What trump supporters believe
Dec 10, 2020 12:28:05 #
Here’s what Donald Trump’s supporters really believe about the e******n and his c**p attempt
Published 8 hours ago on December 10, 2020 By Amanda Marcotte, Salon - Commentary
Do Republican v**ers really believe that Joe Biden s***e the e******n from Donald Trump? Do they sincerely see Trump’s efforts to overturn the e******n as the legitimate actions of a wronged man trying to defend democracy? When they declare “stop the steal,” are they truly unaware that they are the ones trying to steal this e******n from the rightful winners?
Or are millions of Americans arguing in bad faith, merely claiming to believe Trump is the true winner? Is this all just a disingenuous song-and-dance, meant to put a morally justifiable gloss on what is actually widespread support among Trump v**ers for a c**p? The answer to this question of “delusion or bad faith?” matters quite a bit, as Trump continues to prosecute his futile campaign to steal the 2020 e******n.
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Polls show that a hefty majority of Republican v**ers — 68%, according to Reuters/Ipsos — say they believe the 2020 e******n was “r****d” in Biden’s favor. Since the e******n, more than $200 million has flowed into Trump’s coffers from Republican donors responding to emails promising to “stop the steal.” Are these donors innocent lambs who sincerely believe that Trump is a good man done wrong? Or are they people who are actively seeking to finance a c**p, employing the flimsiest of excuses?
Well, as the author of a book called “Troll Nation,” it’s clear where I stand: By and large, Republican v**ers who claim that Biden s***e the e******n are arguing from bad faith, not delusion.
This distinction is important because it shows that the intentions of Republican v**ers (and too many of their elected leaders) are sinister, and need to be taken seriously as an overt assault on democracy. Understanding modern politics means understanding one crucial reality about the current landscape: Conservatives don’t hold beliefs, they only have rationalizations.
Many of their long-standing beliefs don’t hold up to modern moral standards or rational scrutiny. Rather than give up those beliefs, however, Republicans have developed a series of disingenuous gambits, conspiracy theories and trolling tactics to derail conversations, sow confusion and otherwise distract those who would challenge their indefensible ideology.
Of course, it’s morally indefensible to come right out and say you care more about keeping your gas guzzler than protecting the planet. So, instead, conservatives claim to be “skeptical” of climate science, wasting their interlocutor’s time by forcing them to prove, over and over and over and over again, that c*****e c****e is real. Similarly, open contempt for women’s rights is hard to argue, so instead, conservatives will claim concern for “fetal life” to justify support for forced childbirth — even though none of their other policy preferences point to concern about the wellbeing of children, much less fetuses.
Poll numbers showing that Republican v**ers “believe” that Trump lost the e******n are more of the same.
Conservatives know better than to openly argue that Democratic v**es shouldn’t be counted. So instead they concoct this elaborate conspiracy theory, painting themselves as the victims of v***r f***d in order to justify an illegal effort to steal the e******n. The current situation is similar to the last time there was a widespread conspiracy theory aimed at delegitimizing a duly elected Democratic president. During Barack Obama’s presidency, polling showed that large numbers of Republicans, often a majority, expressed “skepticism” that Obama was a natural-born citizen and therefore legally eligible to be president. As is the case now, Trump was a ringleader in pushing this “birther” conspiracy theory, helping to mainstream claims that Obama’s presidency was illegitimate.
But did Republican v**ers really believe that Obama was born in Kenya? Or was it just a cover story for their real but unspeakable r****t opposition to a Black man being president?
A 2014 study by Stanford researchers suggests strongly that for most birthers the conspiracy theory was bad faith and not a sincere error. The researchers compared different polls and found that how the poll questions were worded made a huge difference in conservative adherence to birtherism. When pollsters reminded respondents that only “natural-born” citizens can become president, nearly 60% of Republican v**ers readily denied Obama’s citizenship. But when polls framed it as a test of knowledge of facts, by asking respondents where Obama was born, only 31% of conservatives espoused birther beliefs. These findings suggest that most conservatives weren’t confused about where Obama was born. The conspiracy theory was just a way to express r****t beliefs about the inherent illegitimacy of Black leaders by asking “questions” about Obama’s birth certificate.
