troysal Loc: Picayune MS

Many believe that Jesus' statement "I and the father are one" is a claim to deity. In this article I show why this is not the best way to understand it.

https://letthetruthcomeoutblog.wordpress.com/2020/09/17/john-1030-38-did-jesus-really-claim-to-be-god/

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Superbly reasoned and written...

The concept of "agency" should be understood by a greater number of folk....
(liked that part)

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

John 1:1 claims that the Word (Jesus) was God.

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

Only if you think the 'word' is equivalent to Jesus. I take the 'word' to be what it always was throughout the OT, God's declared purpose spoken in the prophets. If you are interested I have an article on the prologue of John.

https://letthetruthcomeoutblog.wordpress.com/2020/04/12/prologue-of-the-gospel-of-john/

By the way the article of the OP is about whether Jesus claimed to be God. Did you read it?

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

Thanks. Yeah the concept of agency really is a key to correctly understanding much about how God operates, and especially about how Jesus is God's chief representative to man. But it is amazing how few Christians have ever even heard of the concept, even though it permeates the biblical record. I've been a Christian for 40 yrs and only discovered this truth about 6 yrs ago.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

I did read most of it and most of it I've read before.

The centuries long debate of the level of deity that Jesus possessed has formed a plethora of opinions, interpretation, and has contributed to the many different sects splintered from the original church.

Unitarians disavow that Jesus was God.

Mormans preach that he was God.

The church adopted saints, and idols of many shapes.

I look at the common idol worship of the many images painted that are supposed to be Jesus.

How could those Christians hang up a picture of their (God) without breaking the commandment of no graven images?

I believe that most churches are definitely in chaos and confusion.

Paul who basically built the core of Christianity, in 1stCorinthians 1:10 orders in the name of Jesus for all the church's to speak the same thing..no divisions and such.

It seems that a lot has been lost in translation since the ministry of Paul.

troysal Loc: Picayune MS

Michael Rich,

Yes, the religion of Christianity is a mess; so far removed from the faith once delivered to the saints. I believe the apostles themselves did nit teach the deity of Jesus or the Trinity doctrine; these were later developments. As we move away from the apostolic era the earliest groups of Jewish believers believed that Jesus was a normal human being, but that he was the Messiah promised by God. All of the early church historians speak of these Jewish Christians as the direct descendants of the apostolic church of Judea and they clearly did not regard Jesus as deity. The idea of Jesus being more than a real man began to develop by the end of the 1st century among gentile believers who were steeped in Greek philosophy and by Christian gnostic groups. Eventually, by the 4th century Jesus had became of the same substance as God and by the end of that century the full blown Trinity doctrine became orthodoxy under the threat of Imperial decree. These ideas have been the default belief of Christians ever since, but there have always, in every century, been those who have rejected the official party line and have embraced the original faith of the apostles of Jesus. Most Christians do not have a clue about any of this and they never think to question the things they have been taught. But many in our day are coming to the simple faith once delivered to the saints.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

The council of Nicea in 325 a.d. was a huge pivot from the original members understanding.

Pagan beliefs were officially instituted that the writers of the gospels would have been shocked to see.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

It was TommyRadd who first introduced me to it... Apparently it's well understood by Judaism...

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

No arguing that

Rose42

Not a new subject and certainly no new material.

This forum is not for self promotion.