"He will be called a Nazarene"?
Jul 21, 2021 20:18:19 #
Michael Rich
Loc: Lapine Oregon
In Matt 2:23 A claim is made that a prophecy from the Hebrew Bible says...
And he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets: ""he will be called a Nazarene""...
This is a stand alone, clear and concise claim.
Could someone simply show me where the prophecy is, in the Hebrew scriptures?
Some people have accused me of just trying to find oddities and mistranslated Greco/Roman scriptures.
To me, the words speak for themselves.
P.S...please don't be scared.☺
And he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets: ""he will be called a Nazarene""...
This is a stand alone, clear and concise claim.
Could someone simply show me where the prophecy is, in the Hebrew scriptures?
Some people have accused me of just trying to find oddities and mistranslated Greco/Roman scriptures.
To me, the words speak for themselves.
P.S...please don't be scared.☺
Jul 22, 2021 12:31:48 #
Peewee
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Michael Rich wrote:
In Matt 2:23 A claim is made that a prophecy from ... (show quote)
He was born in Bethlehem because of taxes, he grew up in Nazareth where Joseph was a carpenter and business was better because both Jews and Gentiles lived there. I believe it's stated in Matthew that's where they returned to after leaving Egypt when Herod died. Nazareth and the Hebrew word Netzer sound alike, the word meaning sprout, root, or branch mention by Isaiah.
Jul 22, 2021 12:57:05 #
Michael Rich
Loc: Lapine Oregon
Peewee wrote:
He was born in Bethlehem because of taxes, he grew up in Nazareth where Joseph was a carpenter and business was better because both Jews and Gentiles lived there. I believe it's stated in Matthew that's where they returned to after leaving Egypt when Herod died. Nazareth and the Hebrew word Netzer sound alike, the word meaning sprout, root, or branch mention by Isaiah.
This verse in the Greco/Roman bible is claimed to be from the Hebrew Bible.
The Greek bible wasn't written and compiled yet.
It is a dogmatic statement and claim, the words explain themselves.
Jul 23, 2021 07:46:53 #
Peewee wrote:
He was born in Bethlehem because of taxes, he grew up in Nazareth where Joseph was a carpenter and business was better because both Jews and Gentiles lived there. I believe it's stated in Matthew that's where they returned to after leaving Egypt when Herod died. Nazareth and the Hebrew word Netzer sound alike, the word meaning sprout, root, or branch mention by Isaiah.
One theory is its referencing a prophecy not recorded in the OT. Another is its a synonym for someone who is reviled as Nazareth was looked down on. Remember Nathaniel asked if anything good can come from Nazareth (John 1:46). There are others but I don’t remember them.
Jul 23, 2021 14:39:12 #
Michael Rich
Loc: Lapine Oregon
Rose42 wrote:
One theory is its referencing a prophecy not recorded in the OT. Another is its a synonym for someone who is reviled as Nazareth was looked down on. Remember Nathaniel asked if anything good can come from Nazareth (John 1:46). There are others but I don’t remember them.
Even if your theory is full blown bullbiden, you have the option of accepting it on faith and can now avoid the subject the rest of your life.
Jul 23, 2021 14:45:07 #
Michael Rich wrote:
Even if your theory is full blown bullbiden, you have the option of accepting it on faith and can now avoid the subject the rest of your life.
You can stay under the influence of the wrong spirit the rest of your life or you can choose to accept the free gift of salvation. Its never too late until you draw your last breath.
Jul 23, 2021 15:16:47 #
Michael, based on your inadequate research, perhaps the trepidation should be yours.
Peewee is exactly correct!
Jonathan Gill, English Baptist theologian (1697-1771)
John Gill, famous Christian theologian/author preached in the same London church as Charles H. Spurgeon, preceding him by over one hundred years. His works contain priceless gems of information that are found nowhere else, except in the ancient writings of the Jewish scribes and scholars, in the knowledge of which he was unexcelled:
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible:
Matthew 2:23 "And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene."
Luke 1:26: "And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee whose name was Nazareth,"
"And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth,.... Which was a city of Galilee, and where Joseph and Mary had both dwelt before, here they came and fixed their habitation,
that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet. This affair of going into Galilee, and settling at Nazareth, was brought about with this view, to accomplish what had been foretold by the prophets, or prophet, the plural number being used for the singular, as in John 6:45. And indeed it is so rendered here in the Syriac, Persic, and Ethiopic versions; and designs the prophet Isaiah, and respects that prophecy of his in Isaiah 11:1 "and there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and "a branch shall grow out of his roots"; a prophecy owned by the Jews (e) themselves to belong to the Messiah, and which was now fulfilled in Jesus; who as he was descended from Jesse's family, so by dwelling at Nazareth, he would appear to be, and would be "called a Nazarene, or Netzer, the branch"; being an inhabitant of Natzareth, or Netzer, so called from the multitude of plants and trees that grew there.
