The Stock Market Winners And Losers...The American People And The Players: There are a couple of types of stock market investors, long term that's about retirement and savings, it...

woodguru

There are a couple of types of stock market investors, long term that's about retirement and savings, it tends to be in long term excellent performing large fund management pools. These funds are typically not ducked into stocks and switched when a certain amount of gains are posted, this investor is stuck for the long haul and at the mercy of what the management broker running the fund does.

Then there are players of different risk levels, the riskiest probably being day trading, and leveraging futures for either gains or losses.

The person using the market in tax deferred 401k's and retirement type accounts feels stuck because the penalties for early withdrawal seems too high. The reality is that if you feel that the market is going to take a real dump the penalty could easily be far less than would be lost when an investment account loses more than half of it's value. This savings investor is at the mercy of the market, while the brokers and the movers and shakers of wallstreet make money whether the market goes up or down. When it's going up they are shoveling profits out with a backhoe, they are out of the market when it crashes and investors lose their asses, they have their mansions and fancy cars and huge bank accounts. The money americans lose in an adjustment or crash is already in their bank accounts, it's why the market adjusts to reflect that money has already been shoveled out. It adjusts to reflect the fact that the actual real money isn't there in the big fund accounts anymore.

Lat's say a big retirement investment fund has $100 billion dollars in it, the market fund management company gets paid for managing the money and trying to make as much money as possible with it. They obviously get paid for managing the money, but how? They get paid commissions and fees for making different t***sactions with the money. The fund or money gets tied up in property or other valued assets that carry a real value. The real value gets rather hazy when it's invested in another stock portfolio because it's value is what the stocks are trading at. They look good, so does real estate as long as values are going up, but the hidden danger is what happens when values go soft. How about when values are going soft but wallstreet brokers keep selling and representing over inflated values? This is exactly what happens and is the cause of adjustments being triggered.

Wallstreet brokers represent the last prices stocks are sold at as their value, as if it has a real meaning, which it does not. So let's track a $100 billion fund. It gets invested in an array of investment vehicles like mortgage pools and other funds that have solid track records. So as the $100B is spent buying assets, fees and commissions are coming off, and they are big, actually huge. It is nothing to have perhaps $10b used to purchase a block of stock, percentages as high as 7% could come off to the seller of a fund to the buyer, who can also charge a commission or fee to the fund of several percentage points.

So tracking our original $100B, it is using $10B to purchase a block of stock with a list or trade price of say $14B, the price can actually be wh**ever the seller says it is. They pay the buyer a commission, they take a commission, and the fund manager reports that it just made a wonderful buy that turned $10B into $14B thereby reflecting an increase in value. By the time the original $100B has been spent purchasing asset vehicles that can be bought and sold, $15B could easily be used for fees, the represented value of what was purchased might be showing the investors in the retirement fund that this genius fund manager has already "made" them 10%, everyone is happy.

So now our $100B fund has a trading value of $110B, the stock is trading at a value of $110B. The fund manager makes no money when this fund just sits, it doesn't and can't grow if it isn't being traded up. So our fund manager looks for two things, a place to sell the fund at a profit that they can take a fee and commission on, and another place to park or purchase a replacement fund.

So making a sale is about showing the strong performance of this fund, having gone up ten percent. It is sold at a premium, and commissions are paid again both ways. The new company represents it has an asset worth a further inflated value, and actual money has come out of the fund to pay fees. Tracking the actual fund, it has been reduced in actual value once before, now it takes another hit. To understand where the hit comes from, it is in blocks of stock that are sold and kept by the brokers, while less actual stock is inflated in value to make it look like less shares became worth more. Most of these investors only understand the bottom line of how much they are being told what their stock is worth, not the technical reality of a shrinking asset being worth more in smoke and mirror value.

Wallstreet has been allowed to used bulls**t numbers and weirdly inflated values that mean nothing, and if you did a balance sheet accounting and tracked market funds I would be surprised if wallstreet has retained even 10% of original cash deposited in the market. Wallstreet takes so much out it doesn't even make any sense. How does a hedge fund manager, one person, make over a billion a year, and where does it come from? The question is who ends up holding the empty bag? That would be the american people with their retirement funds in the market.

son of witless

woodguru wrote:

There are a couple of types of stock market investors, long term that's about retirement and savings, it tends to be in long term excellent performing large fund management pools. These funds are typically not ducked into stocks and switched when a certain amount of gains are posted, this investor is stuck for the long haul and at the mercy of what the management broker running the fund does.

