Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM
If it had not been so excruciatingly sad, Alex Jones’ defamation trial might have been cathartic.
Jones, the supplement-slinging conspiracy theorist, was ordered to pay more than $45 million in damages to Neil Heslin and Scarlett Lewis, the parents of a 6-year-old who was murdered in the 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. The jury’s verdict came after Jones was found liable for defaming Heslin and Lewis, whom for years he falsely accused of being crisis actors in a “false f**g” operation plotted by the government.
To the victims of Jones’ harassment campaigns and to those who have followed his career for years, the verdict felt long overdue — a notorious internet villain finally facing real consequences for his actions. The families of the children k**led at Sandy Hook, many of whom have waited years to see Jones pay for his lies, are no doubt relieved.
But before we celebrate Jones’ comeuppance, we should acknowledge that the verdict against him is unlikely to put much of a dent in the phenomenon he represents: belligerent fabulists building profitable media empires with easily disprovable lies.
Jones’ megaphone has shrunk in recent years — thanks, in part, to decisions by tech platforms like Facebook and Twitter to bar him from their services. But his reach is still substantial, and he has more influence than you might think.
Court records showed that Jones’ Infowars store, which sells dubious performance-enhancing supplements and survival gear, made more than $165 million from 2015 to 2018. Despite his de-platforming, Jones still appears as a guest on popular podcasts and YouTube shows, and millions of Americans still look to him as, if not a reliable chronicler of current events, at least a wacky diversion — and a wealthy one (an expert witness in the trial estimated the net worth of Jones and Free Speech Systems, his holding company, at somewhere between $135 million and $270 million).
In the coming weeks, Jones — a maestro of martyrdom — will no doubt spin his court defeat into hours of entertaining content, all of which will generate more attention, more subscribers, more money.
But a bigger reason for caution is that, whether or not Jones remains personally enriched by his lies, his shtick is everywhere these days.
You can see and hear Jones’ influence on Capitol Hill, where attention-seeking politicians often sound like they are auditioning for slots on Infowars. When Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., suggests that a mass shooting could have been orchestrated to persuade Republicans to support gun control measures, as she did in a Facebook post about the July 4 shooting in Highland Park, Illinois, she is playing hits from Jones’ back catalog. Jones also played a role in fueling the J*** 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, in ways we are still learning about. (The House panel investigating the i**********n has asked for a copy of the text messages from Jones’ phone that were mistakenly sent to the lawyers representing the plaintiffs in his defamation case.)
You can also see Jones’ influence in right-wing media. When Tucker Carlson stokes nativist fears on his Fox News show, or when a Newsmax host spins a bizarre conspiracy theory about an effort by Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, to have Justice Brett Kavanaugh of the Supreme Court k**led, it is proof that Infowars’ DNA has entered the conservative bloodstream.
Even outside politics, Jones’ choleric, wide-eyed style has influenced the way in which a new generation of conspiracy theorists looks for fame online.
These creators do not all rant about goblins and gay frogs, as Jones has. But they are pulling from the same fact-free playbook. Some of them focus on softer subject matter — like the kooky wellness influencers who recently went v***l for suggesting that Lyme disease is a “gift” caused by intergalactic space matter, or like Shane Dawson, a popular YouTube creator who has racked up hundreds of millions of views with conspiracy theory documentaries in which he credulously examines claims such as “Chuck E. Cheese reuses uneaten pizza” and “Wildfires are caused by directed energy weapons.”
Certain elements of left-wing and centrist discourse also owe a debt to Jones. The “Red Scare” podcast, which is popular with an anti-establishment “post-left” crowd, has interviewed Jones and shares some overlapping interests. Much of the unhinged coverage and analysis of the legal battle between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, which dominated social media this summer, had a Jonesian tinge. Even Joe Rogan, the popular podcast host (who has hosted Jones on his show and has defended him as “hilarious” and “entertaining”), has borrowed some of the Infowars founder’s connect-the-dots paranoia in arguing, for example, that C****-** v*****es can alter your genes.
It would be too simple to blame (or credit) Jones for inspiring the entire modern crank-sphere. But it is safe to say that many of today’s leading conspiracy theorists have found the same profitable sweet spot of lies and entertainment value. It is also probable that we have become desensitized to conspiracy theories, and many of the outrageous falsehoods that once got Jones into trouble — such as the allegations about Sandy Hook parents that were at the center of his defamation trial — would sound less shocking if uttered today.
Other conspiracy theorists are less likely than Jones to end up in court, in part because they have learned from his mistakes. Instead of straightforwardly accusing the families of mass-shooting victims of making it all up, they adopt a naive, “just asking questions” posture while poking holes in the official narrative. When attacking a foe, they tiptoe right up to the line of defamation, being careful not to do anything that could get them sued or barred from social media. And when they lead harassment campaigns, they pick their targets wisely — often maligning public figures rather than private citizens, which gives them broader speech protections under the First Amendment.
That is not to say there will not be more lawsuits or attempts to hold conspiracy theorists accountable. Fox News, for one, is facing a defamation lawsuit from D******n V****g Systems, which claims that the network knowingly made false statements about v***r f***d in the 2020 e******n.
But these cases are the exceptions, not the rule. The t***h is that today’s media ecosystem is overflowing with Infowars-style conspiracy theories — from History Channel shows about ancient aliens building the Egyptian pyramids to Tik Toks made by yoga moms who think Wayfair is selling trafficked children — and it is not clear that our legal system can or should even attempt to stop them.
