One Political Plaza - Home of politics
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main
The Myth of the Missing Black Father
Aug 23, 2014 12:16:28   #
CDM Loc: Florida
 
In an effort to look at the question of black parenting beyond the tired statistical rhetoric that is repeated ad nauseam in the media I decided to attack it from another perspective. This is an article from an interesting magazine, Black Fatherhood Today. The magazines mission is to promote the black family. I found it to be sincere.

This is the introduction to the book The Myth of the Missing Black Father published by Columbia University Press. This introduction presents food for thought about the issue that we the general population are not exposed to as frequently as we are the 'news' of statistics. I have ordered the book.

This is not posted to start a discussion so much as to present a different point of view for those interested in a broader understanding of the facets of the race problem that continues to plague our domestic integrity and peace.


The Myth of the Missing Black Father
by Roberta L. Coles and Charles Green

Introduction

The black male. A demographic. A sociological construct. A media caricature. A crime statistic. Aside from rage or lust, he is seldom seen as an emotionally embodied person. Rarely a father. Indeed, if one judged by popular and academic coverage, one might think the term "black fatherhood" an oxymoron. 

In their parenting role, African American men are viewed as verbs but not nouns; that is, it is frequently assumed that Black men father children but seldom are fathers. Instead, as the law professor Dorothy Roberts (1998) suggests in her article "The Absent Black Father," black men have become the symbol of fatherlessness. Consequently, they are rarely depicted as deeply embedded within and essential to their families of procreation. This stereotype is so pervasive that when black men are seen parenting, as Mark Anthony Neal (2005) has personally observed in his memoir, they are virtually offered a Nobel Prize. 

But this stereotype did not arise from thin air. Only 16 percent of African American households were married couples with children, the lowest of all racial groups in America. On the other hand, 19 percent of Black households were female-headed with children, the highest of all racial groups. From the perspective of children's living arrangements over 50 percent of African American children lived in mother-only households in 2004, again the highest of all racial groups. Although African American teens experienced the largest decline in births of all racial groups in the 1990s, still in 2000, 68 percent of all births to African American women were nonmarital, suggesting the pattern of single-mother parenting may be sustained for some time into the future (Martin et al. 2003). This statistic could easily lead observers to assume that the fathers are absent.

While it would be remiss to argue that there are not many absent black fathers, absence is only one slice of the fatherhood pie and a smaller slice than is normally thought. The problem with "absence," as is fairly well established now, is that it's an ill defined pejorative concept usually denoting nonresidence with the child, and it is sometimes assumed in cases where there is no legal marriage to the mother. More importantly, absence connotes invisibility and noninvolvement, which further investigation has proven to be exaggerated (as will be discussed below). Furthermore, statistics on children's living arrangements also indicate that nearly 41 percent of black children live with their fathers, either in a married or cohabiting couple household or with a single dad.

These African American family-structure trends are reflections of large-scale societal trends--historical, economic, and demographic--that have affected all American families over the past centuries. T***sformations of the American society from an agricultural to an industrial economy and, more recently, from an industrial to a service economy entailed adjustments in the timing of marriage, family structure, and the dynamics of family life. The t***sition from an industrial to a service economy has been accompanied by a movement of jobs out of cities; a decline in real wages for men; increased labor-force participation for women; a decline in fertility; postponement of marriage; and increases in divorce, nonmarital births, and single-parent and nonfamily households.These historical t***sformations of American society also led to changes in the expected and idealized roles of family members. According to Lamb (1986), during the agricultural era, fathers were expected to be the "moral teachers"; during industrialization, breadwinners and sex-role models; and during the service economy, nurturers. It is doubtful that these idealized roles were as discrete as implied. In fact, LaRossa's (1997) history of the first half of the 1900s reveals that public calls for nurturing, involved fathers existed before the modern era. It is likely that many men had trouble fulfilling these idealized roles despite the legal buttress of patriarchy, but it was surely difficult for African American men to fulfill these roles in the context of s***ery, segregation, and, even today, more modern forms of discrimination. A comparison of the socioeconomic status of black and white fathers illustrates some of the disadvantages black fathers must surmount to fulfill fathering expectations. According to Hernandez and Brandon (2002), in 1999 only 33.4 percent of black fathers had attained at least a college education, compared to 68.5 percent of white fathers. In 1998, 25.5 percent of black fathers were un- or underemployed, while 17.4 percent of white fathers fell into that category. Nearly 23 percent of black fathers' income was half of the poverty threshold, while 15 percent of white fathers had incomes that low.