Then there are players of different risk levels, the riskiest probably being day trading, and leveraging futures for either gains or losses.

The person using the market in tax deferred 401k's and retirement type accounts feels stuck because the penalties for early withdrawal seems too high. The reality is that if you feel that the market is going to take a real dump the penalty could easily be far less than would be lost when an investment account loses more than half of it's value. This savings investor is at the mercy of the market, while the brokers and the movers and shakers of wallstreet make money whether the market goes up or down. When it's going up they are shoveling profits out with a backhoe, they are out of the market when it crashes and investors lose their asses, they have their mansions and fancy cars and huge bank accounts. The money americans lose in an adjustment or crash is already in their bank accounts, it's why the market adjusts to reflect that money has already been shoveled out. It adjusts to reflect the fact that the actual real money isn't there in the big fund accounts anymore.

Lat's say a big retirement investment fund has $100 billion dollars in it, the market fund management company gets paid for managing the money and trying to make as much money as possible with it. They obviously get paid for managing the money, but how? They get paid commissions and fees for making different t***sactions with the money. The fund or money gets tied up in property or other valued assets that carry a real value. The real value gets rather hazy when it's invested in another stock portfolio because it's value is what the stocks are trading at. They look good, so does real estate as long as values are going up, but the hidden danger is what happens when values go soft. How about when values are going soft but wallstreet brokers keep selling and representing over inflated values? This is exactly what happens and is the cause of adjustments being triggered.

Wallstreet brokers represent the last prices stocks are sold at as their value, as if it has a real meaning, which it does not. So let's track a $100 billion fund. It gets invested in an array of investment vehicles like mortgage pools and other funds that have solid track records. So as the $100B is spent buying assets, fees and commissions are coming off, and they are big, actually huge. It is nothing to have perhaps $10b used to purchase a block of stock, percentages as high as 7% could come off to the seller of a fund to the buyer, who can also charge a commission or fee to the fund of several percentage points.

So tracking our original $100B, it is using $10B to purchase a block of stock with a list or trade price of say $14B, the price can actually be wh**ever the seller says it is. They pay the buyer a commission, they take a commission, and the fund manager reports that it just made a wonderful buy that turned $10B into $14B thereby reflecting an increase in value. By the time the original $100B has been spent purchasing asset vehicles that can be bought and sold, $15B could easily be used for fees, the represented value of what was purchased might be showing the investors in the retirement fund that this genius fund manager has already "made" them 10%, everyone is happy.

So now our $100B fund has a trading value of $110B, the stock is trading at a value of $110B. The fund manager makes no money when this fund just sits, it doesn't and can't grow if it isn't being traded up. So our fund manager looks for two things, a place to sell the fund at a profit that they can take a fee and commission on, and another place to park or purchase a replacement fund.

So making a sale is about showing the strong performance of this fund, having gone up ten percent. It is sold at a premium, and commissions are paid again both ways. The new company represents it has an asset worth a further inflated value, and actual money has come out of the fund to pay fees. Tracking the actual fund, it has been reduced in actual value once before, now it takes another hit. To understand where the hit comes from, it is in blocks of stock that are sold and kept by the brokers, while less actual stock is inflated in value to make it look like less shares became worth more. Most of these investors only understand the bottom line of how much they are being told what their stock is worth, not the technical reality of a shrinking asset being worth more in smoke and mirror value.

Wallstreet has been allowed to used bulls**t numbers and weirdly inflated values that mean nothing, and if you did a balance sheet accounting and tracked market funds I would be surprised if wallstreet has retained even 10% of original cash deposited in the market. Wallstreet takes so much out it doesn't even make any sense. How does a hedge fund manager, one person, make over a billion a year, and where does it come from? The question is who ends up holding the empty bag? That would be the american people with their retirement funds in the market.

There are a couple of types of stock market invest... (show quote)

Then you stay out of the market.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

son of witless wrote:

Then you stay out of the market.

Hedge funds have to have accredited investors. Also, anyone savvy enough to invest in hedge funds knows the high inherent risk. If you have a 401K they generally allow you to talk to the person who one, either manages it or two change your allocations via the internet. If you are worried about a correction go more conservative. Move towards stock or funds in large cap companies. If you believe we are headed towards another 2008 them move your money to the money market. Won’t make much but won’t lose. Most 401K providers have a money market account attached.

son of witless

JFlorio wrote:

Hedge funds have to have accredited investors. Als... (show quote)

I stayed in the market with my 401k during the 2007-09 disaster. It was rough, but I kept buying as it went down. I kept buying all the way through 2017. At first I lost half of my money, but when the dust settled I was up 400% from the beginning.

