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E******n F***d...the Final Edict
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Apr 7, 2021 20:41:17   #
RandyBrian Loc: Texas
 
JohnCo wrote:
That does look like a well-considered perspective, though perhaps a little extreme. Judges are given some flexibility, called "judicial discretion". (But I don't know how this may vary across the different kinds of courts.) Some judges abuse their power; maybe they are exercising some wrong kind of discretion.

Though I'm no expert, I'll offer a scenario anyway -- something I've seen in the news somewhere:

There is a "3-strikes" law. A wide array of crimes appear to qualify as "strikes". If someone committed armed robbery and severely wounded a few people, in three such incidents, then we'd want a severe penalty because the crimes are repeated and severe. However, some people get "strikes" for minor offenses, leading to very severe penalties for very mild offenses.

I'm looking it up now: I find this: https://www.mintpressnews.com/supreme-court-strikes-down-unconstitutional-three-strikes-law/207222/. The final line in it is: "[N]o one should [serve] a life-sentence for bouncing checks!"

Now, the really proper way to address this, I think, is that legislatures should have passed better laws in the first place, and when they passed 3-strikes laws, they didn't get it quite right. The legislative remedy is that the legislature would have to revise the law as soon as possible and probably apply the revision retroactively. I believe the legislatures are sometimes rather slow to correct their mistakes.

Now, given that there is such a law which sometimes leads to over-severe consequences, and the law is written such that the over-severe consequences (very long prison terms) are mandatory in a wide array of circumstances, then I would like there to be, at least, some judicial discretion in the sentencing, such that the sentence might be softened if the offenses were minor or had mitigating circumstances. (I'm imagining this as a bench trial -- I'm not sure how this would play out in a jury trial, but the principles should be the same.) But if the legislature wrote mandatory very-severe sentences with no flexibility, in the law, then the judge would have no choice but to apply the extremely severe sentence, hence it's been characterized in that article as "a life-sentence for bouncing checks".

I wish I didn't have to trust a judge with anything, however, I'd prefer judicial discretion rather than a completely rigid "life-sentence for bouncing checks" kind of situation.

Another scenario is (historically, and depending on which state one is in) very long prison sentences for possessing small amounts of marijuana -- I think there needs to be some way to ease up on those kinds of nonviolent offenders, even when legislatures passed really draconian laws about them.

There are lots of situations where a person might be found with small amounts of marijuana, even some situations where the person didn't even know it was there.

Not only do I wish I didn't have to trust judges (nor juries), I also don't trust some of these legislatures to get everything right. The whole government is just something we have to work with because we'd be worse off without a government. So we need measured amounts of trust, and we continually try to make the government and laws better somehow.
That does look like a well-considered perspective,... (show quote)


Your point is well made, and I agree. With stipulations. A judge overriding a clear improper verdict is part of his job. A judge LESSENING a sentence because, as in your example, it is too extreme, is also part of his job. Where it is WRONG is when a judge declares a LAW to be improper, and orders it not to be followed or to be changed to what HE thinks is right. Please do not misunderstand. There are times when laws should be overturned, but by due process, not by a judge trying to implement his personal choice of what is "right" or "fair". He can and should address injustice in the case he is trying. He should NOT issue a blanket edict on the law itself. If a lot of judges are throwing out cases or reducing sentences, then it is time to reexamine the statutes.

Reply
Apr 7, 2021 22:19:57   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
son of witless wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4APbwb3meU

So I am the Heath Ledger character ? Unless you have another obscure reference, that is not the worst thing I have been referred to as. Wait, I must confess that I have not seen that movie in some time. I seem to remember the roles being reversed later on. So then I am the villain ? Well I like a good movie villain so again that is not near as bad as I am usually called on OPP.

Anytime I am not called a r****t or have my name pasted into an obscene picture on OPP, it's a good day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4APbwb3meU br br... (show quote)

You have a good perspective, and I like that in a person.

Reply
Apr 7, 2021 22:21:26   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
JohnCo wrote:
That does look like a well-considered perspective, though perhaps a little extreme. Judges are given some flexibility, called "judicial discretion". (But I don't know how this may vary across the different kinds of courts.) Some judges abuse their power; maybe they are exercising some wrong kind of discretion.

