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Another lie from the republicans parroted on OPP by dupes
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Oct 1, 2019 19:21:38   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
woodguru wrote:
An impeachment is not a court of law, it is looser to accommodate a lesser degree of procedural proof with heavier emphasis on deeds that are obviously evident.

If a president refuses to provide information under subpoena it's far easier to maintain in an impeachment than the i***tic procedural crap that would be rolled out in a court of law.

When a whistleblower reports something all that matters is did it happen and was there proof supplied, not where did they hear about it.


You are very incorrect in your assessment of the importance of where was it heard and by whom. The reason second hand information is not admissible is because if can't be reliable. First hand information is eye witness testimony and the eye witness gives that account under penalty of perjury. With second hand information, the person telling it can simply fall back on "that's what I heard" but "I have no idea if it's true or not."

The person reporting second hand information has no responsibility to be t***hful about what he/she saw/heard/what ever. His information isn't his/hers.

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Oct 1, 2019 21:01:13   #
Navigator
 
Kevyn wrote:
Several people on OPP have been parroting a lie, and it is likely they aren’t lying themselves just that they have once again been conned by the I***t Pumpkinfuhrer’s crooked enablers. The lie is that the whistleblower law was changed in August allowing secondhand information, the t***h is that no such change happened it is just another lie told to give cover to Trumps crimes.
https://www.mediamatters.org/federalist/false-report-federalist-about-whistleblower-complaints-fuels-trump-defenders-impeachment
Several people on OPP have been parroting a lie, a... (show quote)


Your reference is incorrect. According to the Intel community, the form was changed to avoid the perception given by the original form that first hand knowledge is required. Again, according to the IC, first hand knowledge was never required. I don't know about the claims of the IC but it is apparent that the from absolutely was changed and it was changed after Trump's phone call.

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Oct 2, 2019 11:34:11   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Navigator wrote:
Your reference is incorrect. According to the Intel community, the form was changed to avoid the perception given by the original form that first hand knowledge is required. Again, according to the IC, first hand knowledge was never required. I don't know about the claims of the IC but it is apparent that the from absolutely was changed and it was changed after Trump's phone call.


So give us an example of any other whistle blower complaint or claim that was based upon second hand information? It's pretty much implied that second hand information is not eye witness evidence nor is it even considered. Other wise, I'll have the cops across the city writing tickets for second hand information they are going to get from me about running red lights, driving drunk, littering, jay walking, etc, etc.

And just consider how this can come back to haunt our world when, like in the Kavanaugh confirmation and other campaigns, we will begin to see more and more "victims" coming forward with accusations of who knows what 20 - 30 years ago and even worse, from any political opponent, endless whistle blower accusations being made against any public official from Mayor to President of the US. Our gov's will be so tied up with bogus BS that nothing will get done.

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Oct 2, 2019 14:39:01   #
Tug484
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
So give us an example of any other whistle blower complaint or claim that was based upon second hand information? It's pretty much implied that second hand information is not eye witness evidence nor is it even considered. Other wise, I'll have the cops across the city writing tickets for second hand information they are going to get from me about running red lights, driving drunk, littering, jay walking, etc, etc.

And just consider how this can come back to haunt our world when, like in the Kavanaugh confirmation and other campaigns, we will begin to see more and more "victims" coming forward with accusations of who knows what 20 - 30 years ago and even worse, from any political opponent, endless whistle blower accusations being made against any public official from Mayor to President of the US. Our gov's will be so tied up with bogus BS that nothing will get done.
So give us an example of any other whistle blower ... (show quote)


As bad as the red f**g law.
I'm mad, so I'll cause trouble for someone.
There are too many people that will do that.

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Oct 2, 2019 15:21:14   #
Navigator
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
So give us an example of any other whistle blower complaint or claim that was based upon second hand information? It's pretty much implied that second hand information is not eye witness evidence nor is it even considered. Other wise, I'll have the cops across the city writing tickets for second hand information they are going to get from me about running red lights, driving drunk, littering, jay walking, etc, etc.

