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Nov 15, 2019 11:03:21   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
Mark Twain is one of the most beloved figures in the world of American authors.

When I read that poem as it had been posted, I could not believe that the beloved Mark Twain of American literary history could have written such a cruel, heartless, devoid of human emotion sentiment, so I did a search, and learned that indeed, he never intended for it to be understood as it is when removed from the context in which he wrote it.

Correcting the understanding of that for all those who will pull it up in a search and read it here is NOT pointless.

The fact that you find it pointless to add historical understanding and context to a post involving a man of Mark Twain's stature, says a great deal about you, and your reasoning; which is not positive, but shallow in this regard.
Mark Twain is one of the most beloved figures in t... (show quote)


How'd old Sam feel about God?

In your opinion...

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Nov 15, 2019 11:08:47   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Mark Twain has long since met God face to face. That is very much between the two of them.

Use diversionary tactics much?



Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
How'd old Sam feel about God?

In your opinion...

Reply
Nov 15, 2019 11:11:00   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
Mark Twain has long since met God face to face. That is very much between the two of them.

Use diversionary tactics much?


No diversion...

You have no trouble calling out others when it suits you.. Darwin comes to mind

Reply
 
 
Nov 15, 2019 11:19:17   #
Rose42
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
No diversion...

You have no trouble calling out others when it suits you.. Darwin comes to mind


The same can be said of you and just about everyone. Lol

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Nov 15, 2019 11:23:36   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Rose42 wrote:
The same can be said of you and just about everyone. Lol


Right

Reply
Nov 15, 2019 11:26:05   #
JediKnight
 


One for the Father, one for the Son, and one for the Holy Spirit!

Reply
Nov 15, 2019 12:52:04   #
Singularity
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Pointlessly done


The point might be more singular, then.

Providing context is a Christian duty in regards to atheists' interpretations, no?

Reply
 
 
Nov 15, 2019 13:50:32   #
Fodaoson Loc: South Texas
 
Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” ... So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”. Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? ... Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter ... John 3:3 3:8 ESV

Born again, or to experience the new birth, is a phrase, particularly in evangelicalism, that refers to "spiritual rebirth", or a regeneration of the human spirit from the Holy Spirit, contrasted with physical birth.
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:35 NIV
English Standard Version
By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

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Nov 15, 2019 14:10:20   #
Fodaoson Loc: South Texas
 
There are four types of love in the New Testament. Four Greek words are t***slated into English as LOVE
The four loves
• Storge – empathy bond.
• Philia – friend bond.
• Eros – romantic love.
• Agape – unconditional "God" love.

Ancient Greek has seven words for love
• 1)Eros: Love of the body. This type of love illustrates sexual attraction, physical desire towards others, and a lack of control. ...
• 2)Philia: Affectionate love- ...
• 3)Storge: Love of the Child. ...
• 4)Agape: Selfless Love. ...
• 5)Ludus: Playful Love. ...
• 6)Pragma: Long-lasting Love. ...
• 7)Philautia: Love of the Self.

Reply
Nov 16, 2019 21:55:22   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Blade: I am almost finished vetting the verses you supplied concerning the divinity of Christ... Should be able to post the reply tonight or tomorrow morning...

But coming back to our discussion concerning God having victories... Do you believe it is possible for God to make a mistake?

This is an earnest question...

Hope you are well...

Reply
Nov 16, 2019 23:17:47   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
For Parky:

Quote:

Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God The Creator

1.) Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.
Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

2.) Matthew 26:39
My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as Thou will.
Jesus’ will is likewise autonomous from God’s Will. Jesus is seeking acquiescence to God’s will.

3.) John 5:26
For as the Father has life in Himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Jesus received his life from God. God received his life from no one. He is eternally self-existent.

4.) John 5:30
By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me.
Jesus says, “by myself, I can do nothing.” This indicates that Jesus is relying upon his own relationship with God. He is not trying to “please myself” but rather is seeking to “please the one who sent me.”

5.) John 5:19
The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees the Father doing, because wh**ever the Father does, the Son does also.
Jesus declares that he is following a pattern laid down by God. He is expressing obedience to God.

