proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA

Nunes was the first one to say that Steele's Dossier was used to get FISA to spy on American citizens and he was ridiculed for this endlessly for at least 2 years!!!

working class stiff Loc: N. Carolina

No we don't.

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

Lindsey Graham breaks down the IG report. Kleinsmith is one that will be a very revealing testimony in the Senate Impeachment Trial if it comes to that.

I predict that the House will v**e to censure Trump instead of sending it to the Senate for trial. The Democrats can't possibly be so stupid as to have all of this play out again in public with national TV coverage. How can the media again ignore the t***h? Congress, especially the Democrats such as Schiff and Pelosi, are treasonous thieving bastards. Bring all of them in for testimony or at least be deposed by Barr and the AG. We Americans want to hear from Ohr, McCabe, Steele, Strzok, Page, Comey, Brennen, Clapper, Obama and every one of the casts of characters involved in this c**p.

If I was a FISA Court Judge, I would want everyone who pushed for surveillance and lied to the court to appear before me to be cited for contempt of court, perjury or worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0l5VpTqjRs

Liberty Tree

Of course not, that would require too much integrity.

working class stiff Loc: N. Carolina

Not a question of integrity, at least not for Democrats. It's hard to take Nunes seriously after the clown show he starred in during the hearings.

proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA

Of course they're so stupid!!!!! Come on dtucker!!!!! They are that stupid!!!

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

Not all of them, but yes, those deeply involved. They still think they can lie their way out of trouble. However, they don't have Hillary and an AG to protect them like they thought they would. If they ever come to their senses they will want to end this once and for all before all the t***h is eventually revealed, they will push for a censure v**e, or less, in Congress. Eventually, the t***h wins out though.

Here's Ted Cruz facing off with Michael Horowitz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ny0GtrO2E4

Liberty Tree

You support Schiff and accuse others of a clown show? You libs just cannot stand the fact that people like Nunes are going to fight back.

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

The "D" in Democrats stands for Deception. I'd like to think they aren't but you are probably correct. I want the impeachment to go to trial in the Senate. This is the legacy of Obama and his scheme to fundamentally change America.

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

I want the impeachment v**e to go to the Senate. Expose the Democrats and RINOs for who they are.

House Democrats are Stuck – Censure or Impeachment?
Posted Wednesday, December 11, 2019 | By Robert B. Charles | 64 Comments
censure
Arguments for censure – versus House impeachment – are growing. House Democrats are stuck. Poll numbers show public support for impeachment sliding, only 12 percent of Independents favoring that draconian course. Surely, our Founders are shaking their heads.

Objectively, the two articles introduced are almost laughable, if consequences were not serious. One makes a high crime of seeking criminal justice through foreign policy, the other asserts an inventive “obstruction of Congress” claim – for which every administration back to Gerald Ford could be found guilty. Vulnerable Democrats are having second thoughts. Against them is Speaker Pelosi’s whip machine, which pushes Democrats – or else. Here is the latest.

Currently, two Democrats have peeled off, Jeff Van Drew (D-NJ) and Collin Peterson (D-MN). Neither supported the inquiry; their opposition to impeachment is predictable. They are two of 31 Democrats in districts T***p w*n easily in 2016. T***p w*n Van Drew’s by 4.5 percent, and Peterson’s by 31 points. That was before a roaring economy and misguided impeachment.

The plot thickens. On December 9, “roughly ten” Democratic members from districts won by Trump “huddled” privately. They caucused over an “11th-hour bid to weigh additional — though unlikely — options to punish the president for his role in the Ukraine scandal as the House speeds toward an impeachment v**e next week.”

The group included Democratic Congressmen Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.), Kurt Schrader (D-Ore.), Anthony Brindisi (D-N.Y.), and Ben McAdams (D-Utah.). If those four peel off, six are gone.

A public decision to v**e against impeachment, if that is where the group goes, would encourage the remaining 25 in Trump-won districts to join them. If just 11 more Democrats peel off, House leadership cannot hit 217 to carry impeachment forward. Democrats have only 233 members, so losing 11 more (on top of the six) would put them at 216.