And just consider how this can come back to haunt our world when, like in the Kavanaugh confirmation and other campaigns, we will begin to see more and more "victims" coming forward with accusations of who knows what 20 - 30 years ago and even worse, from any political opponent, endless whistle blower accusations being made against any public official from Mayor to President of the US. Our gov's will be so tied up with bogus BS that nothing will get done.
So give us an example of any other whistle blower ... (show quote)


If the form was just changed recently to allow 2nd hand accounts, I don't think there could be ANY 2nd hand complaints prior to the form being changed. What I can't figure out, if the "whistleblower" was not a deep state operative in collusion with House and MSM Democrats sniffing around for any kind of "dirt" that could be dug up on the President, why didn't those other swamp creatures who HAD 1st hand information that they funneled to the "whistleblower" file their own whistleblower complaint based upon their own 1st hand knowledge?

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Oct 2, 2019 15:25:00   #
Tug484
 
Navigator wrote:
If the form was just changed recently to allow 2nd hand accounts, I don't think there could be ANY 2nd hand complaints prior to the form being changed. What I can't figure out, if the "whistleblower" was not a deep state operative in collusion with House and MSM Democrats sniffing around for any kind of "dirt" that could be dug up on the President, why didn't those other swamp creatures who HAD 1st hand information that they funneled to the "whistleblower" file their own whistleblower complaint based upon their own 1st hand knowledge?
If the form was just changed recently to allow 2nd... (show quote)


Good question?
I think it's all horse pucky.

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Oct 2, 2019 18:14:41   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Navigator wrote:
If the form was just changed recently to allow 2nd hand accounts, I don't think there could be ANY 2nd hand complaints prior to the form being changed. What I can't figure out, if the "whistleblower" was not a deep state operative in collusion with House and MSM Democrats sniffing around for any kind of "dirt" that could be dug up on the President, why didn't those other swamp creatures who HAD 1st hand information that they funneled to the "whistleblower" file their own whistleblower complaint based upon their own 1st hand knowledge?
If the form was just changed recently to allow 2nd... (show quote)


I have asked the same question. It's because they probably didn't actually hear or see the things this blower is claiming. They might have said they heard the president wants Ukraine to look into Biden and his son's deals there and the blower, just like all these l*****ts, turned it up side down and interpreted that as they heard Trump was wanting to nuke Ukraine it they didn't give him dirt on Biden!

They do it all the time with his tweets why should be expect them to be any different with the other things they hear?

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Oct 3, 2019 13:12:48   #
Louie27 Loc: Peoria, AZ
 
Pariahjf wrote:
The controlling statute is 50 U.S. Code § 3033(k)(5)(G), which lays out the following requirements, none of which are firsthand knowledge:

(G) In this paragraph, the term “urgent concern” means any of the following:

(i) A serious or f**grant problem, abuse, violation of law or Executive order, or deficiency relating to the funding, administration, or operation of an intelligence activity within the responsibility and authority of the Director of National Intelligence involving classified information, but does not include differences of opinions concerning public policy matters.

(ii) A false statement to Congress, or a willful withholding from Congress, on an issue of material fact relating to the funding, administration, or operation of an intelligence activity.

(iii) An action, including a personnel action described in section 2302(a)(2)(A) of title 5, constituting reprisal or threat of reprisal prohibited under subsection (g)(3)(B) of this section in response to an employee’s reporting an urgent concern in accordance with this paragraph.
The controlling statute is 50 U.S. Code § 3033(k)(... (show quote)


What I have read is the whistle blower checked two box's on the form. One stated he had personal and/or direct knowledge of events or records involved. The second box also was checked, stating that " other employees have told me about events and records involved. The meaning of direct knowledge is, I assume, it to be he heard it from some source. That could be a news paper or a newscast. Hmmm. That could mean he or she heard it from the MSM.

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Oct 3, 2019 14:40:13   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Louie27 wrote:
What I have read is the whistle blower checked two box's on the form. One stated he had personal and/or direct knowledge of events or records involved. The second box also was checked, stating that " other employees have told me about events and records involved. The meaning of direct knowledge is, I assume, it to be he heard it from some source. That could be a news paper or a newscast. Hmmm. That could mean he or she heard it from the MSM.


It was the NYT who suggested to Schiff to use a "whistle blower" to try to get Trump so that's your source, as you suspected.

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