6.) Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
Here Jesus emphatically makes a distinction between himself and God.

7.) John 14:28
The Father is greater than I.
This is another strong statement that makes a distinction between Jesus and God.

8.) Matthew 6:9
Our Father, which art in Heaven.
He didn’t pray, Our Father, which art standing right here!”

9.) Matthew 27:46
My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Inconceivable if he is God the Creator.

10.) John 17:21-23
. . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. . ..that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me.
In this prayer Jesus defines the term “to be one.” It is clearly accomplished through the relationship of two autonomous beings. Christian believers are to model their relationship (to become one) after the relationship of God and Christ (as God and Christ are one). Notice that “to be one” does not mean to be “one and the same.”

11.) 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Paul declares that God put everything under Christ, except God himself. Instead God rules all things through Christ. (remember: “through him all things were made.”)

12.) Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.
Jesus is the exact representation of his being. I send my representative to Congress. He is not me, myself. He is my representative.

13.) Hebrews 4:15 (compared with James 1:13)
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet without sin.
Jesus has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he never sinned. See

James 1:13: When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt.
Jesus was tempted in every way, but God cannot be tempted. This is why Jesus said, “don’t call me good, none are good, only God.”

14.) Hebrews 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Jesus had to walk a course of faith and obedience in order to achieve perfection. By achieving perfection, Jesus “became” the source of eternal salvation.
br Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God Th... (show quote)

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Nov 17, 2019 03:43:49   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Looking at the worldwide behavior of mankind, you have to ask?


Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
... Do you believe it is possible for God to make a mistake?...

Reply
Nov 17, 2019 03:59:46   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
Looking at the worldwide behavior of mankind, you have to ask?


Wow... Good point...

Although I like to think that overall the good outweighs the bad...

Hope you've been well...

Reply
Nov 17, 2019 04:13:14   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
I posted this previously; it answers the verses you mistakenly claim prove lack of deity.

Jesus emptied Himself of the qualities of deity you're screeching about being lacking, while He was here incarnate, resuming those powers upon His return to His eternal heavenly home, at God the Father's side, from whence He had come to earth.

[Jesus Christ] "Who, though he was God, did not demand and cling to his rights as God, but laid aside (while on earth) his mighty power and glory, and emptied Himself, taking the form of a s***e and becoming like men." (Philippians 2:6-7)

1. He emptied Himself of glory (while here on earth). In John 17:5, Jesus prayed, “Glorify me...with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.” He gave up the adoration of the saints and angels when He came into this world.

2. He emptied Himself of His independent authority (while here on earth). In John 5:30, Jesus said, “I can do nothing on My own.”

He brought Himself into a different relationship with the Father, where ALL of His activities and actions had to be cleared in that unusual way.
Though equal with the Father, now temporarily uniquely submissive to God the Father.

3. He temporarily released the voluntary exercise of His divine attributes. Compare John 1:43–51 with Matthew 24:36 to see how Jesus sometimes was omniscient and sometimes not (while on earth).

4. He gave up eternal riches... the treatment that the Son of God, the King of the universe, gets in heaven.

Yet 2 Corinthians 8:9 says, “...though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.”

5. He gave up His intimate relationship with the Father (when on the cross). Who can describe the fellowship that exists between the first and second Person of the Trinity?

...And to hear Jesus on the cross in Matthew 27:46 beseeching, “My God, why have You forsaken Me?” He made Himself nothing — for you and for me (while here on earth).



Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God The Creator

1.) Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.
Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

2.) Matthew 26:39
My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as Thou will.
Jesus’ will is likewise autonomous from God’s Will. Jesus is seeking acquiescence to God’s will.

3.) John 5:26
For as the Father has life in Himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Jesus received his life from God. God received his life from no one. He is eternally self-existent.

4.) John 5:30
By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me.
Jesus says, “by myself, I can do nothing.” This indicates that Jesus is relying upon his own relationship with God. He is not trying to “please myself” but rather is seeking to “please the one who sent me.”

5.) John 5:19
The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees the Father doing, because wh**ever the Father does, the Son does also.
Jesus declares that he is following a pattern laid down by God. He is expressing obedience to God.