A Nazarene, as David de Pomis says (f),
"is one that is born in the city Netzer, which is said to be in the land of Galilee, three days journey distant from Jerusalem.''
Now though Christ was not born, yet because he dwelt at Nazareth, and was educated there; hence the Jews frequently call him , "Jesus, the Nazarene (g)"; and sometimes only "the Nazarene." They also design him by , "Ben Netzer" (i), of whom they say a great many evil things: and that Christ is often called Jesus of Nazareth, or the Nazarene, and his followers Nazarenes, from the place of his habitation, is known to everyone. One of Christ's disciples is called Netzer in the Talmud (k), and made to plead for his life, because his name signified a branch, according to Isaiah 11:1. Surenhusius observes (l), that the form "to fulfil what is said", used by the Talmudists, and which he takes to be the same with this here, is used by them, when they allege not the very words of Moses, or the prophets, but their sense, which is deduced as a certain axiom from them; and thinks it is applicable to the present case.
(e) Targum, Jarchi, Aben Ezra & Kimchi in loc. (f) Lexic Heb. fol. 141. 2.((g) T. Bab. Avoda Zara, fol. 17. 1. Ganz. par. 2. fol. 14. 2. Abarbinel in Dan. fol. 44. 1.((h) Ganz. par. 1. fol. 24. 2.((i) T. Bab. Cetuboth, fol. 51. 2. & Gloss. in ib. Bereshith Rabba, fol. 67. 2. Abarbinel in Dau. fol. 44. 1.((k) T. Bab. Sanhedrim, fol. 43. 1.((l) Biblos Katallages, p, 2, 3, 4, 197, &c.
Exposition of the Entire Bible by Johnathan Gill [1746-63].
Text Courtesy of Internet Sacred Texts Archive.
Peewee is exactly correct!
Jonathan Gill, English Baptist theologian (1697-1771)
John Gill, famous Christian theologian/author preached in the same London church as Charles H. Spurgeon, preceding him by over one hundred years. His works contain priceless gems of information that are found nowhere else, except in the ancient writings of the Jewish scribes and scholars, in the knowledge of which he was unexcelled:
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible:
Matthew 2:23 "And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene."
Luke 1:26: "And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee whose name was Nazareth,"
"And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth,.... Which was a city of Galilee, and where Joseph and Mary had both dwelt before, here they came and fixed their habitation,
that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet. This affair of going into Galilee, and settling at Nazareth, was brought about with this view, to accomplish what had been foretold by the prophets, or prophet, the plural number being used for the singular, as in John 6:45. And indeed it is so rendered here in the Syriac, Persic, and Ethiopic versions; and designs the prophet Isaiah, and respects that prophecy of his in Isaiah 11:1 "and there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and "a branch shall grow out of his roots"; a prophecy owned by the Jews (e) themselves to belong to the Messiah, and which was now fulfilled in Jesus; who as he was descended from Jesse's family, so by dwelling at Nazareth, he would appear to be, and would be "called a Nazarene, or Netzer, the branch"; being an inhabitant of Natzareth, or Netzer, so called from the multitude of plants and trees that grew there.
A Nazarene, as David de Pomis says (f),
"is one that is born in the city Netzer, which is said to be in the land of Galilee, three days journey distant from Jerusalem.''
Now though Christ was not born, yet because he dwelt at Nazareth, and was educated there; hence the Jews frequently call him , "Jesus, the Nazarene (g)"; and sometimes only "the Nazarene." They also design him by , "Ben Netzer" (i), of whom they say a great many evil things: and that Christ is often called Jesus of Nazareth, or the Nazarene, and his followers Nazarenes, from the place of his habitation, is known to everyone. One of Christ's disciples is called Netzer in the Talmud (k), and made to plead for his life, because his name signified a branch, according to Isaiah 11:1. Surenhusius observes (l), that the form "to fulfil what is said", used by the Talmudists, and which he takes to be the same with this here, is used by them, when they allege not the very words of Moses, or the prophets, but their sense, which is deduced as a certain axiom from them; and thinks it is applicable to the present case.
