Giuliani, Powell, and Lindell facing trouble
Aug 13, 2021 10:40:58 #
slatten49
Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
Dahlia Lithwick
On Wednesday, a Trump-appointed judge spanked three Trump boosters for spreading Trump’s lies in a ruling that could cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. District Judge Carl J. Nichols crafted a blistering opinion allowing three defamation lawsuits filed by D******n V****g Systems against MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell and Trump’s lawyers, Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani, to move forward to trial.
Nichols’ opinion sets forth the false claims peddled by each of the three defendants, then picks apart the evidence they used to support it. The resulting decision—which suggests that D******n might satisfy even the high bar set for defamation claims from public figures about political contests—is a beatdown. It was a small wonder on Thursday that Alan Dershowitz, appearing at Lindell’s MyPillow Symposium, denounced the D******n suit as the “new McCarthyism.” If you are not free to lie brazenly about everything, always, causing untold financial and institutional ruin, what liberty can possibly remain?
Judge Nichols’s work represents the kind of tedious fact-checking and exacting scrutiny for which courts are still better suited than almost any other entity; not just connecting virulent lies to their consequences, but also affixing a dollar amount to both. As George Conway pointed out on Twitter, the damages may well be both massive and provable, given that some states will not buy D******n v****g systems as a result of the Big Lie that Lindell, Giuliani, and Powell continue to peddle. D******n filed additional suits on Tuesday against Newsmax and One America News Network, alleging they also helped to spread baseless conspiracy theories about the company’s role in the 2020 e******n. While these cases, and a similar one against Fox News, deal with different First Amendment questions, Judge Nichols’ ruling cannot bode well for these big media purveyors of the big lie.
In his refusal to dismiss the cases against Powell, Giuliani, and Lindell, Judge Nichols sticks to the facts, although some of his facts are on their face hilarious. A footnote, either deliberately or not points out that “MyPillow appears to […] argue that the First Amendment grants some kind of blanket protection to statements about ‘public debate in a public forum.’” (Pillow-blanket, get it?). He details, exhaustively, the fictions pressed by all three defendants, in the heat of the post-e******n uncertainty and confusion:
On November 12, Giuliani appeared on Fox Business’s Lou Dobbs Tonight and stated that D******n is owned by a company called Smartmatic, which Giuliani claimed was formed “by three Venezuelans” “in order to fix e******ns.” Powell was a guest on the show the next day; she stated that she could “hardly wait to put forth all the evidence we’ve collected on D******n, starting with the fact it was created to produce altered v****g results in Venezuela for Hugo Chávez and then shipped internationally to manipulate v**es for purchase in other countries[,] including this one.”
No such evidence was ever produced. Nichols cites a Powell statement from Nov. 23, again insisting that D******n had stolen Trump v**es “by massive e******n f***d” and that she was collecting “overwhelming” “evidence” that D******n “shifted millions of v**es from President Trump.” She also claimed that D******n was “founded by foreign oligarchs and dictators to ensure computerized b****t-stuffing and v**e manipulation to wh**ever level was needed to make certain Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chávez never lost another e******n.” Nichols also quotes Lindell from a Dec. 3 appearance on America First with Sebastian Gorka to say that he and Powell were “getting the word out on this e******n f***d” and that they were targeting “D******n machines.” Nichols’s ruling is deliberate at pointing out the financial benefit each party gained from these destructive lies: Lindell, for instance, told America First viewers that the “president loves” MyPillow and informed them they could conveniently use promotional code “Gorka” for a discount at MyPillow.com. Nichols further noted that Lindell’s two-hour documentary called “ABSOLUTE PROOF,” broadcast on multiple news outlets and posted online, amplified the same lies and was featured on Lindell’s website above “a MyPillow ad encouraging viewers to use the promotional code ‘PROOF’ to receive forty percent off a MyPillow product.”
D******n provides the e******n equipment used by 40 percent of U.S. v**ers, and Nichols quotes the company’s pleadings to point out that the defendants’ conduct allegedly caused (1) D******n employees to be “stalked, … harassed, and … receive death threats,” requiring D******n to expend money “to remedy the defamation and to protect the lives of its employees,” and (2) harm in the form of lost profits and damage to the company’s name, reputation, and goodwill.
