Rose42

As always, repetition of your falsehoods will never make them true.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

So true, Rose, and the truth, God's Truth, will always remain.

The Greek Old Testament was translated from the Hebrew Scriptures that are no longer extant, that were in use at that time, by Jews, for Jews, several hundred years before the Advent of Christ or the founding of the Church. Furthermore, it was held by many to be an inspired translation,and was used by hellenized Jews in the Diaspora -- Jews who had been hellenized LONG before Christianity came around -- and thus, it was THE Bible of those large sections of Judaism, including those Jews who eventually came to believe in Jesus as their Messiah.

The choice, then, to see "almah" as "virgin" was not ours - nor of the Messianic Jews who had seen their Messiah and wanted justification for it - but rather theirs -- Jews who hadn't yet done so and had no vested interest in such a translation. However, based on His quotes of the Old Testament, that are recorded in the New Testament, Jesus Christ quoted from the Septuagint, recognizing it as His own Words, which were given to His Apostles by the Holy Spirit, as He had promised them.

The Masoretic Hebrew text used in the Hebrew Bible of today is not the original Hebrew text from which the Septuagint was translated 300 years before the common era (before Christ); instead, it defines the Jewish canon and its precise letter-text, with its added vocalization and accentuation known as the Masorah. It was primarily copied, edited and distributed by a Jewish family of scribes and Torah scholars known as the Masoretes between the 7th and 11th centuries of this Common Era (CE).

The oldest extant manuscripts date from the 9th and 10th century CE, nearly 1000 years after the time of Christ. These texts differ from the originals in many minute, but specific ways, as verified with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which include more remnants that agree with the Septuagint than with the modern Masoretic text.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

The real Messiah will have worldwide respect and bring peace on earth along with many others promises that Jesus failed to fulfill.

If you call the world a peaceful place, you are 100% blinded by bullbiden.

The fact that Jesus bragged it up that he would turn people against each other, doesn't jive with the messianic prophecies.

And the hoax of waiting thousands of years for him to come back and finally fulfilling messianic prophecies cannot be found in the Hebrew scriptures.

If Jesus is the messiah, why do we have war zones all around the world.

Jesus didn't get it done.

Besides Elijah is coming before the messiah to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the son and vice versa.

And then the messiah (according to Christian beliefs) is going to undo Elijah's work?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

The dishonest misrepresentation and mischaracterization of the Word of God makes even less sense.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

That's what I'm seeing with your make believe doctrine.

Rose42

Indeed it does. People who reject Christ read more with the intent to prove their unbelief rather the intent to find truth. That lends itself to taking verses out of context and incomplete messages

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

We must recognize that any of the Bible texts can bring people to Christ because it is God the Father, through the living Holy Spirit, that draws the unbeliever through the Living Word.

John 6:44 . Jesus said "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up on the last day.''

The Historically more accurate, much older Greek Septuagint, according to many discerning Bible Scholars, however, is superior to the modern Hebrew Masoretic Text.

The Talmud/Mishnah states that the Masoretic Text (a medieval text used by the KJV, NIV, NASB, etc) was corrupted as the Talmud/Mishnah described conflicting texts, contradictions, and multiple, competing rabbis intentionally altering scriptures and thus they ultimately corrupted it). The Septuagint (translated in the mid 3rd century BC) is far older than the Masoretic Text (MT) and the MT isn't original scripture and not a BC text at all.

Paleo Hebrew, used after Moses' time and used from the 12th to 6th century BC (around 2,000 years older than the MT (Masoretic Text), gave way to Square Hebrew (around 1,300 years older than the MT), which then eventually gave way to Greek, as evidenced by the Septuagint, which is around 1,000 years than the MT. The Septuagint predates Christianity, used when Greek became the lingua franca, and its use in synagogues among the Jews around the Mediterranean was substantial.

Paleo Hebrew, Square Hebrew, and the Septuagint (LXX) within the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) preserve the originals, and overwhelmingly disagree with the MT in numerous instances; the Septuagint predates Christianity and scrolls from it are found within the Dead Sea Scrolls.

1.) Exodus 1:5 in the DSS agrees with the Septuagint against the MT/KJV/NABRE/NASB/NIV/RSV/RSVCE/ that all the souls from Jacob were 75, not 70, thus agreeing with St. Stephen in Acts 7:14.

2.) The older DSS, the Samaritan Pentateuch, Aramaic Targums, etc, agree with the Septuagint against the MT (and KJV/NASB/NIV) for Deut. 32:8-9 in using sons/angels of God and not sons of Israel.

3.) The DSS for Deuteronomy 32:43 lines up with the Septuagint against the MT (and KJV/NABRE/NASB/NIV/RSV/RSVCE) saying the angels are to worship messiah.

4.) The Septuagint for 1 and 2 Samuel are backed up by 3 DSS (Dead Sea Scrolls) and the MT (Masoretic Text) is known among scholars as botching 1 and 2 Samuel badly.

5.) The MT wrongly (some evidence for #4) has Saul becoming king at age one and ruling for two years.

6.) The MT actually left out an entire line from Psalm 145 that the DSS and the Septuagint preserved, thus the so-called masters of vowel memorization not only forgot vowels but also consonants.

7.) Psalm 40:6(7): a messianic proof text for the Incarnation:

The MT (and KJV/NABRE/NASB/NIV/RSV/RSVCE): Thou hast dug out my ears.

The Septuagint: A body thou hast prepared me.