I lived through the 87 crash. It is like a poker game. If you can stay in when everyone else is panicking you can do well. After the fact it is easy to brag. While you are going through it, life sucks.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Nice. Too many people don’t realize how similar playing poker and playing the market is. You can have most of the chips in front of you and if you don’t cash some in you haven’t made anything.

son of witless wrote:

I stayed in the market with my 401k during the 2007-09 disaster. It was rough, but I kept buying as it went down. I kept buying all the way through 2017. At first I lost half of my money, but when the dust settled I was up 400% from the beginning.

I lived through the 87 crash. It is like a poker game. If you can stay in when everyone else is panicking you can do well. After the fact it is easy to brag. While you are going through it, life sucks.

Radiance3

woodguru wrote:

There are a couple of types of stock market investors, long term that's about retirement and savings, it tends to be in long term excellent performing large fund management pools. These funds are typically not ducked into stocks and switched when a certain amount of gains are posted, this investor is stuck for the long haul and at the mercy of what the management broker running the fund does.

Then there are players of different risk levels, the riskiest probably being day trading, and leveraging futures for either gains or losses.

The person using the market in tax deferred 401k's and retirement type accounts feels stuck because the penalties for early withdrawal seems too high. The reality is that if you feel that the market is going to take a real dump the penalty could easily be far less than would be lost when an investment account loses more than half of it's value. This savings investor is at the mercy of the market, while the brokers and the movers and shakers of wallstreet make money whether the market goes up or down. When it's going up they are shoveling profits out with a backhoe, they are out of the market when it crashes and investors lose their asses, they have their mansions and fancy cars and huge bank accounts. The money americans lose in an adjustment or crash is already in their bank accounts, it's why the market adjusts to reflect that money has already been shoveled out. It adjusts to reflect the fact that the actual real money isn't there in the big fund accounts anymore.

Lat's say a big retirement investment fund has $100 billion dollars in it, the market fund management company gets paid for managing the money and trying to make as much money as possible with it. They obviously get paid for managing the money, but how? They get paid commissions and fees for making different t***sactions with the money. The fund or money gets tied up in property or other valued assets that carry a real value. The real value gets rather hazy when it's invested in another stock portfolio because it's value is what the stocks are trading at. They look good, so does real estate as long as values are going up, but the hidden danger is what happens when values go soft. How about when values are going soft but wallstreet brokers keep selling and representing over inflated values? This is exactly what happens and is the cause of adjustments being triggered.

Wallstreet brokers represent the last prices stocks are sold at as their value, as if it has a real meaning, which it does not. So let's track a $100 billion fund. It gets invested in an array of investment vehicles like mortgage pools and other funds that have solid track records. So as the $100B is spent buying assets, fees and commissions are coming off, and they are big, actually huge. It is nothing to have perhaps $10b used to purchase a block of stock, percentages as high as 7% could come off to the seller of a fund to the buyer, who can also charge a commission or fee to the fund of several percentage points.

So tracking our original $100B, it is using $10B to purchase a block of stock with a list or trade price of say $14B, the price can actually be wh**ever the seller says it is. They pay the buyer a commission, they take a commission, and the fund manager reports that it just made a wonderful buy that turned $10B into $14B thereby reflecting an increase in value. By the time the original $100B has been spent purchasing asset vehicles that can be bought and sold, $15B could easily be used for fees, the represented value of what was purchased might be showing the investors in the retirement fund that this genius fund manager has already "made" them 10%, everyone is happy.

So now our $100B fund has a trading value of $110B, the stock is trading at a value of $110B. The fund manager makes no money when this fund just sits, it doesn't and can't grow if it isn't being traded up. So our fund manager looks for two things, a place to sell the fund at a profit that they can take a fee and commission on, and another place to park or purchase a replacement fund.

