rumitoid

The Washington State Supreme Court unanimously ruled that a Christian florist broke the law when she refused to participate in a gay wedding ceremony.

Barronelle Stutzman, the owner of Arlene’s Flowers, violated the state’s anti-discrimination law by declining to provide floral arrangements for the 2013 same-sex wedding of Robert Ingersoll and Curt Freed.

Mrs. Stutzman, a Southern Baptist grandmother, could face the loss of her business, her life savings and her home. I feature Mrs. Stutzman in my upcoming book, “CULTURE JIHAD: HOW TO STOP THE LEFT FROM K*****G A NATION.”

“The state not only went after Barronelle’s business but also sued her in her personal capacity—putting all her personal assets, including her life savings, at risk,” said Alliance Defending Freedom’s Kristen Waggoner, who argued on Stutzman’s behalf before the Washington Supreme Court in 2016.

Alliance Defending Freedom attorney John Bursch said they plan to appeal the case to the U.S. Supreme Court — setting up a clash over gay rights and religious liberty.

Mrs. Stutzman and her attorney will be guests on the Todd Starnes Radio Show on Friday.

“Barronelle serves all customers; she simply declines to celebrate or participate in sacred events that violate her deeply held beliefs,” said Bursch. “Despite that, the state of Washington has been openly hostile toward Barronelle’s religious beliefs about marriage, and now the Washington Supreme Court has given the state a pass. We look forward to taking Barronelle’s case back to the U.S. Supreme Court.”

Mrs. Stutzman is a devout Southern Baptist who believes marriage is between one man and one woman.

When longtime customer Rob Ingersoll asked her to provide flowers for the ceremony, she politely declined — a decision that became national news.

According to court documents, the gay couple suffered an “emotional toll” after Mrs. Stutzman declined to participate in their wedding.

They said the “felt so deeply offended that apparently our business is no longer good business.”

Court documents also show the Southern Baptist grandmother gladly served gay and lesbian customers in the past for non-wedding related flower orders.

Clearly, that is not good enough for Democrats and militant L**T activists — who are now demanding that people like Mrs. Stutzman set aside their religious beliefs for the sake of political correctness.

Do you really think it’s a coincidence that these same-sex couples always end up at Christian-owned bakeries, photography shops and flower shops?

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

She refused to sell them flowers?
Or she refused to personally design the arrangments?

The first is wrong... The second is fine... (in my opinion..)

rumitoid

I am personally at a loss how she or other Christians make a fuss. There is nothing in the Bible to support all these quarrels about serving "sinners," and much about our country being of laws and basic rights. Do they do the same for the divorced? Or Bankers? Or fat evangelist? Make all customers take a Moral Quiz?

JW

The First Amendment gives her the right to refuse service to anyone if providing that service violates the practice of her religion. Any law compelling anyone to violate the tenets of their religion is unconstitutional.
The state does not have the power to interpret her religion for her.

proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA

We live in really weird times JW...When the rule of law applies for some,but not for others...

rumitoid

But US law does not allow discrimination by sex. That makes it curious. In a way. But tell me, how does it specifically "violate the tenets of their (her) religion"?

eden

Seems there is disapprobation due both sides to some extent. As you point out should people be required to declare their personal orientation on entering a business? You could register your disapproval of their disapproval by taking your business elsewhere so taking them to court seems reactively remedial and of course the refuseniks get their back up
and battle lines are drawn with much manufactured outrage on both sides. Religious bigotry has always been with us
but sledge hammering it with lawsuits just seems to deepen the divide of an already divided country and nobody’s mind is changed, quite the opposite.
No real winners here.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

I agree with you for the most part...
Yet marriage strikes a cord with many...

Last year I faced this dilemma...

My childhood friend and neighbor (Grew up together..) called me and asked if I would be in the country in the summer.. He and his partner had decided to legalize their relationship .. He wanted me to be one of his bestmen... He assured me that it would be a simple ceremony outdoors... No one to officiate, just an exchange of vows and a dinner/party afterwards... Nothing religious or contentious about it....

It took me a while to think about it... But I did agree after I had mulled it over for a few days..
My only stipulation was that I didn't want to be involved with the bachelor Party (I would be the only straight guy in the wedding party )

It really brought it home to me what my feelings were exactly... Concerning L**T individuals...

Unfortunately they wound up moving the ceremony forward a month due to health issues his partner's father was experiencing..
I missed the entire thing... But they still sent me a lovely thank you card... And a standing promise to get together when possible and catch up .....

It seems like half the fights I had in high school were linked to this fella... Some folk just need to h**e... (Although we also had an altercation that came close to ending our friendship..)


Ultimately I feel that we need to respect each other... Which includes those who interpret their beliefs more fundamentally...

proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA

When i was in college many moons ago..lol Ihad this guy in my Anatomy class that i had a crush on...He was very cute..We became friends and i thought i got myself a boyfriend...I was happy..amd then.........i found out he was gay...Broke my heart..But we still were friends...We were studying in the cafeteria for a test one day and this really cute guy walked by and both of us set with out tongues h*****g out.. It was quiet funny picture...Then one night he invited me to gay bar where he used to work at...It was fun ..All these hot guys...Too bad they werent interested in little ole me....I dont know what happened to him anymore We lost communication..Oh well...Nice memories though...