6.) Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
Here Jesus emphatically makes a distinction between himself and God.

7.) John 14:28
The Father is greater than I.
This is another strong statement that makes a distinction between Jesus and God.

8.) Matthew 6:9
Our Father, which art in Heaven.
He didn’t pray, Our Father, which art standing right here!”

9.) Matthew 27:46
My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Inconceivable if he is God the Creator.

10.) John 17:21-23
. . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. . ..that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me.
In this prayer Jesus defines the term “to be one.” It is clearly accomplished through the relationship of two autonomous beings. Christian believers are to model their relationship (to become one) after the relationship of God and Christ (as God and Christ are one). Notice that “to be one” does not mean to be “one and the same.”

11.) 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Paul declares that God put everything under Christ, except God himself. Instead God rules all things through Christ. (remember: “through him all things were made.”)

12.) Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.
Jesus is the exact representation of his being. I send my representative to Congress. He is not me, myself. He is my representative.

13.) Hebrews 4:15 (compared with James 1:13)
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet without sin.
Jesus has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he never sinned. See

James 1:13: When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt.
Jesus was tempted in every way, but God cannot be tempted. This is why Jesus said, “don’t call me good, none are good, only God.”

14.) Hebrews 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Jesus had to walk a course of faith and obedience in order to achieve perfection. By achieving perfection, Jesus “became” the source of eternal salvation.
Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God The Cr... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 17, 2019 04:41:42   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
I posted this previously; it answers the verses you mistakenly claim prove lack of deity.


I reposted because Parky claimed that I had deleted my original post... And he therefore couldn't respond to it...

Hence my use of his name at the beginning of the post...

Quote:
Jesus emptied Himself of the qualities of deity you're screeching about being lacking, while He was here incarnate, resuming those powers upon His return to His eternal heavenly home, at God the Father's side, from whence He had come to earth.


An interesting premise...

Quote:
[Jesus Christ] "Who, though he was God, did not demand and cling to his rights as God, but laid aside (while on earth) his mighty power and glory, and emptied Himself, taking the form of a s***e and becoming like men." (Philippians 2:6-7)


No offense...But Phillippians 2:6-7 has been addressed before... I agree that it's a great verse... But it doesn't support your stance...
If you thought it had been inadequately addressed you could have illuminated us as to your understanding...

Quote:
1. He emptied Himself of glory (while here on earth). In John 17:5, Jesus prayed, “Glorify me...with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.” He gave up the adoration of the saints and angels when He came into this world.


Hebrews 1:3-6 seems to contradict you're interpretation..

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

Hmmm... He was created... Then the angels of God were told to worship him...

Quote:
2. He emptied Himself of His independent authority (while here on earth). In John 5:30, Jesus said, “I can do nothing on My own.”

He brought Himself into a different relationship with the Father, where ALL of His activities and actions had to be cleared in that unusual way.
Though equal with the Father, now temporarily uniquely submissive to God the Father.


He never claimed otherwise.. Nor did he state there was ever a time when he had or would be able to do otherwise... This verse doesn't support your premise... Find the verse that states he was only temporarily submissive to God...

Quote:
3. He temporarily released the voluntary exercise of His divine attributes. Compare John 1:43–51 with Matthew 24:36 to see how Jesus sometimes was omniscient and sometimes not (while on earth).


Ridiculous... One cannot be temporarily omniscient...

Matthew 24:36 literally states that only God knows...

Quote:
4. He gave up eternal riches... the treatment that the Son of God, the King of the universe, gets in heaven.

Yet 2 Corinthians 8:9 says, “...though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.”


Reading quite a bit into that verse...
One might argue that there is no sacrifice in temporarily and voluntarily relieving oneself of one's wealth....

Quote:
5. He gave up His intimate relationship with the Father (when on the cross). Who can describe the fellowship that exists between the first and second Person of the Trinity?

...And to hear Jesus on the cross in Matthew 27:46 beseeching, “My God, why have You forsaken Me?” He made Himself nothing — for you and for me (while here on earth).


Wow! So the Trinity became a Duality for a short period of time

Bet that messed with the universe... Which state of water at so and so pressure and such and such temperature do you think ceased to exist?

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