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Lessons from history
Jan 1, 2022 23:38:55   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
The following is an extract from Will Durant's History of Civilization, Volume III, Caesar and Christ, Chapter VI. It refers to the decline of Rome and the factors that led up to it. Much can be seen as applying to the present day.
===================================================
The causes of revolution were many, the results were endless, the personalities thrown up by the crisis, from the Gracchi to Augustus, were among the most powerful in history. Never before, and never again till our own time, were such stakes fought for, never was the world drama more intense. The first cause was the influx of s***e-grown corn from Sicily, Sardinia, Spain, and Africa, which ruined many Italian farmers by reducing the price of domestic grains below the cost of production and marketing. Second, was the influx of s***es, displacing peasants in the countryside and free workers in the towns. Third, was the growth of large farms. A law of 220 forbade senators to take contracts or invest in commerce; flush with the spoils of war, they bought up extensive tracts of agricultural land. Conquered soil was sometimes sold in small plots to colonists, and eased urban strife; more of it was given to capitalists in part payment of their war loans to the state; most of it was bought or leased by senators or businessmen on terms fixed by the Senate. To compete with these latifundia the little man had to borrow money at rates that insured his inability to pay; slowly he sank into poverty or bankruptcy, tenancy or the slums. Finally, the peasant himself, after he had seen and l**ted the world as a soldier, had no taste or patience for the lonely labor and unadventurous chores of the farm; he preferred to join the turbulent proletariat of the city, watch without cost the exciting games of the amphitheater, receive cheap corn from the government, sell his v**e to the highest bidder or promiser, and lose himself in the impoverished and indiscriminate mass.
====================================================

"The first cause was the influx of s***e-grown corn from Sicily, Sardinia, Spain, and Africa, which ruined many Italian farmers by reducing the price of domestic grains below the cost of production and marketing."
Sound familiar? Chinese and Eastern Asian products flooding the market and displacing American agriculture and manufacturing. While not exactly s***e labor, the wages and production costs are so significantly lower there that a producer here cannot compete using American labor and materials. To compound the problem, Americans have become used to inexpensive products, thanks to Walmart, Target, Amazon and other retailers that rely on cheap goods from abroad as their business model.
"Second, was the influx of s***es, displacing peasants in the countryside and free workers in the towns."
The influx of migrants from Central and South America is displacing the low end of the American labor force. In a way, Trump was right about the border wall … the American manual laborer is getting bumped from the labor market, and has no place to go, which leads to a lot of resentment against minorities. This is not confined to the manual labor market … a significant number of migrants/immigrants are taking the place of the neighborhood corner store and doing it quite well. Finding a native-born taxi driver in any large city is almost impossible, which leads to a lot of racial anxiety to the lower strata of our work force.
"Third, was the growth of large farms."
Large agribusiness has taken over the agricultural sector of the United States. There is basically a dearth of small family farms, due to the enticement of living and working in a large city for more wages for less manual labor. The migrant population, willing to work for lower wages is also contributing to the large agribusiness growth, displacing what family farms are left.
"Finally, the peasant himself, after he had seen and l**ted the world as a soldier, had no taste or patience for the lonely labor and unadventurous chores of the farm; he preferred to join the turbulent proletariat of the city, watch without cost the exciting games of the amphitheater, receive cheap corn from the government, sell his v**e to the highest bidder or promiser, and lose himself in the impoverished and indiscriminate mass. "
This applies directly to the previous quote, and does it quite succinctly. Japan has suffered a major displacement of population, where the younger population in rural areas, usually dev**ed to farming, has left for the urban environment and less taxing jobs than on the family farm. The result is that their population in the rural areas has become older and less productive, with the added problem of there being no one to care for these elders, who used to rely on the kids taking care of the parents. And Japan doesn't have a Social Security network … hence a growing problem.
Another factor (not mentioned by Durant here but is elsewhere) was the growing wealth gap in the society, which leads to resentment and agitation, once the standard of living of the middle/lower class either stagnates or declines while they see a massive accumulation of wealth at the top with ostentation prevalent. That ostentation of large estates and expensive toys and baubles leads to a lot of problems with those that are not "haves."
I am by no means advocating socialism or c*******m. Those systems, along with monarchies and dictatorships have proven to be unworkable over the long run. The former usually devolve into the latter.
What I think has to happen is that a version of capitalism that is controlled so as to the amount of wealth that can accumulate to the ultra-wealthy is restricted. After all, how much is enough? How many Maserati cars can you drive at once, or how may mansions can you live in at any one time?
Unfortunately, once the oligarchs get into power, it is difficult to displace them through any means save a revolution, violent or not. They will resist giving up their wealth by any means possible, because their entire ego structure is based on how much money and power they have. It's both how they keep score, and how they view themselves.
Given all the reasons that both Durant and I have laid out here and elsewhere, unless we find a way to corral and correct these factors in the near future, I see an autocrat such as Trump riling up the masses and causing the equivalent of the French Revolution that occurred in 1789. The result of that wasn't pretty, and led to something like over 150 different administrations in that country since that time.
In other words, all these factors combined will ultimately lead to either a peaceful change of how we govern our society, or we will see blood running in the streets of our cities (and elsewhere), and a massive upheaval. I see no other outcome.

