A break from politics...
I don’t think there’s a foregone conclusion that Tiger Woods is already the golf GOAT. I still have Jack Nicklaus as the solid number one. And I doubt Tiger can ever surpass him. Here’s why:
All the great golfers focus on the majors, so the best measuring rod of true greatness is obviously the majors.
Just to win one major is a tremendous achievement, and a single victory in a major instantly elevates the winner to a higher level, esteem-wise. For instance, it took Phil Mickelson longer than expected to win his first major. The way Mickelson was evaluated before he won his first major (i.e., as an under-performer and “the best golfer never to have won a major”), and the way he has been evaluated since (i.e., as the second-best golfer of his era and one of the all-time greats), demonstrates the utmost importance of the majors. Really, for the elite golfers, it’s the only measuring rod. Another “for instance”: Greg Norman was the dominant golfer of his era, but he fell short in multiple tightly contested majors. As a result, almost no one has Norman in the upper echelons, where he would undoubtedly be close to Mickelson if he had won more majors. Having established the critical importance of the majors, let’s now look at the majors, objectively …
Jack Nicklaus is number one in majors won, with 18. Tiger Woods is second, with 15. Nicklaus is also first in second-place finishes at majors, with 19. That is another tremendous achievement. Seven of those second-place finishes came at the British Open, which doesn’t suit most American golfers as much as the other majors. Tiger Woods had only six second-place finishes. This means the Golden Bear finished first or second 37 times, to 21 times by Tiger. That is a substantial difference, and gives a clear advantage to Nicklaus. Nicklaus finished third in majors nine times to Tiger’s four. This means Nicklaus finished in the top three 46 times, to Tiger’s 25, or almost double. Nicklaus had 56 top five finishes in the majors, to 33 by Tiger. Advantage to Nicklaus yet again. Once again, close to double. Jack is also the runaway winner in top-ten finishes in the majors with a staggering 73. Tiger has 41 top-ten finishes, a bit more than half as many.
Overall, I think Nicklaus is the clear winner in the majors, and is thus the golf GOAT. And I think he did it against tougher top-line competition: Billy Casper, Gary Player, Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, and Tom Watson. Nicklaus' main competitors won 29% percent the majors in Nicklaus's prime years. Tiger Woods' main competitors have been Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els, Retief Goosen, Vijay Singh, and Jim Furyk. Honestly, I don’t think it’s all that close. Yes, Tiger probably faced deeper competition, but in the majors the cream rises to the top. And the cream was simply better in Nicklaus’s prime.
I have Jack Nicklaus as the clear number one golfer of all time, and the golf GOAT, due to his complete dominance of the majors compared to all other golfers, with Tiger a not-so-close second. The following are interesting facts about Jack Nicklaus from Golf Digest:
1. From 1970 to 1979, Nicklaus' worst finish at the Masters was eighth.
2. In 1998, at age 58, Nicklaus shot the lowest final round (68) for a senior in Masters history. He finished T-6, also setting the record for lowest total score for a senior.
3. In 44 majors from 1970-1980, Nicklaus missed ONE cut. In that span he finished inside the top 10 38 times, and 30 of those were in the top five. He won 10 of those times.
4. At the 1965 Masters, Nicklaus played the front nine in 12 under for the week, which is tied for the all-time record. He won his second green jacket that year by nine shots over Arnold Palmer.
5. Nicklaus holds the record for most top-10 finishes at Augusta with 22, as well as cuts made, with 37. He also holds the record for wins with six, and runner-up finishes with four.
6. As an amateur, Nicklaus finished inside the top 10 three times in major championships, including a solo second at the 1960 U.S. Open and a T-4 at the 1961 U.S. Open. The following year he won the event for his first major title, beating Arnold Palmer in a playoff at Oakmont.
7. Nicklaus has 19 runner-up finishes in majors, and five of those came in a playoff or by one stroke. Three of those times he was edged out by Lee Trevino, who beat him in the 1971 U.S. Open in a playoff, then beat him by one stroke at the 1972 Open Championship and 1974 PGA Championship.
8. For his career, Nicklaus has 68 finishes of seventh or better at majors.
9. From the 1970 Open Championship to the 1978 Open Championship, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just twice in majors.
10. Nicklaus made the cut in 39 straight majors from the 1969 Masters to the 1978 Open Championship. Tiger Woods matched that streak with his run from the 1996 U.S. Open to the 2006 Masters.
11. From the 1973 Masters to the 1976 Masters, Nicklaus had 13 straight top-10 finishes in majors.
12. In his 50s, Nicklaus made nine starts in the Masters and missed the cut only once. Twice he finished sixth, and he finished no worse than T-42 in his other six trips to Augusta as a senior.
13. Nicklaus' worst finish in the Open Championship between 1966 and 1980? A T-6 in 1969.
14. In his first 22 starts in the PGA Championship, Nicklaus finished T-6 or better 15 times. Five of those he won, and 14 times he finishes inside the top four.
15. Between 1971 and 1982, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just once in the U.S. Open.
16. Nicklaus is the only player to win the Players three times, all three coming within the first five years of the tournament's inception, though none of these wins came at TPC Sawgrass.
17. Nicklaus won five of the first eight senior major championships he played in. He finished in the top 10 in 20 of his first 22, and had top-four finishes 15 times.