The historical t***sformations were experienced across racial groups but not to the same extent. The family forms of all racial groups in America have become more diverse, or at least recognition of the diversity of family structure has increased, but the proportions of family types vary across racial groups. Because African American employment was more highly concentrated in blue-collar jobs, recent economic restructuring had harsher implications for black communities and families (Nelson 2004). The higher and more concentrated poverty levels and greater income and wealth ine******y--both among African Americans and between African Americans and w****s--expose African American men, directly and indirectly, to continued lower life expectancy, higher mortality, and, hence, a skewed g****r ratio that leaves black women outnumbering black men by the age of eighteen.

All of these societal and family-level trends affect black men's propensity to parent and their styles of parenting in ways we have yet to fully articulate. For instance, Americans in general have responded to these trends by postponing marriage by two to four years over the last few decades, but that trend is quite pronounced among African Americans, to the point that it is estimated that whereas 93 percent of w****s born from 1960 through 1964 will eventually marry, only 64 percent of b****s born in the same period ever will (Goldstein and Kenney 2001). Consequently, in 1970 married-couple families accounted for about 68 percent of all black families, but in 2000, after several decades of deindustrialization, only 46 percent were married couples. The downstream effect of marriage decline is that the majority of black children no longer live in married-couple homes.

Certainly, the skewed g****r ratio mentioned earlier contributes to this declining marriage trend, but the role of other factors is under debate. Wilson (1987) and others have suggested that black men's underemployment, along with black women's higher educational attainment in relation to black men (and smaller wage gap than between white men and women, according to Roberts 1994) may decrease both men's and women's desire to marry and may hinder some black men's efforts to be involved fathers (Marsiglio and Cohan 2000). However, other research (Lerman 1989; Ellwood and Crane 1990) has found that even college-educated and employed black men have exhibited declines in marriage, and yet additional research points to attitudinal factors (South 1993; Tucker and Mitchell-Kernan 1995; Crissey 2005), with black men desiring marriage less than white and Latino men.

Other parenting trends may also be affected by black men's unique status. Their higher mortality rate and lower life expectancy may affect the timeline of parenting, increasing pressure to reproduce earlier. If married or cohabiting, black women's higher employment rate may increase the amount of time black men spend with their children (F*gan 1998). Higher poverty and collective values also pull extended family members into the mix, diffusing parenting responsibilities, which may lead to more protective or more neglectful styles of parenting.

Because of these society-wide and race-specific changes in family formation and g****r roles, academia and popular culture have exhibited an increasing fascination with the diversifying definitions of masculinity and the roles men play in families, particularly as fathers. Research and publications on fatherhood have increased exponentially, and courses on fatherhood are popping up in the nation's colleges and universities. However, most of the research has been based on samples of respondents who are all racially white. And when men of color have been included in small numbers, the researchers do not address race as a variable; hence their conclusions are stated generically.

Reply
Aug 23, 2014 16:12:21   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
This is refreshing. Thank you for the post. Now when I hear of a black who is sitting in jail complaining that he should be given special treatment because he was raised in a nontraditional home, I can ignore him. And when another black person is shot after robbing a store, none of his family should be able to claim that he was a good kid, just raised in a nontraditional home. And this list goes on and on. So, thank you again. Another excuse for bad behavior has been taken off their list of items or individuals they came blame.

CDM wrote:
In an effort to look at the question of black parenting beyond the tired statistical rhetoric that is repeated ad nauseam in the media I decided to attack it from another perspective. This is an article from an interesting magazine, Black Fatherhood Today. The magazines mission is to promote the black family. I found it to be sincere.

