truthiness

Why don’t conservatives act like conservatives?

Housing Bubble
The housing crisis was creating problems in the economy, so the government wants to step in. The government asks itself, “should we give money directly to the home owners who will lose their houses? Or should we give the money to the banks will forgive the debts causing the problem?” They gave it to the banks and what did the banks do? Save the homeowners from losing their houses? Of course not. They gave the government money to the banks who then foreclosed on the homeowners and then bought the houses at foreclosed prices. Example: Steven “King of Foreclosure” Mnuchin:
https://mondediplo.com/openpage/steven-mnuchin-foreclosure-king-of-america .

Cruise Line Sobs
Well, here go again. Now we are talking about bailing out the cruise lines for their losses incurred by the v***s. Bail out the industry that pays hardly any taxes as they register their boats in foreign countries?
https://thehustle.co/the-economics-of-cruise-ships/ .
The response will be that the cruise lines employ lots of people. Right, so if you want to give money away, give it directly to those people and forget the middle-man cruise line or its banks.

Oil’s Fats
Well, here we go again—soon we will hear from the oil companies, who even after the bonanza of the trump’s tax cuts, went out and borrowed more. Now our “friends” the Russians won’t cooperate in a production deal with OPEC, so our “friends” the Saudis are increasing production having the effect of driving down prices that has the effect of putting the over-leveraged oil companies in financial jeopardy. On top of this, look at the tax breaks the oil companies get for making money on minerals that belong to the people of the United States:
https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs
https://psmag.com/news/trumps-tax-plan-provided-massive-tax-breaks-to-the-oil-industry
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/reports/2016/05/26/138049/it-is-time-to-phase-out-9-unnecessary-oil-and-gas-tax-breaks/

Airlines
Same situation: the airlines put over 90% of their tax savings from the trump tax cut back into stock buy-back
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/airline-bailout-c****av***s-share-buyback-debate-trump-economy-aoc-2020-3-1029006175

Since trickle-down is a myth, https://www.russellsage.org/sites/all/files/chartbook/Income%20and%20Earnings.pdf ,
Since economists want cash put back into the economy now (as opposed going into stock buy-backs or executive bonuses),
Let’s hope that the f**e conservatives (exemplified by Lee, Paul) of the senate, give the money to worker households where it will do the most good and in the shortest time.

In fact, if you are a true fiscal conservative who believes in free market principles you should say for companies what you so quickly and easily say for individuals: compete or be replaced by more efficient entities. Why should inefficient companies with their grubby paws forever in the till get tax breaks and individuals get few if any?

roy

Socialism for the rich,the right loves it

eden

Excellent post. Thank you.

Tug484

I question the cruise line bail out.
If 500 people are on a ship, unless it's changed, you are to give each crew member a certain amount of tips for each day. That adds up to a pretty good payday.
The only person not tipped is the captain.

PeterS

The proposed bailout addresses both business and the public individually. The caveat for businesses to accept the bailout is that they can't layoff their employees--so the bailout is as much directed at their employees as it is the business.

As for why Conservatives no longer act like Conservatives that topic has been left unaddressed...

Radiance3

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We are a capitalist country. Thus, our country became the wealthiest country over 2 centuries. Recently, this C****av***s sunk all countries economy worldwide. We became the victims.

In the economist point of view, you have the brain of a SOCIALIST.

The reasons why the companies are given incentives and bailouts: Example like the banks in the housing industries, the shipping or tourism companies, a many other adversely affected.

This is to inject capital to these industries to put them back work so that our economy will come back. The capital provided is an investment to put them operate again, and employ people and to expand the economy.

When you put money directly into the hands of the people, it will just disappear, once they spend it. That will never return. Then they are broke and hungry again. Fact is that has been the bait all Socialist countries due to their people until all their resources are consumed. Then they become broke, they fight and r**t, ens***ed, or run away to other capital countries like the US. All Socialist and c*******t countries started that way by luring them and giving them bait.

**However, the president understands the need of those people who lost their wages and nothing to depend on. Most companies will give pay to people while they are out of work or production. But those who lost jobs with no other sources, the president is providing them money to sustain them until the economy is restored and they are back to work. They are also covered with unemployment insurance.

This is the right kind of conservatism. Invest stimulus to capital production, while sustaining the people from the government for its loss of wages.