Though I'm no expert, I'll offer a scenario anyway -- something I've seen in the news somewhere:

There is a "3-strikes" law. A wide array of crimes appear to qualify as "strikes". If someone committed armed robbery and severely wounded a few people, in three such incidents, then we'd want a severe penalty because the crimes are repeated and severe. However, some people get "strikes" for minor offenses, leading to very severe penalties for very mild offenses.

I'm looking it up now: I find this: https://www.mintpressnews.com/supreme-court-strikes-down-unconstitutional-three-strikes-law/207222/. The final line in it is: "[N]o one should [serve] a life-sentence for bouncing checks!"

Now, the really proper way to address this, I think, is that legislatures should have passed better laws in the first place, and when they passed 3-strikes laws, they didn't get it quite right. The legislative remedy is that the legislature would have to revise the law as soon as possible and probably apply the revision retroactively. I believe the legislatures are sometimes rather slow to correct their mistakes.

Now, given that there is such a law which sometimes leads to over-severe consequences, and the law is written such that the over-severe consequences (very long prison terms) are mandatory in a wide array of circumstances, then I would like there to be, at least, some judicial discretion in the sentencing, such that the sentence might be softened if the offenses were minor or had mitigating circumstances. (I'm imagining this as a bench trial -- I'm not sure how this would play out in a jury trial, but the principles should be the same.) But if the legislature wrote mandatory very-severe sentences with no flexibility, in the law, then the judge would have no choice but to apply the extremely severe sentence, hence it's been characterized in that article as "a life-sentence for bouncing checks".

I wish I didn't have to trust a judge with anything, however, I'd prefer judicial discretion rather than a completely rigid "life-sentence for bouncing checks" kind of situation.

Another scenario is (historically, and depending on which state one is in) very long prison sentences for possessing small amounts of marijuana -- I think there needs to be some way to ease up on those kinds of nonviolent offenders, even when legislatures passed really draconian laws about them.

There are lots of situations where a person might be found with small amounts of marijuana, even some situations where the person didn't even know it was there.

Not only do I wish I didn't have to trust judges (nor juries), I also don't trust some of these legislatures to get everything right. The whole government is just something we have to work with because we'd be worse off without a government. So we need measured amounts of trust, and we continually try to make the government and laws better somehow.
That does look like a well-considered perspective,... (show quote)


Reply
 
 
Apr 8, 2021 07:33:56   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
son of witless wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4APbwb3meU

So I am the Heath Ledger character ? Unless you have another obscure reference, that is not the worst thing I have been referred to as. Wait, I must confess that I have not seen that movie in some time. I seem to remember the roles being reversed later on. So then I am the villain ? Well I like a good movie villain so again that is not near as bad as I am usually called on OPP.

Anytime I am not called a r****t or have my name pasted into an obscene picture on OPP, it's a good day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4APbwb3meU br br... (show quote)

So obscure that you picked up on it Those were the lines dropped on Heath Ledger's antagonist after losing their jousting match in 'A Knight's Tale'. As often as we may disagree, I would neither call you a r****t nor inject you into an obscene picture.

After all...as has been said to me, "You may be wrong-headed, but I still like ya'."

Reply
Apr 8, 2021 16:02:44   #
JohnCo
 
RandyBrian wrote:
Your point is well made, and I agree. With stipulations. A judge overriding a clear improper verdict is part of his job. A judge LESSENING a sentence because, as in your example, it is too extreme, is also part of his job. Where it is WRONG is when a judge declares a LAW to be improper, and orders it not to be followed or to be changed to what HE thinks is right. Please do not misunderstand. There are times when laws should be overturned, but by due process, not by a judge trying to implement his personal choice of what is "right" or "fair". He can and should address injustice in the case he is trying. He should NOT issue a blanket edict on the law itself. If a lot of judges are throwing out cases or reducing sentences, then it is time to reexamine the statutes.
Your point is well made, and I agree. With stipul... (show quote)


Well said.

I haven't thought a whole lot about how to overturn or modify bad laws, but for the meantime, what you say looks right.