18. Nicklaus and Tiger Woods are the only two players to achieve three career grand slams.
Yes, I understand that Jack Nicklaus has called Tiger Woods the greatest golfer of all time, and perhaps in terms of ability, he is. But I like the old saying: “The proof is in the pudding.” And the proof in the majors seems pretty clear to me, because Jack Nicklaus has more victories, and vastly more seconds, thirds and top-tens than Tiger. Tiger may have had more ability, but the Golden Bear did more with his opportunities. He had better results. And in his prime Nicklaus was facing all-time great golfers in Billy Casper, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Lee Trevino and Tom Watson.
slatten49 wrote:
A break from politics...
I don’t think there’s a foregone conclusion that Tiger Woods is already the golf GOAT. I still have Jack Nicklaus as the solid number one. And I doubt Tiger can ever surpass him. Here’s why:
All the great golfers focus on the majors, so the best measuring rod of true greatness is obviously the majors.
Just to win one major is a tremendous achievement, and a single victory in a major instantly elevates the winner to a higher level, esteem-wise. For instance, it took Phil Mickelson longer than expected to win his first major. The way Mickelson was evaluated before he won his first major (i.e., as an under-performer and “the best golfer never to have won a major”), and the way he has been evaluated since (i.e., as the second-best golfer of his era and one of the all-time greats), demonstrates the utmost importance of the majors. Really, for the elite golfers, it’s the only measuring rod. Another “for instance”: Greg Norman was the dominant golfer of his era, but he fell short in multiple tightly contested majors. As a result, almost no one has Norman in the upper echelons, where he would undoubtedly be close to Mickelson if he had won more majors. Having established the critical importance of the majors, let’s now look at the majors, objectively …
Jack Nicklaus is number one in majors won, with 18. Tiger Woods is second, with 15. Nicklaus is also first in second-place finishes at majors, with 19. That is another tremendous achievement. Seven of those second-place finishes came at the British Open, which doesn’t suit most American golfers as much as the other majors. Tiger Woods had only six second-place finishes. This means the Golden Bear finished first or second 37 times, to 21 times by Tiger. That is a substantial difference, and gives a clear advantage to Nicklaus. Nicklaus finished third in majors nine times to Tiger’s four. This means Nicklaus finished in the top three 46 times, to Tiger’s 25, or almost double. Nicklaus had 56 top five finishes in the majors, to 33 by Tiger. Advantage to Nicklaus yet again. Once again, close to double. Jack is also the runaway winner in top-ten finishes in the majors with a staggering 73. Tiger has 41 top-ten finishes, a bit more than half as many.
Overall, I think Nicklaus is the clear winner in the majors, and is thus the golf GOAT. And I think he did it against tougher top-line competition: Billy Casper, Gary Player, Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, and Tom Watson. Nicklaus' main competitors won 29% percent the majors in Nicklaus's prime years. Tiger Woods' main competitors have been Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els, Retief Goosen, Vijay Singh, and Jim Furyk. Honestly, I don’t think it’s all that close. Yes, Tiger probably faced deeper competition, but in the majors the cream rises to the top. And the cream was simply better in Nicklaus’s prime.
I have Jack Nicklaus as the clear number one golfer of all time, and the golf GOAT, due to his complete dominance of the majors compared to all other golfers, with Tiger a not-so-close second. The following are interesting facts about Jack Nicklaus from Golf Digest:
1. From 1970 to 1979, Nicklaus' worst finish at the Masters was eighth.
2. In 1998, at age 58, Nicklaus shot the lowest final round (68) for a senior in Masters history. He finished T-6, also setting the record for lowest total score for a senior.
3. In 44 majors from 1970-1980, Nicklaus missed ONE cut. In that span he finished inside the top 10 38 times, and 30 of those were in the top five. He won 10 of those times.
4. At the 1965 Masters, Nicklaus played the front nine in 12 under for the week, which is tied for the all-time record. He won his second green jacket that year by nine shots over Arnold Palmer.
5. Nicklaus holds the record for most top-10 finishes at Augusta with 22, as well as cuts made, with 37. He also holds the record for wins with six, and runner-up finishes with four.
6. As an amateur, Nicklaus finished inside the top 10 three times in major championships, including a solo second at the 1960 U.S. Open and a T-4 at the 1961 U.S. Open. The following year he won the event for his first major title, beating Arnold Palmer in a playoff at Oakmont.
7. Nicklaus has 19 runner-up finishes in majors, and five of those came in a playoff or by one stroke. Three of those times he was edged out by Lee Trevino, who beat him in the 1971 U.S. Open in a playoff, then beat him by one stroke at the 1972 Open Championship and 1974 PGA Championship.
8. For his career, Nicklaus has 68 finishes of seventh or better at majors.
9. From the 1970 Open Championship to the 1978 Open Championship, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just twice in majors.
10. Nicklaus made the cut in 39 straight majors from the 1969 Masters to the 1978 Open Championship. Tiger Woods matched that streak with his run from the 1996 U.S. Open to the 2006 Masters.
11. From the 1973 Masters to the 1976 Masters, Nicklaus had 13 straight top-10 finishes in majors.
12. In his 50s, Nicklaus made nine starts in the Masters and missed the cut only once. Twice he finished sixth, and he finished no worse than T-42 in his other six trips to Augusta as a senior.
13. Nicklaus' worst finish in the Open Championship between 1966 and 1980? A T-6 in 1969.
14. In his first 22 starts in the PGA Championship, Nicklaus finished T-6 or better 15 times. Five of those he won, and 14 times he finishes inside the top four.
15. Between 1971 and 1982, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just once in the U.S. Open.
16. Nicklaus is the only player to win the Players three times, all three coming within the first five years of the tournament's inception, though none of these wins came at TPC Sawgrass.