Trump knows how to tickle this r****t impulse in his followers and, unsurprisingly, his claims that Biden “stole” the e******n follow the same formula. Trump and his main henchman, Rudy Giuliani, have specifically accused Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee and Atlanta — all cities where B***k A******ns are either a majority or a plurality of residents — of having “dumps” of illegal b****ts.
The appeal of this conspiracy theory to r****ts isn’t subtle. It’s a way to deny the legitimacy of Black v**ers without coming right out and saying it. This isn’t just a conspiracy theory about Trump’s fragile ego. It speaks directly to long-standing right-wing fury at minority v****g rights. Historian Jeffrey Herf notes another historical precedent at play, comparing Trump’s conspiracy theory to the ones that rose up in Germany between the first and second world wars in a recent Washington Post op-ed:
[Trump’s] efforts to deny the reality of defeat and threaten democracy recall the most famous comparable episode in modern European history — the claims by the German military and diplomatic establishment that Germany had not been defeated militarily in World War I. Instead, they argued, Germany had been “stabbed in the back” by liberals, socialists, c*******ts and Jews who somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
In reality, Herf points out, the war was “lost because of the superiority of the Allied military” and German hubris leading to bad battlefield decisions. But claiming to believe otherwise gave conservative Germans a chance to save face and, perhaps more important, an excuse to bash other Germans — mostly l*****ts and Jews — who they didn’t want to acknowledge as equal citizens. Was it bad faith or misapprehension? As I note in a recent newsletter, Jean-Paul Sartre felt strongly it was the former at the time, and argued the “bad faith” case in his famous 1946 essay on anti-Semitism.
So why does it matter?
As Greg Sargent writes at the Washington Post, “What Republican v**ers think, or say they think, about who really won matters less than the fact that, as a consequence, they actively want their elected representatives to subvert our democracy and keep Trump in power illegitimately.”
Unfortunately, the belief that these folks are sincere in their claims that the e******n was “stolen” puts a glow of innocence on their actions. This leads many observers underestimate the seriousness of a situation where a large percentage of Americans are actively supporting a c**p. It also focuses attention away from what needs to be done to fight back. The “delusion” model of understanding Republican behavior suggests that education is the solution. That was thoroughly disproven in the Obama years, when even the release of his long-form birth certificate did little to discourage GOP v**ers from denying his legitimacy.
Instead, it’s important to see those who support Trump’s c**p for who they are: People who have been radicalized, through r****m h**eful propaganda and a sense of perpetual grievance, against democracy. They aren’t going to change their minds because of new facts, because the underlying belief — which is that they deserve to be in power, no matter what — is the problem here. It’s a rising American authoritarianism, and we underestimate it at our peril.
Published 8 hours ago on December 10, 2020 By Amanda Marcotte, Salon - Commentary
Do Republican v**ers really believe that Joe Biden s***e the e******n from Donald Trump? Do they sincerely see Trump’s efforts to overturn the e******n as the legitimate actions of a wronged man trying to defend democracy? When they declare “stop the steal,” are they truly unaware that they are the ones trying to steal this e******n from the rightful winners?
Or are millions of Americans arguing in bad faith, merely claiming to believe Trump is the true winner? Is this all just a disingenuous song-and-dance, meant to put a morally justifiable gloss on what is actually widespread support among Trump v**ers for a c**p? The answer to this question of “delusion or bad faith?” matters quite a bit, as Trump continues to prosecute his futile campaign to steal the 2020 e******n.
Take advantage of our limited time offer. Go ad-free for just $2 a week. Support independent journalism.
Polls show that a hefty majority of Republican v**ers — 68%, according to Reuters/Ipsos — say they believe the 2020 e******n was “r****d” in Biden’s favor. Since the e******n, more than $200 million has flowed into Trump’s coffers from Republican donors responding to emails promising to “stop the steal.” Are these donors innocent lambs who sincerely believe that Trump is a good man done wrong? Or are they people who are actively seeking to finance a c**p, employing the flimsiest of excuses?
Well, as the author of a book called “Troll Nation,” it’s clear where I stand: By and large, Republican v**ers who claim that Biden s***e the e******n are arguing from bad faith, not delusion.
This distinction is important because it shows that the intentions of Republican v**ers (and too many of their elected leaders) are sinister, and need to be taken seriously as an overt assault on democracy. Understanding modern politics means understanding one crucial reality about the current landscape: Conservatives don’t hold beliefs, they only have rationalizations.