(e) Targum, Jarchi, Aben Ezra & Kimchi in loc. (f) Lexic Heb. fol. 141. 2.((g) T. Bab. Avoda Zara, fol. 17. 1. Ganz. par. 2. fol. 14. 2. Abarbinel in Dan. fol. 44. 1.((h) Ganz. par. 1. fol. 24. 2.((i) T. Bab. Cetuboth, fol. 51. 2. & Gloss. in ib. Bereshith Rabba, fol. 67. 2. Abarbinel in Dau. fol. 44. 1.((k) T. Bab. Sanhedrim, fol. 43. 1.((l) Biblos Katallages, p, 2, 3, 4, 197, &c.
Exposition of the Entire Bible by Johnathan Gill [1746-63].
Text Courtesy of Internet Sacred Texts Archive.
Michael Rich wrote:
In Matt 2:23 A claim is made that a prophecy from ... (show quote)
Jul 23, 2021 15:27:33 #
Michael Rich
Loc: Lapine Oregon
Zemirah wrote:
Michael, based on your inadequate research, perhap... (show quote)
Your "theory" is duly noted.
When this claim was made about a prophecy, it is before the compilation of the original 11 books that made up the Greco Roman bible.
The prophecy is supposed to be from the Hebrew Bible.
Produce a strait forward chapter and verse (from the old Testament) that proves the stated prophecy was actually uttered.
I do appreciate the study time that you've obviously put into your beliefs.
Jul 24, 2021 02:54:06 #
When scholars use the term “Greco-Roman world,” they are referring to a six hundred year period in the lands around the Mediterranean: from the time of Alexander the Great (son of Philip of Macedon, ruler of Macedonia, born 356 B.C. - ca 300 B.C., to the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine ca A.D. 300.
Upon his father’s execution, Alexander engaged in a military campaign in which he conquered most of the Mediterranean area, from his native land Macedonia, into Greece and then Egypt, Palestine and Persia. Alexander had, as a youth, studied under the Greek philosopher Aristotle, and became dedicated to Greek culture and Greek religion.
As he conquered the lands around the Mediterranean, Alexander promoted the adoption of Greek culture in these lands, building Greek cities, in which there were gymnasium, temples and other Greek institutions, and urging the adoption of the Greek language among the elite. He was not only conquering lands and cities, but subduing them culturally - unifying the conquered areas under one common Greek culture.
This is significant as the New Testament was written in Greek because Israel proper (retitled Palestine by the Romans), and the surrounding nations around the Mediterranean, had already adopted Alexander’s Greek culture. The Greek word for “Greece” is hellas, and the “Hellenistic” world denotes the world of Greek culture left in the wake of Alexander’s conquests.
Your writing is models the despotic attack of skepticism by formerly Christian, "apostate Scholar," Bart Ehrman, the principal North American opponent of Christianity working in New Testament studies. He routinely publishes books that eschew the doctrines of orthodox Christianity (most recently, "How Jesus became God"). His work, "Misquoting Jesus," has led many astray, convincing them the Bible, specifically, the New Testament, can not be trusted as an authentic witness to the ttrue words, sayings, and acts of Jesus the Messiah.
Bart Ehrman makes several claims in his work that have received a profoundly justified rebuttal from the Evangelical World, through Edward D. Andrews, author of "Misrepresenting Jesus Debunking Bart D. Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus" – March 29, 2012, which has accomplished this with great scholarship and an easy to read format designed to understand the Science and Art of Textual Criticism. Andrews surveys the origins of the inspired authorship of the New Testament Gospel, the ancient Manuscripts that have enabled scholars for the last 400 years to possess a reconstructed Original and Authentic Greek New Testament.
Bart Ehrman, once he opened the door to doubt during his academic years of study at Wheaton and finally at Princeton Theological Seminary, slid down the slippery slope of unbelief, doubt, radical skepticism and radical apostasy, abandoning and finally leaving his evangelical faith!
Richard, you appear to have chosen to blindly follow Ehrman's established pattern.
Rather than acknowledging the clear evidences from history, archaeology, the manuscript evidence, and the testimony of thousands upon thousands of people who have testified to the reality of the working of the Holy Spirit in their lives, Ehrman chose to close his heart and mind to these "facts," turning a blind eye, and he now is part of that which Jesus said of the Scribes and Pharisees while on earth, "The Blind leading the Blind."
