Fodaoson Loc: South Texas

John 14:1-7 English Standard Version (ESV)
14 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God;[a] believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?[b] 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.”[c] 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the t***h, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.[d] From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

John 10:22-30 English Standard Version (ESV)
I and the Father Are One
22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

"Yer lookin' for Love in all the wrong places . . . "

H/T Johnny Lee

Rose42

Because those who deny Christ’s deity don’t rely on the Holy Spirit for guidance. The evidence is rich and abundant. Unitarians are similar to the Pauline Christians who also have a skewed view of what the bible says. They too insist they can back up their views. Both are CINOs.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

You're not a Pauline Christian?

I thought you were an Evangelical?

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

If I’m “wrong”, then so was Jesus, Peter, Philip, Paul, and all the early Christians except the Gnostic Marcion.

It is written, “man does not live by bread alone but by every word of God” Matthew 4:4

You need to learn to not interpret the Bible like the devil does, lopsided and disallowing any scripture that would constrain you from jumping to the conclusions that negate God’s word in other areas.

Paul was very clear about what “law” he was talking about that was being done away:

“17Now I say this. A covenant confirmed beforehand by God in Christ, the law, which came four hundred thirty years after, does not annul, so as to make the promise of no effect. 18For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no more of promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by promise. 19What then is the law? It was added because of t***sgressions, until the seed should come to whom the promise has been made.” Galatians 3:17-18

Now that the seed, that is, Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:16), has come, does that mean, according to Paul himself, there is no longer any law, period? Absolutely not! It is written again:

“...though I am not free from God's law but under the law of Christ...” 1 Corinthians 9:21

This is what you ignore to your peril.

Paul himself wasn’t as dismissive about being under the law of Christ as you are. What is the devil’s work other than negating the commandments of God?

“You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn't stand in the t***h, because there is no t***h in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and its father.” John 8:44

Paul was not lawless, nor did he preach lawlessness, rather, clearly, he was under the law to Christ- the new law under Christ, not the OT law that was added temporarily. In fact, Paul identified the devil as that man of lawlessness, whom I am now exposing as your real father, as Jesus identified.

“21Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will tell me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' 23Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work lawlessness.” Matthew 7:21

“Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the r*******n occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed... For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work...” 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 7

“13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as Christ's apostles. 14And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is no great thing therefore if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.” 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

So, when you “Evangelicals” propagate your lawless gospel, you aren’t actually following Paul, as you have been deceived to believe, rather, you are propagating both the r*******n of, and the lawlessness of, the devil himself!

I’m preaching the “faith once delivered” to you for your salvation’s sake. You need to repent of your Gnostic teachings!

“For just as you presented your members as s***es to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as s***es to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.” Romans 6:19

“16Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God, that, whereas you were bondservants of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto you were delivered.” Romans 6:16-17

“Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?” 2 Corinthians 6:14

“5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace; 7because the mind of the flesh is hostile towards God; for it is not subject to God's law, neither indeed can it be. 8Those who are in the flesh can't please God.” Romans 8:5-7