Many of their long-standing beliefs don’t hold up to modern moral standards or rational scrutiny. Rather than give up those beliefs, however, Republicans have developed a series of disingenuous gambits, conspiracy theories and trolling tactics to derail conversations, sow confusion and otherwise distract those who would challenge their indefensible ideology.
Of course, it’s morally indefensible to come right out and say you care more about keeping your gas guzzler than protecting the planet. So, instead, conservatives claim to be “skeptical” of climate science, wasting their interlocutor’s time by forcing them to prove, over and over and over and over again, that c*****e c****e is real. Similarly, open contempt for women’s rights is hard to argue, so instead, conservatives will claim concern for “fetal life” to justify support for forced childbirth — even though none of their other policy preferences point to concern about the wellbeing of children, much less fetuses.
Poll numbers showing that Republican v**ers “believe” that Trump lost the e******n are more of the same.
Conservatives know better than to openly argue that Democratic v**es shouldn’t be counted. So instead they concoct this elaborate conspiracy theory, painting themselves as the victims of v***r f***d in order to justify an illegal effort to steal the e******n. The current situation is similar to the last time there was a widespread conspiracy theory aimed at delegitimizing a duly elected Democratic president. During Barack Obama’s presidency, polling showed that large numbers of Republicans, often a majority, expressed “skepticism” that Obama was a natural-born citizen and therefore legally eligible to be president. As is the case now, Trump was a ringleader in pushing this “birther” conspiracy theory, helping to mainstream claims that Obama’s presidency was illegitimate.
But did Republican v**ers really believe that Obama was born in Kenya? Or was it just a cover story for their real but unspeakable r****t opposition to a Black man being president?
A 2014 study by Stanford researchers suggests strongly that for most birthers the conspiracy theory was bad faith and not a sincere error. The researchers compared different polls and found that how the poll questions were worded made a huge difference in conservative adherence to birtherism. When pollsters reminded respondents that only “natural-born” citizens can become president, nearly 60% of Republican v**ers readily denied Obama’s citizenship. But when polls framed it as a test of knowledge of facts, by asking respondents where Obama was born, only 31% of conservatives espoused birther beliefs. These findings suggest that most conservatives weren’t confused about where Obama was born. The conspiracy theory was just a way to express r****t beliefs about the inherent illegitimacy of Black leaders by asking “questions” about Obama’s birth certificate.
Trump knows how to tickle this r****t impulse in his followers and, unsurprisingly, his claims that Biden “stole” the e******n follow the same formula. Trump and his main henchman, Rudy Giuliani, have specifically accused Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee and Atlanta — all cities where B***k A******ns are either a majority or a plurality of residents — of having “dumps” of illegal b****ts.
The appeal of this conspiracy theory to r****ts isn’t subtle. It’s a way to deny the legitimacy of Black v**ers without coming right out and saying it. This isn’t just a conspiracy theory about Trump’s fragile ego. It speaks directly to long-standing right-wing fury at minority v****g rights. Historian Jeffrey Herf notes another historical precedent at play, comparing Trump’s conspiracy theory to the ones that rose up in Germany between the first and second world wars in a recent Washington Post op-ed:
[Trump’s] efforts to deny the reality of defeat and threaten democracy recall the most famous comparable episode in modern European history — the claims by the German military and diplomatic establishment that Germany had not been defeated militarily in World War I. Instead, they argued, Germany had been “stabbed in the back” by liberals, socialists, c*******ts and Jews who somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
In reality, Herf points out, the war was “lost because of the superiority of the Allied military” and German hubris leading to bad battlefield decisions. But claiming to believe otherwise gave conservative Germans a chance to save face and, perhaps more important, an excuse to bash other Germans — mostly l*****ts and Jews — who they didn’t want to acknowledge as equal citizens. Was it bad faith or misapprehension? As I note in a recent newsletter, Jean-Paul Sartre felt strongly it was the former at the time, and argued the “bad faith” case in his famous 1946 essay on anti-Semitism.
So why does it matter?
As Greg Sargent writes at the Washington Post, “What Republican v**ers think, or say they think, about who really won matters less than the fact that, as a consequence, they actively want their elected representatives to subvert our democracy and keep Trump in power illegitimately.”
