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Nov 4, 2014 11:46:38   #
Don G. Dinsdale Loc: El Cajon, CA (San Diego County)
 
Workinman wrote:
Dr. Bens take on Health Care:



Ben Carson on Health Care



ObamaCare is the worst thing since s***ery
Q: Let me just raise this issue about ObamaCare, because I want to come back to that. One of the issues is that for conservatives, this has been such a huge issue, even though the law's been passed and upheld by the court, they still argue, "No, there's a basis to really try to make it better, to replace it, to get rid of it." And then you had Dr. Ben Carson; this is what he said on Friday:

(VIDEO) BEN CARSON: I have to tell you, ObamaCare is really, I think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since s***ery. And it is in a way, it is s***ery in a way.(END VIDEO)

Sen. ROB PORTMAN: Well, he's a doctor who feels passionately about this issue, obviously.
Source: Meet the Press 2013 interviews: 2014 p**********l hopefuls , Oct 13, 2013

Health savings account from birth; teach poor responsibility
Carson's idea for health-care reform is Washingtonian. Instead of the technocratic behemoth of Obamacare, empower the individual. "When a person is born, give him a birth certificate, an electronic medical record, and a health-savings account to which money can be contributed--pretax--from the time you're born till the time you die. If you die, you can pass it on to your family members . . . and there's nobody talking about death panels."

The beauty of Carson's argument exceeds its simplicity, particularly as even economist Paul Krugman now concedes that something like death panels are inevitable if we stay on our current path. Taxpayers, the rich, or charities can contribute extra money to the accounts of the poor (with everyone's account seeded at birth), but at the same time, Carson says, the poor will "have some control over their own health care. And very quickly they're going to learn how to be responsible."
Source: 2013 Conservative Political Action Conf. in National Review , Feb 13, 2013

Two-tiered system ok as long as care is adequate
Our 1st child, Murray, was born in Australia. The health-care system in Australia provides substantial benefits for its citizens, and when a baby is born, the family receives a "baby bonus." Although it was a two-tiered system, I did not witness much resentment by those receiving their basic care free of charge against those who could afford private insurance. There may be some substantial lessons that we can learn from such a system.

Everyone has different needs and we do not have to have a one-size-fits-all system. Because one person drives a Chevrolet and another drives a Mercedes, it doesn't automatically mean that the Chevrolet driver is deprived or needs some supplement. The fact is, he can get to the same place as a Mercedes driver with perhaps slightly less comfort. People have different medical needs and some can afford the Chevrolet plan while others can afford the Mercedes plan. We should leave it at that and not try to micromanage people's lives as long as the care is adequate
Source: America the Beautiful, by Ben Carson, p.143-144 , Jan 24, 2012

Saudi Arabian solution: stiff penalties for medical fraud
Insurance companies would almost certainly object that some unscrupulous doctors would simply submit "evidence" that they had done two appendectomies instead of one.

There are very few physicians who would engage in fraud, but there certainly are some. However, the solution for dealing with those few is not to create a gigantic and expensive bureaucracy, but rather to apply what I term the "Saudi Arabian solution." Why don't people steal very often in Saudi Arabia? Because the punishment is amputation of one or more fingers. I would not advocate chopping off people's limbs, but there would be some very stiff penalties for this kind of fraud, such as loss of one's medical license for life, no less than 10 years in prison, and a loss of all of one's personal possessions. Not only would this be a gigantic deterrent to fraud, but to protect themselves every physician in practice would check every single bill quite thoroughly before submitting it, which would not be that difficult to do and document.
Source: America the Beautiful, by Ben Carson, p.145-146 , Jan 24, 2012

Regulate insurance companies as non-profit services
Today, insurance companies call the shots on what they want to pay, to whom, and when. Consequently, even busy doctors operate with a very slim profit of margin.

This is an ideal place for the intervention of government regulators who, with the help of medical professionals, could establish fair and consistent remuneration. To accomplish this, essentially all of the insurance companies would have to become non-profit service organizations with standardized, regulated profit margins.

