Anyone have an idea.
Jun 11, 2019 11:12:26 #
Something I've been attempting to get my mind around is the accusation the Democratic party is anti-Semitic. However, considering that Nadler, Shiff, Schumer, and others are Jews, how can that be?
Unless, of course, that charge is being put forth by Democrats themselves. If Democrats are making the claim what's the payoff. Unless I've missed it, I haven't heard or read of any pushback against the charge.
The Jews are usually the first to point out anti-Semitism if they feel its presence, yet no pushback by the Jewish members of the party. So what's goin' on. What's missing?
Unless, of course, that charge is being put forth by Democrats themselves. If Democrats are making the claim what's the payoff. Unless I've missed it, I haven't heard or read of any pushback against the charge.
The Jews are usually the first to point out anti-Semitism if they feel its presence, yet no pushback by the Jewish members of the party. So what's goin' on. What's missing?
Jun 11, 2019 11:39:55 #
Boo_Boo
Loc: Jellystone
Richard Rowland wrote:
Something I've been attempting to get my mind arou... (show quote)
As usual you are missing the back story. I suggest that you look into the Yemen war resolution, S.J.Res.54. Democrats are in a pickle, V**e down the amendment amid charges that their party is coddling anti-Semites, or approve it and k**l a hard-fought resolution aimed at ending American involvement in Saudi Arabia’s war. At the heart of the bill is US does not have "boots on the ground" and is offering noncombat technical assistance to Saudi Arabia, an ally. Democrats are opposed to this support, offering that Yemen is facing famine due to the ongoing conflict. The start of the issue was Arab Spring uprising that forced its longtime authoritarian president, Ali Abdullah Saleh, to hand over power to his deputy, Abdrabbuh Mansour Hadi, in 2011. If the US supports Yemen, then by default they support Iran who has the goal of destroying Israel.
Jun 11, 2019 12:13:42 #
no propaganda please
Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun
Pennylynn wrote:
As usual you are missing the back story. I sugges... (show quote)
Thanks for attempting to set him straight. Unfortunately, it will probably fall on deaf ears.
Jun 11, 2019 12:38:13 #
Boo_Boo
Loc: Jellystone
no propaganda please wrote:
Thanks for attempting to set him straight. Unfortunately, it will probably fall on deaf ears.
You are probably right. He is a "flat" thinker. He made himself clear in another post when he said "I listen to both sides and dismiss what doesn't fit with my philosophy." When he finds something that makes him feel superior or promotes his world view, he stops.... no amount of facts will ever change his mind. This my friend, I call voluntary ignorance. It is not that he can not learn, he refuses to learn.
Jun 11, 2019 12:39:31 #
bggamers
Loc: georgia
no propaganda please wrote:
Thanks for attempting to set him straight. Unfortunately, it will probably fall on deaf ears.
don't be judgemental he asked an honest question and received an honest answer
Jun 11, 2019 12:45:39 #
lpnmajor
Loc: Arkansas
Richard Rowland wrote:
Something I've been attempting to get my mind arou... (show quote)
Think back to your childhood and you'll find a clue about how this BS works. You'll remember this I'm sure; first kid "you stink!", second kid "no, YOU stink!", first kid " you stink more worser! ", second kid.................
It's the same infantile business.
Jun 11, 2019 12:51:49 #
Self-Hating Jews
By Jordie Gerson
There are some people it’s hard to argue with and win: your mother, Cubs fans, and people who accuse you of self-hatred. The last, of course, is an intractably loaded allegation–especially for Jews, for whom debates about allegiance to the Jewish people or the State of Israel hold profound political and personal implications. These days, when debaters pull the self-hatred card in debates over Middle East politics or Jewish continuity, the term takes over the argument, virtually rendering all retorts empty. Invariably, the more you protest, the more you indict yourself.
The Roots of the Term “Self-Hatred”
Today, accusations of Jewish self-hatred are most commonly levied in discussions of Israel and Z*****m. Interestingly, the modern concept of Jewish self-hatred actually has its roots in early debates about political Z*****m, where the groundwork for its use was laid by Theodor Herzl, founder of modern Z*****m.
