Is everything fixed? Predestination is the doctrine that all events lead to the eventual fate of the soul, pre-determined
Nov 6, 2019 23:48:40 #
Predestination is a doctrine in Calvinism dealing with the question of the control that God exercises over the world. In the words of the Westminster Confession of Faith, God "freely and unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass and the souls bound for Salvation."
In my 70 years as a Christian, but better to put that within fifty years, I have never heard a sermon or discussion on this topic. It would make a lie that Jesus died for the whole world. It would make a lie of free will.
Listen to this: John 15:16. "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."
37 Interesting Bible Verses About Predestination: https://www.ryanhart.org/predestination-bible-verses/
Hard to ignore the topic or sidestep it or whitewash it. Can anyone here offer a good enough explanation against predestination that may find a place for free will?
In my 70 years as a Christian, but better to put that within fifty years, I have never heard a sermon or discussion on this topic. It would make a lie that Jesus died for the whole world. It would make a lie of free will.
Listen to this: John 15:16. "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."
37 Interesting Bible Verses About Predestination: https://www.ryanhart.org/predestination-bible-verses/
Hard to ignore the topic or sidestep it or whitewash it. Can anyone here offer a good enough explanation against predestination that may find a place for free will?
Nov 7, 2019 00:30:08 #
rumitoid wrote:
Predestination is a doctrine in Calvinism dealing ... (show quote)
Absolutely ...
How else could one have faith...
Give me a while though... On my way to class... Will try to type quickly...
Nov 7, 2019 00:44:50 #
rumitoid wrote:
Predestination is a doctrine in Calvinism dealing ... (show quote)
Predestination falls under the entire "God is omniscient" premise... That there is nothing God does not know... And that the future is an open book to Him...
Hence the dilemma...
If God knows everything, how can free will exist?
It's simple...
It's a false dilemma...
God literally knows everything...
Following? No? No problem...
Godmother only knows the choices laid out before a person, but the decisions that person will male, and the consequences of that decision...
See? Got it yet? Still no?
God is aware of all the choices...And all of the decisions...This includes the possible decisions... And possible consequences...
Eureka? No?
God is literally aware of all choices and consequences.. Because they all exist in potential... But the optional choices and consequences will cease to exist once the individual makes a choice..This is free will... Unless God influences the choice..
Clear now? Really? No?
God knows all the choices and consequences of potential actions because they are all equally real, up until the point where an individual actually influences the options via exercise of free will...
Need an example? Certainly...
Thee are three doors... God knows which door you will choose because the potential to choose all three exists... There are literally three futures existing at this point... He also knows all of the consequences of opening each door...Because those futures all exist at this point... He even knows which door you will choose...Because there are three futures and in each one you have chosen a door... Each future is equally valid...
Now enters free will... you actually choose a door... And two futures cease to exist...
God always knee you would choose that door... Not because He was controlling you... But because it, like all futures was preordained... But not to the exclusion of other potential futures....
Still confused? Sorry can't make it any clearer...
But quantum physics is touching upon this very thing... Possible alternate realities and diverging timelines... Fascinating how science eventually leads one back to God...
Nov 7, 2019 17:42:04 #
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Predestination falls under the entire "God is... (show quote)
Predestination is as defined: our will does not matter; our fate is pre-determined, not just God knowing what happens.
Nov 7, 2019 21:56:28 #
rumitoid wrote:
Predestination is as defined: our will does not matter; our fate is pre-determined, not just God knowing what happens.
Understood... Didn't I include that in the first sentence
Nov 7, 2019 22:06:13 #
Nov 8, 2019 09:21:19 #
rumitoid wrote:
Predestination is a doctrine in Calvinism dealing ... (show quote)
Are you saying we have no free will?
Nov 8, 2019 10:01:26 #
Rose42 wrote:
Are you saying we have nomfree will?
Free will is conundrum to any who believe in an omniscient God
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