This is not the paradigm that I see for all businesses, [but] is uniquely appropriate for the health-insurance industry, which deals with people's lives and quality of existence. That may sound radical, but is it as radical as allowing a company to increase its profits by denying care to sick individuals? In the long run this would also be good for the insurance companies, who could then concentrate on providing good service, rather than focusing on undercutting their competitors and increasing their profit margin.
Source: America the Beautiful, by Ben Carson, p.147-148 , Jan 24, 2012

Government responsibility for catastrophic coverage
There was a time when premature babies or babies with significant birth defects simply died, which cost the insurance company very little. Now, however, thanks to developments in medical technology, we're able to put such babies in incubators and treat them, usually saving their lives--but then we hand the insurance company a bill for $1 million. This kind of scenario, repeated on a regular basis, drove insurance companies to drastically increase their premiums.

One solution would be to remove from the insurance companies the responsibility for catastrophic health-care coverage, making it a government responsibility [like FEMA insures against hurricanes]. Clearly, if the health-care insurance companies did not have to cover catastrophic health care, it would be relatively easy by analyzing actuarial tables to determine how much money they are likely to be liable for each year. With this information at our disposal, health insurance companies could be regulated just as utilities are regulated.
Source: America the Beautiful, by Ben Carson, p.149-150 , Jan 24, 2012

Let paralyzed quadriplegics choose to die if they wish it
We are facing a time when we have to be pragmatic, while at the same time exercising compassion.

I remember a case of a prominent individual who had been in an automobile accident and was rendered a C-1 quadriplegic, which means not only was he paralyzed from the neck down, but he could not breathe without assistance. We could have made the decision to keep him alive at all costs, but through a unique system of communication that we were able to work out with him, he indicated that he wanted to die. After much debate, we yielded to his wishes and withdrew ventilator support. In the long run, I think our course of action was both compassionate and pragmatic. If we integrate compassion and logic into our decision-making processes, I am convinced that we will deal with newly emerging ethical dilemmas appropriately.
Source: America the Beautiful, by Ben Carson, p.151 , Jan 24, 2012

Suffered research cancer injection and prostate cancer
One day in the lab years ago, in the process of injecting cancer into a rabbit's brain, my hand slipped & I accidentally inoculated my own finger with the VX2 carcinoma. Within days, modules began to form on that finger, and another lesion began growing in my throat.

I happened to be reading "Back to Eden" about natural healing remedies and the medicinal properties of red clover tea. VX2 was a xenograph, from another species, so my own i****e s****m would attack it, so anything that boosted my natural i****e s****m might have been enough to do the job.

In the summer of 2002, I had my PSAs checked. I had prostate cancer; a very malignant and aggressive form. The various medical options were laid out; what caught my attention were glycol-proteins. Within a week my symptoms were completely resolved. But urologist [recommended immediate] surgery anyway, [which I did]. It turned out that the cancer was within one millimeter of metastasizing. If we had waited it would have been too late.
Source: Take the Risk, by Ben Carson, p.164-172 , Dec 25, 2007
Dr. Bens take on Health Care: br br br br Ben C... (show quote)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I love it...

More answers and better ideas, now this what this OPP is for, I think???

Anyway, better and better ideas...

Thanks... Don D. :thumbup: :wink: :D

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 11:53:17   #
Brian Devon
 
Don G. Dinsdale wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I love it...

More answers and better ideas, now this what this OPP is for, I think???

Anyway, better and better ideas...

Thanks... Don D. :thumbup: :wink: :D





***********
Ben Carson may win the presidency......of the local country club. He will never win the presidency of the United States.

This nation only elects presidents who have previously held high political office or else they were generals in winning wars.

No exceptions.

A Carson candidacy will only remain a bad joke....unless he is first elected Governor, or U.S. Senator from Maryland. To do that he would actually have to run for those offices.

Giving speeches and writing books may make him wealthier but they are hardly the path to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 11:56:54   #
Workinman Loc: Bayou Pigeon
 
Brian Devon wrote:
***********
Ben Carson may win the presidency......of the local country club. He will never win the presidency of the United States.