Social media companies can help curb the spread of harmful lies by making it harder for fabulists to amass huge audiences. But they have their own limitations, including the simple fact that conspiracy theorists have gotten more sophisticated about evading their rules. If you draw a line at claiming that Bigfoot is real, attention-seeking cranks will simply get their millions of views by positing that Bigfoot might be real and that their audiences would be wise to do their own research to figure out what Bigfoot-related secrets the deep-state cabal is hiding.
To this new, more subtle generation of propagandists and reactionaries, Jones is an inspiration who ascended the profession’s highest peaks. But he is also a cautionary tale — of what can happen when you cross too many lines, tell too many easily disprovable lies and refuse to back down.
Jones is not done facing the music. Two more lawsuits brought against him by Sandy Hook family members are still pending, and he could end up owing millions more in damages.
Even if Jones’ career is ruined, his legacy of brazen, unrepentant dishonesty will live on — strengthened, in some ways, by the knowledge of exactly how far you can push a lie before consequences kick in.
slatten49 wrote:
Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM
If it had not been so excruciatingly sad, Alex Jones’ defamation trial might have been cathartic.
Jones, the supplement-slinging conspiracy theorist, was ordered to pay more than $45 million in damages to Neil Heslin and Scarlett Lewis, the parents of a 6-year-old who was murdered in the 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. The jury’s verdict came after Jones was found liable for defaming Heslin and Lewis, whom for years he falsely accused of being crisis actors in a “false f**g” operation plotted by the government.
To the victims of Jones’ harassment campaigns and to those who have followed his career for years, the verdict felt long overdue — a notorious internet villain finally facing real consequences for his actions. The families of the children k**led at Sandy Hook, many of whom have waited years to see Jones pay for his lies, are no doubt relieved.
But before we celebrate Jones’ comeuppance, we should acknowledge that the verdict against him is unlikely to put much of a dent in the phenomenon he represents: belligerent fabulists building profitable media empires with easily disprovable lies.
Jones’ megaphone has shrunk in recent years — thanks, in part, to decisions by tech platforms like Facebook and Twitter to bar him from their services. But his reach is still substantial, and he has more influence than you might think.
Court records showed that Jones’ Infowars store, which sells dubious performance-enhancing supplements and survival gear, made more than $165 million from 2015 to 2018. Despite his de-platforming, Jones still appears as a guest on popular podcasts and YouTube shows, and millions of Americans still look to him as, if not a reliable chronicler of current events, at least a wacky diversion — and a wealthy one (an expert witness in the trial estimated the net worth of Jones and Free Speech Systems, his holding company, at somewhere between $135 million and $270 million).
In the coming weeks, Jones — a maestro of martyrdom — will no doubt spin his court defeat into hours of entertaining content, all of which will generate more attention, more subscribers, more money.
But a bigger reason for caution is that, whether or not Jones remains personally enriched by his lies, his shtick is everywhere these days.
You can see and hear Jones’ influence on Capitol Hill, where attention-seeking politicians often sound like they are auditioning for slots on Infowars. When Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., suggests that a mass shooting could have been orchestrated to persuade Republicans to support gun control measures, as she did in a Facebook post about the July 4 shooting in Highland Park, Illinois, she is playing hits from Jones’ back catalog. Jones also played a role in fueling the J*** 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, in ways we are still learning about. (The House panel investigating the i**********n has asked for a copy of the text messages from Jones’ phone that were mistakenly sent to the lawyers representing the plaintiffs in his defamation case.)
You can also see Jones’ influence in right-wing media. When Tucker Carlson stokes nativist fears on his Fox News show, or when a Newsmax host spins a bizarre conspiracy theory about an effort by Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, to have Justice Brett Kavanaugh of the Supreme Court k**led, it is proof that Infowars’ DNA has entered the conservative bloodstream.
Even outside politics, Jones’ choleric, wide-eyed style has influenced the way in which a new generation of conspiracy theorists looks for fame online.
These creators do not all rant about goblins and gay frogs, as Jones has. But they are pulling from the same fact-free playbook. Some of them focus on softer subject matter — like the kooky wellness influencers who recently went v***l for suggesting that Lyme disease is a “gift” caused by intergalactic space matter, or like Shane Dawson, a popular YouTube creator who has racked up hundreds of millions of views with conspiracy theory documentaries in which he credulously examines claims such as “Chuck E. Cheese reuses uneaten pizza” and “Wildfires are caused by directed energy weapons.”
Certain elements of left-wing and centrist discourse also owe a debt to Jones. The “Red Scare” podcast, which is popular with an anti-establishment “post-left” crowd, has interviewed Jones and shares some overlapping interests. Much of the unhinged coverage and analysis of the legal battle between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, which dominated social media this summer, had a Jonesian tinge. Even Joe Rogan, the popular podcast host (who has hosted Jones on his show and has defended him as “hilarious” and “entertaining”), has borrowed some of the Infowars founder’s connect-the-dots paranoia in arguing, for example, that C****-** v*****es can alter your genes.
It would be too simple to blame (or credit) Jones for inspiring the entire modern crank-sphere. But it is safe to say that many of today’s leading conspiracy theorists have found the same profitable sweet spot of lies and entertainment value. It is also probable that we have become desensitized to conspiracy theories, and many of the outrageous falsehoods that once got Jones into trouble — such as the allegations about Sandy Hook parents that were at the center of his defamation trial — would sound less shocking if uttered today.