When you give to the companies engage in business, they use it as an investment to make money, employ people, they pay their taxes, and thus our economy restores our economy. It grows wealth.

This is about consumption versus production. Consumption when given to the people, but production when given to the companies to produce more. That is capitalism.

During the 2008-2009 Subprime crisis, banks and companies were bailed out too. And people who lost their homes were given incentives to pay off loans to some extent, and allowed to retrieve back their homes from foreclosures.

But those who were extremely not qualified buying homes but used some trick to obtain loans. They lost their homes. It took 8 years, Mr. Obama gathered around 46 million households on Food Stamps program.

truthiness

You're welcome. Thanks for reading and posting.

truthiness

.....
Radiance, thanks for responding. Since you made several claims (as opinions without any evidence per usual), it will take several posts for me to respond.

You claim: "In the economist point of view, you have the brain of a SOCIALIST."

Since this is a claim aimed at me personally (which I do not find offensive, just incorrect), I have to answer in a personal context which is at best boring to most readers, but there is no other way.
I was weaned politically in a midwestern county that is as conservative as Orange County used to be. As a young teacher I reveled in the works of Ludwig von Mises (https://mises.org/library/human-action-0) and Friedrich Hayak. Faithfully every month I read 'The Freeman' published through The Foundation for Economic Education (https://fee.org/about/) by its founder-saint Leonard Read (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ). I still have monographs autographed by Read.

If you check out these references, you will find that I am much further from being a socialist than you are as you promote the US government as conservative as they promote social security, medicare, an 8-hour work day, the post office, etc. Crayons is the only person at OPP who I recall claims that she does not use these government "handouts." Forgive me and correct me, Crayola, if I have misquoted you.

Rad says, "We are a capitalist country."
This, of course, is not true if she means that economic-political system of the US is a pure capitalistic system because the US is correctly called a plutocracy (https://davidkorten.org/plutocracy/ ) as well as an oligarchy
(https://bulletin.represent.us/u-s-oligarchy-explain-research/ ) in addition to being socialistic as indicated above.

Rad further states that because of capitalism, "...our country became the wealthiest country over 2 centuries."
Capitalism being the cause of the wealth in the US is not everyone's opinion.
For instance, biographers of James Madison and the Founders and other historians would place the Constitution way ahead of capitalism.

Another historian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Hartz) attributes the success of the American experiment in liberty (and therefore wealth) to the absence of the European traditions feudalism, an official state church (i.e., the mandate of religious liberty), and a landed royalty.

Another approach is that of my Mormon neighbor who regularly (gently) harangues me (he would probably call it proselytizing) with the idea that God preserved the American continents for a liberty-loving people who would forever be free of kings and this would lead to the great prosperity that some of us enjoy. Come to think of it, maybe he means just North America since the Aztecs and the Incas certainly had kings. (Perhaps there is a Mormon among us on OPP who can validate my neighbor; there certainly are many Mormons who support conservatism (https://news.gallup.com/poll/125021/mormons-conservative-major-religious-group.aspx ).

So there are reasons other than capitalism that Americans attribute to the country's prosperity.

Radiance 3, I hope I have convinced you that I am not a socialist and much more importantly that the American economic system is anything but pure capitalism. I am not sure why your adherence to this erroneous idea persists in so many conservatives because it makes them at best pseudo-conservatives in that they try to conserve something that does not exist. Perhaps it is a myth that the egalitarian autocrats/plutocrats want you to adhere to. (Our OPP colleague Scicilianthing probably attaches an even more sinister cabal to it.)

That's enough for tonight, Rad3.

t

Proudemocrat Loc: To your left.

Because they are first and foremost a cult following. They are incapable of discern.

Radiance3

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I call your point of view a SOCIALIST
Thank you. My statement was based on your headline:
“Why don’t conservatives act like conservatives?”
I don’t listen to all those IT links because most of them are also opinions of various people, not based on the actual formula to theory of economics. I am very selective in using the IT system, many of those input there I don’t trust.

Here are my statements, not an opinion but a theory in economics. In all economics books you’ll find them. It does not change, like a math formula does not change. The basic foundation of economic theory based on Capitalism and Socialism.

Here is the Socialist theory.
Socialism is an economic and political system based on public or collective ownership of the means of production, which emphasizes e******y rather than achievement. In this system the government determines production, investment, prices and incomes, or distribution.

