French solar panel roadway is a bust.
Tug484 wrote:
Wow. I didn't know that.
I am very anti Green. I used to argue with greenies all of the time and I spent a lot of time researching places where solar was really big to find out how well it really works, minus the hype. I used to know a lot more than I do now. since the Greenies are not as active as they were, I have not kept up on it.
What I remember is, that every nation that went hog wild for solar, eventually regretted it. Spain thought that solar would solve all of it's problems about 10 or 12 years ago. They poured money into it. The greenies in the US argued that America was falling behind Spain and many others in the solar economy. Well if you look up solar and Spain, it ain't pretty. America can be glad it was leading from behind, as Obama used to say, this time.
son of witless wrote:
I am very anti Green. I used to argue with greenies all of the time and I spent a lot of time researching places where solar was really big to find out how well it really works, minus the hype. I used to know a lot more than I do now. since the Greenies are not as active as they were, I have not kept up on it.
What I remember is, that every nation that went hog wild for solar, eventually regretted it. Spain thought that solar would solve all of it's problems about 10 or 12 years ago. They poured money into it. The greenies in the US argued that America was falling behind Spain and many others in the solar economy. Well if you look up solar and Spain, it ain't pretty. America can be glad it was leading from behind, as Obama used to say, this time.
I am very anti Green. I used to argue with greenie... (
show quote)
I haven't been looking to put it back in.
I always called them the green N**is.
son of witless wrote:
The whole modern concept of solar panels is what I am against. I am sure some egghead worked all of this out, and it does work, somewhat. The old concept was, all of the power your solar panels made was used directly by you. It supplemented the power you bought from the grid. Almost like an auxiliary heater, say a wood or coal stove supplementing your main furnace.
Now you get your power from the grid, and you sell your solar power to the grid. That means you affect all electric power users around you. The power company has to put in extra equipment to deal with a power source they can't control. They have to accept power, whether or not they need it or want it, whenever the sun shines. That is a bigger deal than it sounds.
I remember reading about places where they had a high number of solar panel customers. I think the limit they can handle is 40 %. After that it royally screws up their grid.
The whole modern concept of solar panels is what I... (
show quote)
I had solar panels installed last May. Not because of g****l w*****g but because I live in CA and our provider is SDG&E (San Diego Gas & Electric). Mt electric bill was averaging $250/mo. whereas 10 years ago it was only $75/mo. The CA PUC is a bunch of crooks in bed with the utilities which are a bunch of crooks. SDG&E doesn't produce as much power as they used to. In fact, this is the case throughout CA after Enron took them to the cleaners twenty years ago. No one is building new power plants and expanding infrastructure. Instead, they have brown-outs and black-outs during periods of high winds. Don't want to start any fires. The PG&E rate-payers are already paying for fires up north. Not directly in their rates but you know they still have to pay because the penalties levied against PG&E have to be paid somehow.
Before installing the panels my roof had to be inspected by structural engineers. The company that did my installation was Semper Solaris which is also a roofing company and has an excellent consumer and BBB rating; one of the best. I had 18 panels installed without the battery backup system because of the amount of work required to connect the battery. I would have needed to have the street dug up and the cost would have been prohibitive. As it is, my system cost just under $20,000, and with the 30% federal tax credit, the total cost came down to $14,000. My electric bill has been zero since the installation, even with the a/c usage the past couple of months. If the system continues to perform well, it will take me about 6 years to make the solar system pay for itself. And in the future, I will have free electricity. Utility rates are headed in one direction only. That is up. All new house built in CA must have solar. That makes the price of homes increase, yet we have more homeless than ever. It is estimated that 45% of the cost for a new home in CA is due to excessive and over-regulation from the state when compared to other western states.
My solar is guaranteed to perform at 95% at the end of 25 years. If it doesn't, I receive check from the solar company (But you know it won't cover the cost of the energy I have to buy from SDG&E). My system and roof are guaranteed for 25 years. They will fix leaks and take care of any glitches in power generation at no extra cost. That's why I selected Semper Solaris for installation and SUNRUN monitors the system. They will still, most likely, be in business if problems develop. I will be 93 at the end of the contract so it isn't going to make much difference to me after then if the system continues to work well or not.