Reply
Apr 8, 2021 19:31:19   #
son of witless
 
slatten49 wrote:
So obscure that you picked up on it Those were the lines dropped on Heath Ledger's antagonist after losing their jousting match in 'A Knight's Tale'. As often as we may disagree, I would neither call you a r****t nor inject you into an obscene picture.

After all...as has been said to me, "You may be wrong-headed, but I still like ya'."
img src="https://static.onepoliticalplaza.com/ima... (show quote)


I love obscure movie references. I use them. A lot. The obscene pictures were quite abundant here 3-5 years ago. Not that I'm a prude, it is just that they were d********g and over done. I had the idea that if I had retaliated in kind, which is my instinct to do, I would have been banned. Not a bad tactic. Provoke someone into getting themselves removed.

I am not used to sparring with someone who plays by rules as I play by rules. I think I can adjust to having a non barbarian tell me I'm full of ***t.

Reply
Apr 10, 2021 15:10:27   #
Radiance3
 
slatten49 wrote:
Two Trump supporters die and go to Heaven.

They ask God if he'd answer one question.

"Of course," God says.

They ask how the Democrats r****d the e******n in 2020.

"It wasn't r****d," God replies.

The Trump supporters look at each other and say, "This conspiracy goes higher than we thought "
Two Trump supporters die and go to Heaven. br br ... (show quote)

================
Non-sense idea. Did God talk to you? The e******n was r****d massively in so many ways. Biden could never be a president without stealing about 25 million v**es from president Donald Trump.

Now millions of illegitimate v**es are coming out in PA, WI, AZ, GA, and NV. The whole world knows the 2020 e******n was s****n. US now becomes subservient to China in all matters on the economy, national defense, and worldwide technology after stealing from the US.

These were the voters of Biden
These were the voters of Biden...

These were the voters of president Trump
These were the voters of president Trump...

Reply
 
 
Apr 11, 2021 00:20:27   #
federally indicted mattoid
 
Radiance3 wrote:
================
Non-sense idea. Did God talk to you? The e******n was r****d massively in so many ways. Biden could never be a president without stealing about 25 million v**es from president Donald Trump.

Now millions of illegitimate v**es are coming out in PA, WI, AZ, GA, and NV. The whole world knows the 2020 e******n was s****n. US now becomes subservient to China in all matters on the economy, national defense, and worldwide technology after stealing from the US.



These are the v**ers that Chump exposed to a communicable disease.

Did you read, Rad, that 400,000 avoidable deaths were caused by Chump's non-response?

Give him $$ anyway!! He needs it.

Reply
Apr 11, 2021 03:53:44   #
Radiance3
 
useful mattoid 45 wrote:
These are the v**ers that Chump exposed to a communicable disease.

Did you read, Rad, that 400,000 avoidable deaths were caused by Chump's non-response?

Give him $$ anyway!! He needs it.

=================
Your lies and behavior does not interest me.

Reply
Apr 11, 2021 14:58:51   #
RandyBrian Loc: Texas
 
useful mattoid 45 wrote:
These are the v**ers that Chump exposed to a communicable disease.

Did you read, Rad, that 400,000 avoidable deaths were caused by Chump's non-response?

Give him $$ anyway!! He needs it.


Useful, that is nonsense collected from the rear end of a male bovine. It has also been debunked a dozen times on OPP. I know that you know this. You are just doing the l*****t mantra of ignoring facts and repeating lies, hoping that people will be gullible enough to believe it.
Facts:
It is a p******c.
People are going to catch it and die.
President Trump responded FASTER than any democrat wanted him to, and received mass attacks for doing so.
President Trump sliced through mass red tape to get us treatments and v*****es as fast as possible.
President Trump initiated procedures in anticipation of v*****es and methods to get them to the public asap.
Democrats used the above to attack Trump for purely political reasons, and because he would not illegally mandate face masks. No other reason.
There is zero zip nada evidence that Trump rallies became "superspreaders".
President Biden has almost totally followed Trump established procedures in combating the p******c. Nothing new, nothing innovative, nothing to "end the p******c in months" as his supporters claimed he would do.
All of which add up to one thing. The bovine excrement I mentioned earlier. You want to argue any of the above stated facts? Fine. Let's have at it.