This nation only elects presidents who have previously held high political office or else they were generals in winning wars.

No exceptions.

A Carson candidacy will only remain a bad joke....unless he is first elected Governor, or U.S. Senator from Maryland. To do that he would actually have to run for those offices.

Giving speeches and writing books may make him wealthier but they are hardly the path to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
*********** br Ben Carson may win the presidency..... (show quote)





So he needs to do what Obama did...steal the title of Senator and do absolutely nothing...that will make him more qualified.....What a joke.. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Reply
 
 
Nov 4, 2014 11:57:20   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
Brian Devon wrote:
***********
Ben Carson may win the presidency......of the local country club. He will never win the presidency of the United States.

This nation only elects presidents who have previously held high political office or else they were generals in winning wars.

No exceptions.

A Carson candidacy will only remain a bad joke....unless he is first elected Governor, or U.S. Senator from Maryland. To do that he would actually have to run for those offices.

Giving speeches and writing books may make him wealthier but they are hardly the path to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
*********** br Ben Carson may win the presidency..... (show quote)


I wonder if you've ever heard of Barack Obama.

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 12:05:03   #
Rufus Loc: Deep South
 
Brian Devon wrote:
***********
Ben Carson may win the presidency......of the local country club. He will never win the presidency of the United States.

This nation only elects presidents who have previously held high political office or else they were generals in winning wars.

No exceptions.

A Carson candidacy will only remain a bad joke....unless he is first elected Governor, or U.S. Senator from Maryland. To do that he would actually have to run for those offices.

Giving speeches and writing books may make him wealthier but they are hardly the path to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
*********** br Ben Carson may win the presidency..... (show quote)


If a community organizer with f**e credentials can do it, why not a Dr. who can verify his past and has actually accomplished worthwhile things in life?

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 12:07:10   #
lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas
 
The idea of "socialized" medicine is a term coined by the detractors of the ACA, to attach the dreaded SOCIALISM stigma to it. NATIONAL is not SOCIALISM, other wise the National guard would be a socialist institution as well. In this context a National health care system would be no different than anything else that was - National. For some reason, certain persons like to attach "SOCIALISM" to anything that requires everyone to contribute to everyone's welfare - including their own - which would necessarily have to include National defense as well, but they don't complain about that.

We cannot pick and choose which parts of ALL persons wellbeing we would like to contribute to - as we ourselves are included in the "ALL" in question. If it is appropriate for all Americans to contribute treasure to National defense, it makes sense for all Americans to contribute to National HEALTH defense as well. There is no difference. We are not given a choice when Federal funds are used to provide medical care to foreigners, 100's of billions of dollars worth, but we object to Federal funds being used for Americans medical care? What sense does that make?

We pay into the Social Security trust fund, by law. We pay into Medicare, by law. We pay taxes, by law. We must purchase auto insurance, in most States, to legally operate motor vehicles, by law. So what would be the difference to everyone paying into a National Health Care System? None. There will always be folks who don't like the laws that are made, but if the laws are designed to promote the wellbeing of the majority of Americans, then it is Constitutional. That's what the Constitution guarantees. Requiring EVERYBODY to contribute to their OWN wellbeing, in wh**ever manner decided upon, is consistent with ALL political ideologies. A National Health Care system would provide accountability for the heath care providers, AS WELL AS those receiving care. That is NOT socialism, that is good management and therefore - good governance.

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 13:05:51   #
Brian Devon
 
lpnmajor wrote:
The idea of "socialized" medicine is a term coined by the detractors of the ACA, to attach the dreaded SOCIALISM stigma to it. NATIONAL is not SOCIALISM, other wise the National guard would be a socialist institution as well. In this context a National health care system would be no different than anything else that was - National. For some reason, certain persons like to attach "SOCIALISM" to anything that requires everyone to contribute to everyone's welfare - including their own - which would necessarily have to include National defense as well, but they don't complain about that.