After laying out the alleged harms, Judge Nichols then addresses the defendants’ efforts to dismiss the suits. He starts with Powell, who claims that “no reasonable person could conclude that her statements were statements of fact because they ‘concern the 2020 p**********l e******n, which was both bitter and controversial,’” finding that “there is no blanket immunity for statements that are ‘political’ in nature.” He rejects Powell’s claim that her statements were protected commentary about a lawsuit, and determines that what she was asserting could surely be knowable falsehoods:
The question, then, is whether a reasonable juror could conclude that Powell’s statements expressed or implied a verifiably false fact about D******n. … This is not a close call. To take one example, Powell has stated publicly that she has “evidence from [the] mouth of the guy who founded D******n admit[ting that] he can change a million v**es, no problem at all.” She told audiences that she would “tweet out the video.” These statements are either true or not; either Powell has a video depicting the founder of D******n saying he can “change a million v**es,” or she does not.
Time and time again he rejects Powell’s boilerplate “people are saying…” or “the evidence I have amassed will show…” defenses, as provably circular or potentially provably false.
Nichols also finds that a jury could well conclude Powell acted with “actual malice”—that is with knowledge that her statements were false or with reckless disregard of whether they were false or not, because the supposed evidence she relied on in her pleadings were affidavits she may have helped draft, cherrypicked evidence, and purported proof she has never actually produced. Nichols is pitiless in his examination of her experts, who include, according to D******n one who publicly claimed that George Soros, President George H.W. Bush’s father, the Muslim Brotherhood, and “l*****ts” helped form the “Deep State” in N**i Germany in the 1930s—which would have been a remarkable feat for Soros, who was born in 1930.
Judge Nichols finds that a reasonable jury could conclude that Powell had a reason to do all this: “to raise funds, to raise her public profile, and to curry favor with President Trump.” As he points out:
D******n alleges that Powell repeatedly solicited donations to her law firm and [her organization Defending the Republic, Inc.] while making her claims, that President Trump pardoned her client, Michael Flynn, on the same day she filed her first lawsuit challenging the results of the 2020 e******n, and that in November 2020, “someone purchased the web domain sidneypowellforpresident.com.”
As was the case last month in Michigan, when a different judge similarly put the Kraken lawyers through their paces as they insisted that they relished the chance to finally prove their fantastical theories in court, Powell, Giuliani, and Lindell have said for months now that all they ever wanted was their day in court to prove D******n’s evil plan. As Yahoo News reported, when D******n filed the suit in January, Giuliani said the lawsuit would “allow me to investigate [D******n’s] history, finances, and practices fully and completely.” Lindell went so far as to say that he wanted to be sued by D******n so he could prove his claims at trial. As Judge Nichols recites, “on January 18, having received a retraction letter from D******n, Mike Lindell repeated his claim that D******n machines ‘were built to c***t’ and ‘steal e******ns,’ and he ‘welcomed D******n to come after him because he had all the evidence and then they’ll finally see it.’”
Judge Nichols just granted him his wish.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/rudy-giuliani-sidney-powell-and-the-mypillow-guy-are-in-huge-trouble/ar-AANfBon
On Wednesday, a Trump-appointed judge spanked three Trump boosters for spreading Trump’s lies in a ruling that could cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. District Judge Carl J. Nichols crafted a blistering opinion allowing three defamation lawsuits filed by D******n V****g Systems against MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell and Trump’s lawyers, Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani, to move forward to trial.
Nichols’ opinion sets forth the false claims peddled by each of the three defendants, then picks apart the evidence they used to support it. The resulting decision—which suggests that D******n might satisfy even the high bar set for defamation claims from public figures about political contests—is a beatdown. It was a small wonder on Thursday that Alan Dershowitz, appearing at Lindell’s MyPillow Symposium, denounced the D******n suit as the “new McCarthyism.” If you are not free to lie brazenly about everything, always, causing untold financial and institutional ruin, what liberty can possibly remain?