17. Nicklaus won five of the first eight senior major championships he played in. He finished in the top 10 in 20 of his first 22, and had top-four finishes 15 times.
18. Nicklaus and Tiger Woods are the only two players to achieve three career grand slams.
Yes, I understand that Jack Nicklaus has called Tiger Woods the greatest golfer of all time, and perhaps in terms of ability, he is. But I like the old saying: “The proof is in the pudding.” And the proof in the majors seems pretty clear to me, because Jack Nicklaus has more victories, and vastly more seconds, thirds and top-tens than Tiger. Tiger may have had more ability, but the Golden Bear did more with his opportunities. He had better results. And in his prime Nicklaus was facing all-time great golfers in Billy Casper, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Lee Trevino and Tom Watson.
A break from politics... br br I don’t think ther... (
show quote)
I have a set of clubs but I have not played in years-- I once got onto the green in one stroke--my best day. My brother made a hole in one and one of the guys with us had to brag about it.-- The old duffers in the club house pointed to a sign- All Holes in One buy a Round-- we had some deep pockets that day LOL
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
I have a set of clubs but I have not played in yea... (
show quote)
Damn
Too bad I wasn't there to help celebrate the occasion.
slatten49 wrote:
A break from politics...
I don’t think there’s a foregone conclusion that Tiger Woods is already the golf GOAT. I still have Jack Nicklaus as the solid number one. And I doubt Tiger can ever surpass him. Here’s why:
All the great golfers focus on the majors, so the best measuring rod of true greatness is obviously the majors.
Just to win one major is a tremendous achievement, and a single victory in a major instantly elevates the winner to a higher level, esteem-wise. For instance, it took Phil Mickelson longer than expected to win his first major. The way Mickelson was evaluated before he won his first major (i.e., as an under-performer and “the best golfer never to have won a major”), and the way he has been evaluated since (i.e., as the second-best golfer of his era and one of the all-time greats), demonstrates the utmost importance of the majors. Really, for the elite golfers, it’s the only measuring rod. Another “for instance”: Greg Norman was the dominant golfer of his era, but he fell short in multiple tightly contested majors. As a result, almost no one has Norman in the upper echelons, where he would undoubtedly be close to Mickelson if he had won more majors. Having established the critical importance of the majors, let’s now look at the majors, objectively …
Jack Nicklaus is number one in majors won, with 18. Tiger Woods is second, with 15. Nicklaus is also first in second-place finishes at majors, with 19. That is another tremendous achievement. Seven of those second-place finishes came at the British Open, which doesn’t suit most American golfers as much as the other majors. Tiger Woods had only six second-place finishes. This means the Golden Bear finished first or second 37 times, to 21 times by Tiger. That is a substantial difference, and gives a clear advantage to Nicklaus. Nicklaus finished third in majors nine times to Tiger’s four. This means Nicklaus finished in the top three 46 times, to Tiger’s 25, or almost double. Nicklaus had 56 top five finishes in the majors, to 33 by Tiger. Advantage to Nicklaus yet again. Once again, close to double. Jack is also the runaway winner in top-ten finishes in the majors with a staggering 73. Tiger has 41 top-ten finishes, a bit more than half as many.
Overall, I think Nicklaus is the clear winner in the majors, and is thus the golf GOAT. And I think he did it against tougher top-line competition: Billy Casper, Gary Player, Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, and Tom Watson. Nicklaus' main competitors won 29% percent the majors in Nicklaus's prime years. Tiger Woods' main competitors have been Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els, Retief Goosen, Vijay Singh, and Jim Furyk. Honestly, I don’t think it’s all that close. Yes, Tiger probably faced deeper competition, but in the majors the cream rises to the top. And the cream was simply better in Nicklaus’s prime.
I have Jack Nicklaus as the clear number one golfer of all time, and the golf GOAT, due to his complete dominance of the majors compared to all other golfers, with Tiger a not-so-close second. The following are interesting facts about Jack Nicklaus from Golf Digest:
1. From 1970 to 1979, Nicklaus' worst finish at the Masters was eighth.
2. In 1998, at age 58, Nicklaus shot the lowest final round (68) for a senior in Masters history. He finished T-6, also setting the record for lowest total score for a senior.
3. In 44 majors from 1970-1980, Nicklaus missed ONE cut. In that span he finished inside the top 10 38 times, and 30 of those were in the top five. He won 10 of those times.
4. At the 1965 Masters, Nicklaus played the front nine in 12 under for the week, which is tied for the all-time record. He won his second green jacket that year by nine shots over Arnold Palmer.
5. Nicklaus holds the record for most top-10 finishes at Augusta with 22, as well as cuts made, with 37. He also holds the record for wins with six, and runner-up finishes with four.
6. As an amateur, Nicklaus finished inside the top 10 three times in major championships, including a solo second at the 1960 U.S. Open and a T-4 at the 1961 U.S. Open. The following year he won the event for his first major title, beating Arnold Palmer in a playoff at Oakmont.
7. Nicklaus has 19 runner-up finishes in majors, and five of those came in a playoff or by one stroke. Three of those times he was edged out by Lee Trevino, who beat him in the 1971 U.S. Open in a playoff, then beat him by one stroke at the 1972 Open Championship and 1974 PGA Championship.
8. For his career, Nicklaus has 68 finishes of seventh or better at majors.
9. From the 1970 Open Championship to the 1978 Open Championship, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just twice in majors.
10. Nicklaus made the cut in 39 straight majors from the 1969 Masters to the 1978 Open Championship. Tiger Woods matched that streak with his run from the 1996 U.S. Open to the 2006 Masters.