In Paul’s teaching, only the carnally minded are not subject to God’s law.

~~~
What is the Everlasting Gospel/Good News?

It is written:

“...made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on earth.” Revelation 5:10

“4I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn't worship the beast nor his image, and didn't receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived, and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” Revelation 4:6

“If we endure, we will also reign with him...” 2 Timothy 2:12

“26He who overcomes, and he who keeps my works to the end, to him I will give authority over the nations. 27He will rule them with a rod of iron, shattering them like clay pots; as I also have received of my Father.” Revelation 2:27 (see also Revelation 12:5)

“15Out of his mouth proceeds a sharp, double-edged sword, that with it he should strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He treads the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.” Revelation 19:26-27

Let me ask you something, when the saints are reigning with Christ for a thousand years, during which time the disobedient will be ruled over with a rod of iron, and shattered like clay pots, will it be preached that “the gospel is understanding they don’t and cannot earn their salvation, their redemption having been completed on the cross”, like you Evangelicals preach?

The idea is ludicrous, but that is what your article claims. You see, in the book of Revelation, the angel proclaimed the everlasting gospel:

“6I saw an angel flying in mid heaven, having an eternal Good News (euangelion) to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation, tribe, language, and people. 7He said with a loud voice, "Fear the Lord, and give him glory; for the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and the springs of waters!” Revelation 14:6-7


Here’s the everlasting good news! The same as Jesus preached, the good news, once again, is that the kingdom-reign of God is at hand! God’s Christ will rule the nations with a rod of iron, shattering the disobedient like clay!

“36One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” John 3:36

“28Don't marvel at this, for the hour comes, in which all that are in the tombs will hear his voice, 29and will come out; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.” John 5:28-29

But if we were to mistakenly listen to Evangelicals, then this angel should be cursed. For Paul had said,

“6I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different "good news"; 7and there isn't another "good news." Only there are some who trouble you, and want to pervert the Good News of Christ. 8But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any "good news" other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. 9As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any "good news" other than that which you received, let him be cursed.” Galatians 1:6-9

No, the Evangelical gospel is the one that is perverted and is no good news. The one and only everlasting gospel is the same one that Jesus preached, the same one that the apostles preached, and the same one Paul preached- the good news of the kingdom-reign of God! Which, as you yourself have testified, is definitely not the message the Evangelicals preach, which makes, you, not Jesus, Paul, the apostles, or even me, the ones perverting the gospel whom Paul said were to be accursed.

Continued in Part 2

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Part 2

Obedience Under the Law of Christ according to Paul and the other apostles

“...though I am not free from God's law but under the law of Christ...” 1 Corinthians 9:21

“5But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath, revelation, and of the righteous judgment of God; 6who "will pay back to everyone according to their works:" 7to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory, honor, and incorruptibility, eternal life; 8but to those who are self-seeking, and don't obey the t***h, but obey unrighteousness, will be wrath and indignation, 9oppression and anguish, on every soul of man who works evil, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 10But glory, honor, and peace go to every man who works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.” Romans 2:5-11

“16Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God, that, whereas you were bondservants of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto you were delivered. 18Being made free from sin, you became bondservants of righteousness.” Romans 6:16-18

“12So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God.” Romans 8:12-14

“16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won't fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, that you may not do the things that you desire. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21envyings, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.” Galatians 5:16-24

“8But if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him; 9knowing that Christ, being raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no more has d******n over him! 10For the death that he died, he died to sin one time; but the life that he lives, he lives to God. 11Thus consider yourselves also to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:8-11

“For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.” 2 Corinthians 7:10

“12Therefore don't let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13Neither present your members to sin as instruments of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin will not have d******n over you. For you are not under law, but under grace.” Romans 6:12-14

“16that I should be a servant of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, serving as a priest the Good News of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be made acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit... 18For... Christ worked through me, for the obedience of the Gentiles, by word and deed,” Romans 15:16-18