Judge Nichols’s work represents the kind of tedious fact-checking and exacting scrutiny for which courts are still better suited than almost any other entity; not just connecting virulent lies to their consequences, but also affixing a dollar amount to both. As George Conway pointed out on Twitter, the damages may well be both massive and provable, given that some states will not buy D******n v****g systems as a result of the Big Lie that Lindell, Giuliani, and Powell continue to peddle. D******n filed additional suits on Tuesday against Newsmax and One America News Network, alleging they also helped to spread baseless conspiracy theories about the company’s role in the 2020 e******n. While these cases, and a similar one against Fox News, deal with different First Amendment questions, Judge Nichols’ ruling cannot bode well for these big media purveyors of the big lie.
In his refusal to dismiss the cases against Powell, Giuliani, and Lindell, Judge Nichols sticks to the facts, although some of his facts are on their face hilarious. A footnote, either deliberately or not points out that “MyPillow appears to […] argue that the First Amendment grants some kind of blanket protection to statements about ‘public debate in a public forum.’” (Pillow-blanket, get it?). He details, exhaustively, the fictions pressed by all three defendants, in the heat of the post-e******n uncertainty and confusion:
On November 12, Giuliani appeared on Fox Business’s Lou Dobbs Tonight and stated that D******n is owned by a company called Smartmatic, which Giuliani claimed was formed “by three Venezuelans” “in order to fix e******ns.” Powell was a guest on the show the next day; she stated that she could “hardly wait to put forth all the evidence we’ve collected on D******n, starting with the fact it was created to produce altered v****g results in Venezuela for Hugo Chávez and then shipped internationally to manipulate v**es for purchase in other countries[,] including this one.”
No such evidence was ever produced. Nichols cites a Powell statement from Nov. 23, again insisting that D******n had stolen Trump v**es “by massive e******n f***d” and that she was collecting “overwhelming” “evidence” that D******n “shifted millions of v**es from President Trump.” She also claimed that D******n was “founded by foreign oligarchs and dictators to ensure computerized b****t-stuffing and v**e manipulation to wh**ever level was needed to make certain Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chávez never lost another e******n.” Nichols also quotes Lindell from a Dec. 3 appearance on America First with Sebastian Gorka to say that he and Powell were “getting the word out on this e******n f***d” and that they were targeting “D******n machines.” Nichols’s ruling is deliberate at pointing out the financial benefit each party gained from these destructive lies: Lindell, for instance, told America First viewers that the “president loves” MyPillow and informed them they could conveniently use promotional code “Gorka” for a discount at MyPillow.com. Nichols further noted that Lindell’s two-hour documentary called “ABSOLUTE PROOF,” broadcast on multiple news outlets and posted online, amplified the same lies and was featured on Lindell’s website above “a MyPillow ad encouraging viewers to use the promotional code ‘PROOF’ to receive forty percent off a MyPillow product.”
D******n provides the e******n equipment used by 40 percent of U.S. v**ers, and Nichols quotes the company’s pleadings to point out that the defendants’ conduct allegedly caused (1) D******n employees to be “stalked, … harassed, and … receive death threats,” requiring D******n to expend money “to remedy the defamation and to protect the lives of its employees,” and (2) harm in the form of lost profits and damage to the company’s name, reputation, and goodwill.
After laying out the alleged harms, Judge Nichols then addresses the defendants’ efforts to dismiss the suits. He starts with Powell, who claims that “no reasonable person could conclude that her statements were statements of fact because they ‘concern the 2020 p**********l e******n, which was both bitter and controversial,’” finding that “there is no blanket immunity for statements that are ‘political’ in nature.” He rejects Powell’s claim that her statements were protected commentary about a lawsuit, and determines that what she was asserting could surely be knowable falsehoods:
The question, then, is whether a reasonable juror could conclude that Powell’s statements expressed or implied a verifiably false fact about D******n. … This is not a close call. To take one example, Powell has stated publicly that she has “evidence from [the] mouth of the guy who founded D******n admit[ting that] he can change a million v**es, no problem at all.” She told audiences that she would “tweet out the video.” These statements are either true or not; either Powell has a video depicting the founder of D******n saying he can “change a million v**es,” or she does not.