So making a sale is about showing the strong performance of this fund, having gone up ten percent. It is sold at a premium, and commissions are paid again both ways. The new company represents it has an asset worth a further inflated value, and actual money has come out of the fund to pay fees. Tracking the actual fund, it has been reduced in actual value once before, now it takes another hit. To understand where the hit comes from, it is in blocks of stock that are sold and kept by the brokers, while less actual stock is inflated in value to make it look like less shares became worth more. Most of these investors only understand the bottom line of how much they are being told what their stock is worth, not the technical reality of a shrinking asset being worth more in smoke and mirror value.

Wallstreet has been allowed to used bulls**t numbers and weirdly inflated values that mean nothing, and if you did a balance sheet accounting and tracked market funds I would be surprised if wallstreet has retained even 10% of original cash deposited in the market. Wallstreet takes so much out it doesn't even make any sense. How does a hedge fund manager, one person, make over a billion a year, and where does it come from? The question is who ends up holding the empty bag? That would be the american people with their retirement funds in the market.

There are a couple of types of stock market invest... (show quote)

===============
Woody, your presentation is very deceptive, and could scare many investors.
For employment, here are the facts of investing on the 401k, and the Roth IRA. These investments are allowed in private enterprise.
The 401k is a long-term investment with a specified amount taken from your salary every month.
This is tax deferred That means the member is taxed when you retire and receive, the annual distribution of your fund. Overall, if you hold your account for 25 years or more, your investment could accumulate to 250% or more.
I suggest not to put your stocks on very aggressive funds, but moderate only. Also diversify your investments. Include stocks, bonds, and savings.

The ups and downs of the stocks always end up in a positive if done on a long-term basis. E.g. If your contribution for 25 years or more $100,000 to your account, that amount could end up to $250,000 or more. Upon retirement at 66 years or later, the fund is calculated how much the member will receive every year. The fund left continue to grow, after your annual distribution. This distribution is then taxed according to the prevailing tax rate

Then there is the 403b. This fund is available for colleges, universities, or public schools. Sometimes, employer contribute a certain percent up to 50% to your retirement account. It is also tax deferred, the amount contributed monthly is not tax, but taxed during the annual distribution upon retirement.

For either 401k or 403b, when a member withdraws the fund before retirement, that amount is fully taxable. That is why it is not advisable to withdraw before retirement because your tax bracket goes up due to the addition to your current income. 401k is always a long-term investment withdrawn upon retirement.
Then there is the Roth IRA account. The amount is taxed every month when you invest. The maximum annual investment allowed when I retired few years ago was $5,000. The fund accumulates and is tax free when you withdraw including the growth of the fund. This is a good investment because the growth is tax free.

There are two types of investment. The short term and the long-term investment. The short term are those assets held for 1 year and less. The long term as those held 1 year or more.
The short-term gains are taxed according to the prevailing tax rate of the investor.
The long-term capital gains are taxed lower, according to the long-term capital gain. In 2018, long term gains are taxed 0%, 15%, and 20%. Depending upon the amount of gain.
Note: Fund managers holding your 401K or 403b like TIAA-CREF, Fidelity, or others, charge certain percent about 3.5% or more. They manage those funds so it is appropriate that they earn certain amount. That is their business.
How much do you think is charge to your 401k by the fund manager?
Check your annual summary report.
1. Go to your plan's summary annual report. Find the “basic financial statement” section.
2. Subtract “benefits paid” from “total plan expenses.”
3. Divide that number by the total value of the plan.
4. This number is your plan's administrative cost.
For other types of investments, like real estate it has similar tax according to the age of the assets held. Gains held for less than a year is taxed on the regular tax rate. Gains for assets held more than 1 year the tax rate applied is 0%, 15%, or 20%, that is if the t***saction happened in 2018. Rates could change for short term or long term in the future.
The riskiest types of investments are the day stock traders. These investors are already well experienced and they know how to control during the volatile markets. Over all investments is the way to go if you want to financially advance. Stocks mostly grow on a long term basis. Most multi-millionaires and billionaires are investors either in stocks of real estates.
During the 80’s and earlier, interest rates were between 15% to 21%. But the prices of homes were extremely low compared to the present. Our present interest rates could be 3.% to 3.5% of you hold mortgage for 15 years or less. It gets higher if held 30 years or more. Those who bought real estate for investment during the 80’s has gained so much up to 300% to 400%. Homes bought for $250,000 at that time could now value to $1 million or more. That is if your investment is in a good location. Advantage of homes investments is that all expenses related to the operating the home invested, is tax deductible. That is true until today. Any expenses incurred to operate your business is deductible from the income of your business.

