debeda

Your thought process is..........interesting

truthiness

I won't fight you on that one---too true.

truthiness

Trade imbalance with any country is not a good thing. But tariffs are not the markets' ways of solving the problem. In fact, they just exacerbate the problem.

truthiness

I will assume that is a compliment and thank you. for it.
I am not a socialist; I like markets and market economies--especially linked to the American culture and polity. But it is clear that the market economy is not omniscent and that it creates problems that it cannot solve.
Consider the plight of the small family farmer of yesteryear. He is gone because of the efficiency (money-making ability) of large farming and Big Ag that require less people to run them than does the small family farm population and with greater efficiencies. Where do those small farm people, now "excess", go?
Last week we heard the report that 30+ million Americans will lose their jobs in the near future generations due to robotics and artificial intelligence. Where do those people go? There are not an infinite supply of McDonalds hamburgers to flip. Some answer "train them." But train them for what?--the demand for jobs is decreasing not increasing.

So the market is not all knowing. It creates problems that it cannot solve. It does solve the efficiency problem, but it creates a human-society-culture problem that it cannot solve.

Who can solve it? Not the industrial complex because they are on the side of efficiency and the profits it garners. Not unions because there aren't even enough jobs to protect even if the government would allow them to. We are left with government, a very inefficent process at best. What kind of government? When the Soviet government took over the planning and control of production--well, we see how that went. Oligarchies end up in the same mess.

So we are left with markets that need to do what they do best cooperating with a freedom-based government like ours that advocates for the human-societal problems. The problem is that when some short-sighted people see the word "government," connected with such a cooperating coexistence of induxtry and government, they reflexively call it socialism and label it anti-market, anti-freedom, un-American, the precursor to c*******m.

So, as I see it, the only solution is thoughtful cooperation of industry and government, and in my opinion tariffs create more problems by limiting legitimate market freedom thereby decreasing production which is then counteracted with subsidies that come from taxes. And we are back to Trump giving $16B to farmers
which is just pure socialism and is not cooperation because tariffs are not solving the market problem even in the short term.

emarine

Its 32 billion now... trump had to cover his ass twice to keep our soy farms afloat... Brazil now supplies China with a good product at less cost... our soy guys are screwed as well as taxpayers ... stable genius at work making us great again...

debeda

As far as replacing jobs, we need to focus on bringing manufacturing jobs back, especially for the building of robotics and other automated systems. As far as tariffs, are you aware the trade/tariff balance has been much the same since WWII? When Europe and Japan were decimated, and China and a good portion of the rest of Asian countries were still basically third world countries. Do you think it is correct that the United states citizens should subsidize the rest of the world?

truthiness

As far as replacing jobs, we need to focus on bringing manufacturing jobs back, especially for the building of robotics and other automated systems. As far as tariffs, are you aware the trade/tariff balance has been much the same since WWII? When Europe and Japan were decimated, and China and a good portion of the rest of Asian countries were still basically third world countries. Do you think it is correct that the United states citizens should subsidize the rest of the world?[/quote]
...

To answer your question about subsidizing the world--immediate post-war was one thing, but today, no.
Let's look at a CEO deciding he can make money in China but he has to give up patents and commercial secrets to do so. He makes a choice of profits against secrets--how can he blame China for that?
If China is actually stealing those techniques, that is different. I think I have heard that we have never lost a case at the tribunal that adjudicates those cases. But that is costly and time-consuming. The answer is to find a way to outcompete China--it is the market way of winning.
But is Trump getting anything from the Chinese beside the usual promises that have no meaning? I don't know. He has had more than two years. And meanwhile American farmers are losing a hard-won market and on top of that you and I are paying the farmers for their current loss via our taxes. Who will pay you and me back?

Bringing manufacturing jobs back and investing in automated systems--great ideas. Who does the investing so those things can happen? The big corporations, of course. But what have they done with the money that they reaped from Trump's tax reduction? Trump told us that companies would reinvest that money back into their businesses.
If you remember, the companies told us that they would not invest and they did not. They bought back their own stock (just as they said they would)and are sitting on jillions. Why are they not investing? I don't know. Maybe the lack of a government strategy and policy for business causes them to hold back. Where are those policies developed? At the top of government. Who is at the top? A guy who claims to be a great negotiator who threatens with tariffs.

debeda

...

To answer your question about subsidizing the world--immediate post-war was one thing, but today, no.
Let's look at a CEO deciding he can make money in China but he has to give up patents and commercial secrets to do so. He makes a choice of profits against secrets--how can he blame China for that?
If China is actually stealing those techniques, that is different. I think I have heard that we have never lost a case at the tribunal that adjudicates those cases. But that is costly and time-consuming. The answer is to find a way to outcompete China--it is the market way of winning.
But is Trump getting anything from the Chinese beside the usual promises that have no meaning? I don't know. He has had more than two years. And meanwhile American farmers are losing a hard-won market and on top of that you and I are paying the farmers for their current loss via our taxes. Who will pay you and me back?

Bringing manufacturing jobs back and investing in automated systems--great ideas. Who does the investing so those things can happen? The big corporations, of course. But what have they done with the money that they reaped from Trump's tax reduction? Trump told us that companies would reinvest that money back into their businesses.
If you remember, the companies told us that they would not invest and they did not. They bought back their own stock (just as they said they would)and are sitting on jillions. Why are they not investing? I don't know. Maybe the lack of a government strategy and policy for business causes them to hold back. Where are those policies developed? At the top of government. Who is at the top? A guy who claims to be a great negotiator who threatens with tariffs.[/quote]

I tried to explain what was going on, but you dont seem to understand. He is more negotiating by bringing equal tariffs than "threatening". Off to work, out of time to post.

America 1 Loc: South Miami

This may give you a little better insight:
US-China Trade War Explained -Who Needs Who?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxN12jzHrqI
1,023,886 views

truthiness

Thank you.