In his seminal 1896 book The Jewish State, Herzl criticized enemies of his plan to create a Jewish state in Palestine, calling them “disguised anti-Semites of Jewish origin.” A mere two years later, in 1898, Karl Straus — an opponent of Z*****m — turned the term back on its creator, suggesting that, like traditional anti-Semites, Herzl was preoccupied with Jewish difference, and wanted only to remove Jews from Europe.
However, it wasn’t until 1930, with the publication of Theodore Lessing’s book Juedischer Selbsthass, t***slated as “Jewish Self-Hatred,” that the precise term came into vogue. In it, Lessing, a German Jewish philosopher and newly minted Z*****t, slung the term “self-hating Jew” at academics opposed to Z*****m.
For Lessing, who had years before converted to Christianity and then returned to Judaism, discovering anti-assimilationist Z*****t literature was a turning point, which ultimately led him to write this book urging Jews to repudiate assimilation and embrace their Jewish roots. He took aim at German Jews who had chosen to distance themselves from Judaism, but he also believed that self-hatred was unfortunately equal opportunity, and could be found in any minority group discriminated against by the majority.
Self-Loathing in America
The term “self-hatred” was popularized in the United States in the 1940s, when it first appeared in an essay written by psychologist Kurt Lewin “Self-Hatred among Jews” in Contemporary Jewish Record, in 1941. The essay was more widely distributed when it was published with a collection of Lewin’s other essays in his book, Resolving Social Conflicts, in 1948. Lewin, a German Jew who immigrated to the US in 1932, explained Jewish self-hatred as a phenomenon in which Jews, regarded as a minority or “other” by the host societies they lived in, resented and distanced themselves from all things Jewish. In other words, Lewin claimed, Jewish self-hatred occurs when society marginalizes Jews, who then internalize the sense of marginalization.
More recently, Professor Sander Gilman, an American cultural historian and the author of Jewish Self-Hatred, (1986), has similarly noted that Jewish self-hatred occurs in the spaces between “how Jews see the dominant society seeing them, and how they project their anxiety about this manner of being seen onto other Jews as a means of externalizing their own status anxiety.”
Labeling As a Weapon
The term “Self-Hating Jew” has been leveled at numerous Jewish figures over the last 100 years, most often condemning the actions or attitudes of those who hold offensive political agendas or whose critiques of Judaism pose a threat to the community. Among the most notable is Jewish pornographer and publisher Sam Roth, whose 1930 anti-Semitic screed Jews Must Live was so vitriolic that it was quoted at N**i rallies. In it, Roth claimed that Jews were lazy, greedy parasites who preyed on the host cultures in which they lived.
Less extreme but just as controversial have been portrayals of American Jews by authors like Philip Roth (Portnoy’s Complaint, 1969), Henry Roth (Call it Sleep, 1934), and I.J. Singer (The Family Carnovsky, 1943), all of whom have been criticized for perpetuating and reiterating anti-Semitic stereotypes in their novels. Philip Roth’s Alexander Portnoy, critics suggested, reinforced claims that Jewish men were sexually d*****t and inclined to prey on gentile women, while Henry Roth’s David Schearl was portrayed as having an Oedipus complex and living in a world of tremendous poverty and filth. Singer was labeled self-hating for creating a father character who was imagined by his son as both hypersexual and threatening, which led, in turn, to a Jewish son with an Oedipus complex.
Accusations of Jewish self-hatred are also common in contemporary debates about Israel. Jews who have struggled with, challenged, or questioned Israeli military or government actions or policies have often been labeled self-hating. Academics and politicians as diverse as Noam Chomsky, Michael Lerner, and Tony Judt have been called self-h**ers for criticizing Israeli policies.
Dealing with Accusations
A pointed example of how many Jews have dealt with the self-hatred label may be found in playwright Tony Kushner’s response to accusations that his play Caroline or Change was self-loathing. In the central conflict of the play, Noah Gellman, the son of the Jewish family that employs Caroline, an African-American housekeeper, is told that when and if he leaves change in the pockets of his clothing, it will be given to Caroline. Hedy Weiss, theater critic for the Chicago Sun Times, decried the play, and its implications, as anti-Semitic, perpetuating stereotypes about Jews, money and r****m. Kushner’s response was swift, and typical of those who have been similarly condemned:
In every religious or ethnic group, one finds irascible people who arrogate unto themselves the job of policing who is and who isn’t a good and loyal member of the community. Such people rarely contribute anything to the community other than pain, and always fail to understand that it is the heterogeneity of any community of people that gives it life. I am immensely proud of being Jewish…Nothing makes me prouder than hearing, as I often do, that my work is identified as Jewish-American literature. My anger at this critic and her editors for accusing me of hatred for the Jewish people — for my people — exceeds my abilities to express it.
