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Trump, "gutting the nation of its principles" US Navy Adm. William McRaven
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Oct 18, 2019 12:17:51   #
Radiance3
 
Smedley_buzk**l wrote:
This is the same Andrew McRaven who was terminated from SEAL6 because he was unable to hack it.


===============
I think he is a coward and retired disgruntled.

Reply
Oct 18, 2019 12:38:23   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
Gatsby wrote:
US Navy Adm. William McRaven promotes spending American Lives in wars that we have absolutely

no intention of WINNING. I find that to be d********g.




I do agree that if we are going to be in a war, we should win it. I have a problem with us being in them in the first place.

'To make the world safe for democracy' was a delusional fabrication by Woodrow Wilson. In 1940, while FDR was saying 'agayne and agayne and agayne' that our bouys will not fight on foreign soil, to be re-elected, he was promising Winston Churchill that we'd enter the war on Britain's side.

That was his motive, on the one hand, but on the other, there was a lot of panic- stricken maneuvering by Stalin supporters, including much of his staff and his wife the redoubtable Eleanor, whose goal was to ensure the survival of c*******m.

The War of 1812 had imperialistic motives as did the Mexican-American and Spanish-American Wars.

Reply
Oct 18, 2019 14:24:17   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
PeterS wrote:
I'm sure conservatives will engage in a character assassination as that seems to be the only argument they can muster for Trump. What they can't do is engage in an argument to convince others that the Adm. and others are wrong. That kind of argument is beyond them leaving the Admirals statement standing as the t***h...

https://www.businessinsider.com/william-mcraven-navy-seal-us-is-under-attack-from-trump-2019-10?utm_content=bufferdfa53&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi&fbclid=IwAR2PPieksgXjpt_xkcy9Ow0JSwL-2SIwMrPTCe_gUIcq1EZgcdlSqfGRbJo

The retired US Navy Adm. William McRaven, a Navy SEAL who oversaw the raid that took out al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden in 2011, gave a bleak assessment of President Donald Trump and alleged the commander in chief was gutting the country of the "nation's principles."

In his fiercest condemnation against the president yet, McRaven recounted in a New York Times opinion column a military ceremony he recently attended at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he reflected upon the thousands of US service members who marched on the parade field before him.

McRaven pointed out what he said were examples of the US neglecting its duty to be the "the protectors of the less fortunate" — including Trump's recent decision to withdraw troops from Syria as Turkish-backed militants wage war against the once US-backed Kurdish m*****a.

McRaven added that Trump "is wrong" to think empathy is "unimportant" or shows "weakness."
Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

The retired US Navy Adm. William McRaven, a Navy SEAL who oversaw the raid that took out al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden in 2011, gave a bleak assessment of President Donald Trump and alleged the commander in chief was gutting the country of the "nation's principles."

In his fiercest condemnation of the president yet, McRaven recounted in a New York Times opinion column, titled "Our Republic Is Under Attack From the President," a military ceremony he recently attended at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he reflected upon the thousands of US service members who marched on the parade field before him.

"For everyone who ever served in uniform, or in the intelligence community, for those diplomats who voice the nation's principles, for the first responders, for the tellers of t***h and the millions of American citizens who were raised believing in American values — you would have seen your reflection in the faces of those we honored last week," McRaven wrote.

But "beneath the outward sense of hope and duty," McRaven wrote that "there was an underlying current of frustration, humiliation, anger and fear."
I'm sure conservatives will engage in a character ... (show quote)
Good job. Pete.

Let's begin with your opening statement:

"I'm sure conservatives will engage in a character assassination as that seems to be the only argument they can muster for Trump.

Whose character is being assassinated here? Whose character has been under assault for over three years? McRaven's or Donald Trump's?

Is it just Donald Trump's character that has been attacked? Or has it also been the character of his wife, his family, his appointed officers, his department heads, his staff, his friends and associates, his lawyers, and his supporters?

Are conservatives the ones driving this campaign of character assassination?

I was raised believing in American values, I served in uniform, I served as a first responder, and I am offended by McRaven's opinion of me. In the Navy and in the fire department, I served under a few officers who were not the stellar, unblemished characters you seem to think they all are. Just because a man (or woman) has some brass or stars on their shoulders doesn't magically turn them into saints. Some officers I served with were conceited, self serving, and power hungry assholes, they polished their own brass and kissed their superiors' ass. However, most of the officers I served with were good guys, some were exceptional leaders.

Next time, before you try to hook conservatives and goad them into responding as you hope they will, get all your s**t together and think things through.

Reply
 
 
Oct 18, 2019 16:19:00   #
Seth
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Good job. Pete.