11. From the 1973 Masters to the 1976 Masters, Nicklaus had 13 straight top-10 finishes in majors.
12. In his 50s, Nicklaus made nine starts in the Masters and missed the cut only once. Twice he finished sixth, and he finished no worse than T-42 in his other six trips to Augusta as a senior.
13. Nicklaus' worst finish in the Open Championship between 1966 and 1980? A T-6 in 1969.
14. In his first 22 starts in the PGA Championship, Nicklaus finished T-6 or better 15 times. Five of those he won, and 14 times he finishes inside the top four.
15. Between 1971 and 1982, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just once in the U.S. Open.
16. Nicklaus is the only player to win the Players three times, all three coming within the first five years of the tournament's inception, though none of these wins came at TPC Sawgrass.
17. Nicklaus won five of the first eight senior major championships he played in. He finished in the top 10 in 20 of his first 22, and had top-four finishes 15 times.
18. Nicklaus and Tiger Woods are the only two players to achieve three career grand slams.
Yes, I understand that Jack Nicklaus has called Tiger Woods the greatest golfer of all time, and perhaps in terms of ability, he is. But I like the old saying: “The proof is in the pudding.” And the proof in the majors seems pretty clear to me, because Jack Nicklaus has more victories, and vastly more seconds, thirds and top-tens than Tiger. Tiger may have had more ability, but the Golden Bear did more with his opportunities. He had better results. And in his prime Nicklaus was facing all-time great golfers in Billy Casper, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Lee Trevino and Tom Watson.
A break from politics... br br I don’t think ther... (
show quote)
I always wondered why grown men would play a sport where they chase after a little white ball. That's why I liked bowling. The ball comes back to you after each shot.
And you can drink lots of beer (and you used to be able to smoke) while you play. The more beer you drink, the better you get. None of the pansy outdoors fresh-air stuff.
slatten49 wrote:
A break from politics...
I don’t think there’s a foregone conclusion that Tiger Woods is already the golf GOAT. I still have Jack Nicklaus as the solid number one. And I doubt Tiger can ever surpass him. Here’s why:
All the great golfers focus on the majors, so the best measuring rod of true greatness is obviously the majors.
Just to win one major is a tremendous achievement, and a single victory in a major instantly elevates the winner to a higher level, esteem-wise. For instance, it took Phil Mickelson longer than expected to win his first major. The way Mickelson was evaluated before he won his first major (i.e., as an under-performer and “the best golfer never to have won a major”), and the way he has been evaluated since (i.e., as the second-best golfer of his era and one of the all-time greats), demonstrates the utmost importance of the majors. Really, for the elite golfers, it’s the only measuring rod. Another “for instance”: Greg Norman was the dominant golfer of his era, but he fell short in multiple tightly contested majors. As a result, almost no one has Norman in the upper echelons, where he would undoubtedly be close to Mickelson if he had won more majors. Having established the critical importance of the majors, let’s now look at the majors, objectively …
Jack Nicklaus is number one in majors won, with 18. Tiger Woods is second, with 15. Nicklaus is also first in second-place finishes at majors, with 19. That is another tremendous achievement. Seven of those second-place finishes came at the British Open, which doesn’t suit most American golfers as much as the other majors. Tiger Woods had only six second-place finishes. This means the Golden Bear finished first or second 37 times, to 21 times by Tiger. That is a substantial difference, and gives a clear advantage to Nicklaus. Nicklaus finished third in majors nine times to Tiger’s four. This means Nicklaus finished in the top three 46 times, to Tiger’s 25, or almost double. Nicklaus had 56 top five finishes in the majors, to 33 by Tiger. Advantage to Nicklaus yet again. Once again, close to double. Jack is also the runaway winner in top-ten finishes in the majors with a staggering 73. Tiger has 41 top-ten finishes, a bit more than half as many.
Overall, I think Nicklaus is the clear winner in the majors, and is thus the golf GOAT. And I think he did it against tougher top-line competition: Billy Casper, Gary Player, Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, and Tom Watson. Nicklaus' main competitors won 29% percent the majors in Nicklaus's prime years. Tiger Woods' main competitors have been Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els, Retief Goosen, Vijay Singh, and Jim Furyk. Honestly, I don’t think it’s all that close. Yes, Tiger probably faced deeper competition, but in the majors the cream rises to the top. And the cream was simply better in Nicklaus’s prime.
I have Jack Nicklaus as the clear number one golfer of all time, and the golf GOAT, due to his complete dominance of the majors compared to all other golfers, with Tiger a not-so-close second. The following are interesting facts about Jack Nicklaus from Golf Digest:
1. From 1970 to 1979, Nicklaus' worst finish at the Masters was eighth.
2. In 1998, at age 58, Nicklaus shot the lowest final round (68) for a senior in Masters history. He finished T-6, also setting the record for lowest total score for a senior.
3. In 44 majors from 1970-1980, Nicklaus missed ONE cut. In that span he finished inside the top 10 38 times, and 30 of those were in the top five. He won 10 of those times.
4. At the 1965 Masters, Nicklaus played the front nine in 12 under for the week, which is tied for the all-time record. He won his second green jacket that year by nine shots over Arnold Palmer.
5. Nicklaus holds the record for most top-10 finishes at Augusta with 22, as well as cuts made, with 37. He also holds the record for wins with six, and runner-up finishes with four.
6. As an amateur, Nicklaus finished inside the top 10 three times in major championships, including a solo second at the 1960 U.S. Open and a T-4 at the 1961 U.S. Open. The following year he won the event for his first major title, beating Arnold Palmer in a playoff at Oakmont.
