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Thoughts - Integration vs religious freedom
Oct 20, 2020 04:10:19   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Muslim doctor refusing to shake woman's hand denied citizenship
TIM STICKINGS PandaGuides

A Muslim doctor has been denied German citizenship after refusing to shake a woman's hand when she gave him his certificate.

The 39-year-old Lebanese national was on the brink of becoming a German after living in the country for 13 years, completing his medical studies and passing a citizenship test with the highest possible mark.

But he failed at the final hurdle after refusing to shake the hand of the female official at the ceremony in 2015, leading state authorities to deny him citizenship.

Five years later, a court has backed their decision - saying the man's 'fundamentalist' views were at odds with his integration into German society.

The man had moved to Germany in 2002 and lived there legally ever since, marrying a woman of Syrian origin about 10 years ago - promising her that he would never take the hand of another woman.

He started his application for citizenship in 2012 and signed the necessary paperwork vowing to uphold the constitution and reject extremism.

But the court in Mannheim said the handshake incident was incompatible with the constitution's guarantee of e******y between men and women.

'If the applicant refuses to shake hands for g****r-specific reasons which are incompatible with the constitution, there is no integration into German living conditions,' they said.

'This applies in particular if the refusal to shake hands with the opposite sex - as in this case - serves to further a Salafist conviction about the relationship between men and women.'

Germany has long held concerns about the fundamentalist Salafists, who make up only a tiny proportion of the country's Muslim population.

The man's refusal to shake hands with the official came from a belief that women posed a 'threat of sexual temptation', the court said.

Since the start of 2018, the man has stopped giving handshakes altogether - but the court dismissed this as a 'tactical' step to improve his chances of getting citizenship.

The court said that handshakes had deep roots in Western culture, including as a symbol of reaching agreement.

'Handshakes are common greeting and farewell rituals that take place regardless of the social status, g****r or other personal characteristics of the people involved and go back centuries,' the judges said.

While other greetings such as kisses and high-fives are also available, they do not come with the came sense of formality and legal validity, the court said.

The judges also predicted that handshakes would withstand the c****av***s p******c, in which physical touching has been kept to a minimum to reduce infections.

The man can now appeal the decision to a federal court.

Reply
Oct 20, 2020 04:25:35   #
Simple Sam Loc: USA
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Muslim doctor refusing to shake woman's hand denied citizenship
TIM STICKINGS PandaGuides

A Muslim doctor has been denied German citizenship after refusing to shake a woman's hand when she gave him his certificate.

The 39-year-old Lebanese national was on the brink of becoming a German after living in the country for 13 years, completing his medical studies and passing a citizenship test with the highest possible mark.

But he failed at the final hurdle after refusing to shake the hand of the female official at the ceremony in 2015, leading state authorities to deny him citizenship.

Five years later, a court has backed their decision - saying the man's 'fundamentalist' views were at odds with his integration into German society.

The man had moved to Germany in 2002 and lived there legally ever since, marrying a woman of Syrian origin about 10 years ago - promising her that he would never take the hand of another woman.

He started his application for citizenship in 2012 and signed the necessary paperwork vowing to uphold the constitution and reject extremism.

But the court in Mannheim said the handshake incident was incompatible with the constitution's guarantee of e******y between men and women.

'If the applicant refuses to shake hands for g****r-specific reasons which are incompatible with the constitution, there is no integration into German living conditions,' they said.

'This applies in particular if the refusal to shake hands with the opposite sex - as in this case - serves to further a Salafist conviction about the relationship between men and women.'

Germany has long held concerns about the fundamentalist Salafists, who make up only a tiny proportion of the country's Muslim population.

The man's refusal to shake hands with the official came from a belief that women posed a 'threat of sexual temptation', the court said.

Since the start of 2018, the man has stopped giving handshakes altogether - but the court dismissed this as a 'tactical' step to improve his chances of getting citizenship.

The court said that handshakes had deep roots in Western culture, including as a symbol of reaching agreement.

'Handshakes are common greeting and farewell rituals that take place regardless of the social status, g****r or other personal characteristics of the people involved and go back centuries,' the judges said.

While other greetings such as kisses and high-fives are also available, they do not come with the came sense of formality and legal validity, the court said.

The judges also predicted that handshakes would withstand the c****av***s p******c, in which physical touching has been kept to a minimum to reduce infections.

The man can now appeal the decision to a federal court.
Muslim doctor refusing to shake woman's hand denie... (show quote)


Good for Germany. Immigration comes with a need to integrate, that means accepting the social customs, national languages, and obedience to laws of their adopted nation. Without full integration the individual will always be "outside" of communities, a visitor who is just passing through.

Reply
Oct 20, 2020 06:16:01   #
Roamin' Catholic Loc: luxurious exile
 
Simple Sam wrote:
Good for Germany. Immigration comes with a need to integrate, that means accepting the social customs, national languages, and obedience to laws of their adopted nation. Without full integration the individual will always be "outside" of communities, a visitor who is just passing through.


Agreed!

People have the inalienable right to live out their religious convictions, as long as they don't interfere with the rights of others, and countries have a right to grant or refuse citizenship for wh**ever reasons they see fit.

In this case the man should just maintain his status quo. A visitor who is just passing through.

As a Christian living in a land of legalized, rampant murder I feel as though I'm just a visitor passing through.

Reply
Oct 20, 2020 06:45:12   #
Kevyn
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Muslim doctor refusing to shake woman's hand denied citizenship
TIM STICKINGS PandaGuides

A Muslim doctor has been denied German citizenship after refusing to shake a woman's hand when she gave him his certificate.