Unfortunately, the belief that these folks are sincere in their claims that the e******n was “stolen” puts a glow of innocence on their actions. This leads many observers underestimate the seriousness of a situation where a large percentage of Americans are actively supporting a c**p. It also focuses attention away from what needs to be done to fight back. The “delusion” model of understanding Republican behavior suggests that education is the solution. That was thoroughly disproven in the Obama years, when even the release of his long-form birth certificate did little to discourage GOP v**ers from denying his legitimacy.
Instead, it’s important to see those who support Trump’s c**p for who they are: People who have been radicalized, through r****m h**eful propaganda and a sense of perpetual grievance, against democracy. They aren’t going to change their minds because of new facts, because the underlying belief — which is that they deserve to be in power, no matter what — is the problem here. It’s a rising American authoritarianism, and we underestimate it at our peril.
Dec 10, 2020 12:51:06 #
moldyoldy wrote:
Here’s what Donald Trump’s supporters really belie... (show quote)
Your chump candidate literally had to steal the e******n...and is fairly caught.
But the media has 4 years of absolute BS they have to defend so there ya go there.
Biden/Harris is already history. You just don't know it yet.
Dec 10, 2020 13:25:32 #
maximus
Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
moldyoldy wrote:
Here’s what Donald Trump’s supporters really belie... (show quote)
Tho only ones claiming the e******n was untainted are the ones who tainted it, and supporters of said taint because they are never Trumpers.
The Supreme Court will not overturn the e******n because it was fair and honest, because it wasn't, but because of the violence that would ensue. They know that conservatives are not prone to violence, and yes, there may be some social disorder, but by and large, we will take it.
So, in essence, the POTUS was forced out of office by a crooked e******n, by bullying of those in a position to help Trump, by ownership of the MSM and big tech that has stifled free speech, the VERY first amendment and the most precious, and by outright lying...did I say lying? When Trump is such a lier? The same can be said of Pelosi, Naddler, Schumer, and especially Schiff. He lied for 3 years about evidence that would have made Trump ineligible for the presidency. Why was it never presented? Simple...he lied and that is a pretty serious lie.
I just can't wait to see what skullduggery goes on in the next e******n!
Dec 10, 2020 14:52:30 #
maximus wrote:
Tho only ones claiming the e******n was untainted ... (show quote)
Conservatives not prone to violence? Have you seen the nut cases threatening officials all over the country because they will not go along with the e******n f***d lie. Or the nitwits who attack people who believe in wearing a mask.
Dec 10, 2020 15:00:06 #
BigMike wrote:
Your chump candidate literally had to steal the e******n...and is fairly caught.
Actually the reality is he has not been caught at anything that has been proved, it is speculated by rhetorical proofs that rely on flawed everybody knows anecdotal non evidence that then cannot be taken to a verifiable proof...in other words not credible for legal court purposes.
Your chump trump candidate literally has to steal the e******n, because he didn't win it and even the brighter on the right knows that, they are arguing in bad faith, otherwise known as lying.
Dec 10, 2020 15:03:04 #
maximus wrote:
Tho only ones claiming the e******n was untainted ... (show quote)
The supreme court is not charged with interpreting the constitution based on what tens of millions of ignorant and misinformed acolytes want to believe, the supreme court is about the law.
Dec 10, 2020 15:19:40 #
woodguru wrote:
Actually the reality is he has not been caught at anything that has been proved, it is speculated by rhetorical proofs that rely on flawed everybody knows anecdotal non evidence that then cannot be taken to a verifiable proof...in other words not credible for legal court purposes.
Your chump trump candidate literally has to steal the e******n, because he didn't win it and even the brighter on the right knows that, they are arguing in bad faith, otherwise known as lying.
Your chump trump candidate literally has to steal the e******n, because he didn't win it and even the brighter on the right knows that, they are arguing in bad faith, otherwise known as lying.
That takes time but in the meantime he isn't $ht (Office of the President Elect indeed!🤣). Trump, however, can do a lot...and almost all those "lawsuits" you folks crow about are private lawsuits. The media is leading you into believing something that isn't true.
This absolutely won't stand and we won't stand for it. The pressure is only going to build and the only date that means anything as a matter of Constitutional deadlines is January 20th.
I've posted this cartoon for years but maybe it's time I did so again.