Rose42

Florists aren’t hard to find. Good for her for not wanting to participate in a homosexual wedding. Christians are to obey the law unless it goes against God’s law. Its not bigotry.

Shame on the homosexual couple for whining and crying about it instead of just getting another florist. What a waste of tax dollars.

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

5Know this for sure, that no sexually immoral person, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God.
6Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. 7Therefore don't be partakers with them.
8For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, 9for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and t***h, 10proving what is well pleasing to the Lord. 11Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather even reprove them. 12For the things which are done by them in secret, it is a shame even to speak of. 13But all things, when they are reproved, are revealed by the light, for everything that reveals is light.” Ephesians 5:5-13

Would you sell condoms to someone who told you he wanted to use them when he rapes little children?

Would you sell guns to a serial k**ler who told you he couldn’t k**l enough people with a knife?

Would you sell cigarettes to 12 year olds?

We have a right in this country to buy those things, but selling them to people knowing they are going to commit a crime is called being an accessory and the Bible calls it being a partaker of other’s sins.

“When I tell the wicked, O wicked man, you shall surely die, and you don't speak to warn the wicked from his way; that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at your hand.” Ezekiel 33:8

“24Therefore God gave them up in the desires of their hearts to impurity to dishonor their bodies between themselves, 25who changed the t***h of God into falsehood, and reverenced and served the created thing beyond the One having created it, who is blessed to the ages! Amen.
26Because of this, God gave up them to passions of dishonor. For even their females changed the natural use into that contrary to nature. 27And likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their desire toward one another, males with males, working out shame and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting of their error.
28And as they did not see fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do things not being proper; 29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness; gossips, 30slanderers, h**eful to God, insolent, arrogant, boastful; inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents; 31foolish, untrustworthy, heartless, unmerciful; 32who having known the righteous judgment of God, that those doing such things are worthy of death, not only are practicing them, but are also approving of those practicing them. Romans 1:24-32

Leviticus 18:22 You must not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an a*********n.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a man as with a woman, they have both committed an a*********n. They must surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts,

Jude 1:7 In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Hi Kyle,

John 17:14-16 “I have given them your word and the world has h**ed them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it”.

This is where the saying “in the world but not of the world” comes from. Here’s what Paul wrote about it:

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 “9I wrote to you in my letter to have no company with sexual sinners; 10yet not at all meaning with the sexual sinners of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then you would have to leave the world. 11But as it is, I wrote to you not to associate with anyone who is called a brother who is a sexual sinner, or covetous, or an idolater, or a slanderer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Don't even eat with such a person. 12For what have I to do with also judging those who are outside? Don't you judge those who are within? 13But those who are outside, God judges. "Put away the wicked man from among yourselves."

Here’s an example:

1 Corinthians 10:25:29 “25Wh**ever is sold in the butcher shop, eat, asking no question for the sake of conscience, 26for "the earth is the Lord's, and its fullness." 27But if one of those who don't believe invites you to a meal, and you are inclined to go, eat wh**ever is set before you, asking no questions for the sake of conscience. 28But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," don't eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for the sake of conscience. For "the earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness." 29Conscience, I say, not your own, but the other's conscience.”

This is why it’s perfectly okay to be respectful of gays or any other who doesn’t have the same morals as us Christians, and even eat with them which certainly implies a level of fellowship.

The difference is when they, who are outside the congregation of God’s people, demand you participate in an act they are doing, which God’s word identifies as sinful behavior.

It is similar to a******n: it is one thing for l*****ts to justify murdering their own unborn. It is a completely different level, tyranny at that, for them to force people to pay for a******ns through taxes, or insurance policies, contrary to their consciences. It goes both ways, and that is why we have “freedom OF religion”. We all should have freedom to live, and express, our consciences, but not impose our consciences on those of other world views by forcing others to partake in objectionable acts, in one way or another.

When gays force or expect people to make them a cake, contrary to the other person’s moral or religious consciences, that is to impose their own morals on another’s, because they are forcing others not only to allow, but to accept, and participate in, their morals, which are objectionable to the ones they are imposing themselves on.

This is how our freedom of religion is being reversed by those who are imposing their moral view on others.

A lot of people like to point out that Jesus ate with sinners. Such usually omit that He also told them to sin no more, and that if their righteousness didn’t exceed that of the current supposed religious leaders, they wouldn’t be in the kingdom of God.

Although Jesus didn’t join in the stoning of the adulteress woman, he didn’t encourage her to continue to sin that grace may abound, either!

I’m not going to judge you in your situation with your friend, except I will say, if I were in that position I believe I’d have to ask to graciously be excused, and try to explain why.

eden

“Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a man as with a woman, they have both committed an a*********n. They must surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”

Interesting how common are the religious roots between Christianity, Islam and Judaism
in that murder of gays is sanctioned.

Rose42

That's Old Testament. Non-believers often misuse verses. Putting homosexuals to death isn't sanctioned om Christianity or Judaism. I don't know if its sanctioned in islam.

Mutton Dressed As Lamb

Were a gay couple denied essential services like housing, food, or medical care based on their sexual orientation, they would have a legitimate gripe. A floral arrangement is another story. Besides, they would get much better service and results from the numerous gay or gay friendly florists, than from a Fundamentalist Christian who felt that he/she was being compelled to do so.