Time and time again he rejects Powell’s boilerplate “people are saying…” or “the evidence I have amassed will show…” defenses, as provably circular or potentially provably false.
Nichols also finds that a jury could well conclude Powell acted with “actual malice”—that is with knowledge that her statements were false or with reckless disregard of whether they were false or not, because the supposed evidence she relied on in her pleadings were affidavits she may have helped draft, cherrypicked evidence, and purported proof she has never actually produced. Nichols is pitiless in his examination of her experts, who include, according to D******n one who publicly claimed that George Soros, President George H.W. Bush’s father, the Muslim Brotherhood, and “l*****ts” helped form the “Deep State” in N**i Germany in the 1930s—which would have been a remarkable feat for Soros, who was born in 1930.
Judge Nichols finds that a reasonable jury could conclude that Powell had a reason to do all this: “to raise funds, to raise her public profile, and to curry favor with President Trump.” As he points out:
D******n alleges that Powell repeatedly solicited donations to her law firm and [her organization Defending the Republic, Inc.] while making her claims, that President Trump pardoned her client, Michael Flynn, on the same day she filed her first lawsuit challenging the results of the 2020 e******n, and that in November 2020, “someone purchased the web domain sidneypowellforpresident.com.”
As was the case last month in Michigan, when a different judge similarly put the Kraken lawyers through their paces as they insisted that they relished the chance to finally prove their fantastical theories in court, Powell, Giuliani, and Lindell have said for months now that all they ever wanted was their day in court to prove D******n’s evil plan. As Yahoo News reported, when D******n filed the suit in January, Giuliani said the lawsuit would “allow me to investigate [D******n’s] history, finances, and practices fully and completely.” Lindell went so far as to say that he wanted to be sued by D******n so he could prove his claims at trial. As Judge Nichols recites, “on January 18, having received a retraction letter from D******n, Mike Lindell repeated his claim that D******n machines ‘were built to c***t’ and ‘steal e******ns,’ and he ‘welcomed D******n to come after him because he had all the evidence and then they’ll finally see it.’”
Judge Nichols just granted him his wish.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/rudy-giuliani-sidney-powell-and-the-mypillow-guy-are-in-huge-trouble/ar-AANfBon
Aug 13, 2021 11:30:01 #
slatten49 wrote:
Dahlia Lithwick br br On Wednesday, a Trump-app... (show quote)
Lindell, Powell and Guiliani should have their passports confiscated immediately.
Aug 13, 2021 12:41:36 #
nwtk2007
Loc: Texas
slatten49 wrote:
Dahlia Lithwick br br On Wednesday, a Trump-app... (show quote)
"If you are not free to lie brazenly about everything, always, causing untold financial and institutional ruin, what liberty can possibly remain?"
Given how the "free press" has been touting lie after lie, I think this entire post is a bit hypocritical.
The press drove millions away from alternative treatments like hydroxychloroquine which is now proven to increase survivability of those with C***d by as much as a five fold increase. How many thousands have died because of that irresponsible reporting and shutting down those doctors who shared their success with these alternative treatments? Look at how the media protects Cuomo from the murders he committed by ordering C***d patients into nursing homes where the most vulnerable live!!!
So, that being said, D******n will have to demonstrate harm to D******n as a result of the "slander." What harm did they suffer????
Aug 13, 2021 14:39:10 #
nwtk2007 wrote:
The press drove millions away from alternative treatments like hydroxychloroquine which is now proven to increase survivability of those with C***d by as much as a five fold increase.
The press drove millions away from alternative treatments like hydroxychloroquine which is now proven to increase survivability of those with C***d by as much as a five fold increase.
Uh-huh. “Proven” by what quack doctors?
Quote:
So, that being said, D******n will have to demonstrate harm to D******n as a result of the "slander." What harm did they suffer????
A federal judge said the lawsuits can go ahead, so he must think D******n has valid cases.