Let's begin with your opening statement:

"I'm sure conservatives will engage in a character assassination as that seems to be the only argument they can muster for Trump.

Whose character is being assassinated here? Whose character has been under assault for over three years? McRaven's or Donald Trump's?

Is it just Donald Trump's character that has been attacked? Or has it also been the character of his wife, his family, his appointed officers, his department heads, his staff, his friends and associates, his lawyers, and his supporters?

Are conservatives the ones driving this campaign of character assassination?

I was raised believing in American values, I served in uniform, I served as a first responder, and I am offended by McRaven's opinion of me. In the Navy and in the fire department, I served under a few officers who were not the stellar, unblemished characters you seem to think they all are. Just because a man (or woman) has some brass or stars on their shoulders doesn't magically turn them into saints. Some officers I served with were conceited, self serving, and power hungry assholes, they polished their own brass and kissed their superiors' ass. However, most of the officers I served with were good guys, some were exceptional leaders.

Next time, before you try to hook conservatives and goad them into responding as you hope they will, get all your s**t together and think things through.
Good job. Pete. br br Let's begin with your openi... (show quote)



Reply
Oct 18, 2019 16:34:45   #
Radiance3
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Good job. Pete.

Let's begin with your opening statement:

"I'm sure conservatives will engage in a character assassination as that seems to be the only argument they can muster for Trump.

Whose character is being assassinated here? Whose character has been under assault for over three years? McRaven's or Donald Trump's?

Is it just Donald Trump's character that has been attacked? Or has it also been the character of his wife, his family, his appointed officers, his department heads, his staff, his friends and associates, his lawyers, and his supporters?

Are conservatives the ones driving this campaign of character assassination?

I was raised believing in American values, I served in uniform, I served as a first responder, and I am offended by McRaven's opinion of me. In the Navy and in the fire department, I served under a few officers who were not the stellar, unblemished characters you seem to think they all are. Just because a man (or woman) has some brass or stars on their shoulders doesn't magically turn them into saints. Some officers I served with were conceited, self serving, and power hungry assholes, they polished their own brass and kissed their superiors' ass. However, most of the officers I served with were good guys, some were exceptional leaders.

Next time, before you try to hook conservatives and goad them into responding as you hope they will, get all your s**t together and think things through.
Good job. Pete. br br Let's begin with your openi... (show quote)

=============

Reply
Oct 18, 2019 20:58:14   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
moldyoldy wrote:
Anybody who stands up to trump, wins.


U.S.C. §§ 801–946 is the foundation of military law - UCMJ.
U.S. Code § 888. Art. 88. (Contempt toward officials) states:

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

U.S. Code § 802. Art. 2. Persons subject to Art. 88 includes the following under Section (a), subparagraph (4): Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay (retirement pension) are subject to court martial.

IOW, retirees must refrain from political advocacy that could be construed as an official endorsement on the part of the armed services.

Reply
Oct 18, 2019 23:34:15   #
Radiance3
 
PeterS wrote:
I'm sure conservatives will engage in a character assassination as that seems to be the only argument they can muster for Trump. What they can't do is engage in an argument to convince others that the Adm. and others are wrong. That kind of argument is beyond them leaving the Admirals statement standing as the t***h...

https://www.businessinsider.com/william-mcraven-navy-seal-us-is-under-attack-from-trump-2019-10?utm_content=bufferdfa53&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi&fbclid=IwAR2PPieksgXjpt_xkcy9Ow0JSwL-2SIwMrPTCe_gUIcq1EZgcdlSqfGRbJo

The retired US Navy Adm. William McRaven, a Navy SEAL who oversaw the raid that took out al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden in 2011, gave a bleak assessment of President Donald Trump and alleged the commander in chief was gutting the country of the "nation's principles."

In his fiercest condemnation against the president yet, McRaven recounted in a New York Times opinion column a military ceremony he recently attended at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he reflected upon the thousands of US service members who marched on the parade field before him.

McRaven pointed out what he said were examples of the US neglecting its duty to be the "the protectors of the less fortunate" — including Trump's recent decision to withdraw troops from Syria as Turkish-backed militants wage war against the once US-backed Kurdish m*****a.

McRaven added that Trump "is wrong" to think empathy is "unimportant" or shows "weakness."
Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

The retired US Navy Adm. William McRaven, a Navy SEAL who oversaw the raid that took out al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden in 2011, gave a bleak assessment of President Donald Trump and alleged the commander in chief was gutting the country of the "nation's principles."