““1Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you not to obey the t***h, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth among you as crucified?... 6Even as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness." 7Know therefore that those who are of faith, the same are children of Abraham.” Galatians 3:1, 6-7

“39They answered him, "Our father is Abraham." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.” John 8:39.

“…(Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe… who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham...” -Romans 4:11-13

“By faith Abraham , when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed ; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith (Abraham) sojourned {walked} in the land of promise…” Hebrews 11: 8-16

“...we received grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations...” Romans 1:5

“6Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you, 7and to give relief to you who are afflicted with us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8giving vengeance to those who don't know God, and to those who don't obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus, 9who will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might” 1 Thessalonians 1:6-9

“9For to this end I also wrote, that I might know the proof of you, whether you are obedient in all things.” 2 Corinthians 2:9

“4for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but mighty before God to the throwing down of strongholds, 5throwing down imaginations and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ” 2 Corinthians 4-5

“If any man thinks himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him recognize the things which I write to you, that they are the commandment of the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 14:37

“9Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation” Hebrews 5:9

“17If you call on him as Father, who without respect of persons judges according to each man's work, pass the time of your living as foreigners here in reverent fear” 1 Peter 1:14

“17For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God. If it begins first with us, what will happen to those who don't obey the Good News of God? 18"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will happen to the ungodly and the sinner? 19Therefore let them also who suffer according to the will of God in doing good entrust their souls to him, as to a faithful Creator.” 1 Peter 4:17-18

“35The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into his hand. 36One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won't see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” John 3:36

“...for the hour comes, in which all that are in the tombs will hear his voice, 29and will come out; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.” John 5:24-29

It is written, “man does not live by bread alone but by every word of God” Matthew 4:4

Continued in Part 3

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Part 3

The History of the Evangelical false Gospel

“Early Christian patristic literature shows that no writer promulgated Paul’s anti-legal theme except Marcion the heretic. Even the epistle to the Hebrews [written by one of Paul’s closest associates] interprets the Gospel as a new covenant of both law and grace. Matthew sets forth law as an absolute to be observed in its intention and its letter. Clement of Rome assumed that fulfillment of God’s commands was basic; the Didache, Theophilus, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and even Origen conceived of Christ as a lawgiver who came to establish a new law, not to abrogate rules and regulations... One view accompanying Paul’s concept of law, that of generic sin, was largely lost site of until Augustine [who was a Manichean Gnostic for some 9 years before converting to the then state religion of catholicism] emphasized it in connection with his interpretation of Original Sin. Already, early Christian writers, beginning with the author of the Didache and Justin, do not emphasize sin in Pauline fashion [that is, as interpreted by later Evangelicals] as a general indwelling sinfulness, a qualitative infection... rather sin became more a quantitative evil made up of single acts, sins, personal t***sgressions which, like individual crimes in civil law, could be atoned for and blotted out... Even Augustine... reinforced the Apostle’s doctrine of free grace with a legalistic sacramental ecclesiastical system” E. G. Weltin, “Athens and Jerusalem; An interpretative Essay on Christianity and Classical Culture, Scholars Press, 1987, pgs 130-131 [emphasis and bracket’s mine, -Tom Raddatz]

“Concerned as they were with ethical questions as much as with doctrinal issues, the apologists [writers after the apostles] also sought to prove and defend the superiority of the Christian ethic. Of the devices employed in this defense, the most important doctrinally was their interpretation of the Christian gospel as ‘new law.’ When Barnabas spoke of ‘the new law of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is without a yoke of necessity,’ he set forth a pattern followed by many later theologians. Justin called Christ ‘the new lawgiver,’ and Origen termed him ‘the lawgiver of the Christians”... The ‘new law’ implied new demands (the knowledge of Christ, repentance, and a sinless life after conversion) as well as new promises...” Jaros***e Pelikan, “The Christian Tradition; A History of the Develoment of Doctrine”, The University of Chicago Press, 1971, pgs 38-39

