One Political Plaza - Home of politics
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main
Eating Crow
Page <<first <prev 3 of 3
Apr 1, 2023 16:03:27   #
dwp66
 
SeaLass wrote:
"Grand Jury":

1) A legal entity whose sole job is to listen to biased presentations in order to decide if there is enough evidence to suggest the possibility that anyone committed a crime more serious than jaywalking.

2) A means of legal accusation only slightly less conclusive than the "Show me the man, I'll show you the crime" approach.


Having actually served on one, I can assure you that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Reply
Apr 1, 2023 17:12:17   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
dwp66 wrote:
Having actually served on one, I can assure you that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.
Serving on one grand jury doesn't make you an expert.

The Grand Jury: The Medieval and the Modern
By Ken Mondschein

Protests erupted anew across the United States after a grand jury in Louisville, Kentucky refused to hand down criminal indictments for the k*****g of Breonna Taylor by three white police officers. Black L***s M****r advocates rightfully see this as a miscarriage of justice, but prosecutors were adamant: As the police were executing a properly-issued search warrant—never mind that it was a no-knock raid on an innocent woman’s apartment in the middle of the night, in the context of a systemically r****t society that unequally polices people of color—what they did, however horrific and tragic, was not a crime. Much as in the 2014 k*****gs of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, and Tamir Rice, where grand juries refused to hand down indictments, the Louisville grand jury, at prosecutors’ direction, found that the police officers, as agents of the state, were acting within the law.

This, of course, begs the question: What is a grand jury, and how did this institution—originally designed as a check to rampant, unjust state power—come under the d******n of prosecutors and police?

Though a grand jury is today unique to the American legal system, it is ultimately derived from medieval English law. In fact, it retains the same function that it did in medieval law: To report indictable offenses to those in charge of prosecuting them. (See my Public Medievalist piece here, on the office of sheriff as another aspect of “Anglo-American” law, and my previous Medievalists.net piece for more history and a suggestion on how elected sheriffs might be a solution to unequal law enforcement.) It is called a grand jury, incidentally, since it has more members than the petit trial jury of 12 people.

The grand jury’s origins date back to Henry II’s 1166 Assize of Claredon, which specified that the notables of each shire had to testify to the king’s iterant magistrates under oath (juré) as to any crimes committed in the neighborhood since their last visit. By the fourteenth century, they assembled at the four-times annual quarter sessions and periodic assizes where the king’s magistrates would hold court. Interestingly, there was no property qualification at the local (borough) level, making them more democratic than most medieval legal institutions—though there was a property qualification at the shire level.

The jury would receive bills of indictment from the Crown; if they thought there was sufficient evidence for a trial, they would write “true bill”; otherwise, they would write ignoramus (“we don’t know”). This could act as a check on the tyrannical use of state power: In July 1681, Anthony Ashley Cooper, the Earl of Shaftesbury, was arrested on clearly trumped-up charges of treason. He was freed the following February when the grand jury refused to indict him.

The grand jury lost much of its power in the United Kingdom in the nineteenth century, and was eliminated entirely in 1933. However, in the United States, where the Fifth Amendment enshrined it in law, the grand jury continues its original medieval function—albeit in a much-changed form. Anyone in the early Republic could bring a criminal or civil matter to a grand jury, including charges of public corruption or a criminal complaint. Public prosecutors came into use in the late nineteenth century, and the grand jury’s role increasingly became to rule whether what the evidence the prosecutor had introduced constituted probable cause to hold the accused over for trial. They also decreased in importance at the state and local level: Today, only 22 of the 50 states (including Kentucky) require the use of a grand jury; the rest have replaced it with a preliminary hearing before a judge. However, the Federal government is still required by the Fifth Amendment to use grand juries in most matters.

Significantly, the grand jury’s broad and independent investigatory role has not disappeared—but it has become subverted to the interests of prosecutors. Grand juries are composed of ordinary citizens not trained in law or even necessarily representative of their communities, and can be easily led. As an anonymous defense attorney in Rochester, New York, was famously quoted as saying in 1979, a prosecutor can even get a grand jury to “indict a ham sandwich.” Yet, grand juries still have broad subpoena power to compel witnesses’ testimony—in fact, the Supreme Court ruled in 1974’s United States vs. Nixon that they can even compel a sitting president to testify. Also, the person under investigation has no right to an attorney or to cross-examine witnesses, and prosecutors are under no compulsion to present any evidence that favors exoneration. Grand juries thus can be—and are—used for intimidation purposes, as they were against WikiLeaks whistleblowers, in the impeachment proceedings against Bill Clinton, and various Trump-era investigations. There have thus been numerous calls for reform.