This is the introduction to the book The Myth of the Missing Black Father published by Columbia University Press. This introduction presents food for thought about the issue that we the general population are not exposed to as frequently as we are the 'news' of statistics. I have ordered the book.

This is not posted to start a discussion so much as to present a different point of view for those interested in a broader understanding of the facets of the race problem that continues to plague our domestic integrity and peace.


The Myth of the Missing Black Father
by Roberta L. Coles and Charles Green

Introduction

The black male. A demographic. A sociological construct. A media caricature. A crime statistic. Aside from rage or lust, he is seldom seen as an emotionally embodied person. Rarely a father. Indeed, if one judged by popular and academic coverage, one might think the term "black fatherhood" an oxymoron. 

In their parenting role, African American men are viewed as verbs but not nouns; that is, it is frequently assumed that Black men father children but seldom are fathers. Instead, as the law professor Dorothy Roberts (1998) suggests in her article "The Absent Black Father," black men have become the symbol of fatherlessness. Consequently, they are rarely depicted as deeply embedded within and essential to their families of procreation. This stereotype is so pervasive that when black men are seen parenting, as Mark Anthony Neal (2005) has personally observed in his memoir, they are virtually offered a Nobel Prize. 

But this stereotype did not arise from thin air. Only 16 percent of African American households were married couples with children, the lowest of all racial groups in America. On the other hand, 19 percent of Black households were female-headed with children, the highest of all racial groups. From the perspective of children's living arrangements over 50 percent of African American children lived in mother-only households in 2004, again the highest of all racial groups. Although African American teens experienced the largest decline in births of all racial groups in the 1990s, still in 2000, 68 percent of all births to African American women were nonmarital, suggesting the pattern of single-mother parenting may be sustained for some time into the future (Martin et al. 2003). This statistic could easily lead observers to assume that the fathers are absent.

While it would be remiss to argue that there are not many absent black fathers, absence is only one slice of the fatherhood pie and a smaller slice than is normally thought. The problem with "absence," as is fairly well established now, is that it's an ill defined pejorative concept usually denoting nonresidence with the child, and it is sometimes assumed in cases where there is no legal marriage to the mother. More importantly, absence connotes invisibility and noninvolvement, which further investigation has proven to be exaggerated (as will be discussed below). Furthermore, statistics on children's living arrangements also indicate that nearly 41 percent of black children live with their fathers, either in a married or cohabiting couple household or with a single dad.

These African American family-structure trends are reflections of large-scale societal trends--historical, economic, and demographic--that have affected all American families over the past centuries. T***sformations of the American society from an agricultural to an industrial economy and, more recently, from an industrial to a service economy entailed adjustments in the timing of marriage, family structure, and the dynamics of family life. The t***sition from an industrial to a service economy has been accompanied by a movement of jobs out of cities; a decline in real wages for men; increased labor-force participation for women; a decline in fertility; postponement of marriage; and increases in divorce, nonmarital births, and single-parent and nonfamily households.These historical t***sformations of American society also led to changes in the expected and idealized roles of family members. According to Lamb (1986), during the agricultural era, fathers were expected to be the "moral teachers"; during industrialization, breadwinners and sex-role models; and during the service economy, nurturers. It is doubtful that these idealized roles were as discrete as implied. In fact, LaRossa's (1997) history of the first half of the 1900s reveals that public calls for nurturing, involved fathers existed before the modern era. It is likely that many men had trouble fulfilling these idealized roles despite the legal buttress of patriarchy, but it was surely difficult for African American men to fulfill these roles in the context of s***ery, segregation, and, even today, more modern forms of discrimination. A comparison of the socioeconomic status of black and white fathers illustrates some of the disadvantages black fathers must surmount to fulfill fathering expectations. According to Hernandez and Brandon (2002), in 1999 only 33.4 percent of black fathers had attained at least a college education, compared to 68.5 percent of white fathers. In 1998, 25.5 percent of black fathers were un- or underemployed, while 17.4 percent of white fathers fell into that category. Nearly 23 percent of black fathers' income was half of the poverty threshold, while 15 percent of white fathers had incomes that low.