Reply
Jan 2, 2022 02:43:06   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
whitnebrat wrote:
The following is an extract from Will Durant's History of Civilization, Volume III, Caesar and Christ, Chapter VI. It refers to the decline of Rome and the factors that led up to it. Much can be seen as applying to the present day.
===================================================
The causes of revolution were many, the results were endless, the personalities thrown up by the crisis, from the Gracchi to Augustus, were among the most powerful in history. Never before, and never again till our own time, were such stakes fought for, never was the world drama more intense. The first cause was the influx of s***e-grown corn from Sicily, Sardinia, Spain, and Africa, which ruined many Italian farmers by reducing the price of domestic grains below the cost of production and marketing. Second, was the influx of s***es, displacing peasants in the countryside and free workers in the towns. Third, was the growth of large farms. A law of 220 forbade senators to take contracts or invest in commerce; flush with the spoils of war, they bought up extensive tracts of agricultural land. Conquered soil was sometimes sold in small plots to colonists, and eased urban strife; more of it was given to capitalists in part payment of their war loans to the state; most of it was bought or leased by senators or businessmen on terms fixed by the Senate. To compete with these latifundia the little man had to borrow money at rates that insured his inability to pay; slowly he sank into poverty or bankruptcy, tenancy or the slums. Finally, the peasant himself, after he had seen and l**ted the world as a soldier, had no taste or patience for the lonely labor and unadventurous chores of the farm; he preferred to join the turbulent proletariat of the city, watch without cost the exciting games of the amphitheater, receive cheap corn from the government, sell his v**e to the highest bidder or promiser, and lose himself in the impoverished and indiscriminate mass.
====================================================