Other conspiracy theorists are less likely than Jones to end up in court, in part because they have learned from his mistakes. Instead of straightforwardly accusing the families of mass-shooting victims of making it all up, they adopt a naive, “just asking questions” posture while poking holes in the official narrative. When attacking a foe, they tiptoe right up to the line of defamation, being careful not to do anything that could get them sued or barred from social media. And when they lead harassment campaigns, they pick their targets wisely — often maligning public figures rather than private citizens, which gives them broader speech protections under the First Amendment.
That is not to say there will not be more lawsuits or attempts to hold conspiracy theorists accountable. Fox News, for one, is facing a defamation lawsuit from D******n V****g Systems, which claims that the network knowingly made false statements about v***r f***d in the 2020 e******n.
But these cases are the exceptions, not the rule. The t***h is that today’s media ecosystem is overflowing with Infowars-style conspiracy theories — from History Channel shows about ancient aliens building the Egyptian pyramids to Tik Toks made by yoga moms who think Wayfair is selling trafficked children — and it is not clear that our legal system can or should even attempt to stop them.
Social media companies can help curb the spread of harmful lies by making it harder for fabulists to amass huge audiences. But they have their own limitations, including the simple fact that conspiracy theorists have gotten more sophisticated about evading their rules. If you draw a line at claiming that Bigfoot is real, attention-seeking cranks will simply get their millions of views by positing that Bigfoot might be real and that their audiences would be wise to do their own research to figure out what Bigfoot-related secrets the deep-state cabal is hiding.
To this new, more subtle generation of propagandists and reactionaries, Jones is an inspiration who ascended the profession’s highest peaks. But he is also a cautionary tale — of what can happen when you cross too many lines, tell too many easily disprovable lies and refuse to back down.
Jones is not done facing the music. Two more lawsuits brought against him by Sandy Hook family members are still pending, and he could end up owing millions more in damages.
Even if Jones’ career is ruined, his legacy of brazen, unrepentant dishonesty will live on — strengthened, in some ways, by the knowledge of exactly how far you can push a lie before consequences kick in.
Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM br br... (
show quote)
Just like Biden’s comeuppance in afganistan and failures to stop their lies of a great economy!! Zombie
Wonttakeitanymore wrote:
Just like Biden’s comeuppance in afganistan and failures to stop their lies of a great economy!! Zombie
Slat has no thoughts of his own. He can only post the rambling discourse of someone else.
slatten49 wrote:
Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM
If it had not been so excruciatingly sad, Alex Jones’ defamation trial might have been cathartic.
Jones, the supplement-slinging conspiracy theorist, was ordered to pay more than $45 million in damages to Neil Heslin and Scarlett Lewis, the parents of a 6-year-old who was murdered in the 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. The jury’s verdict came after Jones was found liable for defaming Heslin and Lewis, whom for years he falsely accused of being crisis actors in a “false f**g” operation plotted by the government.
To the victims of Jones’ harassment campaigns and to those who have followed his career for years, the verdict felt long overdue — a notorious internet villain finally facing real consequences for his actions. The families of the children k**led at Sandy Hook, many of whom have waited years to see Jones pay for his lies, are no doubt relieved.
But before we celebrate Jones’ comeuppance, we should acknowledge that the verdict against him is unlikely to put much of a dent in the phenomenon he represents: belligerent fabulists building profitable media empires with easily disprovable lies.
Jones’ megaphone has shrunk in recent years — thanks, in part, to decisions by tech platforms like Facebook and Twitter to bar him from their services. But his reach is still substantial, and he has more influence than you might think.
Court records showed that Jones’ Infowars store, which sells dubious performance-enhancing supplements and survival gear, made more than $165 million from 2015 to 2018. Despite his de-platforming, Jones still appears as a guest on popular podcasts and YouTube shows, and millions of Americans still look to him as, if not a reliable chronicler of current events, at least a wacky diversion — and a wealthy one (an expert witness in the trial estimated the net worth of Jones and Free Speech Systems, his holding company, at somewhere between $135 million and $270 million).
In the coming weeks, Jones — a maestro of martyrdom — will no doubt spin his court defeat into hours of entertaining content, all of which will generate more attention, more subscribers, more money.
But a bigger reason for caution is that, whether or not Jones remains personally enriched by his lies, his shtick is everywhere these days.
You can see and hear Jones’ influence on Capitol Hill, where attention-seeking politicians often sound like they are auditioning for slots on Infowars. When Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., suggests that a mass shooting could have been orchestrated to persuade Republicans to support gun control measures, as she did in a Facebook post about the July 4 shooting in Highland Park, Illinois, she is playing hits from Jones’ back catalog. Jones also played a role in fueling the J*** 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, in ways we are still learning about. (The House panel investigating the i**********n has asked for a copy of the text messages from Jones’ phone that were mistakenly sent to the lawyers representing the plaintiffs in his defamation case.)
You can also see Jones’ influence in right-wing media. When Tucker Carlson stokes nativist fears on his Fox News show, or when a Newsmax host spins a bizarre conspiracy theory about an effort by Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, to have Justice Brett Kavanaugh of the Supreme Court k**led, it is proof that Infowars’ DNA has entered the conservative bloodstream.
Even outside politics, Jones’ choleric, wide-eyed style has influenced the way in which a new generation of conspiracy theorists looks for fame online.