In his fiercest condemnation of the president yet, McRaven recounted in a New York Times opinion column, titled "Our Republic Is Under Attack From the President," a military ceremony he recently attended at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he reflected upon the thousands of US service members who marched on the parade field before him.

"For everyone who ever served in uniform, or in the intelligence community, for those diplomats who voice the nation's principles, for the first responders, for the tellers of t***h and the millions of American citizens who were raised believing in American values — you would have seen your reflection in the faces of those we honored last week," McRaven wrote.

But "beneath the outward sense of hope and duty," McRaven wrote that "there was an underlying current of frustration, humiliation, anger and fear."
I'm sure conservatives will engage in a character ... (show quote)

================
As a military rule and discipline, a US Military Officer must not be insubordinate to the Commander-in-Chief of the US Armed Forces, the president of the United States. And US Navy Adm. William McRaven just did that. He must be under Court Martial even if he is retired. I hope you know this PeterS.

Reply
 
 
Oct 18, 2019 23:37:35   #
Radiance3
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
U.S.C. §§ 801–946 is the foundation of military law - UCMJ.
U.S. Code § 888. Art. 88. (Contempt toward officials) states:

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

U.S. Code § 802. Art. 2. Persons subject to Art. 88 includes the following under Section (a), subparagraph (4): Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay (retirement pension) are subject to court martial.

IOW, retirees must refrain from political advocacy that could be construed as an official endorsement on the part of the armed services.
U.S.C. §§ 801–946 is the foundation of military la... (show quote)

===============
Excellent..

Reply
Oct 19, 2019 08:13:01   #
Big Kahuna
 
Lonewolf wrote:
And I call even a good Ally on the battlefield without warning it's probably the most d********g cowardly act I've ever witnessed


McRaven is McRaving mad. Just another of Ovommits plants in the military. Yes, the military that ovommit despised unless you were gay or wanted a s*x c****e operation or were a military deserter then ovommit loved you. Trying to convert the military to an l***qxyz favored one was the most cowardly act that any President ever tried. WHERE were you then McRaving mad? Ovommit drew red lines in the sand then tucked tail an ran when they were crossed. Ovommit was a weeny.

Reply
Oct 19, 2019 08:14:30   #
bylm1-Bernie
 
Seth wrote:
McRaven is one citizen speaking his mind. I know a few former SEALs who, just like anybody else, would have a different opinion.

I'll also note that I have yet to see a Business Insider piece that isn't anti-Trump, leading me to "suspect" that, like the New York Times (whom they quote in the posted article), cherry picks only "news" and opinion critical of the president.

So what's your point?



You are right, Seth.

Reply
Oct 19, 2019 08:46:26   #
waltmoreno
 
Smedley_buzk**l wrote:
This is the same Andrew McRaven who was terminated from SEAL6 because he was unable to hack it.


And the same Admiral McRaven who has been a Trump critic for a long time. He's outlived his usefulness as a member of our fighting forces. Time for him to retire and rest on his laurels.

Reply
 
 
Oct 19, 2019 08:48:53   #
Big Kahuna
 
Radiance3 wrote:
================
As a military rule and discipline, a US Military Officer must not be insubordinate to the Commander-in-Chief of the US Armed Forces, the president of the United States. And US Navy Adm. William McRaven just did that. He must be under Court Martial even if he is retired. I hope you know this PeterS.


Court martial Adm. McRaving Mad. Throw him in the brig.

Reply
Oct 19, 2019 09:35:05   #
son of witless
 
moldyoldy wrote:
We left Iraq because Bush had made a Status of Forces agreement that required us to leave.


Not accurate.

Reply
Oct 19, 2019 09:39:36   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
moldyoldy wrote:
We left Iraq because Bush had made a Status of Forces agreement that required us to leave.


No, it was because we "couldn't" get a status of forces agreement Obama might at least have tried!

Reply
Oct 19, 2019 10:43:22   #
greenmountaineer Loc: Vermont
 
I will agree with you that this Wilsonian philosophy got us into those wars except for WWII. We had tried using sanctions against Japan, cutting off shipments of scrap iron and petroleum if I recall correctly, in an effort to get them to stop their invasion of China. This was all about economic concerns because we wanted to trade with China. But the Japanese response was to attack us. With the 1st Battleship Division sunk in the mud of Pearl Harbor and the 19th Bombardment Group's B-17's scattered all over Clark Field in little pieces, the President requested that Congress declare war and there was only one dissenting v**e. A couple of days later, both Germany and italy declared war on us. But that Wilsonian philosophy goes back before Wilson. Teddy Roosevelt was also a big champion of spreading American culture to the world.

Reply
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