Andrews takes the time to respond to Ehrman in a clear and precise manner in his "Misrepresenting Jesus," - to clearly represent the real facts of the Historical Jesus, building upon an abiding faith, and witnessing with truth to the facts that are willfully omitted from Ehrman's books, and of which you appear to be ignorant.
The Greek Septuagint Old Testament, translated from a Hebrew translation that is no longer extant, was completed by 132 B.C., over 200 years before the New Testament, for the Greek New Testament was completed ca 95-96 A.D.
It did not require "validation" from any church council.
Those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells did and do recognize their Master's voice, as He said they would. (John 10:27-28) The same 27 books of which the Christian New Testament now consist were being circulated among the churches as soon as they were written, i.e.,by the end of the 1st century.
Historically, nothing in your statement explains itself, nor does your claiming it make it so, make it so.
You appear to be "whistling Dixie," by your unwillingness to believe and your resultant inability to understand in no way invalidates the truth of God's word, nor does it throw doubt on the prophecies that have been easily understood by believing Christians for two thousand years.
Upon his father’s execution, Alexander engaged in a military campaign in which he conquered most of the Mediterranean area, from his native land Macedonia, into Greece and then Egypt, Palestine and Persia. Alexander had, as a youth, studied under the Greek philosopher Aristotle, and became dedicated to Greek culture and Greek religion.
As he conquered the lands around the Mediterranean, Alexander promoted the adoption of Greek culture in these lands, building Greek cities, in which there were gymnasium, temples and other Greek institutions, and urging the adoption of the Greek language among the elite. He was not only conquering lands and cities, but subduing them culturally - unifying the conquered areas under one common Greek culture.
This is significant as the New Testament was written in Greek because Israel proper (retitled Palestine by the Romans), and the surrounding nations around the Mediterranean, had already adopted Alexander’s Greek culture. The Greek word for “Greece” is hellas, and the “Hellenistic” world denotes the world of Greek culture left in the wake of Alexander’s conquests.
Your writing is models the despotic attack of skepticism by formerly Christian, "apostate Scholar," Bart Ehrman, the principal North American opponent of Christianity working in New Testament studies. He routinely publishes books that eschew the doctrines of orthodox Christianity (most recently, "How Jesus became God"). His work, "Misquoting Jesus," has led many astray, convincing them the Bible, specifically, the New Testament, can not be trusted as an authentic witness to the ttrue words, sayings, and acts of Jesus the Messiah.
Bart Ehrman makes several claims in his work that have received a profoundly justified rebuttal from the Evangelical World, through Edward D. Andrews, author of "Misrepresenting Jesus Debunking Bart D. Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus" – March 29, 2012, which has accomplished this with great scholarship and an easy to read format designed to understand the Science and Art of Textual Criticism. Andrews surveys the origins of the inspired authorship of the New Testament Gospel, the ancient Manuscripts that have enabled scholars for the last 400 years to possess a reconstructed Original and Authentic Greek New Testament.
Bart Ehrman, once he opened the door to doubt during his academic years of study at Wheaton and finally at Princeton Theological Seminary, slid down the slippery slope of unbelief, doubt, radical skepticism and radical apostasy, abandoning and finally leaving his evangelical faith!
Richard, you appear to have chosen to blindly follow Ehrman's established pattern.
Rather than acknowledging the clear evidences from history, archaeology, the manuscript evidence, and the testimony of thousands upon thousands of people who have testified to the reality of the working of the Holy Spirit in their lives, Ehrman chose to close his heart and mind to these "facts," turning a blind eye, and he now is part of that which Jesus said of the Scribes and Pharisees while on earth, "The Blind leading the Blind."
Andrews takes the time to respond to Ehrman in a clear and precise manner in his "Misrepresenting Jesus," - to clearly represent the real facts of the Historical Jesus, building upon an abiding faith, and witnessing with truth to the facts that are willfully omitted from Ehrman's books, and of which you appear to be ignorant.
The Greek Septuagint Old Testament, translated from a Hebrew translation that is no longer extant, was completed by 132 B.C., over 200 years before the New Testament, for the Greek New Testament was completed ca 95-96 A.D.
It did not require "validation" from any church council.
Those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells did and do recognize their Master's voice, as He said they would. (John 10:27-28) The same 27 books of which the Christian New Testament now consist were being circulated among the churches as soon as they were written, i.e.,by the end of the 1st century.
Historically, nothing in your statement explains itself, nor does your claiming it make it so, make it so.