8.) Concerning another messianic psalm, Psalm 22:16, the DSS agrees with the Septuagint against the MT.

9.) Baruch, Sirach, Tobit, and Psalm 151 are written in Hebrew in the DSS.

10.) ▪︎The chronology of Genesis 11 and the year of the flood of the Paleo Hebrew and the Septuagint line up against the MT. Shem is not Melchizedek:

▪︎Literary sources before 100 AD that agree with the LXX: 2 Esdras, Josephus and Philo (30/70 AD) did not use the Septuagint but used Square Hebrew texts to come to their conclusion that lines up with the Septuagint.

▪︎Eupolemus, the Jewish 2nd century BC historian's chronology, comes close to aligning with the Paleo Hebrew and Septuagint and against the MT.

▪︎Jewish Demetrius the Chronicler's (3rd century BC) chronology comes very close to the Paleo Hebrew and Septuagint and against the MT.

*Justin Martyr said the scriptures were being altered in his time period. See Jeremiah 8:8.

▪︎https://biblearchaeology.org/research/biblical-chronologies/4349-mt-sp-or-lxx-deciphering-a-chronological-and-textual-conundrum-in-genesis-5

Since synagogues around the Mediterranean used the Septuagint and Square Hebrew, even in Palestine, Greek was the lingua franca, Jesus grew up near Sepphoris where Hebrew and Greek were both spoken and where Joseph could ply his trade, Christ quoted the scriptures, spoke to the Syrophoenician woman, and Mark/Luke were written to Romans/Greeks, some will be hard-pressed to prove Jesus used only Hebrew.

Outside Judea, close to 100% of the diaspora synagogue inscriptions are in Greek. In Judea, where the default language is Aramaic, 80% of synagogue inscriptions are in Greek.

Some have said the Deuterocanon was never written in Hebrew but the DSS (Dead Sea Scrolls) proved that to be false as at least 3 so far (Baruch, Sirach, and Tobit of the Deuterocanon), have been found within the DSS written in Hebrew, and using the word "recension" against them is a continual knee-jerk reaction to the Deuterocanon being written in Hebrew and thus a moving of the goal posts.

Concerning key messianic scriptures, Catholics, Copts, Orthodox, and Protestants see that the leaven of the rabbis and then later the Masoretes seemed to target scriptures that point to Jesus Christ. (Matthew 16:6).

The Septuagint can be found in numerous codices, not the least of which are the Codex Vaticanus, Sinaiticus, Aexandrinus and others, all pretty much in agreement with each other, and all much older than the oldest Masoretic text of the many Masoretic texts.

The Paleo Hebrew, Square Hebrew, and the Septuagint all agree with each other against the Masoretic Text far more than they disagree, thus the starting point is to sideline the MT in favor of the totality of the Septuagint, Paleo Hebrew, Samaritan Pentateuch, Aramaic Targums, Peshitta, Codex Vaticanus, Sinaiticus and others which provide substantially older Old Testaments.

There are dozens and dozens of instances where the Paleo Hebrew, Square Hebrew, and the Septuagint agree against the MT: By the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let every word be established. Deut. 19:15; 2 Cor. 13:1.

Given that Septuagint scrolls were found with Paleo Hebrew and Square Hebrew scrolls in the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS), one would again be hard-pressed to prove that Christians composed the Septuagint and, as well, the Torah was translated into Greek from 283-246 BC under Ptolemy II Philadelphus and the prophets and writings within the next 100 years.

Septuagint Chronicles is quoted by Eupolemos in the middle of the 2nd century BC, and Septuagint Job by Pseudo-Aristeas in the beginning of the 1st century BC thus Christians and certainly not Origen created it. Furthermore...

The translation of Isaiah contains allusions to historical situations and events that point to the years 170-­150 BCE" (Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible, Emanuel Tov, p 131, 2012).

Septuagint fragments found at Qumran (Lev.), the Nahal Hever (Habbakuk, near Ein Gedi), dated 50 BC, Deut. fragments dates 2nd century BC.

Proseuche (forerunner to the synagogue) foundation stones in Egypt are dated 120 to 240 BC. If you gather in a church or synagogue, its origins are found in Hellenistic Egypt as they are foreign to temple-only thought. The synagogue ultimately spread to Israel along with the Septuagint (Theodotus inscription, in Greek, a synagogue in Jerusalem, 1st century AD).

Archaeological surveys "...of Palestinian synagogue inscriptions revealed that 67 were in Greek, 54 were in Aramaic and 14 in Hebrew. Most of the Greek inscriptions were found in the coastal and important inland cities." (Caesarea under Roman rule, Lee Levine).

Concerning archeological findings: the Delos synagogue dates to 250 BC and the Magdala synagogue: dates to 50 BC.

There was almost exclusive use of Greek in all synagogue inscriptions everywhere in the Diaspora world, and again, the New Testament Apostles and other closely associated writers (Luke, Mark) used Greek texts, not the Hebrew, for around two thirds of their quotations from the Old Testament.


http://www.kalvesmaki.com/LXX/NTChart.htm
Resources for study of the Septuagint and old Greek translations of the Hebrew scriptures

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Briefly, if possible, how was anything mischaracterized or dishonest?

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

When honestly comparing what Jesus is said to have accomplished and the signs that are to follow the true messiah, it's common sense that would screen out the failure of Jesus being Mashiach.

Rose42

In the words of a kind man I wish I’d had the opportunity to meet - amen and amen.