These creators do not all rant about goblins and gay frogs, as Jones has. But they are pulling from the same fact-free playbook. Some of them focus on softer subject matter — like the kooky wellness influencers who recently went v***l for suggesting that Lyme disease is a “gift” caused by intergalactic space matter, or like Shane Dawson, a popular YouTube creator who has racked up hundreds of millions of views with conspiracy theory documentaries in which he credulously examines claims such as “Chuck E. Cheese reuses uneaten pizza” and “Wildfires are caused by directed energy weapons.”
Certain elements of left-wing and centrist discourse also owe a debt to Jones. The “Red Scare” podcast, which is popular with an anti-establishment “post-left” crowd, has interviewed Jones and shares some overlapping interests. Much of the unhinged coverage and analysis of the legal battle between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, which dominated social media this summer, had a Jonesian tinge. Even Joe Rogan, the popular podcast host (who has hosted Jones on his show and has defended him as “hilarious” and “entertaining”), has borrowed some of the Infowars founder’s connect-the-dots paranoia in arguing, for example, that C****-** v*****es can alter your genes.
It would be too simple to blame (or credit) Jones for inspiring the entire modern crank-sphere. But it is safe to say that many of today’s leading conspiracy theorists have found the same profitable sweet spot of lies and entertainment value. It is also probable that we have become desensitized to conspiracy theories, and many of the outrageous falsehoods that once got Jones into trouble — such as the allegations about Sandy Hook parents that were at the center of his defamation trial — would sound less shocking if uttered today.
Other conspiracy theorists are less likely than Jones to end up in court, in part because they have learned from his mistakes. Instead of straightforwardly accusing the families of mass-shooting victims of making it all up, they adopt a naive, “just asking questions” posture while poking holes in the official narrative. When attacking a foe, they tiptoe right up to the line of defamation, being careful not to do anything that could get them sued or barred from social media. And when they lead harassment campaigns, they pick their targets wisely — often maligning public figures rather than private citizens, which gives them broader speech protections under the First Amendment.
That is not to say there will not be more lawsuits or attempts to hold conspiracy theorists accountable. Fox News, for one, is facing a defamation lawsuit from D******n V****g Systems, which claims that the network knowingly made false statements about v***r f***d in the 2020 e******n.
But these cases are the exceptions, not the rule. The t***h is that today’s media ecosystem is overflowing with Infowars-style conspiracy theories — from History Channel shows about ancient aliens building the Egyptian pyramids to Tik Toks made by yoga moms who think Wayfair is selling trafficked children — and it is not clear that our legal system can or should even attempt to stop them.
Social media companies can help curb the spread of harmful lies by making it harder for fabulists to amass huge audiences. But they have their own limitations, including the simple fact that conspiracy theorists have gotten more sophisticated about evading their rules. If you draw a line at claiming that Bigfoot is real, attention-seeking cranks will simply get their millions of views by positing that Bigfoot might be real and that their audiences would be wise to do their own research to figure out what Bigfoot-related secrets the deep-state cabal is hiding.
To this new, more subtle generation of propagandists and reactionaries, Jones is an inspiration who ascended the profession’s highest peaks. But he is also a cautionary tale — of what can happen when you cross too many lines, tell too many easily disprovable lies and refuse to back down.
Jones is not done facing the music. Two more lawsuits brought against him by Sandy Hook family members are still pending, and he could end up owing millions more in damages.
Even if Jones’ career is ruined, his legacy of brazen, unrepentant dishonesty will live on — strengthened, in some ways, by the knowledge of exactly how far you can push a lie before consequences kick in.
Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM br br... (
show quote)
Not all of Alex Jones' rants were lies. He often read directly from the Congressional records. He might have offered his opinion on what he thought it meant and maybe connected some dots from different narratives but much of his reporting was accurate. We need someone like him and Tom Cotten of Judicial watch to let the bought off congress know we are paying attention to their shenanigans.
Also most false f**g operations have real victims .Jones should have been more careful in his reporting. I feel sorry for the parents of all the children k**led at sandy hook but some elements of the tragedy just don't add up.
slatten49 wrote:
Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM
If it had not been so excruciatingly sad, Alex Jones’ defamation trial might have been cathartic.
Jones, the supplement-slinging conspiracy theorist, was ordered to pay more than $45 million in damages to Neil Heslin and Scarlett Lewis, the parents of a 6-year-old who was murdered in the 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. The jury’s verdict came after Jones was found liable for defaming Heslin and Lewis, whom for years he falsely accused of being crisis actors in a “false f**g” operation plotted by the government.
To the victims of Jones’ harassment campaigns and to those who have followed his career for years, the verdict felt long overdue — a notorious internet villain finally facing real consequences for his actions. The families of the children k**led at Sandy Hook, many of whom have waited years to see Jones pay for his lies, are no doubt relieved.
But before we celebrate Jones’ comeuppance, we should acknowledge that the verdict against him is unlikely to put much of a dent in the phenomenon he represents: belligerent fabulists building profitable media empires with easily disprovable lies.
Jones’ megaphone has shrunk in recent years — thanks, in part, to decisions by tech platforms like Facebook and Twitter to bar him from their services. But his reach is still substantial, and he has more influence than you might think.
Court records showed that Jones’ Infowars store, which sells dubious performance-enhancing supplements and survival gear, made more than $165 million from 2015 to 2018. Despite his de-platforming, Jones still appears as a guest on popular podcasts and YouTube shows, and millions of Americans still look to him as, if not a reliable chronicler of current events, at least a wacky diversion — and a wealthy one (an expert witness in the trial estimated the net worth of Jones and Free Speech Systems, his holding company, at somewhere between $135 million and $270 million).