The historical t***sformations were experienced across racial groups but not to the same extent. The family forms of all racial groups in America have become more diverse, or at least recognition of the diversity of family structure has increased, but the proportions of family types vary across racial groups. Because African American employment was more highly concentrated in blue-collar jobs, recent economic restructuring had harsher implications for black communities and families (Nelson 2004). The higher and more concentrated poverty levels and greater income and wealth ine******y--both among African Americans and between African Americans and w****s--expose African American men, directly and indirectly, to continued lower life expectancy, higher mortality, and, hence, a skewed g****r ratio that leaves black women outnumbering black men by the age of eighteen.

All of these societal and family-level trends affect black men's propensity to parent and their styles of parenting in ways we have yet to fully articulate. For instance, Americans in general have responded to these trends by postponing marriage by two to four years over the last few decades, but that trend is quite pronounced among African Americans, to the point that it is estimated that whereas 93 percent of w****s born from 1960 through 1964 will eventually marry, only 64 percent of b****s born in the same period ever will (Goldstein and Kenney 2001). Consequently, in 1970 married-couple families accounted for about 68 percent of all black families, but in 2000, after several decades of deindustrialization, only 46 percent were married couples. The downstream effect of marriage decline is that the majority of black children no longer live in married-couple homes.

Certainly, the skewed g****r ratio mentioned earlier contributes to this declining marriage trend, but the role of other factors is under debate. Wilson (1987) and others have suggested that black men's underemployment, along with black women's higher educational attainment in relation to black men (and smaller wage gap than between white men and women, according to Roberts 1994) may decrease both men's and women's desire to marry and may hinder some black men's efforts to be involved fathers (Marsiglio and Cohan 2000). However, other research (Lerman 1989; Ellwood and Crane 1990) has found that even college-educated and employed black men have exhibited declines in marriage, and yet additional research points to attitudinal factors (South 1993; Tucker and Mitchell-Kernan 1995; Crissey 2005), with black men desiring marriage less than white and Latino men.

Other parenting trends may also be affected by black men's unique status. Their higher mortality rate and lower life expectancy may affect the timeline of parenting, increasing pressure to reproduce earlier. If married or cohabiting, black women's higher employment rate may increase the amount of time black men spend with their children (F*gan 1998). Higher poverty and collective values also pull extended family members into the mix, diffusing parenting responsibilities, which may lead to more protective or more neglectful styles of parenting.

Because of these society-wide and race-specific changes in family formation and g****r roles, academia and popular culture have exhibited an increasing fascination with the diversifying definitions of masculinity and the roles men play in families, particularly as fathers. Research and publications on fatherhood have increased exponentially, and courses on fatherhood are popping up in the nation's colleges and universities. However, most of the research has been based on samples of respondents who are all racially white. And when men of color have been included in small numbers, the researchers do not address race as a variable; hence their conclusions are stated generically.
In an effort to look at the question of black pare... (show quote)

Reply
Aug 24, 2014 08:35:49   #
1OldGeezer
 
CDM wrote:
In an effort to look at the question of black parenting beyond the tired statistical rhetoric that is repeated ad nauseam in the media I decided to attack it from another perspective. This is an article from an interesting magazine, Black Fatherhood Today. The magazines mission is to promote the black family. I found it to be sincere.

This is the introduction to the book The Myth of the Missing Black Father published by Columbia University Press. This introduction presents food for thought about the issue that we the general population are not exposed to as frequently as we are the 'news' of statistics. I have ordered the book.

This is not posted to start a discussion so much as to present a different point of view for those interested in a broader understanding of the facets of the race problem that continues to plague our domestic integrity and peace.


The Myth of the Missing Black Father
by Roberta L. Coles and Charles Green

Introduction

The black male. A demographic. A sociological construct. A media caricature. A crime statistic. Aside from rage or lust, he is seldom seen as an emotionally embodied person. Rarely a father. Indeed, if one judged by popular and academic coverage, one might think the term "black fatherhood" an oxymoron. 