Aug 13, 2021 15:34:17 #
nwtk2007
Loc: Texas
kemmer wrote:
A federal judge said the lawsuits can go ahead, so he must think D******n has valid cases.
http://www.kusi.com/medrxiv-study-hydroxychloroquine-and-zinc-treatments-increased-c***d-survival-rate-by-almost-three-times/
Maybe he does or maybe he doesn't. Maybe he figures D******n should have the chance to show how they were injured by the claims. Should be interesting.
Aug 13, 2021 17:43:56 #
nwtk2007 wrote:
http://www.kusi.com/medrxiv-study-hydroxychloroquine-and-zinc-treatments-increased-c***d-survival-rate-by-almost-three-times/
Maybe he does or maybe he doesn't. Maybe he figures D******n should have the chance to show how they were injured by the claims. Should be interesting.
Maybe he does or maybe he doesn't. Maybe he figures D******n should have the chance to show how they were injured by the claims. Should be interesting.
A look at your link and the study.. did not look yet for other info..
but this line in the study summery is confusing..
According to our data, HCQ is not associated with prolongation. Studies, which reported QTc prolongation secondary to HCQ, need to be re-evaluated more stringently and with controls.
Prolongation is about life span? Or is it something I am not aware of?
Anyway, will look for more on this in due course but not at the moment..
Interesting post.. we need supported comments from both sides..
I should be clear, the question arose not from the post itself but the study done and posted in MedRxiv..
Aug 13, 2021 18:01:26 #
nwtk2007
Loc: Texas
permafrost wrote:
A look at your link and the study.. did not look y... (show quote)
Prolongation refers to the length of time the disease persists to recovery. The survivability is the key issue here. HCQ increases survival of C***d but doesn't shorten the disease duration.
Aug 13, 2021 18:10:30 #
nwtk2007 wrote:
Prolongation refers to the length of time the disease persists to recovery. The survivability is the key issue here. HCQ increases survival of C***d but doesn't shorten the disease duration.
OK,,, good to know.. just did not make sense as I misunderstood it..
Have not found any other reference to it yet.. be great to have a medicine which was that elusive magic pill..
Only a sort of disclaimer on the site which posted the study..
medRxiv
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What is an unrefereed preprint?
Before formal publication in a scholarly journal, scientific and medical articles are traditionally certified by “peer review.” In this process, the journal’s editors take advice from various experts—called “referees”—who have assessed the paper and may identify weaknesses in its assumptions, methods, and conclusions. Typically a journal will only publish an article once the editors are satisfied that the authors have addressed referees’ concerns and that the data presented support the conclusions drawn in the paper.
Because this process can be lengthy, authors use the medRxiv service to make their manuscripts available as “preprints” before certification by peer review, allowing
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We also urge journalists and other individuals who report on medical research to the general public to consider this when discussing work that appears on medRxiv preprints and emphasize it has yet to be evaluated by the medical community and the information presented may be erroneous.
Aug 13, 2021 18:21:06 #
nwtk2007
Loc: Texas
permafrost wrote:
OK,,, good to know.. just did not make sense as I... (show quote)
Yes, this is a pre-confirmation publication/without peer review. The problem with this study is related to when HCQ is administered. New ongoing studies are looking at how quickly HCQ is administered. At present, based upon conference reports is that survival is more than 3 fold increased as long as it it immediately administered, usually prior to testing for C***d can be done, and 100% O2 is administered without mechanical ventilation. Anxiety is a factor but this can be mitigated medicinally. Additionally, any co-morbidity treatments must be magnified.
Aug 14, 2021 06:15:42 #
nwtk2007 wrote:
Yes, this is a pre-confirmation publication/withou... (show quote)
HCQ is also beneficial as a preventative or prophylactic.
Aug 14, 2021 11:08:58 #
Aug 14, 2021 12:17:17 #
nonalien1 wrote:
HCQ is also beneficial as a preventative or prophylactic.
Like wearing a cross around your neck.
Aug 14, 2021 13:10:43 #
kemmer wrote:
Like wearing a cross around your neck.
That's why you never used to see vampires in America. Not like today
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