In the coming weeks, Jones — a maestro of martyrdom — will no doubt spin his court defeat into hours of entertaining content, all of which will generate more attention, more subscribers, more money.
But a bigger reason for caution is that, whether or not Jones remains personally enriched by his lies, his shtick is everywhere these days.
You can see and hear Jones’ influence on Capitol Hill, where attention-seeking politicians often sound like they are auditioning for slots on Infowars. When Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., suggests that a mass shooting could have been orchestrated to persuade Republicans to support gun control measures, as she did in a Facebook post about the July 4 shooting in Highland Park, Illinois, she is playing hits from Jones’ back catalog. Jones also played a role in fueling the J*** 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, in ways we are still learning about. (The House panel investigating the i**********n has asked for a copy of the text messages from Jones’ phone that were mistakenly sent to the lawyers representing the plaintiffs in his defamation case.)
You can also see Jones’ influence in right-wing media. When Tucker Carlson stokes nativist fears on his Fox News show, or when a Newsmax host spins a bizarre conspiracy theory about an effort by Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, to have Justice Brett Kavanaugh of the Supreme Court k**led, it is proof that Infowars’ DNA has entered the conservative bloodstream.
Even outside politics, Jones’ choleric, wide-eyed style has influenced the way in which a new generation of conspiracy theorists looks for fame online.
These creators do not all rant about goblins and gay frogs, as Jones has. But they are pulling from the same fact-free playbook. Some of them focus on softer subject matter — like the kooky wellness influencers who recently went v***l for suggesting that Lyme disease is a “gift” caused by intergalactic space matter, or like Shane Dawson, a popular YouTube creator who has racked up hundreds of millions of views with conspiracy theory documentaries in which he credulously examines claims such as “Chuck E. Cheese reuses uneaten pizza” and “Wildfires are caused by directed energy weapons.”
Certain elements of left-wing and centrist discourse also owe a debt to Jones. The “Red Scare” podcast, which is popular with an anti-establishment “post-left” crowd, has interviewed Jones and shares some overlapping interests. Much of the unhinged coverage and analysis of the legal battle between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, which dominated social media this summer, had a Jonesian tinge. Even Joe Rogan, the popular podcast host (who has hosted Jones on his show and has defended him as “hilarious” and “entertaining”), has borrowed some of the Infowars founder’s connect-the-dots paranoia in arguing, for example, that C****-** v*****es can alter your genes.
It would be too simple to blame (or credit) Jones for inspiring the entire modern crank-sphere. But it is safe to say that many of today’s leading conspiracy theorists have found the same profitable sweet spot of lies and entertainment value. It is also probable that we have become desensitized to conspiracy theories, and many of the outrageous falsehoods that once got Jones into trouble — such as the allegations about Sandy Hook parents that were at the center of his defamation trial — would sound less shocking if uttered today.
Other conspiracy theorists are less likely than Jones to end up in court, in part because they have learned from his mistakes. Instead of straightforwardly accusing the families of mass-shooting victims of making it all up, they adopt a naive, “just asking questions” posture while poking holes in the official narrative. When attacking a foe, they tiptoe right up to the line of defamation, being careful not to do anything that could get them sued or barred from social media. And when they lead harassment campaigns, they pick their targets wisely — often maligning public figures rather than private citizens, which gives them broader speech protections under the First Amendment.
That is not to say there will not be more lawsuits or attempts to hold conspiracy theorists accountable. Fox News, for one, is facing a defamation lawsuit from D******n V****g Systems, which claims that the network knowingly made false statements about v***r f***d in the 2020 e******n.
But these cases are the exceptions, not the rule. The t***h is that today’s media ecosystem is overflowing with Infowars-style conspiracy theories — from History Channel shows about ancient aliens building the Egyptian pyramids to Tik Toks made by yoga moms who think Wayfair is selling trafficked children — and it is not clear that our legal system can or should even attempt to stop them.
Social media companies can help curb the spread of harmful lies by making it harder for fabulists to amass huge audiences. But they have their own limitations, including the simple fact that conspiracy theorists have gotten more sophisticated about evading their rules. If you draw a line at claiming that Bigfoot is real, attention-seeking cranks will simply get their millions of views by positing that Bigfoot might be real and that their audiences would be wise to do their own research to figure out what Bigfoot-related secrets the deep-state cabal is hiding.
To this new, more subtle generation of propagandists and reactionaries, Jones is an inspiration who ascended the profession’s highest peaks. But he is also a cautionary tale — of what can happen when you cross too many lines, tell too many easily disprovable lies and refuse to back down.
Jones is not done facing the music. Two more lawsuits brought against him by Sandy Hook family members are still pending, and he could end up owing millions more in damages.
Even if Jones’ career is ruined, his legacy of brazen, unrepentant dishonesty will live on — strengthened, in some ways, by the knowledge of exactly how far you can push a lie before consequences kick in.
Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM br br... (
show quote)
You forget to mention Hitlery's non-conspiracy conspiracy against Donald Trump which lasted for 4+ years, cost the American taxpayer $$$billions and ruined thousands of lives as well as hi-jacked a duly elected President and his 85 million v**ers. Where's the$$ billions that the old nag Hitlery owes us???? Where's the $billions that Shiftey Schitt owes us for continuing this travesty of a lie when he knew Trump was innocent? How about the corrupt major media $$$ billions they owe us for fomenting this f**e Russian Collusion Delusion story?? How about the FBI lies, Peter Stoyck lies, Lisa Page lies about Trump? Hell, our national debt could be paid off if all these scum had to pay us back for their i**********nism,lies,distortion, pay to play schemes with the Clinton's let alone Page and Stroyck carrying on an illicit affair while donating to Hitlery's campaign. Come on slats, I thought you were smarter than this but again you disappoint us real Patriots. Alex Jones's lie was mild compared to what your party did to us for 4+ years and is continuing to do. Right now your party should have to declare bankruptcy due to all the harm they have caused us and the money they owe us for their lies and deceit.
Liberty Tree wrote:
Slat has no thoughts of his own. He can only post the rambling discourse of someone else.
No thread of mine would be complete without a caustic and/or bitter response from you.
Wonttakeitanymore wrote:
Just like Biden’s comeuppance in afganistan and failures to stop their lies of a great economy!! Zombie
He’s not a zombie. Far from it.
There are too many out there - left and right - that peddle misinformation. And too many people tend to believe the ones who are on their ‘side’. Its a growing problem
slatten49 wrote:
Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM
If it had not been so excruciatingly sad, Alex Jones’ defamation trial might have been cathartic.
Jones, the supplement-slinging conspiracy theorist, was ordered to pay more than $45 million in damages to Neil Heslin and Scarlett Lewis, the parents of a 6-year-old who was murdered in the 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. The jury’s verdict came after Jones was found liable for defaming Heslin and Lewis, whom for years he falsely accused of being crisis actors in a “false f**g” operation plotted by the government.
To the victims of Jones’ harassment campaigns and to those who have followed his career for years, the verdict felt long overdue — a notorious internet villain finally facing real consequences for his actions. The families of the children k**led at Sandy Hook, many of whom have waited years to see Jones pay for his lies, are no doubt relieved.
But before we celebrate Jones’ comeuppance, we should acknowledge that the verdict against him is unlikely to put much of a dent in the phenomenon he represents: belligerent fabulists building profitable media empires with easily disprovable lies.
Jones’ megaphone has shrunk in recent years — thanks, in part, to decisions by tech platforms like Facebook and Twitter to bar him from their services. But his reach is still substantial, and he has more influence than you might think.
Court records showed that Jones’ Infowars store, which sells dubious performance-enhancing supplements and survival gear, made more than $165 million from 2015 to 2018. Despite his de-platforming, Jones still appears as a guest on popular podcasts and YouTube shows, and millions of Americans still look to him as, if not a reliable chronicler of current events, at least a wacky diversion — and a wealthy one (an expert witness in the trial estimated the net worth of Jones and Free Speech Systems, his holding company, at somewhere between $135 million and $270 million).
In the coming weeks, Jones — a maestro of martyrdom — will no doubt spin his court defeat into hours of entertaining content, all of which will generate more attention, more subscribers, more money.
But a bigger reason for caution is that, whether or not Jones remains personally enriched by his lies, his shtick is everywhere these days.
You can see and hear Jones’ influence on Capitol Hill, where attention-seeking politicians often sound like they are auditioning for slots on Infowars. When Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., suggests that a mass shooting could have been orchestrated to persuade Republicans to support gun control measures, as she did in a Facebook post about the July 4 shooting in Highland Park, Illinois, she is playing hits from Jones’ back catalog. Jones also played a role in fueling the J*** 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, in ways we are still learning about. (The House panel investigating the i**********n has asked for a copy of the text messages from Jones’ phone that were mistakenly sent to the lawyers representing the plaintiffs in his defamation case.)
You can also see Jones’ influence in right-wing media. When Tucker Carlson stokes nativist fears on his Fox News show, or when a Newsmax host spins a bizarre conspiracy theory about an effort by Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, to have Justice Brett Kavanaugh of the Supreme Court k**led, it is proof that Infowars’ DNA has entered the conservative bloodstream.
Even outside politics, Jones’ choleric, wide-eyed style has influenced the way in which a new generation of conspiracy theorists looks for fame online.
These creators do not all rant about goblins and gay frogs, as Jones has. But they are pulling from the same fact-free playbook. Some of them focus on softer subject matter — like the kooky wellness influencers who recently went v***l for suggesting that Lyme disease is a “gift” caused by intergalactic space matter, or like Shane Dawson, a popular YouTube creator who has racked up hundreds of millions of views with conspiracy theory documentaries in which he credulously examines claims such as “Chuck E. Cheese reuses uneaten pizza” and “Wildfires are caused by directed energy weapons.”
Certain elements of left-wing and centrist discourse also owe a debt to Jones. The “Red Scare” podcast, which is popular with an anti-establishment “post-left” crowd, has interviewed Jones and shares some overlapping interests. Much of the unhinged coverage and analysis of the legal battle between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, which dominated social media this summer, had a Jonesian tinge. Even Joe Rogan, the popular podcast host (who has hosted Jones on his show and has defended him as “hilarious” and “entertaining”), has borrowed some of the Infowars founder’s connect-the-dots paranoia in arguing, for example, that C****-** v*****es can alter your genes.
It would be too simple to blame (or credit) Jones for inspiring the entire modern crank-sphere. But it is safe to say that many of today’s leading conspiracy theorists have found the same profitable sweet spot of lies and entertainment value. It is also probable that we have become desensitized to conspiracy theories, and many of the outrageous falsehoods that once got Jones into trouble — such as the allegations about Sandy Hook parents that were at the center of his defamation trial — would sound less shocking if uttered today.