Note: I have my 403b at present invested at TIAA-CREF. That investment came from the university system account during my employment. .

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Radiance3 wrote:

===============
Woody, your presentation is very deceptive, and could scare many investors.
For employment, here are the facts of investing on the 401k, and the Roth IRA. These investments are allowed in private enterprise.
The 401k is a long-term investment with a specified amount taken from your salary every month.
This is tax deferred That means the member is taxed when you retire and receive, the annual distribution of your fund. Overall, if you hold your account for 25 years or more, your investment could accumulate to 250% or more.
I suggest not to put your stocks on very aggressive funds, but moderate only. Also diversify your investments. Include stocks, bonds, and savings.

The ups and downs of the stocks always end up in a positive if done on a long-term basis. E.g. If your contribution for 25 years or more $100,000 to your account, that amount could end up to $250,000 or more. Upon retirement at 66 years or later, the fund is calculated how much the member will receive every year. The fund left continue to grow, after your annual distribution. This distribution is then taxed according to the prevailing tax rate

Then there is the 403b. This fund is available for colleges, universities, or public schools. Sometimes, employer contribute a certain percent up to 50% to your retirement account. It is also tax deferred, the amount contributed monthly is not tax, but taxed during the annual distribution upon retirement.

For either 401k or 403b, when a member withdraws the fund before retirement, that amount is fully taxable. That is why it is not advisable to withdraw before retirement because your tax bracket goes up due to the addition to your current income. 401k is always a long-term investment withdrawn upon retirement.
Then there is the Roth IRA account. The amount is taxed every month when you invest. The maximum annual investment allowed when I retired few years ago was $5,000. The fund accumulates and is tax free when you withdraw including the growth of the fund. This is a good investment because the growth is tax free.

There are two types of investment. The short term and the long-term investment. The short term are those assets held for 1 year and less. The long term as those held 1 year or more.
The short-term gains are taxed according to the prevailing tax rate of the investor.
The long-term capital gains are taxed lower, according to the long-term capital gain. In 2018, long term gains are taxed 0%, 15%, and 20%. Depending upon the amount of gain.
Note: Fund managers holding your 401K or 403b like TIAA-CREF, Fidelity, or others, charge certain percent about 3.5% or more. They manage those funds so it is appropriate that they earn certain amount. That is their business.
How much do you think is charge to your 401k by the fund manager?
Check your annual summary report.
1. Go to your plan's summary annual report. Find the “basic financial statement” section.
2. Subtract “benefits paid” from “total plan expenses.”
3. Divide that number by the total value of the plan.
4. This number is your plan's administrative cost.
For other types of investments, like real estate it has similar tax according to the age of the assets held. Gains held for less than a year is taxed on the regular tax rate. Gains for assets held more than 1 year the tax rate applied is 0%, 15%, or 20%, that is if the t***saction happened in 2018. Rates could change for short term or long term in the future.
The riskiest types of investments are the day stock traders. These investors are already well experienced and they know how to control during the volatile markets. Over all investments is the way to go if you want to financially advance. Stocks mostly grow on a long term basis. Most multi-millionaires and billionaires are investors either in stocks of real estates.
During the 80’s and earlier, interest rates were between 15% to 21%. But the prices of homes were extremely low compared to the present. Our present interest rates could be 3.% to 3.5% of you hold mortgage for 15 years or less. It gets higher if held 30 years or more. Those who bought real estate for investment during the 80’s has gained so much up to 300% to 400%. Homes bought for $250,000 at that time could now value to $1 million or more. That is if your investment is in a good location. Advantage of homes investments is that all expenses related to the operating the home invested, is tax deductible. That is true until today. Any expenses incurred to operate your business is deductible from the income of your business.

Note: I have my 403b at present invested at TIAA-CREF. That investment came from the university system account during my employment. .

=============== br I b Woody, your presentation ... (show quote)

The Roth IRA contribution and Traditional IRA is up to $6,000/year and an additional$1,000?
/yr (catch up) if you are over 50.

Radiance3

JFlorio wrote:

The Roth IRA contribution and Traditional IRA is up to $6,000/year and an additional$1,000?
/yr (catch up) if you are over 50.

==========
I believe so. I think it has increased $1,000 since I retired. I did participate in Roth IRA, but stopped after 2 years. Maximized my 403b instead to reduce my tax burden. But now, my tax rate has even increased, when other retirement funds are all coming in, aside from the 403b. They also maximize distribution as age gets older. We could not escape from taxes. It comes sooner or later.