“Justin replied to Typho’s charge by, in effect, stratifying the Old Testament law. The Christians retained wh**ever in the law of Moses was ‘naturally good, pious, and righteous’... Irenaeus...affirmed that ‘the words of the decalogue’ had undergone ‘extension and amplification’ rather than ‘cancellation’ by Christ’s coming in the flesh... Tertullian argued that a ‘new law’ and a ‘new circumcision’ had replaced the old, which had been intended only as a sign or type of what was to come...” ibid., pgs 16-17

The book of James was written after the books of Paul. In it, James cleared up what some could jump to conclusions over about what Paul had been saying.

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought ("sunergo –1, to work together, help in work, be partner in labour 2, to put forth power together with and thereby to assist") with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness... Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only… For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” James 2:21-26, KJV.

In James 2, James James tied faith and works together with the word sunergo, which, as is defined and inserted above, imparts a clear and specific sense of partnership, rather than result. Sunergo is the root of our English word synergism, which literally means "like-energy." The Dictionary meaning of synergy, in harmony with the definition of sunergo above, says it is, "The action of two or more substances, organs, or organisms to achieve an effect of which each is individually incapable."

In the clearest of terms, James was [b]denying that we display works [b]as a result of already inherent faith as many attempt to impose upon James' words.

Notice this verse-

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” James 2:17

Here James himself clearly refutes the notion that "he is trying to say" that "faith without works really isn't faith," rather he actually gave 'faith without works' substance when he said "faith… is… being alone"

So James specifically did give faith without works "being" and "existence" when he said it "is… alone."

Now notice carefully this verse-

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26

Just because a body is dead does not mean that dead body doesn’t exist. So then, notice here that in James' analogy the "dead body" alone stood for "faith," but the life giving spirit is what is described as analogous to the works, without which the body was dead- and not the other way around!

Upon close examination it would hardly appear that James "was trying to say" that faith without works was not really faith. After all, it wouldn't be proper to say, "the body without the spirit is not really a body," would it? Why call it a body if it's not a body? Why then call it faith if it's not faith? So you see, when James said "the devils also believe" he was saying, "the devils also have faith," but that faith of devils is dead. (Keep in mind that the words faith and believe come from the same word in the Greek- pistis (S #4102) or pisteuo (S #4100) which is just a variant of pistis.)

Note that James is also very clear about what fulfills faith…

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how [b]faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness…” James 2:21

Abraham's belief was not fulfilled until after he obeyed God by offering up Isaac. That's what is written in God's Holy Word. James didn't make this up, nor was it a new revelation. God had already said as much-

“…By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee… because thou hast obeyed my voice.” Genesis 22:16

It was by obedience that Abraham offered his son Isaac, and the writer of Hebrews calls this obedience "by faith"…

“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac” Hebrews 11:17

By the way, the only place in the KJV Bible where you will find the words "faith" and "alone" together in the same verse is-

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ” -James 2:17

And the only place where you will find the phrase "faith only" is-

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” James 2:24

The words "grace" and "alone" never appear together, and the phrase "grace only" is likewise never found in scripture. (It is ironic how many people build their faith around doctrines that are never stated in scripture!)

It was this understanding of the synergy of faith and works that provided the understanding of the gospel that the early Christians defended.

All the early writers, with the exception of Gnostics like Marcion, echoed the biblical teaching of faitha and works in synergy producing justification and ultimately salvation…

Clement of Rome (companion of Apostle Paul), Letter to Corinthians, cp 34-35- "…It is required, therefore, that we be prompt in the practice of well-doing; for of Him are all things. And thus He forewarns us: "Behold, the Lord [cometh], and His reward is before His face, to render to every man according to his work." Let us therefore earnestly strive to be found in the number of those who wait for Him, in order that we may share in His promised gifts. But how, beloved, shall this be done? [b]If our understanding be fixed by faith to(wards) God; if we earnestly seek the things which are pleasing and acceptable to Him; if we do the things which are in harmony with His blameless will; and if we follow the way of t***h, casting away from us all unrighteousness and iniquity…"

Polycarp (companion of Apostle John), Philippians, cp 2- "He who raised Him up from the dead will raise up us also, if we do His will, and walk in His commandments, and love what He loved, keeping ourselves from all unrighteousness…"

Barnabas, Letter of, cp 21- "It is well, therefore, that he who has learned the judgments of the Lord, as many as have been written, should walk in them. For he who keepeth these shall be glorified in the kingdom of God; but he who chooseth other things shall be destroyed with his works. On this account there will be a resurrection, on this account a retribution."