7. Nicklaus has 19 runner-up finishes in majors, and five of those came in a playoff or by one stroke. Three of those times he was edged out by Lee Trevino, who beat him in the 1971 U.S. Open in a playoff, then beat him by one stroke at the 1972 Open Championship and 1974 PGA Championship.
8. For his career, Nicklaus has 68 finishes of seventh or better at majors.
9. From the 1970 Open Championship to the 1978 Open Championship, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just twice in majors.
10. Nicklaus made the cut in 39 straight majors from the 1969 Masters to the 1978 Open Championship. Tiger Woods matched that streak with his run from the 1996 U.S. Open to the 2006 Masters.
11. From the 1973 Masters to the 1976 Masters, Nicklaus had 13 straight top-10 finishes in majors.
12. In his 50s, Nicklaus made nine starts in the Masters and missed the cut only once. Twice he finished sixth, and he finished no worse than T-42 in his other six trips to Augusta as a senior.
13. Nicklaus' worst finish in the Open Championship between 1966 and 1980? A T-6 in 1969.
14. In his first 22 starts in the PGA Championship, Nicklaus finished T-6 or better 15 times. Five of those he won, and 14 times he finishes inside the top four.
15. Between 1971 and 1982, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just once in the U.S. Open.
16. Nicklaus is the only player to win the Players three times, all three coming within the first five years of the tournament's inception, though none of these wins came at TPC Sawgrass.
17. Nicklaus won five of the first eight senior major championships he played in. He finished in the top 10 in 20 of his first 22, and had top-four finishes 15 times.
18. Nicklaus and Tiger Woods are the only two players to achieve three career grand slams.
Yes, I understand that Jack Nicklaus has called Tiger Woods the greatest golfer of all time, and perhaps in terms of ability, he is. But I like the old saying: “The proof is in the pudding.” And the proof in the majors seems pretty clear to me, because Jack Nicklaus has more victories, and vastly more seconds, thirds and top-tens than Tiger. Tiger may have had more ability, but the Golden Bear did more with his opportunities. He had better results. And in his prime Nicklaus was facing all-time great golfers in Billy Casper, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Lee Trevino and Tom Watson.
A break from politics... br br I don’t think ther... (
show quote)
I would have to agree, Slatts. My all time favorite was Arnie. I always said he was my cousin. That was a stretch because my cousin married his cousin and my brother had an old set of clubs that purportedly once belonged to Arnie. I wouldn't bet the farm on the validity of that tale but it makes for a good story. I can't wait for the Masters.
bylm1-Bernie wrote:
I would have to agree, Slatts. My all time favorite was Arnie. I always said he was my cousin. That was a stretch because my cousin married his cousin and my brother had an old set of clubs that purportedly once belonged to Arnie. I wouldn't bet the farm on the validity of that tale but it makes for a good story. I can't wait for the Masters.
With absolutelly no disrespect for Tiger, my two favorites are Arnie and Lee Trevino.
slatten49 wrote:
With absolutelly no disrespect for Tiger, my two favorites are Arnie and Lee Trevino.
Remember the story about the lady in the Mercedes stopping by Trevinos house while he was mowing the lawn and asking if he could mow her lawn?
slatten49 wrote:
A break from politics...
I don’t think there’s a foregone conclusion that Tiger Woods is already the golf GOAT. I still have Jack Nicklaus as the solid number one. And I doubt Tiger can ever surpass him. Here’s why:
All the great golfers focus on the majors, so the best measuring rod of true greatness is obviously the majors.
Just to win one major is a tremendous achievement, and a single victory in a major instantly elevates the winner to a higher level, esteem-wise. For instance, it took Phil Mickelson longer than expected to win his first major. The way Mickelson was evaluated before he won his first major (i.e., as an under-performer and “the best golfer never to have won a major”), and the way he has been evaluated since (i.e., as the second-best golfer of his era and one of the all-time greats), demonstrates the utmost importance of the majors. Really, for the elite golfers, it’s the only measuring rod. Another “for instance”: Greg Norman was the dominant golfer of his era, but he fell short in multiple tightly contested majors. As a result, almost no one has Norman in the upper echelons, where he would undoubtedly be close to Mickelson if he had won more majors. Having established the critical importance of the majors, let’s now look at the majors, objectively …
Jack Nicklaus is number one in majors won, with 18. Tiger Woods is second, with 15. Nicklaus is also first in second-place finishes at majors, with 19. That is another tremendous achievement. Seven of those second-place finishes came at the British Open, which doesn’t suit most American golfers as much as the other majors. Tiger Woods had only six second-place finishes. This means the Golden Bear finished first or second 37 times, to 21 times by Tiger. That is a substantial difference, and gives a clear advantage to Nicklaus. Nicklaus finished third in majors nine times to Tiger’s four. This means Nicklaus finished in the top three 46 times, to Tiger’s 25, or almost double. Nicklaus had 56 top five finishes in the majors, to 33 by Tiger. Advantage to Nicklaus yet again. Once again, close to double. Jack is also the runaway winner in top-ten finishes in the majors with a staggering 73. Tiger has 41 top-ten finishes, a bit more than half as many.
Overall, I think Nicklaus is the clear winner in the majors, and is thus the golf GOAT. And I think he did it against tougher top-line competition: Billy Casper, Gary Player, Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, and Tom Watson. Nicklaus' main competitors won 29% percent the majors in Nicklaus's prime years. Tiger Woods' main competitors have been Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els, Retief Goosen, Vijay Singh, and Jim Furyk. Honestly, I don’t think it’s all that close. Yes, Tiger probably faced deeper competition, but in the majors the cream rises to the top. And the cream was simply better in Nicklaus’s prime.