Roth IRA is the best because the gains are tax free. Withdrawable after age 59.5, or earlier when disabled.

I would encourage people to participate Roth IRA. Long term moderate investment is a good one. Thank you.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Radiance3 wrote:

========== br I I believe so. I think it has incr... (show quote)

Actually I have invested (overfunded life Insurance right up to the Modified Endowment Limit). Getting great returns plus protection for my family. Life Insurance, as you know if withdrawn properly is tax free. Plus there is no penalty for taking out before 59 1/2 and no RMD at 70 1/2.

Radiance3

JFlorio wrote:

Hedge funds have to have accredited investors. Als... (show quote)

==========
That is true. In 401k, or 403b, the funds are t***sferable within various types of funds provided. Manage it yourself, and move to more secure bonds or savings account when the impending stock funds may be losing.

Radiance3

JFlorio wrote:

Actually I have invested (overfunded life Insurance right up to the Modified Endowment Limit). Getting great returns plus protection for my family. Life Insurance, as you know if withdrawn properly is tax free. Plus there is no penalty for taking out before 59 1/2 and no RMD at 70 1/2.

=========
I am glad you did that. You protected your family and yourself.

However, the ordinary life insurance is also not taxed upon the beneficiary when the insured dies. But if you are single, I advise not to engage in life insurance. No one will inherit your account when you die. In ordinary life insurance, you do not benefit from it if you are single. And when you stop, you don't get back the money put to it.

Currently, if you are in a high tax bracket, I think the best safe investment is municipal bonds. It is safe, and gains are tax free.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Radiance3 wrote:

=========
I am glad you did that. You protect your family. Life insurance is not taxed when withdrawn. But if you are single, I advice not to engage in life insurance. No one will inherit your account when you die. In ordinary life insurance, you do not benefit from it if you are single. And when you stop, you don't get back the money put to it.

Currently, if you are in a high tax bracket, I the best investment is municipal bonds. It is safe, and gains are tax free.

Actually Radiance life Insurance has changed a lot. My favorite company actually has an accelerated benefits rider and lifetime payment rider included free. Cash in the policy grows tax deferred and comes out tax free. If you get a critical illness or chronic illness you can actually get to the death benefit to help pay bills or use if for wh**ever. I just had a client who had cancer. He received over $300,000 from his policy tax free. Now of course his policy is surrendered but he had only put in $60,000 at the time. Not a bad deal. Sure took the pressure off his shoulders why he was convalescing.
Bonds have their own problems tied to interest rates and the interest on a muni is added in when figuring provincial income . The formula that determines the percentage of your S.S. income that is included in your Federal Tax return.

Radiance3

son of witless wrote:

I stayed in the market with my 401k during the 2007-09 disaster. It was rough, but I kept buying as it went down. I kept buying all the way through 2017. At first I lost half of my money, but when the dust settled I was up 400% from the beginning.

I lived through the 87 crash. It is like a poker game. If you can stay in when everyone else is panicking you can do well. After the fact it is easy to brag. While you are going through it, life sucks.

============
I think you did well holding the 401k thru the rough times. The long term, it ends up good.

Radiance3

JFlorio wrote:

Actually Radiance life Insurance has changed a lot... (show quote)

============
I think your insurance was a good one. I did not encounter that before.

I am getting older and so just relax for now, and lay off worries. My tax bracket is getting higher. While the socialist democrats want to tax us more when they win. Could you imagine, we worked and saved all the years of our lives, and now they promised to give them away our taxes all free to buy the v**es of the people. Wake up America.

son of witless

JFlorio wrote:

Nice. Too many people don’t realize how similar playing poker and playing the market is. You can have most of the chips in front of you and if you don’t cash some in you haven’t made anything.

The whole point is not to have to cash out when everything is crashing. I was fortunate in being able to stay in through 2007-09. After that it was like printing money. From the low in March of 2009 to maybe the end of 2016 it was exactly like printing money.

Long term really is long term. If you do not have money out side of the market, either income or assets that will allow you to not touch the money in the market for 3 or 4 years, then you shouldn't be in there. Short term you can get murdered.

You are right about knowing when to cash out. One never knows where the top is. I have already cashed out and then had the market go up a lot. The smart thing is to always take at least a little off the top when you are up. If it then goes up you still have some in there running. If it goes down you have locked in your profit.