We cannot pick and choose which parts of ALL persons wellbeing we would like to contribute to - as we ourselves are included in the "ALL" in question. If it is appropriate for all Americans to contribute treasure to National defense, it makes sense for all Americans to contribute to National HEALTH defense as well. There is no difference. We are not given a choice when Federal funds are used to provide medical care to foreigners, 100's of billions of dollars worth, but we object to Federal funds being used for Americans medical care? What sense does that make?

We pay into the Social Security trust fund, by law. We pay into Medicare, by law. We pay taxes, by law. We must purchase auto insurance, in most States, to legally operate motor vehicles, by law. So what would be the difference to everyone paying into a National Health Care System? None. There will always be folks who don't like the laws that are made, but if the laws are designed to promote the wellbeing of the majority of Americans, then it is Constitutional. That's what the Constitution guarantees. Requiring EVERYBODY to contribute to their OWN wellbeing, in wh**ever manner decided upon, is consistent with ALL political ideologies. A National Health Care system would provide accountability for the heath care providers, AS WELL AS those receiving care. That is NOT socialism, that is good management and therefore - good governance.
The idea of "socialized" medicine is a t... (show quote)




************

Lpn-major,

People can label National Health Care, however they desire. The important thing is that we establish it for ourselves and our descendents.

I am not a c*******t. I don't believe government should own the means of production. I was not a fan of the USSR and its 5 year plans.

However, I am not afraid of the word socialism, and like Senator Bernie Sanders, I do not flee into the crypt should someone try to intimidate me by equivocating socialism and c*******m.

Wh**ever you want to call them, there are certain collectively used entities that make life in this nation worth living.

Things like:

Public libraries
Public elementary schools
Public high schools
Public community colleges
Public state colleges and universities.
Public roads.
Public t***sit
National Parks and Seashore areas
State Parks
City Parks

AND PUBLIC NATIONAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL CITIZENS!

Reply
 
 
Nov 4, 2014 13:08:51   #
Rufus Loc: Deep South
 
Brian Devon wrote:
*************
People can label National Health Care, however they desire. The important thing is that we establish it for ourselves and our descendents.

I am not a c*******t. I don't believe government should own the means of production. I was not a fan of the USSR and its 5 year plans.

However, I am not afraid of the word socialism, and like Senator Bernie Sanders, I do not flee into the crypt should someone try to intimidate me by equivocating socialism and c*******m.

Wh**ever you want to call them, there are certain collectively used entities that make life in this nations worth living.

Things like:

Public libraries
Public elementary schools
Public high schools
Public community colleges
Public state colleges and universities.
Public roads.
Public t***sit

AND PUBLIC NATIONAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL CITIZENS!
************* br People can label National Health ... (show quote)


The libraries, roads and t***sits are still good. Those three allow us choices.

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 14:38:05   #
Don G. Dinsdale Loc: El Cajon, CA (San Diego County)
 
Brian Devon wrote:
************

Lpn-major,

People can label National Health Care, however they desire. The important thing is that we establish it for ourselves and our descendents.

I am not a c*******t. I don't believe government should own the means of production. I was not a fan of the USSR and its 5 year plans.

However, I am not afraid of the word socialism, and like Senator Bernie Sanders, I do not flee into the crypt should someone try to intimidate me by equivocating socialism and c*******m.

Wh**ever you want to call them, there are certain collectively used entities that make life in this nation worth living.

Things like:

Public libraries
Public elementary schools
Public high schools
Public community colleges
Public state colleges and universities.
Public roads.
Public t***sit
National Parks and Seashore areas
State Parks
City Parks

AND PUBLIC NATIONAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL CITIZENS!
************ br br Lpn-major, br br People can l... (show quote)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For the sake of argument, let say you and the 50% like you out in America really want ACA... Why not get one that works: ie... Canada, Romneycare, they works... Doesn't mean Romney will be President, just use that model, call it Americancare... Obamacare isn't working as advertised, you can't get around it... Don D.