Reply
Apr 11, 2021 19:57:30   #
Radiance3
 
RandyBrian wrote:
Useful, that is nonsense collected from the rear end of a male bovine. It has also been debunked a dozen times on OPP. I know that you know this. You are just doing the l*****t mantra of ignoring facts and repeating lies, hoping that people will be gullible enough to believe it.
Facts:
It is a p******c.
People are going to catch it and die.
President Trump responded FASTER than any democrat wanted him to, and received mass attacks for doing so.
President Trump sliced through mass red tape to get us treatments and v*****es as fast as possible.
President Trump initiated procedures in anticipation of v*****es and methods to get them to the public asap.
Democrats used the above to attack Trump for purely political reasons, and because he would not illegally mandate face masks. No other reason.
There is zero zip nada evidence that Trump rallies became "superspreaders".
President Biden has almost totally followed Trump established procedures in combating the p******c. Nothing new, nothing innovative, nothing to "end the p******c in months" as his supporters claimed he would do.
All of which add up to one thing. The bovine excrement I mentioned earlier. You want to argue any of the above stated facts? Fine. Let's have at it.
Useful, that is nonsense collected from the rear e... (show quote)

================


Reply
 
 
Apr 11, 2021 20:01:26   #
Radiance3
 
Radiance3 wrote:

================
President Trump has effective leadership. Everything gets done and on time. He left Biden everything he needs for the p******c. Biden has not done anything but lied and complained.

br ================ br President Trump has effect... (show quote)

Reply
Apr 12, 2021 01:33:54   #
federally indicted mattoid
 
RandyBrian wrote:
Useful, that is nonsense collected from the rear end of a male bovine. It has also been debunked a dozen times on OPP. I know that you know this. You are just doing the l*****t mantra of ignoring facts and repeating lies, hoping that people will be gullible enough to believe it.
Facts:
It is a p******c.
People are going to catch it and die.
President Trump responded FASTER than any democrat wanted him to, and received mass attacks for doing so.
President Trump sliced through mass red tape to get us treatments and v*****es as fast as possible.
President Trump initiated procedures in anticipation of v*****es and methods to get them to the public asap.
Democrats used the above to attack Trump for purely political reasons, and because he would not illegally mandate face masks. No other reason.
There is zero zip nada evidence that Trump rallies became "superspreaders".
President Biden has almost totally followed Trump established procedures in combating the p******c. Nothing new, nothing innovative, nothing to "end the p******c in months" as his supporters claimed he would do.
All of which add up to one thing. The bovine excrement I mentioned earlier. You want to argue any of the above stated facts? Fine. Let's have at it.
Useful, that is nonsense collected from the rear e... (show quote)


Lol, you've been hornswoggled, RB

Quite the opposite is true. My main man chump held maskless rallies for the gullible rubes, solicited donations from u2, then made them recurring donations, whether you wanted to or not.

People were infected unnecessarily.

Why, RB, I think you MAY be a diehard blowhard. Fun to be around, no doubt ;)

Reply
Apr 12, 2021 03:39:17   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
useful mattoid 45 wrote:
Lol, you've been hornswoggled, RB

Quite the opposite is true. My main man chump held maskless rallies for the gullible rubes, solicited donations from u2, then made them recurring donations, whether you wanted to or not.

People were infected unnecessarily.

Why, RB, I think you MAY be a diehard blowhard. Fun to be around, no doubt ;)


There is a box for one-time or recurring.
What were they infected with?
Other than you with Trump derangement syndrome.

Reply
Apr 12, 2021 07:32:41   #
RandyBrian Loc: Texas
 
useful mattoid 45 wrote:
Lol, you've been hornswoggled, RB

Quite the opposite is true. My main man chump held maskless rallies for the gullible rubes, solicited donations from u2, then made them recurring donations, whether you wanted to or not.

People were infected unnecessarily.

Why, RB, I think you MAY be a diehard blowhard. Fun to be around, no doubt ;)


LOL !
And you people call US gullible! OK. Since you have no desire, or maybe ability, to discuss facts, I guess we are done here. Have yourself a good week, and stay safe. Watch your back, because the democrats will plant a knife in it as you willingly turn around.

Reply
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