PaulPisces Loc: San Francisco

From what I see in this kid, he's come out incredibly well.
Be sure to watch until the end!

http://www.upworthy.com/this-kid-thought-his-parents-were-breaking-up-after-20-years-but-he-was-so-wrong-5

Loki Loc: Georgia

Perhaps he has, Paul. But bear in mind he was "preaching to the choir" so to speak. I still feel that a boy needs a positive heterosexual male role model. This is not to disparage his parents, but there are some things that a guy just needs to talk to another guy about. I can even see where having lesbian parents might be an advantage, in some ways to a heterosexual boy. I still think that a normal heterosexual family is the best and most nurturing environment for younger children. When they get older they can make their own choices.No matter how hard they try, I do not think even the most well-intentioned gay couple can help but influence a younger child toward adopting a homosexual lifestyle, however inadvertantly. You also need to realize that open homosexuality is not well accepted in most places, and it is not terribly fair to the child who ends up as a a pawn in a socio-sexual statement being made by the parents. San Francisco, where you live, is an anomaly, not exactly mainstream America, and from what I understand, even SF is not as tolerant as some would have us believe.
Hope you had a nice Christmas.

PaulPisces Loc: San Francisco

Thanks for your thoughtful reply Loki.
All I wanted to do in this post was share what is clearly a well-adjusted kid who was raised by two moms.

Perhaps you are right about the ideal family, perhaps not. I'm pretty certain there are a lot of successful people raised by their mother + grandmother, and "ideal families" are sometimes not even possible. Good, loving parents are always significantly better than bad, abusive parents, no matter the g****r combinations. I have a theory that, since having children is not the easiest thing for same-sex parents, they have a kind of commitment to parenting that isn't always there in some families. An "accidental" pregnancy is pretty rare.

As to influencing their offspring's orientation, my personal experience does not support your theory. I know many same-sex couples (of both g****rs) who have raised perfectly happy and well-adjusted heterosexual kids. And my parents' definitive heterosexuality certainly didn't sway me.

Christmas was pretty wonderful, with my small group of family and friends. I hope yours was as well. Here's my brother's dog trying to nab a place at the table. I think he knew we were having porchetta (also depicted here)
:)

Loki Loc: Georgia

While having children is not the easiest thing for same sex couples, it can be quite trying for heterosexual couples at times. There are any number of posters on here who, regardless of sexual proclivities, I am fairly certain would qualify as "butthole babies." I do believe these people were either hatched, or s**t. Normal birth does not appear to have occurred.

no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

Paul, I am sure that you will take what I am going to say as h**e speech even though it was not meant to be, but I think it needs to be said anyhow.
That young man absolutely needs to spend time with heterosexual men, particularly if he is not same sex attracted. there is no way he is going to learn how heterosexual men relate to women (and I do not mean the few men who are pigs but the rest of us) and watch the relationships of married heterosexual couples who love each other. Same sex parents are not dealing with the difference between male and female brains, which are real and documentable. He needs to learn about the heterosexual relationships and behavior if he wants to find the right woman and marry and have kids. Living in a same sex household, surrounded by other same sex households will not do it.
In addition to that, male body language , movement, eye contact, and particularly the movement of hands during conversation is decidedly different from female gestures. During this video his hand and body movements and language were more feminine than masculine. Living around women will not help him understand the culture established "maleness" that, in addition to the biological differences make up the person. Unless he is same sex attracted, he is going to find it hard to date girls because they will not read him as "male" no matter what you might wish to believe to the contrary. He has enough to overcome from living with two same sex attracted women who probably do not find men, or the male body desirable or sexually attractive, without adding other burdens to the learning process of being male, let alone becoming "a man". Again, please understand that my comments are NOT meant as h**e speech, no matter how they appear to you.
Thank you.

PaulPisces Loc: San Francisco

NPP - I don't see your post as h**e speech at all. I can't recall when I've ever thought your posts were h**eful. I do think, however, that you are misguided and committed to ideas about masculinity that are fast becoming outdated (and I believe it is a completely separate thing from sexual orientation.) You may lament this, but some see no problem with it. Whichever one's viewpoint, it's a reality that I think cannot be reversed.

And you might be surprised to find I agree that the kid needs to be exposed to heterosexual men, though for different reasons that you enumerate. I think kids need to be exposed to a broad range of different kinds of people: racial differences, religious differences, economic and philosophical differences, people of different sexual orientation - the list is endless. Because that's how the world is made up, and if he doesn't learn how to relate to people different than he is then he's going to have a really hard time as an adult. The important thing is that he get guidance to understand what in people is good and useful and what is bad and damaging. I think good parents, of wh**ever g****r, are the best source of this guidance, but we have to admit that in our culture kids get information from many more sources than we did as kids. So wh**ever the parent combination, the information and influence is available.

no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

It is difficult enough to hold civilized conversations about such serious topics, but impossible if either one of us perceives the other is intentionally saying h**eful things.
As far as the 15 year old I think that having contact with heterosexual married couples goes way beyond the concept of meeting all kind of people because the world is full of different folk. The difference between a same sex couple and an opposite sex couple is far greater than who puts which tab where. The male brain, whether heterosexual or homosexual, or even t*********r, is different than the female brain in its development from birth, different things, and actions are processed in different parts of the brain for each sex. If the only intimate relationships he is familiar with are same sex, he will not be aware of the accommodations required for a heterosexual loving relationship and might never be able to have such a fulfilling relationship.
It seems to me from what I have read and observed, L***Q concepts are that g*****ls indicate what sex you are, which doesn't matter because that is just an assignment at birth. G****r is any combination of interpretations of behavior that you wish it to be, so there are at least fifty g****rs, at least according to g****r theory. One can be male thinking that you are female, or the other way around. According to the theory if you are male thinking you are female and you are attracted to men you are not homosexual because you are a female in a male body. The goal is that all people be g****r neutral. Part of that includes the concept that there is no "maleness" or "femaleness" and a major effort is being made to obliterate all behavioral differences, therefore the concept of masculine and feminine are outdated. Most heterosexuals believe that is absurd. Even male dogs have to learn from other male dogs in a pack what it is to be male and how males are to behave. When males of a species do not learn that, chaos occurs, such as in rouge male elephants , who have not learned to be truly masculine. To say that men should not learn what it is to be men while they are still boys, and therefore define their masculinity is against the natural concept of learned mammalian behavior, but that sounds as if it is what you mean by the definition of masculinity is changing, and becoming androgynous. In my opinion that ultimately is damaging to a society, and should be discouraged, not encouraged. the more men are encouraged to act like women, the less they will be able to take the responsibility of being men seriously. I don't think that is the way we should be going, but, the war on boys is in full swing, and masculinity is on the way out. If I am reading you right, you believe that will be good for society, but perhaps i am misreading what you said. Would you please clarify that point? thank you.