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 15:32:03   #
Brian Devon
 
Don G. Dinsdale wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For the sake of argument, let say you and the 50% like you out in America really want ACA... Why not get one that works: ie... Canada, Romneycare, they works... Doesn't mean Romney will be President, just use that model, call it Americancare... Obamacare isn't working as advertised, you can't get around it... Don D.




**************
In this country you can't eat the apple in one bite. We could not move straight into straight single payer national health care. Too many entrenched interests blocking the door---AMA, Big Pharma, K St. Lobbyists, Congressman beholden to campaign donors.

The journey to socialized medicine requires multiple steps before it can be achieved. President Obama has sheperded the nation through the first shaky steps of the process. It will probably take at least one more Democratic president to get there.

This nation was not ready to go straight to a Canadian, British, Scandanavian, or Israeli template.

Patience, patience.....it will happen. It's not a question of if, its a question of when.

A raising of the national consciousness is an extended process. One day Americans will view health care as a right, not a privilege. Just like the other first world developed nations.

We are getting there.....one step at a time.

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 15:40:31   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Don G. Dinsdale wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For the sake of argument, let say you and the 50% like you out in America really want ACA... Why not get one that works: ie... Canada, Romneycare, they works... Doesn't mean Romney will be President, just use that model, call it Americancare... Obamacare isn't working as advertised, you can't get around it... Don D.


Obamacare IS Romney care.

Reply
 
 
Nov 4, 2014 15:43:07   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
Brian Devon wrote:
**************
In this country you can't eat the apple in one bite. We could not move straight into straight single payer national health care. Too many entrenched interests blocking the door---AMA, Big Pharma, K St. Lobbyists, Congressman beholden to campaign donors.

The journey to socialized medicine requires multiple steps before it can be achieved. President Obama has sheperded the nation through the first shaky steps of the process. It will probably take at least one more Democratic president to get there.

This nation was not ready to go straight to a Canadian, British, Scandanavian, or Israeli template.

Patience, patience.....it will happen. It's not a question of if, its a question of when.

A raising of the national consciousness is an extended process. One day Americans will view health care as a right, not a privilege. Just like the other first world developed nations.

We are getting there.....one step at a time.
************** br In this country you can't eat th... (show quote)


Would you agree that health care is an economic good?
Would you agree that economic goods require the utilization of resources to generate them?
Would you agree that there are other economic goods that are even more vital to life than health care - like food?

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 15:46:46   #
Rufus Loc: Deep South
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
Obamacare IS Romney care.


You are either misinformed or are lying. Yes some parts of Obamacare are taken from Romneycare but Romneycare was designed for the use in one state and was not the several thousand page obamination of obamacare. It was never intended to become the law of the land for the entire country and it was not pushed through against the will of the people who elected him to serve.

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 15:52:56   #
Brian Devon
 
Dave wrote:
Would you agree that health care is an economic good?
Would you agree that economic goods require the utilization of resources to generate them?
Would you agree that there are other economic goods that are even more vital to life than health care - like food?




*************
Progressive Democrats want to see this nation evolve to the point that no citizen should ever have to choose between food and health care. President Obama gets it as do so many of us.

No----health care is no more an economic good than black s***es used to be. It took a civil war for some Americans to realize that African-Americans were not economic goods. Apparently many right wingers need a little convincing that human health is not an economic good either. Capitalism is fine for making cars and computers. It is piss-poor at saving human lives.

If it were as marvelous as some of you right wingers imply, we would not be #38 in medical outcomes and #1 IN COSTS!

The task, is to move the late adapters along. I truly believe there will come a day when the freedom to access health care is as enshrined in the national consciousness as much as freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion.

We are getting there step by step. As they say, Rome was not built in a day.

Reply
Nov 4, 2014 15:53:00   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Rufus wrote:
You are either misinformed or are lying. Yes some parts of Obamacare are taken from Romneycare but Romneycare was designed for the use in one state and was not the several thousand page obamination of obamacare. It was never intended to become the law of the land for the entire country and it was not pushed through against the will of the people who elected him to serve.


Its been said many times, Romneycare was the model for Obamacare.

Reply
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