"The first cause was the influx of s***e-grown corn from Sicily, Sardinia, Spain, and Africa, which ruined many Italian farmers by reducing the price of domestic grains below the cost of production and marketing."
Sound familiar? Chinese and Eastern Asian products flooding the market and displacing American agriculture and manufacturing. While not exactly s***e labor, the wages and production costs are so significantly lower there that a producer here cannot compete using American labor and materials. To compound the problem, Americans have become used to inexpensive products, thanks to Walmart, Target, Amazon and other retailers that rely on cheap goods from abroad as their business model.
"Second, was the influx of s***es, displacing peasants in the countryside and free workers in the towns."
The influx of migrants from Central and South America is displacing the low end of the American labor force. In a way, Trump was right about the border wall … the American manual laborer is getting bumped from the labor market, and has no place to go, which leads to a lot of resentment against minorities. This is not confined to the manual labor market … a significant number of migrants/immigrants are taking the place of the neighborhood corner store and doing it quite well. Finding a native-born taxi driver in any large city is almost impossible, which leads to a lot of racial anxiety to the lower strata of our work force.
"Third, was the growth of large farms."
Large agribusiness has taken over the agricultural sector of the United States. There is basically a dearth of small family farms, due to the enticement of living and working in a large city for more wages for less manual labor. The migrant population, willing to work for lower wages is also contributing to the large agribusiness growth, displacing what family farms are left.
"Finally, the peasant himself, after he had seen and l**ted the world as a soldier, had no taste or patience for the lonely labor and unadventurous chores of the farm; he preferred to join the turbulent proletariat of the city, watch without cost the exciting games of the amphitheater, receive cheap corn from the government, sell his v**e to the highest bidder or promiser, and lose himself in the impoverished and indiscriminate mass. "
This applies directly to the previous quote, and does it quite succinctly. Japan has suffered a major displacement of population, where the younger population in rural areas, usually dev**ed to farming, has left for the urban environment and less taxing jobs than on the family farm. The result is that their population in the rural areas has become older and less productive, with the added problem of there being no one to care for these elders, who used to rely on the kids taking care of the parents. And Japan doesn't have a Social Security network … hence a growing problem.
Another factor (not mentioned by Durant here but is elsewhere) was the growing wealth gap in the society, which leads to resentment and agitation, once the standard of living of the middle/lower class either stagnates or declines while they see a massive accumulation of wealth at the top with ostentation prevalent. That ostentation of large estates and expensive toys and baubles leads to a lot of problems with those that are not "haves."
I am by no means advocating socialism or c*******m. Those systems, along with monarchies and dictatorships have proven to be unworkable over the long run. The former usually devolve into the latter.
What I think has to happen is that a version of capitalism that is controlled so as to the amount of wealth that can accumulate to the ultra-wealthy is restricted. After all, how much is enough? How many Maserati cars can you drive at once, or how may mansions can you live in at any one time?
Unfortunately, once the oligarchs get into power, it is difficult to displace them through any means save a revolution, violent or not. They will resist giving up their wealth by any means possible, because their entire ego structure is based on how much money and power they have. It's both how they keep score, and how they view themselves.
Given all the reasons that both Durant and I have laid out here and elsewhere, unless we find a way to corral and correct these factors in the near future, I see an autocrat such as Trump riling up the masses and causing the equivalent of the French Revolution that occurred in 1789. The result of that wasn't pretty, and led to something like over 150 different administrations in that country since that time.
In other words, all these factors combined will ultimately lead to either a peaceful change of how we govern our society, or we will see blood running in the streets of our cities (and elsewhere), and a massive upheaval. I see no other outcome.
The following is an extract from Will Durant's His... (show quote)


Nice read... Thanks for posting it..

Reply
Jan 2, 2022 18:32:21   #
Bassman65
 
whitnebrat wrote:
The following is an extract from Will Durant's History of Civilization, Volume III, Caesar and Christ, Chapter VI. It refers to the decline of Rome and the factors that led up to it. Much can be seen as applying to the present day.
===================================================
The causes of revolution were many, the results were endless, the personalities thrown up by the crisis, from the Gracchi to Augustus, were among the most powerful in history. Never before, and never again till our own time, were such stakes fought for, never was the world drama more intense. The first cause was the influx of s***e-grown corn from Sicily, Sardinia, Spain, and Africa, which ruined many Italian farmers by reducing the price of domestic grains below the cost of production and marketing. Second, was the influx of s***es, displacing peasants in the countryside and free workers in the towns. Third, was the growth of large farms. A law of 220 forbade senators to take contracts or invest in commerce; flush with the spoils of war, they bought up extensive tracts of agricultural land. Conquered soil was sometimes sold in small plots to colonists, and eased urban strife; more of it was given to capitalists in part payment of their war loans to the state; most of it was bought or leased by senators or businessmen on terms fixed by the Senate. To compete with these latifundia the little man had to borrow money at rates that insured his inability to pay; slowly he sank into poverty or bankruptcy, tenancy or the slums. Finally, the peasant himself, after he had seen and l**ted the world as a soldier, had no taste or patience for the lonely labor and unadventurous chores of the farm; he preferred to join the turbulent proletariat of the city, watch without cost the exciting games of the amphitheater, receive cheap corn from the government, sell his v**e to the highest bidder or promiser, and lose himself in the impoverished and indiscriminate mass.
====================================================