In their parenting role, African American men are viewed as verbs but not nouns; that is, it is frequently assumed that Black men father children but seldom are fathers. Instead, as the law professor Dorothy Roberts (1998) suggests in her article "The Absent Black Father," black men have become the symbol of fatherlessness. Consequently, they are rarely depicted as deeply embedded within and essential to their families of procreation. This stereotype is so pervasive that when black men are seen parenting, as Mark Anthony Neal (2005) has personally observed in his memoir, they are virtually offered a Nobel Prize. 

But this stereotype did not arise from thin air. Only 16 percent of African American households were married couples with children, the lowest of all racial groups in America. On the other hand, 19 percent of Black households were female-headed with children, the highest of all racial groups. From the perspective of children's living arrangements over 50 percent of African American children lived in mother-only households in 2004, again the highest of all racial groups. Although African American teens experienced the largest decline in births of all racial groups in the 1990s, still in 2000, 68 percent of all births to African American women were nonmarital, suggesting the pattern of single-mother parenting may be sustained for some time into the future (Martin et al. 2003). This statistic could easily lead observers to assume that the fathers are absent.

While it would be remiss to argue that there are not many absent black fathers, absence is only one slice of the fatherhood pie and a smaller slice than is normally thought. The problem with "absence," as is fairly well established now, is that it's an ill defined pejorative concept usually denoting nonresidence with the child, and it is sometimes assumed in cases where there is no legal marriage to the mother. More importantly, absence connotes invisibility and noninvolvement, which further investigation has proven to be exaggerated (as will be discussed below). Furthermore, statistics on children's living arrangements also indicate that nearly 41 percent of black children live with their fathers, either in a married or cohabiting couple household or with a single dad.

These African American family-structure trends are reflections of large-scale societal trends--historical, economic, and demographic--that have affected all American families over the past centuries. T***sformations of the American society from an agricultural to an industrial economy and, more recently, from an industrial to a service economy entailed adjustments in the timing of marriage, family structure, and the dynamics of family life. The t***sition from an industrial to a service economy has been accompanied by a movement of jobs out of cities; a decline in real wages for men; increased labor-force participation for women; a decline in fertility; postponement of marriage; and increases in divorce, nonmarital births, and single-parent and nonfamily households.These historical t***sformations of American society also led to changes in the expected and idealized roles of family members. According to Lamb (1986), during the agricultural era, fathers were expected to be the "moral teachers"; during industrialization, breadwinners and sex-role models; and during the service economy, nurturers. It is doubtful that these idealized roles were as discrete as implied. In fact, LaRossa's (1997) history of the first half of the 1900s reveals that public calls for nurturing, involved fathers existed before the modern era. It is likely that many men had trouble fulfilling these idealized roles despite the legal buttress of patriarchy, but it was surely difficult for African American men to fulfill these roles in the context of s***ery, segregation, and, even today, more modern forms of discrimination. A comparison of the socioeconomic status of black and white fathers illustrates some of the disadvantages black fathers must surmount to fulfill fathering expectations. According to Hernandez and Brandon (2002), in 1999 only 33.4 percent of black fathers had attained at least a college education, compared to 68.5 percent of white fathers. In 1998, 25.5 percent of black fathers were un- or underemployed, while 17.4 percent of white fathers fell into that category. Nearly 23 percent of black fathers' income was half of the poverty threshold, while 15 percent of white fathers had incomes that low.

The historical t***sformations were experienced across racial groups but not to the same extent. The family forms of all racial groups in America have become more diverse, or at least recognition of the diversity of family structure has increased, but the proportions of family types vary across racial groups. Because African American employment was more highly concentrated in blue-collar jobs, recent economic restructuring had harsher implications for black communities and families (Nelson 2004). The higher and more concentrated poverty levels and greater income and wealth ine******y--both among African Americans and between African Americans and w****s--expose African American men, directly and indirectly, to continued lower life expectancy, higher mortality, and, hence, a skewed g****r ratio that leaves black women outnumbering black men by the age of eighteen.