You've got to do your homework and really read up on the subject before you take the plunge so you can use a reputable installer and have the system guaranteed. My house has a solar water heater panel on the roof that was installed 35 years ago. It not longer works efficiently. The electric pump used more energy than if I used a gas water heater system. So, I disconnected it and the electric water heater and installed a gas heater instead. Much less expensive.
And if worse comes to worst from a blackout, I have my RV and generator that I can use. What, Me worry? Never.
dtucker300 wrote:
I had solar panels installed last May. Not because of g****l w*****g but because I live in CA and our provider is SDG&E (San Diego Gas & Electric). Mt electric bill was averaging $250/mo. whereas 10 years ago it was only $75/mo. The CA PUC is a bunch of crooks in bed with the utilities which are a bunch of crooks. SDG&E doesn't produce as much power as they used to. In fact, this is the case throughout CA after Enron took them to the cleaners twenty years ago. No one is building new power plants and expanding infrastructure. Instead, they have brown-outs and black-outs during periods of high winds. Don't want to start any fires. The PG&E rate-payers are already paying for fires up north. Not directly in their rates but you know they still have to pay because the penalties levied against PG&E have to be paid somehow.
Before installing the panels my roof had to be inspected by structural engineers. The company that did my installation was Semper Solaris which is also a roofing company and has an excellent consumer and BBB rating; one of the best. I had 18 panels installed without the battery backup system because of the amount of work required to connect the battery. I would have needed to have the street dug up and the cost would have been prohibitive. As it is, my system cost just under $20,000, and with the 30% federal tax credit, the total cost came down to $14,000. My electric bill has been zero since the installation, even with the a/c usage the past couple of months. If the system continues to perform well, it will take me about 6 years to make the solar system pay for itself. And in the future, I will have free electricity. Utility rates are headed in one direction only. That is up. All new house built in CA must have solar. That makes the price of homes increase, yet we have more homeless than ever. It is estimated that 45% of the cost for a new home in CA is due to excessive and over-regulation from the state when compared to other western states.
My solar is guaranteed to perform at 95% at the end of 25 years. If it doesn't, I receive check from the solar company (But you know it won't cover the cost of the energy I have to buy from SDG&E). My system and roof are guaranteed for 25 years. They will fix leaks and take care of any glitches in power generation at no extra cost. That's why I selected Semper Solaris for installation and SUNRUN monitors the system. They will still, most likely, be in business if problems develop. I will be 93 at the end of the contract so it isn't going to make much difference to me after then if the system continues to work well or not.
You've got to do your homework and really read up on the subject before you take the plunge so you can use a reputable installer and have the system guaranteed. My house has a solar water heater panel on the roof that was installed 35 years ago. It not longer works efficiently. The electric pump used more energy than if I used a gas water heater system. So, I disconnected it and the electric water heater and installed a gas heater instead. Much less expensive.
And if worse comes to worst from a blackout, I have my RV and generator that I can use. What, Me worry? Never.
I had solar panels installed last May. Not becaus... (
show quote)
I assume you get power from the grid directly and sell your solar electricity to the grid. You sell more to the grid than you buy from it. If the grid goes down you are screwed. You can't buy or sell to it while it is down and you have nothing ???
Since I don't know any better, I will ask you a stupid question. You said you used to have a gas hot water heater so you have a gas line to your property. Could you have instead of going solar, put in a natural gas generator ? I don't know if the cost of gas in your area would have made that feasible considering the high cost of electricity in your location.
son of witless wrote:
I am very anti Green. I used to argue with greenies all of the time and I spent a lot of time researching places where solar was really big to find out how well it really works, minus the hype. I used to know a lot more than I do now. since the Greenies are not as active as they were, I have not kept up on it.
What I remember is, that every nation that went hog wild for solar, eventually regretted it. Spain thought that solar would solve all of it's problems about 10 or 12 years ago. They poured money into it. The greenies in the US argued that America was falling behind Spain and many others in the solar economy. Well if you look up solar and Spain, it ain't pretty. America can be glad it was leading from behind, as Obama used to say, this time.