The Legacy of Self-Hatred
Unsurprisingly, the legitimacy of the term remains controversial. Some scholars have claimed that by labeling another Jew self-hating, the accuser is claiming his or her own Judaism as normative — and implying that the Judaism of the accused is flawed or incorrect, based on a metric of the accuser’s own stances, religious beliefs, or political opinions.
By arguing with the label, then, the accused is rejecting what has been defined as normative Judaism. The term “self-hating” thus places the person or object labeled outside the boundaries of the discourse–and outside the boundaries of the community.
Of course, not everything is relative. Sam Roth and those like him might be fairly characterized as self-loathing: that is, Jews who not only feel shame about their roots, but embrace or promote anti-Semitic attitudes, rhetoric, and stereotypes in public forums. The trouble is in distinguishing between what are legitimately anti-Semitic stereotypes, and what are merely warring political perspectives.
By Jordie Gerson
There are some people it’s hard to argue with and win: your mother, Cubs fans, and people who accuse you of self-hatred. The last, of course, is an intractably loaded allegation–especially for Jews, for whom debates about allegiance to the Jewish people or the State of Israel hold profound political and personal implications. These days, when debaters pull the self-hatred card in debates over Middle East politics or Jewish continuity, the term takes over the argument, virtually rendering all retorts empty. Invariably, the more you protest, the more you indict yourself.
The Roots of the Term “Self-Hatred”
Today, accusations of Jewish self-hatred are most commonly levied in discussions of Israel and Z*****m. Interestingly, the modern concept of Jewish self-hatred actually has its roots in early debates about political Z*****m, where the groundwork for its use was laid by Theodor Herzl, founder of modern Z*****m.
In his seminal 1896 book The Jewish State, Herzl criticized enemies of his plan to create a Jewish state in Palestine, calling them “disguised anti-Semites of Jewish origin.” A mere two years later, in 1898, Karl Straus — an opponent of Z*****m — turned the term back on its creator, suggesting that, like traditional anti-Semites, Herzl was preoccupied with Jewish difference, and wanted only to remove Jews from Europe.
However, it wasn’t until 1930, with the publication of Theodore Lessing’s book Juedischer Selbsthass, t***slated as “Jewish Self-Hatred,” that the precise term came into vogue. In it, Lessing, a German Jewish philosopher and newly minted Z*****t, slung the term “self-hating Jew” at academics opposed to Z*****m.
For Lessing, who had years before converted to Christianity and then returned to Judaism, discovering anti-assimilationist Z*****t literature was a turning point, which ultimately led him to write this book urging Jews to repudiate assimilation and embrace their Jewish roots. He took aim at German Jews who had chosen to distance themselves from Judaism, but he also believed that self-hatred was unfortunately equal opportunity, and could be found in any minority group discriminated against by the majority.
Self-Loathing in America
The term “self-hatred” was popularized in the United States in the 1940s, when it first appeared in an essay written by psychologist Kurt Lewin “Self-Hatred among Jews” in Contemporary Jewish Record, in 1941. The essay was more widely distributed when it was published with a collection of Lewin’s other essays in his book, Resolving Social Conflicts, in 1948. Lewin, a German Jew who immigrated to the US in 1932, explained Jewish self-hatred as a phenomenon in which Jews, regarded as a minority or “other” by the host societies they lived in, resented and distanced themselves from all things Jewish. In other words, Lewin claimed, Jewish self-hatred occurs when society marginalizes Jews, who then internalize the sense of marginalization.
More recently, Professor Sander Gilman, an American cultural historian and the author of Jewish Self-Hatred, (1986), has similarly noted that Jewish self-hatred occurs in the spaces between “how Jews see the dominant society seeing them, and how they project their anxiety about this manner of being seen onto other Jews as a means of externalizing their own status anxiety.”