Other conspiracy theorists are less likely than Jones to end up in court, in part because they have learned from his mistakes. Instead of straightforwardly accusing the families of mass-shooting victims of making it all up, they adopt a naive, “just asking questions” posture while poking holes in the official narrative. When attacking a foe, they tiptoe right up to the line of defamation, being careful not to do anything that could get them sued or barred from social media. And when they lead harassment campaigns, they pick their targets wisely — often maligning public figures rather than private citizens, which gives them broader speech protections under the First Amendment.
That is not to say there will not be more lawsuits or attempts to hold conspiracy theorists accountable. Fox News, for one, is facing a defamation lawsuit from D******n V****g Systems, which claims that the network knowingly made false statements about v***r f***d in the 2020 e******n.
But these cases are the exceptions, not the rule. The t***h is that today’s media ecosystem is overflowing with Infowars-style conspiracy theories — from History Channel shows about ancient aliens building the Egyptian pyramids to Tik Toks made by yoga moms who think Wayfair is selling trafficked children — and it is not clear that our legal system can or should even attempt to stop them.
Social media companies can help curb the spread of harmful lies by making it harder for fabulists to amass huge audiences. But they have their own limitations, including the simple fact that conspiracy theorists have gotten more sophisticated about evading their rules. If you draw a line at claiming that Bigfoot is real, attention-seeking cranks will simply get their millions of views by positing that Bigfoot might be real and that their audiences would be wise to do their own research to figure out what Bigfoot-related secrets the deep-state cabal is hiding.
To this new, more subtle generation of propagandists and reactionaries, Jones is an inspiration who ascended the profession’s highest peaks. But he is also a cautionary tale — of what can happen when you cross too many lines, tell too many easily disprovable lies and refuse to back down.
Jones is not done facing the music. Two more lawsuits brought against him by Sandy Hook family members are still pending, and he could end up owing millions more in damages.
Even if Jones’ career is ruined, his legacy of brazen, unrepentant dishonesty will live on — strengthened, in some ways, by the knowledge of exactly how far you can push a lie before consequences kick in.
Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM br br... (
show quote)
Jones is a tabloid which has run amuck into the land of serous believers, but he's not much unlike the l*****t media's attempts at gaslighting about events like J** 6th or liing about comments like they have with almost everything Trump ever said, or twisting narratives to stir up the populous as in the Trump "Muslim ban," which was not a Muslim ban at all.
All have the same intent, to benefit from lies.
Big Kahuna wrote:
You forget to mention Hitlery's non-conspiracy conspiracy against Donald Trump which lasted for 4+ years, cost the American taxpayer $$$billions and ruined thousands of lives as well as hi-jacked a duly elected President and his 85 million v**ers. Where's the$$ billions that the old nag Hitlery owes us???? Where's the $billions that Shiftey Schitt owes us for continuing this travesty of a lie when he knew Trump was innocent? How about the corrupt major media $$$ billions they owe us for fomenting this f**e Russian Collusion Delusion story?? How about the FBI lies, Peter Stoyck lies, Lisa Page lies about Trump? Hell, our national debt could be paid off if all these scum had to pay us back for their i**********nism,lies,distortion, pay to play schemes with the Clinton's let alone Page and Stroyck carrying on an illicit affair while donating to Hitlery's campaign. Come on slats, I thought you were smarter than this but again you disappoint us real Patriots. Alex Jones's lie was mild compared to what your party did to us for 4+ years and is continuing to do. Right now your party should have to declare bankruptcy due to all the harm they have caused us and the money they owe us for their lies and deceit.
You forget to mention Hitlery's non-conspiracy con... (
show quote)
Good comment. I forgot to mention those as well.
slatten49 wrote:
Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM
If it had not been so excruciatingly sad, Alex Jones’ defamation trial might have been cathartic.
Jones, the supplement-slinging conspiracy theorist, was ordered to pay more than $45 million in damages to Neil Heslin and Scarlett Lewis, the parents of a 6-year-old who was murdered in the 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. The jury’s verdict came after Jones was found liable for defaming Heslin and Lewis, whom for years he falsely accused of being crisis actors in a “false f**g” operation plotted by the government.
To the victims of Jones’ harassment campaigns and to those who have followed his career for years, the verdict felt long overdue — a notorious internet villain finally facing real consequences for his actions. The families of the children k**led at Sandy Hook, many of whom have waited years to see Jones pay for his lies, are no doubt relieved.
But before we celebrate Jones’ comeuppance, we should acknowledge that the verdict against him is unlikely to put much of a dent in the phenomenon he represents: belligerent fabulists building profitable media empires with easily disprovable lies.
Jones’ megaphone has shrunk in recent years — thanks, in part, to decisions by tech platforms like Facebook and Twitter to bar him from their services. But his reach is still substantial, and he has more influence than you might think.
Court records showed that Jones’ Infowars store, which sells dubious performance-enhancing supplements and survival gear, made more than $165 million from 2015 to 2018. Despite his de-platforming, Jones still appears as a guest on popular podcasts and YouTube shows, and millions of Americans still look to him as, if not a reliable chronicler of current events, at least a wacky diversion — and a wealthy one (an expert witness in the trial estimated the net worth of Jones and Free Speech Systems, his holding company, at somewhere between $135 million and $270 million).