I am very anti Green. I used to argue with greenie... (
show quote)
Germany went crazy with the solar and wind, and now they emit more CO 2 than they used to before solar because they've had to build more power plants. Not a lot of sun in Germany in the winter and you can't depend on the wind all the time. Only 3% of our energy come from renewables such as solar, wind, hydroelectric, geothermal, etc..
son of witless wrote:
I assume you get power from the grid directly and sell your solar electricity to the grid. You sell more to the grid than you buy from it. If the grid goes down you are screwed. You can't buy or sell to it while it is down and you have nothing ???
Since I don't know any better, I will ask you a stupid question. You said you used to have a gas hot water heater so you have a gas line to your property. Could you have instead of going solar, put in a natural gas generator ? I don't know if the cost of gas in your area would have made that feasible considering the high cost of electricity in your location.
I assume you get power from the grid directly and ... (
show quote)
I used to have a solar water heater but it is filled with corrosion and the pump was en electric pump with electric heating elements in the water heater. It was costing more in electricity to heat water so I had it replaced with a gas water heater about 5 years ago. Now I have a gas water heater which is less expensive. It would have cost more to replace the solar water heater panel than to put in a gas heater. I could have switched to natural gas but it would also cost too much. The real benefit of solar is the Federal Tax Credit of 30%. It goes to 26% in 2020, 22% in 2021, and is phased out by 2024(?) I think. It's a tac credit not a deduction so my tax liability will be $6000 less right off the top of the taxes I pay. This is the only way they can make solar somewhat affordable to the hoi polloi. It still is expensive. The problem in CA is the politicians. The state is controlled by the Democrats and greenies. The PUC is a rubber stamp of former energy company people. You can't ever win because when it is your turn they change the rules. I don't agree with the rebates and corporate welfare but I didn't make the rules.
Tug484 wrote:
Wow. I didn't know that.
Solar panels are about 20% efficient. That's a lot of energy and materials used to produce something with such a poor return.
son of witless wrote:
I assume you get power from the grid directly and sell your solar electricity to the grid. You sell more to the grid than you buy from it. If the grid goes down you are screwed. You can't buy or sell to it while it is down and you have nothing ???
Since I don't know any better, I will ask you a stupid question. You said you used to have a gas hot water heater so you have a gas line to your property. Could you have instead of going solar, put in a natural gas generator ? I don't know if the cost of gas in your area would have made that feasible considering the high cost of electricity in your location.
I assume you get power from the grid directly and ... (
show quote)
Currently, I produce more that I use. Many of the power companys don't invest in producing more power and are now in the business of t***smission only. SDG&E. What I get paid for the excess is a lot less than what it costs when I need it. If the grid is down I still produce electricity when the sun is out. I also have a gas generator in my RV that can power my home when needed. But since it runs on gas it is not as clean.
dtucker300 wrote:
Solar panels are about 20% efficient. That's a lot of energy and materials used to produce something with such a poor return.
Guess I don't want them again.
Things are never as good as they used to be.
People used to be proud enough to put their own name on a product.
Like ice makers in refrigerators. They used to have metal gears. Now they're plastic and need repaired over and over.
Tug484 wrote:
Guess I don't want them again.
Things are never as good as they used to be.
People used to be proud enough to put their own name on a product.
Like ice makers in refrigerators. They used to have metal gears. Now they're plastic and need repaired over and over.
Some things are better and some are worse. Technology is great when it works correctly and it sucks big time when it doesn't work, such as the PC. Refrigerators have more efficient energy use but you are right about the ice-maker gears. I bought a new refrigerator 5 years ago and it took five visits from the repairman to finally correct the problem by installing a new ice maker. No one knows how to repair anything anymore. They just replace parts/components/modules/etc.