You appear to be "whistling Dixie," by your unwillingness to believe and your resultant inability to understand in no way invalidates the truth of God's word, nor does it throw doubt on the prophecies that have been easily understood by believing Christians for two thousand years.
Michael Rich wrote:
This verse in the Greco/Roman bible is claimed to be from the Hebrew Bible.
The Greek bible wasn't written and compiled yet.
It is a dogmatic statement and claim, the words explain themselves.
The Greek bible wasn't written and compiled yet.
It is a dogmatic statement and claim, the words explain themselves.
Jul 24, 2021 12:40:36 #
Michael Rich
Loc: Lapine Oregon
Zemirah wrote:
When scholars use the term b “Greco-Roman world,”... (show quote)
All of the history lesson is appreciated.
Although I have studied about the Hellenization of the world.
Can you provide the clear and concise prophecy from the old Testament that I've been asking about.
Jul 26, 2021 02:28:41 #
Michael,
Your refusal (not inability) to understand and/or accept what God has provided in both the Tanakh and B'rit Hadashah is instrumental to your soul's final reckoning.
God has no obligation to allow any man to dictate the wording of His revelation to man.
It is not I who will gnash my teeth on that day.
If you had ever received or known Christ you would not have turned your back upon Him.
A scholar you are not, or even a serious student.
Games I do not play.
Shaken the dust from my feet I have.
Jesus says to his disciples, "And if anyone will not welcome you or heed your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town." (Matthew 10:14)
It's important to know that Jesus gives us permission to move on from those who wallow in perversity.
"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city." (Mark 6:11)
Your refusal (not inability) to understand and/or accept what God has provided in both the Tanakh and B'rit Hadashah is instrumental to your soul's final reckoning.
God has no obligation to allow any man to dictate the wording of His revelation to man.
It is not I who will gnash my teeth on that day.
If you had ever received or known Christ you would not have turned your back upon Him.
A scholar you are not, or even a serious student.
Games I do not play.
Shaken the dust from my feet I have.
Jesus says to his disciples, "And if anyone will not welcome you or heed your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town." (Matthew 10:14)
It's important to know that Jesus gives us permission to move on from those who wallow in perversity.
"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city." (Mark 6:11)
Michael Rich wrote:
All of the history lesson is appreciated.
Although I have studied about the Hellenization of the world.
Can you provide the clear and concise prophecy from the old Testament that I've been asking about.
Although I have studied about the Hellenization of the world.
Can you provide the clear and concise prophecy from the old Testament that I've been asking about.
Jul 26, 2021 12:14:06 #
Michael Rich
Loc: Lapine Oregon
Zemirah wrote:
Michael, br br Your refusal (not inability) to un... (show quote)
Take your curse and present it to your fake god.
Your two bit scare tactics are a sad commentary for grown adults to play with.
I don't claim to be a scholar. But I'm not a fool who accepts your idolatrous lifestyle either.
You people who think that you're first in line for the kingdom will be in for a rude awakening.
Idolatry is serious business, maybe you can plead extreme ignorance.
Sparky already dusted his feet off anyway LOL.
Get over your self righteousness and have a non idolatrous day.
Jul 26, 2021 13:14:08 #
Michael Rich wrote:
Take your curse and present it to your fake god. b... (show quote)
So now you are calling Christians fools. That too is biblical.
You are in a very dangerous place Michael.
Jul 26, 2021 14:08:41 #
Michael Rich
Loc: Lapine Oregon
Rose42 wrote:
So now you are calling Christians fools. That too is biblical.
You are in a very dangerous place Michael.
You are in a very dangerous place Michael.
Yes..ignorance to God's word is more appropriate for Zemmy.
Can you image a god who would actually allow a common New Testament bible thumper the devine ability to actually curse someone.? It's absurdly laughable.
I have to wonder how many notches that Zemmy has carved into her voo doo broomstick😂
I bet her given name is not Zemmariah too.
Jul 26, 2021 15:54:53 #
Michael Rich wrote:
Yes..ignorance to God's word is more appropriate for Zemmy.
Zemmy? No she is not ignorant by any means. Just the opposite
Quote:
Can you image a god who would actually allow a common New Testament bible thumper the devine ability to actually curse someone.? It's absurdly laughable.
I have to wonder how many notches that Zemmy has carved into her voo doo broomstick😂
I have to wonder how many notches that Zemmy has carved into her voo doo broomstick😂
Where did she curse you? I don’t see it because she didn’t.
Quote:
I bet her given name is not Zemmariah too.
Who cares? You used to use a different name. Its not important what someone’s username is.
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