no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

On a different thread a statement was made that conservatives wanted their children to be well behaved, while the liberals want their children to be kind to other people. I commented to my neighbor about that and he told me a story. Some years ago he and his son who was twelve at the time were in town doing chores and saw a man standing on a corner with a sign that said "will work for food". His son said that the chicken c**p needed cleaning maybe they should hire the man to do it. The boy went over to the man and said that they had work for him and would pay him as well as feed him, and the work was cleaning the chicken c**p. The man told him no thanks but could he please have two dollars to buy some food? Smart boy said, no work, no pay and learned something about other people. That man's son, our neighbor's grandson was with grand dad in town recently and a man in dirty clothes came up to them and asked for money so he could buy lunch. The boy went into the store and bought a meal for the man and brought it to him, where upon the man shouted something nasty and said just give me the da**n money. He also learned something about human nature.
So the question is, these boys were being nice offering work or food, and also being well behaved by not telling the bums what they thought of the man. Which would you prefer, a child who is always nice to people, or a child that behaves himself and is polite to everyone, friend or not? What constitutes being nice, does it include not telling someone that they are doing something wrong or bad so as to not hurt their feelings? Examples such as taking money from Moms' purse or not telling a friends parents that the friend is doing drugs? How far does it go when you are being nice? On the other hand if you want your children to be well behaved does that require sitting quietly by while adults talk and being passive under all circumstances. Does well behaved include "yes Mam" and "No Sir" and holding the door open for old people even if your friends think you a wuss for doing it? Which would you want your children to be, or would you put the emphasis on something else, if so, what? I really would like to know, plus this subject should not generate vicious comments or h**eful speech so it could be a change of pace for the site..

Worried for our children Loc: Massachusetts

There's a lot to digest in your topic NPP, and has the potential to splinter into many things to take into consideration. I like to strive for both, but one needs to bare in mind that children are individuals, and no two are exactly alike. If I succeed at achieving even just one side of your coin, I consider myself fortunate, even if I am only batting .500 - thanks for the post 👍

no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

I know that it is a many sided question. What brought it up was the concept that being kind is somewhat hard to define, so of course it means different things to different people. Rather like the concept of loving your neighbor like God loves us. God tells us what is right and wrong and admonishes us to do better. Are we loving to our friends when we do less that that? Is it loving to ignore the dysfunctional behavior of a friend when we are afraid that telling them what they are doing is bad will hurt their feelings and our friendship? Can children be well behaved sociopaths or do they have to have empathy for other people in order to be really well behaved? Your feedback is important, because you usually have thoughtful posts.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

That makes me wonder. What is wrong with being well behaved AND kind to other people. Whoever got the idea that considerate behavior has to be compartmentalized?

no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

Nothing is wrong with that concept. what got me thinking was the premise that conservatives want their kids well behaved but don't care if they are kind and loving, but progressives want their kids loving and don't care if they act like little tasmanian devils in public.
That idea struck me as strange so I thought it would be worth discussing.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

I guess that would explain it, the source I mean. So many ideologies are more intent at proving their differences, than they are anything else. Now they're including children in their lunacy. God forbid that children from different political ideologies were ALL well mannered, thoughtful, considerate and kind.

Worried for our children Loc: Massachusetts

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"Are we loving to our friends when we do less that that? Is it loving to ignore the dysfunctional behavior of a friend when we are afraid that telling them what they are doing is bad will hurt their feelings and our friendship?"

NO - If you love your friend, then it is safe to assume that that love(and respect) is reciprocated. If fear plays any roll in this decision, then there must be a chink in the armor of your bond. With true and honest love, there should be no fear. I have had more than several friends growing up, that I'm still friends with today that I have had this conversation with. Fear did not play a roll for me, as I figured if I did not help my friend, I may not have him/her as a friend for long, if they continued down the path of self-destruction.


"Can children be well behaved sociopaths or do they have to have empathy for other people in order to be really well behaved?

- Empathy is something that escapes a true sociopath. Sociopathy and psychopathy, are two types of personality disorder, and can/do overlap which leaves the child devoid of any empathy and/or remorse, so I think it possible that a child may interact with (say) parents one way, but once in the company of children their own age may behave in a totally different way, and more often than not, usually do. I guess my point is, yes they may be able to but a lot depends on the environment they are in at that moment.
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I hope I touched on what you were looking for, that second question did have me a little puzzled. And thank you for the compliment.

no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

The most important thing parents can do is for both the husband and wife to raise children that have empathy toward other people, a good idea of what is right and wrong and how to do the right thing no matter what your friends want to do, and know that as adults they are responsible for making the most out of their lives Unfortunately too often they are taught that the bad things they do are everybody else's fault and that they never need to be accountable. Well, maybe this thread will get a few people thinking, if nothing else.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

Before I even start, I decided definitions may be helpful.

Behave 1. to manage the actions of (oneself) in a particular way. 2. to conduct (oneself) in a proper manner

Well-balancedhaving good or equal amounts of all the necessary parts of something

Kind a group of people or things that belong together or have some shared quality : a particular type or variety of person or thing
3. fundamental nature or quality : essence

What the individual, who declared what conservatives want in their children, is insinuating is conservatives want robot, non thinking obedience. It is intended as an insult. It is meant to place conservatives on the defensive.

In point of fact, a liberal wants exactly what the prime definition of kind is. They want to belong in a group that share only their qualities, beliefs, etc. Excuse the snark. It should be noted that, as they would define it, the third definition is not primary for the word.

What conservatives want from young people is well-balanced behavior. Where is it written that because a young person utilizes good manners they cannot be kind? Is it the presumption because they know how to say: please, thank you, yes, ma'am and yes, sir, they are unable to be kind and empathic?

A person can talk with an individual about harmful behavior without being unkind. It is about word usage, but just as importantly, timing, place, facial expression, and tone of voice.

I am not certain I gave you what you were looking for.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

Make sure they have a consistent message from both parents on issues! Nothing is more confusing to a child then mixed messages from parents. They need to know if one parent says "no" that is what they will hear from the other parent.



I agree.

no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

You are right. they learn two things from mixed messages. One is that if you annoy other people enough they will give up and give in. Perfect training for future protestors. The other thing is that there are no absolute right or wrong things to do, because the adults around you change their minds arbitrarily .
Other thing to think about what does love really mean? Can you love someone if you don't ever tell them that what they are doing is bad, because you don't want to hurt their feelings? Remember, that the idea is the action is bad not the person who did the action.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

I forgot to put this. Never use the phrase, "I promise. unless you have a very high percentage of meeting that promise. A promise is a commitment. If you frequently use the word; however, do not complete the promise, what have you taught your child about meeting commitments?

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

The unfortunate thing that MUST confuse the hell out of kids, regardless of what they're taught at home, in seeing all the adults displayed in the media. How many examples of bad behavior being rewarded do they see? Or bad behavior being tolerated?

I see adults confused about these things, I can only imagine the effect on children. With adults being confused about right and wrong, honor and duty, honesty and integrity, love and compassion and/or respect for other people, children have a hard row to hoe.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

Parents need to understand their children do pay attention to their parents behavior, as well as that of other family and close friends. You choose carefully who is within your circle to provide the best role models you can. You set the behavioral expectations, as well as consequences for not following them. They need to be clear and unequivocal.

Worried for our children Loc: Massachusetts

Well said by both.