Hermas, book 2, comm. 7; "Fear, then, the Lord, and you will live to Him, and as many as fear Him and keep His commandments will live to God." "Why," said I, "sir, did you say in regard to those that keep His commandments, that they will live to God?" "Because," says he, "all creation fears the Lord, but all creation does not keep His commandments. They only who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as to those who keep not His commandments, there is no life in them."

Hermas Book 3, sim. 10, cp 2 "And all who follow out his commands shall have life, and great honour with the Lord. But those who do not keep his commandments, flee from his life, and despise him. But he has his own honour with the Lord. All, therefore, who shall despise him, and not follow his commands, deliver themselves to death, and every one of them will be guilty of his own blood."

Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch 10- "And we have been taught, and are convinced, and do believe, that He accepts those only who imitate the excellences which reside in Him, temperance, and justice, and philanthropy, and as many virtues as are peculiar to a God who is called by no proper name. And we have been taught that… if men by their works show themselves worthy of this His design, they are deemed worthy, and so we have received--of reigning in company with Him, being delivered from corruption and suffering."

Clement of Alexandria, Rich Man, cp 1,2- "…Whosoever obtains this (t***h) and distinguishes himself in good works shall gain the prize of everlasting life. "

Clement of Alexandria, To Heathen, cp 11- "And the Word, having unfolded the t***h, showed to men the height of salvation, that either repenting they might be saved, or refusing to obey, they might be judged. This is the proclamation of righteousness: to those that obey, glad tidings; to those that disobey, judgment."

Hippolytus, Fragments from Commentaries, "On Proverbs"- "There be four things which are least upon the earth, and these are wiser than the wise: The ants have no strength, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." And in like manner, the Gentiles by faith in Christ prepare for themselves eternal life through good works."

Cyprian, Treatises, I. Unity of the Church, sec. 15- "For both to prophesy and to cast out devils, and to do great acts upon the earth is certainly a sublime and an admirable thing; but one does not attain the kingdom of heaven although he is found in all these things, unless he walks in the observance of the right and just way. The Lord denounces, and says, "Many shall say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name, and in Thy name have cast out devils, and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." There is need of righteousness, that one may deserve well of God the Judge; we must obey His precepts and warnings, that our merits may receive their reward."

Lactantius, Institutes, chap 32 (paraphrased) “Why, then, did He make [man] frail and mortal?… [So] He might set before man virtue, that is, endurance of evils and labors, by which he might be able to gain the reward of immortality. For since man consists of two parts, body and soul, of which the one is earthly, and the other heavenly, two lives have been assigned to man. The first, which is appointed for the body, is t***sitory. The other, which belongs to the soul, is everlasting. We received the first at our birth. We attain to the latter by striving, that immortality might not be available to man without some difficulties… For this reason He has given us this present life, that we may either lose the true and eternal life by our sins, or win it by our virtue.”

This doctrine then, that faith without synergistic works is dead, being alone, that our works do play a part in salvation, was as consistently held and practiced as much or more so than practically any other recorded doctrine of the early pre-Augustine church.

If I am “wrong”, then so was the entire body of Christianity with the exception of heretics like Marcion until Augustine, who was also a Manichaen Gnostic. Incidentally, both Luther and Calvin were “Augustinian monks” meaning their doctrines are the offspring of Gnostics by way of Augustine.

Continued in Part 4

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Part 4

The Anti-Christian/Gnostic nature of the so-called Evangelicals

Now, to the other group, the "they" that these early writers spoke against, "they" did believe that they were "predestined for certain salvation". Here is what Irenaeus had to say about "them"…

Irenaeus, Against Heretics, book 1, chap 6-
2. …they hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct... they affirm that they cannot in any measure… lose their spiritual substance, wh**ever the material actions in which they may be involved…
4. …they tell us that… it is not conduct of any kind which leads into (heaven), but the seed sent forth thence in a feeble, immature state, and here brought to perfection.

Do you know, or have you guessed who had been saying such things the church charged as heretical and at whom therefore such writings were directed? Why, it was none other than the Gnostics. The one's who denied that Jesus came in the flesh, of which the Apostle John labeled particularly as being deceivers and of the spirit of antichrist-

“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” -1 John 4:3

“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” -2 John 1:7

This second group – the Gnostics, is neither a newly exposed doctrine, nor a mystery to the church. I have already quoted how that the early church understood this distinction. Here are sample quotes from Contemporary Christians demonstrating the clear understanding of the difference in Judeo-Christian "faith" from Gnostic-philosophic "faith."

"While Judaism and Christianity hold that salvation is attained through submission and obedience to God, gnosticism- which has many forms and varieties – generally emphasizes salvation through an esoteric possession of knowledge of universal mysteries." – Two Religions in One Church, by Art Moore, pg 26, WhistleBlower magazine, August, 2002.