All of these societal and family-level trends affect black men's propensity to parent and their styles of parenting in ways we have yet to fully articulate. For instance, Americans in general have responded to these trends by postponing marriage by two to four years over the last few decades, but that trend is quite pronounced among African Americans, to the point that it is estimated that whereas 93 percent of w****s born from 1960 through 1964 will eventually marry, only 64 percent of b****s born in the same period ever will (Goldstein and Kenney 2001). Consequently, in 1970 married-couple families accounted for about 68 percent of all black families, but in 2000, after several decades of deindustrialization, only 46 percent were married couples. The downstream effect of marriage decline is that the majority of black children no longer live in married-couple homes.

Certainly, the skewed g****r ratio mentioned earlier contributes to this declining marriage trend, but the role of other factors is under debate. Wilson (1987) and others have suggested that black men's underemployment, along with black women's higher educational attainment in relation to black men (and smaller wage gap than between white men and women, according to Roberts 1994) may decrease both men's and women's desire to marry and may hinder some black men's efforts to be involved fathers (Marsiglio and Cohan 2000). However, other research (Lerman 1989; Ellwood and Crane 1990) has found that even college-educated and employed black men have exhibited declines in marriage, and yet additional research points to attitudinal factors (South 1993; Tucker and Mitchell-Kernan 1995; Crissey 2005), with black men desiring marriage less than white and Latino men.

Other parenting trends may also be affected by black men's unique status. Their higher mortality rate and lower life expectancy may affect the timeline of parenting, increasing pressure to reproduce earlier. If married or cohabiting, black women's higher employment rate may increase the amount of time black men spend with their children (F*gan 1998). Higher poverty and collective values also pull extended family members into the mix, diffusing parenting responsibilities, which may lead to more protective or more neglectful styles of parenting.

Because of these society-wide and race-specific changes in family formation and g****r roles, academia and popular culture have exhibited an increasing fascination with the diversifying definitions of masculinity and the roles men play in families, particularly as fathers. Research and publications on fatherhood have increased exponentially, and courses on fatherhood are popping up in the nation's colleges and universities. However, most of the research has been based on samples of respondents who are all racially white. And when men of color have been included in small numbers, the researchers do not address race as a variable; hence their conclusions are stated generically.
In an effort to look at the question of black pare... (show quote)


CDM

After reading this I come away feeling I don't really have enough information to draw any conclusions, it is a "listing" of symptoms without any real info about he causes.

If it were mostly a skin color problem (bias because of skin color alone) how can you explain the MANY black persons who have and are excelling in our society?

I suspect it is a "color" problem but only in the context of how the "victims" are identified and made to feel like a group that has been victimized by society (old white men). This is being done by the race hustlers (monetary gain) and politicians who stand to gain by convincing this group that they are being discriminated against only because of color and that they are not good enough to succeed without government special treatment (therefore v**e for expanded government).

This, and encouragement and support by our present generous welfare system, for a non working lifestyle does create a group with a distinct culture of resentment and disdain for authority. Discrimination is present in our society today but it is a bias against the created CULTURE of this group of victims not against the COLOR of this group. (Color is simply a convenient, often wrong misguided identifier, not the source of the bias.)

The b****s, who do not succumb to the lure of the race hustlers and enablers, and take the hard way out (get educated and work at succeeding) know this as well as any "white" person does. Some black persons have even written books like "Please stop helping us". They have first hand knowledge of the problem and at least some of its causes.

1oldgeezer

Reply
 
 
Aug 24, 2014 11:08:20   #
CDM Loc: Florida
 
1OldGeezer wrote:
CDM

After reading this I come away feeling I don't really have enough information to draw any conclusions, it is a "listing" of symptoms without any real info about he causes.

If it were mostly a skin color problem (bias because of skin color alone) how can you explain the MANY black persons who have and are excelling in our society?

I suspect it is a "color" problem but only in the context of how the "victims" are identified and made to feel like a group that has been victimized by society (old white men). This is being done by the race hustlers (monetary gain) and politicians who stand to gain by convincing this group that they are being discriminated against only because of color and that they are not good enough to succeed without government special treatment (therefore v**e for expanded government).