The 39-year-old Lebanese national was on the brink of becoming a German after living in the country for 13 years, completing his medical studies and passing a citizenship test with the highest possible mark.

But he failed at the final hurdle after refusing to shake the hand of the female official at the ceremony in 2015, leading state authorities to deny him citizenship.

Five years later, a court has backed their decision - saying the man's 'fundamentalist' views were at odds with his integration into German society.

The man had moved to Germany in 2002 and lived there legally ever since, marrying a woman of Syrian origin about 10 years ago - promising her that he would never take the hand of another woman.

He started his application for citizenship in 2012 and signed the necessary paperwork vowing to uphold the constitution and reject extremism.

But the court in Mannheim said the handshake incident was incompatible with the constitution's guarantee of e******y between men and women.

'If the applicant refuses to shake hands for g****r-specific reasons which are incompatible with the constitution, there is no integration into German living conditions,' they said.

'This applies in particular if the refusal to shake hands with the opposite sex - as in this case - serves to further a Salafist conviction about the relationship between men and women.'

Germany has long held concerns about the fundamentalist Salafists, who make up only a tiny proportion of the country's Muslim population.

The man's refusal to shake hands with the official came from a belief that women posed a 'threat of sexual temptation', the court said.

Since the start of 2018, the man has stopped giving handshakes altogether - but the court dismissed this as a 'tactical' step to improve his chances of getting citizenship.

The court said that handshakes had deep roots in Western culture, including as a symbol of reaching agreement.

'Handshakes are common greeting and farewell rituals that take place regardless of the social status, g****r or other personal characteristics of the people involved and go back centuries,' the judges said.

While other greetings such as kisses and high-fives are also available, they do not come with the came sense of formality and legal validity, the court said.

The judges also predicted that handshakes would withstand the c****av***s p******c, in which physical touching has been kept to a minimum to reduce infections.

The man can now appeal the decision to a federal court.
Muslim doctor refusing to shake woman's hand denie... (show quote)

In t the US this would not be possible, the first amendment provides protection for religious beliefs and doctrine, not so in Germany.

Reply
Oct 20, 2020 07:10:38   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Kevyn wrote:
In t the US this would not be possible, the first amendment provides protection for religious beliefs and doctrine, not so in Germany.


Yeah... Germany is awesome

Reply
Oct 20, 2020 08:31:21   #
Smedley_buzkill
 
Simple Sam wrote:
Good for Germany. Immigration comes with a need to integrate, that means accepting the social customs, national languages, and obedience to laws of their adopted nation. Without full integration the individual will always be "outside" of communities, a visitor who is just passing through.


I'm not sure. If he didn't shake her hand because she's an infidel or something, that's one thing. If it's simply because of a marriage vow, maybe tha's different.

Reply
Oct 20, 2020 08:32:18   #
Smedley_buzkill
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Yeah... Germany is awesome


You are saying that the refusal was due to a marriage vow of some sort rather than a religious prohibition about touching infidels?

Reply
Oct 20, 2020 08:43:13   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Smedley_buzk**l wrote:
You are saying that the refusal was due to a marriage vow of some sort rather than a religious prohibition about touching infidels?


I'm saying nothing... This was an article from a new site I subscribe to...

The article clearly states that his refusal was attached to his religious beliefs, which Germany finds to be incompatible with their culture...

Reply
Oct 20, 2020 09:06:17   #
lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Muslim doctor refusing to shake woman's hand denied citizenship
TIM STICKINGS PandaGuides

A Muslim doctor has been denied German citizenship after refusing to shake a woman's hand when she gave him his certificate.

The 39-year-old Lebanese national was on the brink of becoming a German after living in the country for 13 years, completing his medical studies and passing a citizenship test with the highest possible mark.

But he failed at the final hurdle after refusing to shake the hand of the female official at the ceremony in 2015, leading state authorities to deny him citizenship.

Five years later, a court has backed their decision - saying the man's 'fundamentalist' views were at odds with his integration into German society.

The man had moved to Germany in 2002 and lived there legally ever since, marrying a woman of Syrian origin about 10 years ago - promising her that he would never take the hand of another woman.

He started his application for citizenship in 2012 and signed the necessary paperwork vowing to uphold the constitution and reject extremism.

But the court in Mannheim said the handshake incident was incompatible with the constitution's guarantee of e******y between men and women.

'If the applicant refuses to shake hands for g****r-specific reasons which are incompatible with the constitution, there is no integration into German living conditions,' they said.

'This applies in particular if the refusal to shake hands with the opposite sex - as in this case - serves to further a Salafist conviction about the relationship between men and women.'

Germany has long held concerns about the fundamentalist Salafists, who make up only a tiny proportion of the country's Muslim population.

The man's refusal to shake hands with the official came from a belief that women posed a 'threat of sexual temptation', the court said.

Since the start of 2018, the man has stopped giving handshakes altogether - but the court dismissed this as a 'tactical' step to improve his chances of getting citizenship.

The court said that handshakes had deep roots in Western culture, including as a symbol of reaching agreement.

'Handshakes are common greeting and farewell rituals that take place regardless of the social status, g****r or other personal characteristics of the people involved and go back centuries,' the judges said.

While other greetings such as kisses and high-fives are also available, they do not come with the came sense of formality and legal validity, the court said.

The judges also predicted that handshakes would withstand the c****av***s p******c, in which physical touching has been kept to a minimum to reduce infections.

The man can now appeal the decision to a federal court.
Muslim doctor refusing to shake woman's hand denie... (show quote)


P*******es have tried to use the religious freedom defense, fortunately, to no avail.

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