Let me point out that the word "Gnosis" literally means "knowledge." Consider that in the highlighting above and in the following…

"Faith…
"2. Philosophical. Faith viewed philosophically, must be regarded as lying at the basis of all [b]knowledge.
"3. Theological. Faith is not simply the assent of the intellect to revealed t***h; it is the practical submission of the entire man to the guidance and control of such t***h. 'The devils believe and tremble'… In illustration may be cited particularly John 3:18-21; Rom. 2:7-8; 4:5-12; Heb. Chap. 11; James 2:14-26" – Unger's Bible Dictionary.

Biblical faith is "the practical submission of the entire man."

Philosophical faith is that which is relying on "the basis of knowledge."

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” Colossians 2:8

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.” -Matthew 3:9

”Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.” -Ecclesiastes 12:13-14.

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

[quote=TommyRadd]Part 4

The Anti-Christian/Gnostic nature of the so-called Evangelicals

Now, to the other group, the "they" that these early writers spoke against, "they" did believe that they were "predestined for certain salvation". Here is what Irenaeus had to say about "them"…

Irenaeus, Against Heretics, book 1, chap 6-
2. …they hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct... they affirm that they cannot in any measure… lose their spiritual substance, wh**ever the material actions in which they may be involved…
4. …they tell us that… it is not conduct of any kind which leads into (heaven), but the seed sent forth thence in a feeble, immature state, and here brought to perfection.

Do you know, or have you guessed who had been saying such things the church charged as heretical and at whom therefore such writings were directed? Why, it was none other than the Gnostics. The one's who denied that Jesus came in the flesh, of which the Apostle John labeled particularly as being deceivers and of the spirit of antichrist-

“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” -1 John 4:3

“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” -2 John 1:7

This second group – the Gnostics, is neither a newly exposed doctrine, nor a mystery to the church. I have already quoted how that the early church understood this distinction. Here are sample quotes from Contemporary Christians demonstrating the clear understanding of the difference in Judeo-Christian "faith" from Gnostic-philosophic "faith."

"While Judaism and Christianity hold that salvation is attained through submission and obedience to God, gnosticism- which has many forms and varieties – generally emphasizes salvation through an esoteric possession of knowledge of universal mysteries." – Two Religions in One Church, by Art Moore, pg 26, WhistleBlower magazine, August, 2002.

Let me point out that the word "Gnosis" literally means "knowledge." Consider that in the highlighting above and in the following…

"Faith…
"2. Philosophical. Faith viewed philosophically, must be regarded as lying at the basis of all [b]knowledge.
"3. Theological. Faith is not simply the assent of the intellect to revealed t***h; it is the practical submission of the entire man to the guidance and control of such t***h. 'The devils believe and tremble'… In illustration may be cited particularly John 3:18-21; Rom. 2:7-8; 4:5-12; Heb. Chap. 11; James 2:14-26" – Unger's Bible Dictionary.

Biblical faith is "the practical submission of the entire man."

Philosophical faith is that which is relying on "the basis of knowledge."

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” Colossians 2:8

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.” -Matthew 3:9

”Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.” -Ecclesiastes 12:13-14.[/quote]

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Four More Pages! Does anyone read them other than CD?

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

The day after the rapture you can come back and read them to find out why you missed out.

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

What I did in those four pages was totally exposed the false gospel you have been seduced by, and shown that your so-called “gospel” would condemn literally the entire body of Christian believers up until Constantine, with the only exceptions being Gnostics like Marcion. That is a historical fact!!!

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

The day after the rapture I’ll be with Jesus Christ and many of my loved ones, including my baby daughter that I can’t wait to be with!

Rose42

Pauline Christians have a bizarre view of scripture as well. Some believe Paul contradicted Christ.

Rose42

What you did - yet again - is expose yourself as a false teacher. To see the t***h you have to totally surrender yourself and that means setting aside your p***e.

You need a good biblically sound teacher.

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

My goodness! You spend an enormous amount of space, time and energy to explain a scripture!

Let me make it a bit more simple! Our works are a result or proof of our faith. Some have more, some have less, more or less, has no effect on our salvation, but we will be rewarded for this “fruit”!!!!!!

This is one of those verses that is not dependent on our Salvation! Whether it is faith + works = Salvation or
Whether it is faith + nothing = Salvation

If we are saved by believing and accepting that Jesus Christ is our Savior, his birth, death on the cross, his resurrection, that his blood sacrifice washed our sins away.......in other words, the Good News that Paul taught....then our faith will be revealed in our works or our FRUITS!