This, and encouragement and support by our present generous welfare system, for a non working lifestyle does create a group with a distinct culture of resentment and disdain for authority. Discrimination is present in our society today but it is a bias against the created CULTURE of this group of victims not against the COLOR of this group. (Color is simply a convenient, often wrong misguided identifier, not the source of the bias.)

The b****s, who do not succumb to the lure of the race hustlers and enablers, and take the hard way out (get educated and work at succeeding) know this as well as any "white" person does. Some black persons have even written books like "Please stop helping us". They have first hand knowledge of the problem and at least some of its causes.

1oldgeezer
CDM br br After reading this I come away feeling ... (show quote)



Old; I understand what you are saying. As I mentioned this is the introduction to a book. I have ordered the book and will see what I can glean from that. I don't have any preconceived notions of what it might contain. I do however anticipate that to be legitimate it will have to expand on these 'symptomatic' data and show direct cause and effect.

Your comments regarding culture vs. color are relevant. Many of the 'legitimate' leaders of the black community and those of wisdom who speak of and for their race have long been concerned that we have created an 'entitlement class' of citizen if you will who is identified by behavior first that has become consistent with a skin color. At the same time there are millions of black people who have not bought into this culture and participate in society right next to the 'old fat white guy'. So it can be done.

Not to oversimplify this or make entitlement a convenient excuse , there is unquestionably a r****t element in our society. It's a two way street though; 'old fat white guys' and 'old fat black guys' figuratively speaking. And of course Follow The Money...always...

I will let you know what's in the book.

Reply
Aug 25, 2014 08:32:16   #
1OldGeezer
 
CDM wrote:
Old; I understand what you are saying. As I mentioned this is the introduction to a book. I have ordered the book and will see what I can glean from that. I don't have any preconceived notions of what it might contain. I do however anticipate that to be legitimate it will have to expand on these 'symptomatic' data and show direct cause and effect.

Your comments regarding culture vs. color are relevant. Many of the 'legitimate' leaders of the black community and those of wisdom who speak of and for their race have long been concerned that we have created an 'entitlement class' of citizen if you will who is identified by behavior first that has become consistent with a skin color. At the same time there are millions of black people who have not bought into this culture and participate in society right next to the 'old fat white guy'. So it can be done.

Not to oversimplify this or make entitlement a convenient excuse , there is unquestionably a r****t element in our society. It's a two way street though; 'old fat white guys' and 'old fat black guys' figuratively speaking. And of course Follow The Money...always...

I will let you know what's in the book.
Old; I understand what you are saying. As I mentio... (show quote)


CDM,

Right on... :thumbup:

There is certainly a r****t element in our society, which, I believe, is drastically overstated. "we" are using the strategy of listing the "exceptions" instead of the "rule" to argue a point. The problem has been made worse by what "we" (politicians, shysters, and other well meaning people) are doing about it. "We" have decided to cure racial discrimination by discriminating based on race (quotas) which generally only keeps it alive and creates more resentment.
"Discrimination" will always be with us, it is a part of our nature if we are to survive and prosper. I expect we will always have a bias against bad behavior and/or criminals.

We will never solve the "racial bias" in this country until we address the behavior problems (unintended consequences?) which seem to be the result of deliberate actions by our politicians. (Questions which need to be answered.. Which party normally receives 90% + of the black v**e? Are the races being purposely divided? Why? Are all persons in the other political party r****ts? Is this happening just by chance?)

Statistics can generally tell you what is happening, even "causes" of secondary problems, but rarely will tell you the "root" cause of a condition, for that you need to consider the "statistics" with an open mind. Treating "symptoms" rarely solves the problem, sometimes makes it worse.

Is poverty a cause or a result (symptom) of individual behavior? Do we need to consider behavior and what is causing the behavior if we want the problem solved?

Just some thoughts..

1oldgeezer

Reply
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main
OnePoliticalPlaza.com - Forum
Copyright 2012-2024 IDF International Technologies, Inc.