Labeling As a Weapon
The term “Self-Hating Jew” has been leveled at numerous Jewish figures over the last 100 years, most often condemning the actions or attitudes of those who hold offensive political agendas or whose critiques of Judaism pose a threat to the community. Among the most notable is Jewish pornographer and publisher Sam Roth, whose 1930 anti-Semitic screed Jews Must Live was so vitriolic that it was quoted at N**i rallies. In it, Roth claimed that Jews were lazy, greedy parasites who preyed on the host cultures in which they lived.
Less extreme but just as controversial have been portrayals of American Jews by authors like Philip Roth (Portnoy’s Complaint, 1969), Henry Roth (Call it Sleep, 1934), and I.J. Singer (The Family Carnovsky, 1943), all of whom have been criticized for perpetuating and reiterating anti-Semitic stereotypes in their novels. Philip Roth’s Alexander Portnoy, critics suggested, reinforced claims that Jewish men were sexually d*****t and inclined to prey on gentile women, while Henry Roth’s David Schearl was portrayed as having an Oedipus complex and living in a world of tremendous poverty and filth. Singer was labeled self-hating for creating a father character who was imagined by his son as both hypersexual and threatening, which led, in turn, to a Jewish son with an Oedipus complex.
Accusations of Jewish self-hatred are also common in contemporary debates about Israel. Jews who have struggled with, challenged, or questioned Israeli military or government actions or policies have often been labeled self-hating. Academics and politicians as diverse as Noam Chomsky, Michael Lerner, and Tony Judt have been called self-h**ers for criticizing Israeli policies.
Dealing with Accusations
A pointed example of how many Jews have dealt with the self-hatred label may be found in playwright Tony Kushner’s response to accusations that his play Caroline or Change was self-loathing. In the central conflict of the play, Noah Gellman, the son of the Jewish family that employs Caroline, an African-American housekeeper, is told that when and if he leaves change in the pockets of his clothing, it will be given to Caroline. Hedy Weiss, theater critic for the Chicago Sun Times, decried the play, and its implications, as anti-Semitic, perpetuating stereotypes about Jews, money and r****m. Kushner’s response was swift, and typical of those who have been similarly condemned:
In every religious or ethnic group, one finds irascible people who arrogate unto themselves the job of policing who is and who isn’t a good and loyal member of the community. Such people rarely contribute anything to the community other than pain, and always fail to understand that it is the heterogeneity of any community of people that gives it life. I am immensely proud of being Jewish…Nothing makes me prouder than hearing, as I often do, that my work is identified as Jewish-American literature. My anger at this critic and her editors for accusing me of hatred for the Jewish people — for my people — exceeds my abilities to express it.
The Legacy of Self-Hatred
Unsurprisingly, the legitimacy of the term remains controversial. Some scholars have claimed that by labeling another Jew self-hating, the accuser is claiming his or her own Judaism as normative — and implying that the Judaism of the accused is flawed or incorrect, based on a metric of the accuser’s own stances, religious beliefs, or political opinions.
By arguing with the label, then, the accused is rejecting what has been defined as normative Judaism. The term “self-hating” thus places the person or object labeled outside the boundaries of the discourse–and outside the boundaries of the community.
Of course, not everything is relative. Sam Roth and those like him might be fairly characterized as self-loathing: that is, Jews who not only feel shame about their roots, but embrace or promote anti-Semitic attitudes, rhetoric, and stereotypes in public forums. The trouble is in distinguishing between what are legitimately anti-Semitic stereotypes, and what are merely warring political perspectives.
Jun 11, 2019 14:54:05 #
Pennylynn wrote:
You are probably right. He is a "flat" thinker. He made himself clear in another post when he said "I listen to both sides and dismiss what doesn't fit with my philosophy." When he finds something that makes him feel superior or promotes his world view, he stops.... no amount of facts will ever change his mind. This my friend, I call voluntary ignorance. It is not that he can not learn, he refuses to learn.
Perhaps I should have also pointed out when indicating I dismiss what doesn't suit my philosophy that its difficult to determine, when bombarded with a deluge of information both pro and con, on a given subject that, its ones own particular gut feelings (philosophy) based on what is already known that rules.
Perhaps you could explain why you think your comments and answers are the correct ones when taking issue with material perused, and posted by others.
