar measurement". The ACA actually drops to fourth place and Reagan's TEFRA actually comes in as the highest tax increase in history.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/biggest-tax-increase-in-history/

I suspect you are referring to the Economic Recove... (show quote)

America Only Loc: From the right hand of God

straightUp wrote:

That's my 24 year old daughter.

OH Christ...another democrap stuck on incest.

Hemiman Loc: Communist California

America Only wrote:

OH Christ...another democrap stuck on incest.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

VladimirPee

Well I am not in the business of defending liberals very often but I don't see anything wrong with this photo. I have 2 daughters and love when they want to be by my side.

America Only wrote:

OH Christ...another democrap stuck on incest.

straightUp Loc: California

DennisDee wrote:

One problem You are using a propaganda site for a source. I can tell just by the name of the link. Did the Reagan Presidency end in 1982? Where is the information for the Tax Reform Act of 1986 which was the most comprehensive tax overhaul in US History?

The Misus Institute is dedicated to free-market economics and deregulation and is as close as I can think of to being the diametric opposite to the progressive liberal. I didn't realize it's a "propaganda" site. Point is... you said Reagan didn't raise taxes and all I'm doing is pointing at the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982.

The Tax Reform Act of 1986? There's plenty of information on that just like there is on the TEFRA. It wasn't a major point in the to study of biggest increases or biggest cuts because it was designed to be revenue neutral. Reagan himself said he wouldn't sign it unless it was. That means that as a whole, taxes didn't go up or down, they stayed the same. For every dollar it cut in one place, it added a dollar somewhere else. The only thing that makes it significant is the restructuring. It basically cut the rates at the top and increased them at the bottom, then added a ton of corporate tax to make up the difference.

That's called wealth redistribution. ;)

DennisDee wrote:

br The Tax Hike of 1982 was a partial roll back o... (show quote)

When you go to the store and you make a left turn and then a right turn does that mean you never made that left turn? Look, I see where you are going with the "net result" and I'll get to that, but you're also deflecting. You said quite simply, Reagan did not raise taxes. I showed you the bill that he signed in 1982 to... raise taxes. Are you so caught up in being right that you just can't make that simple acknowledgment? You can't just say... "Well okay, he did raise taxes but he ALSO cut taxes..." and move on from there? You have to play that game and redefine what raising taxes means?

Wh**ever. I made my point.

DennisDee wrote:

Reagan is remembered for his tax cuts, owing to his signature Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981, which slashed the top marginal rate to 50 percent from 70 percent. And even with the later increases, he was a net tax-cutter

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-22/democrats-recall-reagan-s-tax-increases.html

This too is debatable... I mean I can see the debates happening. Keep in mind that we only touched on three acts signed by Reagan. There were many more, there was the the gasoline tax hike in 1982, the tax hike on the trucking industry, the Social Security tax hike ($165 billion) and the Deficit Reduction Act that actually increased taxes to raise $50 billion in revenue, which is interesting since he was supposed to be the champion of the idea that you can raise revenue by cutting taxes.

At the end of Reagan's second term, the U.S. Treasury (probably another propaganda site) said that the 1981 tax cut would have reduced revenues by $1.48 trillion by the end of fiscal 1989, but tax increases since 1982 will equal $1.5 trillion by 1989. That would make Reagan a net tax-hiker. I think those estimates include the impact of "bracket creep" a less than obvious trick for increasing taxes that rely on things like interest withholding that Reagan included in his 1986 Tax Reform Act, which lawmakers took out in 1985 despite Reagan's protest.

These debates are endless, each side employing new ways of slicing and dicing the facts. A common maneuver on the right is to limit the evidence to actual rate changes, while their opponents will point out that Reagan also cut out a LOT of deductions, which isn't reflected in the published rate but it DOES result in more taxes - This method is in fact being used to fund the ACA.

I don't propose we go down this rabbit hole. I simply don't have the interest in rehashing 20 years worth of rhetoric to try and prove something to someone who is only going to call it propaganda anyway. Was he a net tax-cutter? I don't really know. Maybe he was, which would be fine if he was also cut spending but he didn't, so what's the point?

straightUp Loc: California

DennisDee wrote:

Well I am not in the business of defending liberals very often but I don't see anything wrong with this photo. I have 2 daughters and love when they want to be by my side.

Thank you Dennis.

VladimirPee

Yes Reagan had a record of NET tax cuts over his 8 years. He was a net tax cutter. The rest is spin.

straightUp wrote:

This too is debatable... I mean I can see the deba... (show quote)

straightUp Loc: California

DennisDee wrote:

Yes Reagan had a record of NET tax cuts over his 8 years. He was a net tax cutter. The rest is spin.

Well, I know better than to argue with hive-minds. You believe what you want. It's not like it makes a big difference in my world ;)

For the record, I would LOVE to go back to the days when the right was controlled by people like Reagan. He was the first president I ever v**ed for. (The very next e******n I switched to the other side.)

VladimirPee

Its not a belief. Its a stone cold fact. Even your own numbers prove me right.

straightUp wrote:

Well, I know better than to argue with hive-minds. You believe what you want. It's not like it makes a big difference in my world ;)

straightUp Loc: California

DennisDee wrote:

Its not a belief. Its a stone cold fact. Even your own numbers prove me right.

LOL - Either you didn't read all of my post with all it's numbers or you are deeee-lusional. ;)

VladimirPee

Paragraph 2 of the Bloomberg article

Changing Course

Reagan is remembered for his tax cuts, owing to his signature Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981, which slashed the top marginal rate to 50 percent from 70 percent. And even with the later increases, he was a net tax-cutter

straightUp wrote:

LOL - Either you didn't read all of my post with all it's numbers or you are deeee-lusional. ;)

rumitoid

DennisDee wrote:

Paragraph 2 of the Bloomberg article

Changing Course

Reagan is remembered for his tax cuts, owing to his signature Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981, which slashed the top marginal rate to 50 percent from 70 percent. And even with the later increases, he was a net tax-cutter

DennisDee, your debate with Straight lost me but it seemed like you did a fair and balanced presentation of your side, which I must admit shocked the, er, heck out of me. Love to see more of this actual debating here, no matter what side may win or gain points. Fun!

VladimirPee

rumitoid wrote:

DennisDee, your debate with Straight lost me but it seemed like you did a fair and balanced presentation of your side, which I must admit shocked the, er, heck out of me. Love to see more of this actual debating here, no matter what side may win or gain points. Fun!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Anigav6969

DennisDee wrote:

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Yes, great job on both sides.....you guys really know your stuff when it comes to this subject....thanks for the good read

straightUp Loc: California

Anigav6969 wrote:

Yes, great job on both sides.....you guys really know your stuff when it comes to this subject....thanks for the good read

Thanks... and my hat to Dennis, he actually did make me work a little bit and despite our occasional snips at each other, he pretty much stuck to the argument.