Y'see, Trump is the axe, we're the green guy using it and we're s**k of a corrupt frelling Establishment.
We're gonna chop up the corrupt Republicans in GA just to show you we're serious.
Dec 10, 2020 15:35:27 #
maximus
Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
moldyoldy wrote:
Conservatives not prone to violence? Have you seen the nut cases threatening officials all over the country because they will not go along with the e******n f***d lie. Or the nitwits who attack people who believe in wearing a mask.
I've seen all of that but I've seen NO conservative r**ts, burnings, destruction of property, l**ting, and taking of lives, people and cops too.
I've seen no conservatives run people out of their restaurant.
I've seen no conservatives harassing people trying to eat at s restaurant in numbers.
I've seen no conservatives hit people with fists, sticks, rocks, bottles, bricks, or knock them out.
I've seen no conservatives spit on cops or use a bullhorn in their face.
I HAVE seen liberals do all of these things and more. I'll take a threat any day over burning my house down, or burning my business down, or stealing me blind, or beating the crap out of me.
Dec 10, 2020 17:12:12 #
maximus wrote:
I've seen all of that but I've seen NO conservativ... (show quote)
White h**e fuels violence.
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/944_OPSR_TEVUS_Comparing-Violent-Nonviolent-Far-Right-H**e-Groups_Dec2011-508.pdf
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/us/domestic-terrorist-groups.amp.html
Dec 10, 2020 18:47:59 #
moldyoldy wrote:
White h**e fuels violence.
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/944_OPSR_TEVUS_Comparing-Violent-Nonviolent-Far-Right-H**e-Groups_Dec2011-508.pdf
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/us/domestic-terrorist-groups.amp.html
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/944_OPSR_TEVUS_Comparing-Violent-Nonviolent-Far-Right-H**e-Groups_Dec2011-508.pdf
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/us/domestic-terrorist-groups.amp.html
What tripe.
Dec 10, 2020 19:50:03 #
Dec 10, 2020 20:45:43 #
Dec 11, 2020 10:43:03 #
FallenOak
Loc: St George Utah
moldyoldy wrote:
Conservatives not prone to violence? Have you seen the nut cases threatening officials all over the country because they will not go along with the e******n f***d lie. Or the nitwits who attack people who believe in wearing a mask.
Conservatives as a rule do not engage in violence they try using logic to change the minds of the misguided L*****t. Threaten violence and engage in violence are different. L*****ts pulling people from cars and then setting cars aflame are engaging in violence. People saying we will beat you up are just threatening.
Here where I live there are many who refuse to wear a mask and many others who do wear a mask. Some of the businesses pass out masks to those without them and let them enter. People who want to enter wear the mask and throw it in the trash on the way out the door. Both sides stare at the other in the parking lot, I guess that could be called a threat but I know of no altercation because of mask or no mask. I like the mask because I walk about gasping like Darth Vader and ask everyone, “Have you seen my light saber?” My wife pretends she does not know me.
Dec 11, 2020 11:59:23 #
FallenOak wrote:
Conservatives as a rule do not engage in violence ... (show quote)
https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/mask-wearing-leads-violent-confrontations-71807719
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iXatarwVI7k
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pnk6wHD7RYU
https://khn.org/morning-breakout/tensions-over-masks-social-distancing-lead-to-violent-altercations-shooting-death-pipe-bomb-threats/
So many more.
Dec 11, 2020 12:38:33 #
FallenOak
Loc: St George Utah
moldyoldy wrote:
https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/mask-wearing-leads-violent-confrontations-71807719
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iXatarwVI7k
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pnk6wHD7RYU
https://khn.org/morning-breakout/tensions-over-masks-social-distancing-lead-to-violent-altercations-shooting-death-pipe-bomb-threats/
So many more.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iXatarwVI7k
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pnk6wHD7RYU
https://khn.org/morning-breakout/tensions-over-masks-social-distancing-lead-to-violent-altercations-shooting-death-pipe-bomb-threats/
So many more.
I watched all your clips and yes they are showing violence but where I live there doesn’t seem to be anything like that. The area I live in is growing rapidly and perhaps it will come sooner rather than later. Utah is sixth in suicides in the US and I expect as we go into a continuation of this mask and distance regimen we will experience a rise in suicides especially during the winter months. But that does not affect another citizen, only a family.
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