What is needed in the current situation is an old-fashioned “runaway grand jury” that revolts against prosecutorial control and retakes its original medieval function. The most famous case of this was the New York jury that complained in 1935 that prosecutors were not properly investigating mobster Dutch Schultz. Their activism resulted in future governor and p**********l candidate Thomas E. Dewey being appointed as an independent prosecutor. More recently, runaway grand juries investigated corrupt officials in Texas and California. It’s not unthinkable that a similar incident might happen as a consequence of Black L***s M****r.

Ken Mondschein is a history professor at UMass-Mt. Ida College, Anna Maria College, and Boston University.

Reply
Apr 1, 2023 18:40:38   #
dwp66
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Serving on one grand jury doesn't make you an expert.

The Grand Jury: The Medieval and the Modern
By Ken Mondschein

Protests erupted anew across the United States after a grand jury in Louisville, Kentucky refused to hand down criminal indictments for the k*****g of Breonna Taylor by three white police officers. Black L***s M****r advocates rightfully see this as a miscarriage of justice, but prosecutors were adamant: As the police were executing a properly-issued search warrant—never mind that it was a no-knock raid on an innocent woman’s apartment in the middle of the night, in the context of a systemically r****t society that unequally polices people of color—what they did, however horrific and tragic, was not a crime. Much as in the 2014 k*****gs of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, and Tamir Rice, where grand juries refused to hand down indictments, the Louisville grand jury, at prosecutors’ direction, found that the police officers, as agents of the state, were acting within the law.

This, of course, begs the question: What is a grand jury, and how did this institution—originally designed as a check to rampant, unjust state power—come under the d******n of prosecutors and police?

Though a grand jury is today unique to the American legal system, it is ultimately derived from medieval English law. In fact, it retains the same function that it did in medieval law: To report indictable offenses to those in charge of prosecuting them. (See my Public Medievalist piece here, on the office of sheriff as another aspect of “Anglo-American” law, and my previous Medievalists.net piece for more history and a suggestion on how elected sheriffs might be a solution to unequal law enforcement.) It is called a grand jury, incidentally, since it has more members than the petit trial jury of 12 people.

The grand jury’s origins date back to Henry II’s 1166 Assize of Claredon, which specified that the notables of each shire had to testify to the king’s iterant magistrates under oath (juré) as to any crimes committed in the neighborhood since their last visit. By the fourteenth century, they assembled at the four-times annual quarter sessions and periodic assizes where the king’s magistrates would hold court. Interestingly, there was no property qualification at the local (borough) level, making them more democratic than most medieval legal institutions—though there was a property qualification at the shire level.

The jury would receive bills of indictment from the Crown; if they thought there was sufficient evidence for a trial, they would write “true bill”; otherwise, they would write ignoramus (“we don’t know”). This could act as a check on the tyrannical use of state power: In July 1681, Anthony Ashley Cooper, the Earl of Shaftesbury, was arrested on clearly trumped-up charges of treason. He was freed the following February when the grand jury refused to indict him.

The grand jury lost much of its power in the United Kingdom in the nineteenth century, and was eliminated entirely in 1933. However, in the United States, where the Fifth Amendment enshrined it in law, the grand jury continues its original medieval function—albeit in a much-changed form. Anyone in the early Republic could bring a criminal or civil matter to a grand jury, including charges of public corruption or a criminal complaint. Public prosecutors came into use in the late nineteenth century, and the grand jury’s role increasingly became to rule whether what the evidence the prosecutor had introduced constituted probable cause to hold the accused over for trial. They also decreased in importance at the state and local level: Today, only 22 of the 50 states (including Kentucky) require the use of a grand jury; the rest have replaced it with a preliminary hearing before a judge. However, the Federal government is still required by the Fifth Amendment to use grand juries in most matters.