In the coming weeks, Jones — a maestro of martyrdom — will no doubt spin his court defeat into hours of entertaining content, all of which will generate more attention, more subscribers, more money.
But a bigger reason for caution is that, whether or not Jones remains personally enriched by his lies, his shtick is everywhere these days.
You can see and hear Jones’ influence on Capitol Hill, where attention-seeking politicians often sound like they are auditioning for slots on Infowars. When Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., suggests that a mass shooting could have been orchestrated to persuade Republicans to support gun control measures, as she did in a Facebook post about the July 4 shooting in Highland Park, Illinois, she is playing hits from Jones’ back catalog. Jones also played a role in fueling the J*** 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, in ways we are still learning about. (The House panel investigating the i**********n has asked for a copy of the text messages from Jones’ phone that were mistakenly sent to the lawyers representing the plaintiffs in his defamation case.)
You can also see Jones’ influence in right-wing media. When Tucker Carlson stokes nativist fears on his Fox News show, or when a Newsmax host spins a bizarre conspiracy theory about an effort by Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, to have Justice Brett Kavanaugh of the Supreme Court k**led, it is proof that Infowars’ DNA has entered the conservative bloodstream.
Even outside politics, Jones’ choleric, wide-eyed style has influenced the way in which a new generation of conspiracy theorists looks for fame online.
These creators do not all rant about goblins and gay frogs, as Jones has. But they are pulling from the same fact-free playbook. Some of them focus on softer subject matter — like the kooky wellness influencers who recently went v***l for suggesting that Lyme disease is a “gift” caused by intergalactic space matter, or like Shane Dawson, a popular YouTube creator who has racked up hundreds of millions of views with conspiracy theory documentaries in which he credulously examines claims such as “Chuck E. Cheese reuses uneaten pizza” and “Wildfires are caused by directed energy weapons.”
Certain elements of left-wing and centrist discourse also owe a debt to Jones. The “Red Scare” podcast, which is popular with an anti-establishment “post-left” crowd, has interviewed Jones and shares some overlapping interests. Much of the unhinged coverage and analysis of the legal battle between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, which dominated social media this summer, had a Jonesian tinge. Even Joe Rogan, the popular podcast host (who has hosted Jones on his show and has defended him as “hilarious” and “entertaining”), has borrowed some of the Infowars founder’s connect-the-dots paranoia in arguing, for example, that C****-** v*****es can alter your genes.
It would be too simple to blame (or credit) Jones for inspiring the entire modern crank-sphere. But it is safe to say that many of today’s leading conspiracy theorists have found the same profitable sweet spot of lies and entertainment value. It is also probable that we have become desensitized to conspiracy theories, and many of the outrageous falsehoods that once got Jones into trouble — such as the allegations about Sandy Hook parents that were at the center of his defamation trial — would sound less shocking if uttered today.
Other conspiracy theorists are less likely than Jones to end up in court, in part because they have learned from his mistakes. Instead of straightforwardly accusing the families of mass-shooting victims of making it all up, they adopt a naive, “just asking questions” posture while poking holes in the official narrative. When attacking a foe, they tiptoe right up to the line of defamation, being careful not to do anything that could get them sued or barred from social media. And when they lead harassment campaigns, they pick their targets wisely — often maligning public figures rather than private citizens, which gives them broader speech protections under the First Amendment.
That is not to say there will not be more lawsuits or attempts to hold conspiracy theorists accountable. Fox News, for one, is facing a defamation lawsuit from D******n V****g Systems, which claims that the network knowingly made false statements about v***r f***d in the 2020 e******n.
But these cases are the exceptions, not the rule. The t***h is that today’s media ecosystem is overflowing with Infowars-style conspiracy theories — from History Channel shows about ancient aliens building the Egyptian pyramids to Tik Toks made by yoga moms who think Wayfair is selling trafficked children — and it is not clear that our legal system can or should even attempt to stop them.
Social media companies can help curb the spread of harmful lies by making it harder for fabulists to amass huge audiences. But they have their own limitations, including the simple fact that conspiracy theorists have gotten more sophisticated about evading their rules. If you draw a line at claiming that Bigfoot is real, attention-seeking cranks will simply get their millions of views by positing that Bigfoot might be real and that their audiences would be wise to do their own research to figure out what Bigfoot-related secrets the deep-state cabal is hiding.
To this new, more subtle generation of propagandists and reactionaries, Jones is an inspiration who ascended the profession’s highest peaks. But he is also a cautionary tale — of what can happen when you cross too many lines, tell too many easily disprovable lies and refuse to back down.
Jones is not done facing the music. Two more lawsuits brought against him by Sandy Hook family members are still pending, and he could end up owing millions more in damages.
Even if Jones’ career is ruined, his legacy of brazen, unrepentant dishonesty will live on — strengthened, in some ways, by the knowledge of exactly how far you can push a lie before consequences kick in.
Kevin Roose; Sun, August 7, 2022 at 9:39 AM br br... (
show quote)
Mornin' Slatt
Below is me, worrying about.....wait... what's his name....Alex something or another ?
Liberty Tree wrote:
Slat has no thoughts of his own. He can only post the rambling discourse of someone else.
I know that! Just like he claims to be centrist! Just mad cause he v**ed for the fossil
Rose42 wrote:
He’s not a zombie. Far from it.
There are too many out there - left and right - that peddle misinformation. And too many people tend to believe the ones who are on their ‘side’. Its a growing problem
Discernment is the answer
If you want to reply, then
register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