I have Jack Nicklaus as the clear number one golfer of all time, and the golf GOAT, due to his complete dominance of the majors compared to all other golfers, with Tiger a not-so-close second. The following are interesting facts about Jack Nicklaus from Golf Digest:
1. From 1970 to 1979, Nicklaus' worst finish at the Masters was eighth.
2. In 1998, at age 58, Nicklaus shot the lowest final round (68) for a senior in Masters history. He finished T-6, also setting the record for lowest total score for a senior.
3. In 44 majors from 1970-1980, Nicklaus missed ONE cut. In that span he finished inside the top 10 38 times, and 30 of those were in the top five. He won 10 of those times.
4. At the 1965 Masters, Nicklaus played the front nine in 12 under for the week, which is tied for the all-time record. He won his second green jacket that year by nine shots over Arnold Palmer.
5. Nicklaus holds the record for most top-10 finishes at Augusta with 22, as well as cuts made, with 37. He also holds the record for wins with six, and runner-up finishes with four.
6. As an amateur, Nicklaus finished inside the top 10 three times in major championships, including a solo second at the 1960 U.S. Open and a T-4 at the 1961 U.S. Open. The following year he won the event for his first major title, beating Arnold Palmer in a playoff at Oakmont.
7. Nicklaus has 19 runner-up finishes in majors, and five of those came in a playoff or by one stroke. Three of those times he was edged out by Lee Trevino, who beat him in the 1971 U.S. Open in a playoff, then beat him by one stroke at the 1972 Open Championship and 1974 PGA Championship.
8. For his career, Nicklaus has 68 finishes of seventh or better at majors.
9. From the 1970 Open Championship to the 1978 Open Championship, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just twice in majors.
10. Nicklaus made the cut in 39 straight majors from the 1969 Masters to the 1978 Open Championship. Tiger Woods matched that streak with his run from the 1996 U.S. Open to the 2006 Masters.
11. From the 1973 Masters to the 1976 Masters, Nicklaus had 13 straight top-10 finishes in majors.
12. In his 50s, Nicklaus made nine starts in the Masters and missed the cut only once. Twice he finished sixth, and he finished no worse than T-42 in his other six trips to Augusta as a senior.
13. Nicklaus' worst finish in the Open Championship between 1966 and 1980? A T-6 in 1969.
14. In his first 22 starts in the PGA Championship, Nicklaus finished T-6 or better 15 times. Five of those he won, and 14 times he finishes inside the top four.
15. Between 1971 and 1982, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just once in the U.S. Open.
16. Nicklaus is the only player to win the Players three times, all three coming within the first five years of the tournament's inception, though none of these wins came at TPC Sawgrass.
17. Nicklaus won five of the first eight senior major championships he played in. He finished in the top 10 in 20 of his first 22, and had top-four finishes 15 times.
18. Nicklaus and Tiger Woods are the only two players to achieve three career grand slams.
Yes, I understand that Jack Nicklaus has called Tiger Woods the greatest golfer of all time, and perhaps in terms of ability, he is. But I like the old saying: “The proof is in the pudding.” And the proof in the majors seems pretty clear to me, because Jack Nicklaus has more victories, and vastly more seconds, thirds and top-tens than Tiger. Tiger may have had more ability, but the Golden Bear did more with his opportunities. He had better results. And in his prime Nicklaus was facing all-time great golfers in Billy Casper, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Lee Trevino and Tom Watson.
A break from politics... br br I don’t think ther... (
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Jack Nicklaus IMO for one reason you stated - he faced better golfers
bylm1-Bernie wrote:
Remember the story about the lady in the Mercedes stopping by Trevinos house while he was mowing the lawn and asking if he could mow her lawn?
That is a funny story.
I also remember Arnold Palmer's wife being on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. This had to be 50 years ago so my memory isn't so great but the way I remember it went something like this;
Johnny; Do you have any little good luck ritual that you do for your husband before a big Tournament?
Mrs. Palmer: Oh yes, I kiss his balls before a tournament.
Johnny: Well I'll bet that makes his putter rise.
And then she walked off the show all in a huff.
dtucker300 wrote:
That is a funny story.
I also remember Arnold Palmer's wife being on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. This had to be 50 years ago so my memory isn't so great but the way I remember it went something like this;
Johnny; Do you have any little good luck ritual that you do for your husband before a big Tournament?
Mrs. Palmer: Oh yes, I kiss his balls before a tournament.
Johnny: Well I'll bet that makes his putter rise.
And then she walked off the show all in a huff.
img src="https://static.onepoliticalplaza.com/ima... (
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True, as I remember watching that very show.
slatten49 wrote:
A break from politics...
I don’t think there’s a foregone conclusion that Tiger Woods is already the golf GOAT. I still have Jack Nicklaus as the solid number one. And I doubt Tiger can ever surpass him. Here’s why:
All the great golfers focus on the majors, so the best measuring rod of true greatness is obviously the majors.