You may take an in-depth research approach, still, you're left with perusing the comments and material provided by others. So then, you also, are deciding what to run with based on your senses. Call it what you will, it's still a personal judgment call. Of course, if you have a crystal ball.....
Jun 11, 2019 15:07:50 #
no propaganda please wrote:
Thanks for attempting to set him straight. Unfortunately, it will probably fall on deaf ears.
" Thanks for attempting to set him straight" Don't ya mean, thanks for informing you? If you're so enlightened on the subject, why didn't you set me straight?
Jun 11, 2019 15:38:19 #
Boo_Boo
Loc: Jellystone
Richard Rowland wrote:
Perhaps I should have also pointed out when indica... (show quote)
I offer my comments, not as the end all t***h, but as researched perspectives. I deal best with discussions, meaning I present my comment and expect others to present their opinions. When I am wrong, that is proven wrong, I do not have a problem with saying so and congratulating the individual for presenting facts. I learned from my Poppa that there are few truly right answers and those that are, are mathematical. One can not change the "feelings" of others nor their opinions. The best one can do is provide facts (meaning proven) and hope the other individual is intelligent to take the lead and prove you wrong or accept the new facts and modify their "feelings" or opinions. Change is difficult for individuals who can not entertain the idea that they may possibly be wrong. And change is impossible for those who dismiss information or ideas that do not fit their individual philosophies. Ergo, I have no drive to change your mind. I present my comments, not necessarily to you but rather for information that others will consider.
Crystal balls... do you think me a primitive?
Jun 11, 2019 17:00:21 #
no propaganda please
Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun
Pennylynn wrote:
As usual you are missing the back story. I sugges... (show quote)
I guess I just don't understand why so many people h**e religious Jews, even a large numbers of non religious Jews do so. While I am not Jewish, I stand in awe of people who have a strong belief in God, and the religious Jews I know are usually in that group. Yes, I am a Christian but have had times where I doubted that God could forgive the sins of most of us mortals, let alone welcome us into His Kingdom.
Jun 11, 2019 17:49:19 #
Boo_Boo
Loc: Jellystone
no propaganda please wrote:
I guess I just don't understand why so many people h**e religious Jews, even a large numbers of non religious Jews do so. While I am not Jewish, I stand in awe of people who have a strong belief in God, and the religious Jews I know are usually in that group. Yes, I am a Christian but have had times where I doubted that God could forgive the sins of most of us mortals, let alone welcome us into His Kingdom.
Do not underestimate the heart of our Father. I feel certain that many Gentile and Jew will be sharing space in His kingdom. Consider this, if someone offends you.... hurts you or someone you love, is then contrite and begs forgiveness, can you forgive? If you say yes, then why do you think our Father will not forgive? If, on the other hand, you can not forgive, then how could you expect our Father to forgive you? As for people hating us.... it is sad, but..... in Proverbs 8, Wisdom claims to have been with the Lord before the creation of the world, as well as present at creation (Prov.. 8:22-31). It is not surprising then when Wisdom states, “For whoever finds me finds life, and obtains favor from the Lord; but he who sins against me wrongs his own soul; all those who h**e me love death” (Prov. 8:35-36). Take heart and never loose faith!
Jun 11, 2019 20:11:30 #
no propaganda please
Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun
Pennylynn wrote:
Do not underestimate the heart of our Father. I f... (show quote)
Yes, I can and do forgive those who have harmed me, with the exception of the two men who molested my brother and preyed on him for 2 years. But then they never asked for forgiveness but were actually proud of their "affair " with the 10 year old boy.
Jun 12, 2019 19:16:08 #
Richard Rowland wrote:
Something I've been attempting to get my mind arou... (show quote)
I believe it's the dems' anti-Israel stances, and also their pro-Muslim stances that creates this. Particularly the anti-Israel stance.
Jun 12, 2019 21:42:37 #
Richard Rowland wrote:
Something I've been attempting to get my mind arou... (show quote)
All News are not equal. I was appalled and unbelieving when I found out that one of the USA so-called charitable groups making big money off government funds (our money) by bringing Muslim refugees here and dumping them in US cities and towns where those citizens then had to support those foreigners with their tax money. Since muslims are NOT shy about their hatred of Jews, I found this hard to believe, but it was true, as was the Catholic group doing the same.
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