"The first cause was the influx of s***e-grown corn from Sicily, Sardinia, Spain, and Africa, which ruined many Italian farmers by reducing the price of domestic grains below the cost of production and marketing."
Sound familiar? Chinese and Eastern Asian products flooding the market and displacing American agriculture and manufacturing. While not exactly s***e labor, the wages and production costs are so significantly lower there that a producer here cannot compete using American labor and materials. To compound the problem, Americans have become used to inexpensive products, thanks to Walmart, Target, Amazon and other retailers that rely on cheap goods from abroad as their business model.
"Second, was the influx of s***es, displacing peasants in the countryside and free workers in the towns."
The influx of migrants from Central and South America is displacing the low end of the American labor force. In a way, Trump was right about the border wall … the American manual laborer is getting bumped from the labor market, and has no place to go, which leads to a lot of resentment against minorities. This is not confined to the manual labor market … a significant number of migrants/immigrants are taking the place of the neighborhood corner store and doing it quite well. Finding a native-born taxi driver in any large city is almost impossible, which leads to a lot of racial anxiety to the lower strata of our work force.
"Third, was the growth of large farms."
Large agribusiness has taken over the agricultural sector of the United States. There is basically a dearth of small family farms, due to the enticement of living and working in a large city for more wages for less manual labor. The migrant population, willing to work for lower wages is also contributing to the large agribusiness growth, displacing what family farms are left.
"Finally, the peasant himself, after he had seen and l**ted the world as a soldier, had no taste or patience for the lonely labor and unadventurous chores of the farm; he preferred to join the turbulent proletariat of the city, watch without cost the exciting games of the amphitheater, receive cheap corn from the government, sell his v**e to the highest bidder or promiser, and lose himself in the impoverished and indiscriminate mass. "
This applies directly to the previous quote, and does it quite succinctly. Japan has suffered a major displacement of population, where the younger population in rural areas, usually dev**ed to farming, has left for the urban environment and less taxing jobs than on the family farm. The result is that their population in the rural areas has become older and less productive, with the added problem of there being no one to care for these elders, who used to rely on the kids taking care of the parents. And Japan doesn't have a Social Security network … hence a growing problem.
Another factor (not mentioned by Durant here but is elsewhere) was the growing wealth gap in the society, which leads to resentment and agitation, once the standard of living of the middle/lower class either stagnates or declines while they see a massive accumulation of wealth at the top with ostentation prevalent. That ostentation of large estates and expensive toys and baubles leads to a lot of problems with those that are not "haves."
I am by no means advocating socialism or c*******m. Those systems, along with monarchies and dictatorships have proven to be unworkable over the long run. The former usually devolve into the latter.
What I think has to happen is that a version of capitalism that is controlled so as to the amount of wealth that can accumulate to the ultra-wealthy is restricted. After all, how much is enough? How many Maserati cars can you drive at once, or how may mansions can you live in at any one time?
Unfortunately, once the oligarchs get into power, it is difficult to displace them through any means save a revolution, violent or not. They will resist giving up their wealth by any means possible, because their entire ego structure is based on how much money and power they have. It's both how they keep score, and how they view themselves.
Given all the reasons that both Durant and I have laid out here and elsewhere, unless we find a way to corral and correct these factors in the near future, I see an autocrat such as Trump riling up the masses and causing the equivalent of the French Revolution that occurred in 1789. The result of that wasn't pretty, and led to something like over 150 different administrations in that country since that time.
In other words, all these factors combined will ultimately lead to either a peaceful change of how we govern our society, or we will see blood running in the streets of our cities (and elsewhere), and a massive upheaval. I see no other outcome.
The following is an extract from Will Durant's His... (show quote)

Interesting post.

Reply
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