Just to win one major is a tremendous achievement, and a single victory in a major instantly elevates the winner to a higher level, esteem-wise. For instance, it took Phil Mickelson longer than expected to win his first major. The way Mickelson was evaluated before he won his first major (i.e., as an under-performer and “the best golfer never to have won a major”), and the way he has been evaluated since (i.e., as the second-best golfer of his era and one of the all-time greats), demonstrates the utmost importance of the majors. Really, for the elite golfers, it’s the only measuring rod. Another “for instance”: Greg Norman was the dominant golfer of his era, but he fell short in multiple tightly contested majors. As a result, almost no one has Norman in the upper echelons, where he would undoubtedly be close to Mickelson if he had won more majors. Having established the critical importance of the majors, let’s now look at the majors, objectively …
Jack Nicklaus is number one in majors won, with 18. Tiger Woods is second, with 15. Nicklaus is also first in second-place finishes at majors, with 19. That is another tremendous achievement. Seven of those second-place finishes came at the British Open, which doesn’t suit most American golfers as much as the other majors. Tiger Woods had only six second-place finishes. This means the Golden Bear finished first or second 37 times, to 21 times by Tiger. That is a substantial difference, and gives a clear advantage to Nicklaus. Nicklaus finished third in majors nine times to Tiger’s four. This means Nicklaus finished in the top three 46 times, to Tiger’s 25, or almost double. Nicklaus had 56 top five finishes in the majors, to 33 by Tiger. Advantage to Nicklaus yet again. Once again, close to double. Jack is also the runaway winner in top-ten finishes in the majors with a staggering 73. Tiger has 41 top-ten finishes, a bit more than half as many.
Overall, I think Nicklaus is the clear winner in the majors, and is thus the golf GOAT. And I think he did it against tougher top-line competition: Billy Casper, Gary Player, Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, and Tom Watson. Nicklaus' main competitors won 29% percent the majors in Nicklaus's prime years. Tiger Woods' main competitors have been Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els, Retief Goosen, Vijay Singh, and Jim Furyk. Honestly, I don’t think it’s all that close. Yes, Tiger probably faced deeper competition, but in the majors the cream rises to the top. And the cream was simply better in Nicklaus’s prime.
I have Jack Nicklaus as the clear number one golfer of all time, and the golf GOAT, due to his complete dominance of the majors compared to all other golfers, with Tiger a not-so-close second. The following are interesting facts about Jack Nicklaus from Golf Digest:
1. From 1970 to 1979, Nicklaus' worst finish at the Masters was eighth.
2. In 1998, at age 58, Nicklaus shot the lowest final round (68) for a senior in Masters history. He finished T-6, also setting the record for lowest total score for a senior.
3. In 44 majors from 1970-1980, Nicklaus missed ONE cut. In that span he finished inside the top 10 38 times, and 30 of those were in the top five. He won 10 of those times.
4. At the 1965 Masters, Nicklaus played the front nine in 12 under for the week, which is tied for the all-time record. He won his second green jacket that year by nine shots over Arnold Palmer.
5. Nicklaus holds the record for most top-10 finishes at Augusta with 22, as well as cuts made, with 37. He also holds the record for wins with six, and runner-up finishes with four.
6. As an amateur, Nicklaus finished inside the top 10 three times in major championships, including a solo second at the 1960 U.S. Open and a T-4 at the 1961 U.S. Open. The following year he won the event for his first major title, beating Arnold Palmer in a playoff at Oakmont.
7. Nicklaus has 19 runner-up finishes in majors, and five of those came in a playoff or by one stroke. Three of those times he was edged out by Lee Trevino, who beat him in the 1971 U.S. Open in a playoff, then beat him by one stroke at the 1972 Open Championship and 1974 PGA Championship.
8. For his career, Nicklaus has 68 finishes of seventh or better at majors.
9. From the 1970 Open Championship to the 1978 Open Championship, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just twice in majors.
10. Nicklaus made the cut in 39 straight majors from the 1969 Masters to the 1978 Open Championship. Tiger Woods matched that streak with his run from the 1996 U.S. Open to the 2006 Masters.
11. From the 1973 Masters to the 1976 Masters, Nicklaus had 13 straight top-10 finishes in majors.
12. In his 50s, Nicklaus made nine starts in the Masters and missed the cut only once. Twice he finished sixth, and he finished no worse than T-42 in his other six trips to Augusta as a senior.
13. Nicklaus' worst finish in the Open Championship between 1966 and 1980? A T-6 in 1969.
14. In his first 22 starts in the PGA Championship, Nicklaus finished T-6 or better 15 times. Five of those he won, and 14 times he finishes inside the top four.
15. Between 1971 and 1982, Nicklaus finished outside the top 10 just once in the U.S. Open.
16. Nicklaus is the only player to win the Players three times, all three coming within the first five years of the tournament's inception, though none of these wins came at TPC Sawgrass.
17. Nicklaus won five of the first eight senior major championships he played in. He finished in the top 10 in 20 of his first 22, and had top-four finishes 15 times.
18. Nicklaus and Tiger Woods are the only two players to achieve three career grand slams.
Yes, I understand that Jack Nicklaus has called Tiger Woods the greatest golfer of all time, and perhaps in terms of ability, he is. But I like the old saying: “The proof is in the pudding.” And the proof in the majors seems pretty clear to me, because Jack Nicklaus has more victories, and vastly more seconds, thirds and top-tens than Tiger. Tiger may have had more ability, but the Golden Bear did more with his opportunities. He had better results. And in his prime Nicklaus was facing all-time great golfers in Billy Casper, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Lee Trevino and Tom Watson.
A break from politics... br br I don’t think ther... (
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Slatts, imagine if you will how yesterday morning felt to me.. huddled up , drugged down with my brand new left knee , watching one more snow squall blow around.. In a word feeling less then super.. Meds not effective.
And then , out of nowhere comes a real golf item.. great one as well..