How often does someone do a job and then has to return to fix a mistake? It happens far too often. It seems as though nothing gets done right the first time and there is less p***e in workmanship, so much so that servicers have to be called back again to fix errors. Or they don't know how to fix it the first time and need to call another so-called "expert." Heck, I can't even find store cashiers who know how to give correct change without the computer to tell them how much.
dtucker300 wrote:
Some things are better and some are worse. Technology is great when it works correctly and it sucks big time when it doesn't work, such as the PC. Refrigerators have more efficient energy use but you are right about the ice-maker gears. I bought a new refrigerator 5 years ago and it took five visits from the repairman to finally correct the problem by installing a new ice maker. No one knows how to repair anything anymore. They just replace parts/components/modules/etc.
How often does someone do a job and then has to return to fix a mistake? It happens far too often. It seems as though nothing gets done right the first time and there is less p***e in workmanship, so much so that servicers have to be called back again to fix errors. Or they don't know how to fix it the first time and need to call another so-called "expert." Heck, I can't even find store cashiers who know how to give correct change without the computer to tell them how much.
Some things are better and some are worse. Techno... (
show quote)
I know.
I had a new TV.
It would always quit working.
I'd call a repairman.
He'd get behind it and it would be back on in two seconds.
After many times of this, I decided to watch him.
He wasn't having that. He told me he had to take it to the shop.
When it got back, I looked behind it and saw a reset button.
I never had to call him again.
dtucker300 wrote:
I used to have a solar water heater but it is filled with corrosion and the pump was en electric pump with electric heating elements in the water heater. It was costing more in electricity to heat water so I had it replaced with a gas water heater about 5 years ago. Now I have a gas water heater which is less expensive. It would have cost more to replace the solar water heater panel than to put in a gas heater. I could have switched to natural gas but it would also cost too much. The real benefit of solar is the Federal Tax Credit of 30%. It goes to 26% in 2020, 22% in 2021, and is phased out by 2024(?) I think. It's a tac credit not a deduction so my tax liability will be $6000 less right off the top of the taxes I pay. This is the only way they can make solar somewhat affordable to the hoi polloi. It still is expensive. The problem in CA is the politicians. The state is controlled by the Democrats and greenies. The PUC is a rubber stamp of former energy company people. You can't ever win because when it is your turn they change the rules. I don't agree with the rebates and corporate welfare but I didn't make the rules.
I used to have a solar water heater but it is fill... (
show quote)
I believe you are making my point. As much as I h**e Green, I have nothng against people doing solar and wind on their own. It is the tax credits, rebates, and the rest of the guvment freebies that I h**e. I do not begrudge anyone for taking advantage of them because I would if it was ever to my advantage.
I have a coal stove as an auxiliary heat source to supplement my gas furnace. In years past I burned a lot of coal. In recent years Natural gas has gotten so cheap that I don't burn much coal, but I still want to burn a little as a hedge in case things ever change, and as a back up for power failures. The coal does not use electric, but the gas does.
My point is, I do not ask my neighbors to pay for my coal heat. My electric bills should not pay for somebody's solar or wind.
son of witless wrote:
I believe you are making my point. As much as I h**e Green, I have nothng against people doing solar and wind on their own. It is the tax credits, rebates, and the rest of the guvment freebies that I h**e. I do not begrudge anyone for taking advantage of them because I would if it was ever to my advantage.
I have a coal stove as an auxiliary heat source to supplement my gas furnace. In years past I burned a lot of coal. In recent years Natural gas has gotten so cheap that I don't burn much coal, but I still want to burn a little as a hedge in case things ever change, and as a back up for power failures. The coal does not use electric, but the gas does.
My point is, I do not ask my neighbors to pay for my coal heat. My electric bills should not pay for somebody's solar or wind.
I believe you are making my point. As much as I h*... (
show quote)
Quite right! We are on the same page.
dtucker300 wrote:
Quite right! We are on the same page.
Gambia: How they're doing it
With international support, Gambia has invested in the country’s first large-scale solar project. The country also embarked in 2018 on a mission to restore more than 10,000 hectares of forest, savanna, and mangroves. Gambian citizens are encouraged to use efficient cookstoves to limit emissions and have created a renewable energy account for a 10th of all energy generated by 2020. The Gambia will need international support to scale up its sustainability efforts, but the government there has shown commitment to the country’s goals. With international aid, Gambia is likely to meet them.
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