Here is the capitalism.
An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. It incentivizes
production, creativity, innovation, inventions, thus motivate more productions.

Your question here:
Why don’t conservatives act like conservatives?
I called you a Socialist because you are trying to question the approach and solutions of president Trump to our economic crisis at present.

Here are my answers for that.
In crisis that we have at present, solution to the economy is not an only a pure conservatism approach. The solution was made to address the economic problems we are facing at present. It needs both solutions using the Capitalist system, and the Socialist System.

Both conservatism and of socialism approach were applied every time we have this adverse financial crisis like this.

Similarly, the 2008-2009 Subprime Crisis government also used both Conservatism and Socialism.

Why? Bailing out of businesses allow them to be back to production and employ people. In addition, the money given to them are not entirely free. The funds given to businesses are in a form of a loan and they pay them back. Putting them back to work restores the economy.

On the contrary it is also essential to bail out the people who lost jobs, or homes. That is why the president had decided to supplement the income of people who lost jobs until they are back to work. In addition, similar to the 2008-09 Subprime crisis many home owners were bailed out partially on their mortgages so they were able to retrieve back their foreclosed homes. That is a common sense approach. A combination of capitalistic approach, and socialistic approach.

People with Socialistic attitude think that equal distribution from the government is good for them, even without production. I think that is a handout mental attitude.

Facts have proven that the freedom of people to innovate, invent, create, and produce have brought them to economic prosperity,not only to themselves but to the people around them who were given jobs, and the government that allows that freedom.

Even China a c*******t /socialist state, engages in the economy of capitalism.

And I appreciate president Trump and Sec. Mnuchin on their solutions.

PS: I don't trust some IT links based on other people's opinion, and displays of their opinions. E.g. A Socialist person could post his Link on the IT, and justifies his own theory.

currahee506

A "conservative" is one who believes in the same reason our founding fathers believed they needed to militantly revolt against England: "to be free from the British pound and have our own money, colonial script, an interest-free dollar." They symbolize their protest in "the Boston Tea Party."

The First Amendment, therefore, was written to ensure that only Congress "minted the coins." Today, the FDIC. the private central bank, owned by the "global banking cartel, predominantly run by the central bank in London Square, prints our paper IOU, as the "Interest-bearing-script" that is the reserve of the entire world, except for a few countries like Iran and North Korea.

When the politicians in the DC "swamp" "nationalize the FED" which will make the dollar"our dollar" because it will then be "interest-free,": then we will be acting like "conservatives" because we will then be our own country, which is the true America, the land of the free.

Radiance3

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Our country was built in a capitalistic conservative republic by the Founding Fathers. Our Declaration of Independence, states, here is an Excerpt.
We hold these t***hs to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed:

Focus on Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That is freedom to choose. And the pursuit of happiness is the choice to earn, learn, and achieve to make us happy of our achievements. It also states, the consent of the governed. That power is again of the people, by the people, and for the people. We have that power or freedom to achieve and choose our direction. Not from the government but from our own decisions. These are the basics of Capitalized republic.

Radiance3

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The problems on the Banking System is huge and different. Here are the status how banks were created.

In 1791, Congress chartered the First Bank of the United States. The bank, which was jointly owned by the federal government and private stockholders, was a nationwide commercial bank which served as the bank for the federal government and operated as a regular commercial bank acting in competition with state banks.

Consequently, when First Bank of the United States' charter came up for renewal in 1811, meet opposition.

The Second Bank of the United States opened in January 1817, six years after the First Bank of the United States lost its charter. The predominant reason that the Second Bank of the United States was chartered was that in the War of 1812, the U.S. experiencedsevere inflation and had difficulty in financing military operations. Subsequently, the credit and borrowing status of the Treasury was at its lowest level ever.

The Federal Reserve System is the central bank of the United States. It was founded by Congress in 1913 to provide the nation with a safer, more flexible, and more stable monetary and financial system. Over the years, its role in banking and the economy has expanded. The Federal Reserve is run the Chairman of the 7 Board of Directors running the system. The Federal Reserve is called our Central Bank.

Until at present we are carrying this complicated banking system both corporate and government.
Our objective here is to remove private equity and run the system based on government monetary system. In my opinion, the Federal Reserve system must be changed by removing the private corporate holdings.

truthiness

....
Thank you for the history lessons.
Have a nice day.

Radiance3

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Take care. Please stay safe.