I agree with all the points on the two Jacks, both great golfers , but never knew it was as solid as shown in the article..
Fav golfer?? this has always changed from time to time.. but Lee near always in the top handful.. only real reason is that I met him once.. no.... not really, spent about 20 minutes easy voice range of him once in Mpls. big tournament that week, but he showed up at a public park board coarse and a group of people pointed out the minor problems of the course near our standing around.. something that if very minor modification to the angle of a small slope which seemed to catch most peoples shots and the angle of the ground made for a problem on the next shot, would let many balls bounce clear and the recovery shot much less difficult and so more happy golfers for the park system.. that is all I got but I was impressed that he put his view in the prospective of the weekend hackers..
Also great guy Mickelson with some sort of local ties, never sure what..
Been laying off for a bit.. LOL,, this is 15th day with new bionic knee.. doc would not let much of the meds I wanted, just cause it made me sick and nuts at the same time, I do have a bad history with Oxy... but had postop exam two days ago and a couple more weeks the rumor is I will be happy with my new abilities.
Well back to the busy day I am having...
Have a good day and enjoy..
Have not been reading OPP much but a few now and then.. may drop it , but I have said that many times before..
permafrost wrote:
Slatts, imagine if you will how yesterday morning felt to me.. huddled up , drugged down with my brand new left knee , watching one more snow squall blow around.. In a word feeling less then super.. Meds not effective.
And then , out of nowhere comes a real golf item.. great one as well..
I agree with all the points on the two Jacks, both great golfers , but never knew it was as solid as shown in the article..
Fav golfer?? this has always changed from time to time.. but Lee near always in the top handful.. only real reason is that I met him once.. no.... not really, spent about 20 minutes easy voice range of him once in Mpls. big tournament that week, but he showed up at a public park board coarse and a group of people pointed out the minor problems of the course near our standing around.. something that if very minor modification to the angle of a small slope which seemed to catch most peoples shots and the angle of the ground made for a problem on the next shot, would let many balls bounce clear and the recovery shot much less difficult and so more happy golfers for the park system.. that is all I got but I was impressed that he put his view in the prospective of the weekend hackers..
Also great guy Mickelson with some sort of local ties, never sure what..
Been laying off for a bit.. LOL,, this is 15th day with new bionic knee.. doc would not let much of the meds I wanted, just cause it made me sick and nuts at the same time, I do have a bad history with Oxy... but had postop exam two days ago and a couple more weeks the rumor is I will be happy with my new abilities.
Well back to the busy day I am having...
Have a good day and enjoy..
Have not been reading OPP much but a few now and then.. may drop it , but I have said that many times before..
Slatts, imagine if you will how yesterday morning ... (
show quote)
One word...Physical Therapy! Opps that's two words. Follow you doctors instructions. I have friend who did and were up an about in no time, as good as new. Those that didn't had continuing problems.
Ben Hogan. Imagine if he had the equipment the players have today.
permafrost wrote:
Slatts, imagine if you will how yesterday morning felt to me.. huddled up , drugged down with my brand new left knee , watching one more snow squall blow around.. In a word feeling less then super.. Meds not effective.
And then , out of nowhere comes a real golf item.. great one as well..
I agree with all the points on the two Jacks, both great golfers , but never knew it was as solid as shown in the article..
Fav golfer?? this has always changed from time to time.. but Lee near always in the top handful.. only real reason is that I met him once.. no.... not really, spent about 20 minutes easy voice range of him once in Mpls. big tournament that week, but he showed up at a public park board coarse and a group of people pointed out the minor problems of the course near our standing around.. something that if very minor modification to the angle of a small slope which seemed to catch most peoples shots and the angle of the ground made for a problem on the next shot, would let many balls bounce clear and the recovery shot much less difficult and so more happy golfers for the park system.. that is all I got but I was impressed that he put his view in the prospective of the weekend hackers..
Also great guy Mickelson with some sort of local ties, never sure what..
Been laying off for a bit.. LOL,, this is 15th day with new bionic knee.. doc would not let much of the meds I wanted, just cause it made me sick and nuts at the same time, I do have a bad history with Oxy... but had postop exam two days ago and a couple more weeks the rumor is I will be happy with my new abilities.
Well back to the busy day I am having...
Have a good day and enjoy..
Have not been reading OPP much but a few now and then.. may drop it , but I have said that many times before..
Slatts, imagine if you will how yesterday morning ... (
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Frosty, having not been aware of your health situation while being off the forum, your post comes as a surprise and welcome news. I can only hope and wish for you a speedy recovery.
I do have a question, though: Who is the second 'Jack' to whom you refer above
SEMPER FI, my friend
dtucker300 wrote:
One word...Physical Therapy! Opps that's two words. Follow you doctors instructions. I have friend who did and were up an about in no time, as good as new. Those that didn't had continuing problems.
Ben Hogan. Imagine if he had the equipment the players have today.
Hello Mr. tucker... nice to hear from you..
Talked to a bunch of people who had this surgery and they all said the same thing.. do the physical therapy!! only exception was one ding dong who said he had 4 knee replacements and none of them worked.. Stopped believing anything he said..
But I went with the majority and did the therapy from day one.. and it must matter.. had some problems so stopped the effort a couple days ago and can tell the difference today.. tomorrow I am back showing some discipline or else..
Yes, Ben Hogan,, I never give him the consideration he deserves... good one.. and I bet some others would also be awesome .. the current equipment truly does make an improved golfer..
Any way, thanks for the input.. Have a nice evening.. I will be back again in a few days i think so more later..
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