Significantly, the grand jury’s broad and independent investigatory role has not disappeared—but it has become subverted to the interests of prosecutors. Grand juries are composed of ordinary citizens not trained in law or even necessarily representative of their communities, and can be easily led. As an anonymous defense attorney in Rochester, New York, was famously quoted as saying in 1979, a prosecutor can even get a grand jury to “indict a ham sandwich.” Yet, grand juries still have broad subpoena power to compel witnesses’ testimony—in fact, the Supreme Court ruled in 1974’s United States vs. Nixon that they can even compel a sitting president to testify. Also, the person under investigation has no right to an attorney or to cross-examine witnesses, and prosecutors are under no compulsion to present any evidence that favors exoneration. Grand juries thus can be—and are—used for intimidation purposes, as they were against WikiLeaks whistleblowers, in the impeachment proceedings against Bill Clinton, and various Trump-era investigations. There have thus been numerous calls for reform.

What is needed in the current situation is an old-fashioned “runaway grand jury” that revolts against prosecutorial control and retakes its original medieval function. The most famous case of this was the New York jury that complained in 1935 that prosecutors were not properly investigating mobster Dutch Schultz. Their activism resulted in future governor and p**********l candidate Thomas E. Dewey being appointed as an independent prosecutor. More recently, runaway grand juries investigated corrupt officials in Texas and California. It’s not unthinkable that a similar incident might happen as a consequence of Black L***s M****r.

Ken Mondschein is a history professor at UMass-Mt. Ida College, Anna Maria College, and Boston University.
Serving on one grand jury doesn't make you an expe... (show quote)


Am I supposed to be impressed with your cut & paste? I actually don't need you to "educate" me on Grand Juries, really could not care less what your opinion is, and despise long, rambling articles posted to make someone look knowledgeable on a subject.

Finally, I never said I was an "expert" - only that I had served on one. Been there, done that, which is more than most people can claim. What about you?

Reply
 
 
Apr 2, 2023 21:55:18   #
SeaLass Loc: Western Soviet Socialist Republics
 
dwp66 wrote:
Having actually served on one, I can assure you that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.


Having also served on grand juries, I beg to differ based on experience. Of course that is not to say all grand juries are run the same way.

Reply
Apr 4, 2023 07:44:39   #
Ricktloml
 
EmilyD wrote:
👍👍👍👍👍

And you know that if this fails again, they will tell everyone and their brothers that it was something Trump did.

What I want to know is how is it Trump's fault that the Biden family is laundering money from the Chinese right in front of our noses, and nothing is being done about it? I'd like to know how they're going to blame Trump for that if they are ever held accountable for it - because that is how they try to get out of their crimes?




You know, l*****t blame Trump for everything that they don't like while he was president...but now they want to blame Trump for everything they don't like even though Gestapo Joe is sitting in the White House. The left still wants to blame Trump for all of the disastrous outcomes Gestapo Joe's policies have caused...I would say the left wants to make sure that Gestapo Joe gets the credit for beneficial policies...except there haven't been any policies that benefit America...ALL of Gestapo Joe's policies benefit C*******t China which completely OWNS Gestapo Joe/International Biden Crime Family.

Reply
Apr 5, 2023 19:43:08   #
dwp66
 
SeaLass wrote:
Having also served on grand juries, I beg to differ based on experience. Of course that is not to say all grand juries are run the same way.


Really? What do you "beg to differ" on? Most Grand Juries have essentially the same rules and procedures, as far as I know.

Reply
Apr 5, 2023 19:48:41   #
dwp66
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Well written...
I like your style


Thanks.

I do appreciate not only your total lack of ad hominem remarks, Canuckus, but also the positive comments.

Also, your handle is pretty cool - I envy of your creativity.

Reply
 
 
Apr 5, 2023 20:45:45   #
SeaLass Loc: Western Soviet Socialist Republics
 
dwp66 wrote:
Really? What do you "beg to differ" on? Most Grand Juries have essentially the same rules and procedures, as far as I know.


That I just might know what I'm talking about to the same degree as you.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 3 of 3
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main
OnePoliticalPlaza.com - Forum
Copyright 2012-2024 IDF International Technologies, Inc.