In other words, if Democrats are down by six, House leadership must whip this v**e hard or lose v**es essential to assuring impeachment. To put impeachment to a v**e on of the House and lose would be an embarrassment bigger than any faced so far.

The alternative is to back off, spin censure as a “magnanimous act,” pretending they are respecting the Constitution – in effect, adopting Republican talking points about impeachment as an inappropriate penalty for executive indiscretion.

That is why the discussion is live, and what happens next is genuinely unclear. The Democrats are at an inflection point. They can rush to impeach, satisfying their aggressive, vocal base – at the cost of dozens of seats, possibly control of the House. Or they can lick their wounds, pull in their horns, and defend what they have done – without causing dozens of vulnerable members to crash and burn over impeachment next fall.

All this is based on logic, rationality and a thoughtful view of the moment, in context of both past and future. That said, expect all this reasoning to count for little. The Democratic House majority is alive with emotion, hurrying to a conclusion, likely unable to reassess the consequences of the headlong rush. They have either intentionally or inadvertently painted many Democratic members into a corner. Their leaders seem not to care.

The basis for this onrush is clear to most Americans. Democratic leadership is infused with anti-Trump pathos. They are excited to impeach, unlikely to pause for logic, rethinking rule of law, rationality or even the implications for fellow members of their enthusiasms. They are more likely to cause fellow Democrats to cast the painful – probably fatal – v**e.

All this said, even the House Whip, James Clyburn (D-SC), knows things are dicey. He announced this week leaders “expect to lose some” v**es – with a tense smile. The smile covers concern. Even he knows Democratic leadership boxed members into a v**e that could end congressional careers – to support articles and an outcome in which many do not believe. Worse still, rank and file Democrats know the outcome was – and remains – avoidable, despite rhetoric to the contrary.

When Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-CA), Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerald Nadler (D-NY), and House Speaker Pelosi (D-CA) say they “have no choice but to impeach,” that is hooey. They have choices. One would avoid further political bloodletting, resist personal animus, and lead to an adult resolution. That is censure.

Where will this end? That remains to be seen, but the closer an impeachment v**e comes, the more leadership hotheads in the Democratic caucus are giving rank-and-file members cold feet. The obvious option – least bad remaining for overwrought Democrats – is probably censure. That outcome could still emerge, putting impeachment to bed – fully and finally – before Christmas.

Unfortunately, as with so many prior off-ramps, don’t count on Democratic leadership turning. The American people, time-honored traditions, sacred institutions of our Republic, and even members of their caucus seem to matter less than seeing harm done to this president. While censure remains entirely possible, impeachment is still most likely. Surely, our Founders are shaking their heads.

working class stiff Loc: N. Carolina

And clearly you can't stand the fact that those you accuse will fight back. Sauce for the goose, man....

Have a good evening.

JediKnight

And it has been proven numerous times that the FBI requested (and was granted) the FISA on Page months before the dossier even came out. The lies from republicans -like crying that the "dems are not allowing us to call witnesses before the House" -knowing that it was the republicans that changed the rules to what they currently are back in 2015 - is just stupendous. Can republicans do anything meaningful and positive without c***ting? It doesn't appear so.

teabag09

What makes you think the FISA judges aren't in on this crap? Mike

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

It doesn't matter which came first. Page was an asset for the intelligence community and the FISA request was changed to say he was not. The FISA Judge should be incensed at this kind of reckless behavior by FBI FISA applications against American citizens for political reasons rather than national security.

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

They may very well be. Do we really need a FISA Court considering the abuses they have had a hand in?
The government spies on citizens and the tech companies aid and abet this breakdown of civil rights. The Patriot Act did nothing to keep any of us safer. The FISA court was a short-cut to do an end-run around Echelon and meta-data collection. Both parties are responsible for the breakdown of our civil liberties. Being from CA, Feinstein and Harris are two of the worst senators who don't trust the American citizens. Forty million people in the state and these two are the best we can get? I don't think so. We need to clean house of the elites who think they know better than everyone else what is best for all of us. They don't!