The Coming Civil War Over A******n
May 17, 2019 16:52:14 #
crazylibertarian
Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
woodguru wrote:
You mean the american people of which over 70% do not want Roe v Wade overturned?
I know a large number of moderately hard right Trump supporting republicans that personally do not hold with a******n...but they think that the decision is personal and that the government needs to stay out of religious ideologies like this.
I know a large number of moderately hard right Trump supporting republicans that personally do not hold with a******n...but they think that the decision is personal and that the government needs to stay out of religious ideologies like this.
It's not a religious ideology; it is a biologic question and the answer falls on the side of the pro-lifers.
May 17, 2019 16:57:38 #
It won't be about a******n, it will be about religious freedom...the freedom to not be dictated to by someone else's religious beliefs....
This isn't about the right to practice your religion, it's about not being forced to adhere to someone else's.
This isn't about the right to practice your religion, it's about not being forced to adhere to someone else's.
May 17, 2019 17:00:03 #
crazylibertarian wrote:
It's not a religious ideology; it is a biologic question and the answer falls on the side of the pro-lifers.
Society has laws against murder and a******n is murder.
May 17, 2019 17:00:49 #
crazylibertarian wrote:
It's not a religious ideology; it is a biologic question and the answer falls on the side of the pro-lifers.
Who fortunately happen to only number at around 30%, which is a minority, it actually doesn't even include a large percentage of christians or republicans.
May 17, 2019 19:40:12 #
crazylibertarian
Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
woodguru wrote:
It won't be about a******n, it will be about religious freedom...the freedom to not be dictated to by someone else's religious beliefs....
This isn't about the right to practice your religion, it's about not being forced to adhere to someone else's.
This isn't about the right to practice your religion, it's about not being forced to adhere to someone else's.
No religious freedom trumps any other personal right, including the right-to-life. Murder is still a violation of personal rights no matter if the Mayan religion sacrificed children. Ditto the Incas.
May 17, 2019 19:42:08 #
crazylibertarian
Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
woodguru wrote:
Who fortunately happen to only number at around 30%, which is a minority, it actually doesn't even include a large percentage of christians or republicans.
You are wrong. And if you are pro-life as you have claimed, you would defintely know your facts on this. You level of information is at Kevyn's & PeterS'.
May 18, 2019 09:18:11 #
If you are attempting to make the argument that because it is alive, we cannot allow it to die, I commend where your heart is.
I would recommend funneling that heartfelt feeling toward making sure absolutely no human child on planet earth starves to death, or goes without shelter or medicine, or without v******tion, or is caught in the middle of a war zone, or dies due to a missile fired by a drone because we’re hunting terrorists and made an oopsie.
I would recommend funneling that very natural and moral feeling into protecting the right of little girls and young women to get an a******n if they are raped. Because their lives do matter and they are demonstrably human beings with legal rights. That’s one thing we all agree on.
Pregnancies can lead to complications, several of them are fatal, for example, tubal pregnancies. When the embryo implants into the fallopian tube instead of the uterine wall, the pregnancy will eventually k**l the mother, and the child.
Some little girls get raped and just the act of being pregnant at all can k**l them. In many places they will die in childbirth due to lack of medical assistance. Little girls are not meant to be pregnant even if they start m*******ting early.
Sometimes the fetus dies in utero. At that point, it must be removed for the mother’s health and safety.
And whether folks can admit it or not, the only person on Earth who can tell if this woman wants to be a mother, and consented to be a mother, and can compel her to carry on a pregnancy, is the mother.
She is God of her own body. If you make a******n illegal, more women will end up in prison for trying to save their lives, or simply live their life without bearing children that are the fruit of rape, incest, or birth control failure.
Those women will still get a******ns, and more of them will die. Coat hangers were used for this purpose. It was awful.
Making a******n safe and legal stopped that from happening. Now we want to go back?
There is a reason the courts ruled on this. The mother has rights that the state cannot simply take away.
And her life does matter. And she has the right to live her own life and make decisions affecting her body.
You have the same right, with your body.
Your body, your decision. And by that same principle, the state should not be able to impose an a******n upon you.
For the same reason it should be illegal in China to force mothers to have an a******n to “control the population”, for that exact same reason, it shouldn’t be the case that the state allows an 8 year old girl to die after being raped by her uncle, because some people get squeamish about the thought of a clump of cells in her tummy dying, but are fine with her dying as well.
Your priorities are askew.
Heart in the right place. Your opinion about what the law should be, isn’t.
Ultimately your question is less about getting an answer and more about sharing an opinion. Possibly spreading that opinion to folks like me, who disagree.
Okay, well this is why I disagree, and I am not budging. Asking me a question will not change my mind.
Even if you were to agree that the mother cannot be compelled to raise a child of rape or incest, and would provide pre-natal to death universally provided healthcare and education for this child, I still would not violate the mother’s right to choose for herself.
But at least, if you were to offer such a thing, I would believe you truly cared for both the mother and the child.
I want to provide such universal services, as are available here in Norway and dozens of other developed nations.
When you are willing to go as far as I am in protecting this woman and her unborn child, and make sure they will not die needlessly, then I will be very impressed.
As of now, all I ever hear about is making sure the child is born. After that, no one gives a s**t about the child anymore.
That’s why little kids die all over the world. Help me stop this. Don’t lecture me about a******n, I won’t budge on this one.
Help me save actual children that are actually legally human beings that are actually starving or being raised in a place without education, or dying in wars.
Do something besides grandstand about a******n. Help save actual children.
I would recommend funneling that heartfelt feeling toward making sure absolutely no human child on planet earth starves to death, or goes without shelter or medicine, or without v******tion, or is caught in the middle of a war zone, or dies due to a missile fired by a drone because we’re hunting terrorists and made an oopsie.
I would recommend funneling that very natural and moral feeling into protecting the right of little girls and young women to get an a******n if they are raped. Because their lives do matter and they are demonstrably human beings with legal rights. That’s one thing we all agree on.
Pregnancies can lead to complications, several of them are fatal, for example, tubal pregnancies. When the embryo implants into the fallopian tube instead of the uterine wall, the pregnancy will eventually k**l the mother, and the child.
Some little girls get raped and just the act of being pregnant at all can k**l them. In many places they will die in childbirth due to lack of medical assistance. Little girls are not meant to be pregnant even if they start m*******ting early.
Sometimes the fetus dies in utero. At that point, it must be removed for the mother’s health and safety.
And whether folks can admit it or not, the only person on Earth who can tell if this woman wants to be a mother, and consented to be a mother, and can compel her to carry on a pregnancy, is the mother.
She is God of her own body. If you make a******n illegal, more women will end up in prison for trying to save their lives, or simply live their life without bearing children that are the fruit of rape, incest, or birth control failure.
Those women will still get a******ns, and more of them will die. Coat hangers were used for this purpose. It was awful.
Making a******n safe and legal stopped that from happening. Now we want to go back?
There is a reason the courts ruled on this. The mother has rights that the state cannot simply take away.
And her life does matter. And she has the right to live her own life and make decisions affecting her body.
You have the same right, with your body.
Your body, your decision. And by that same principle, the state should not be able to impose an a******n upon you.
For the same reason it should be illegal in China to force mothers to have an a******n to “control the population”, for that exact same reason, it shouldn’t be the case that the state allows an 8 year old girl to die after being raped by her uncle, because some people get squeamish about the thought of a clump of cells in her tummy dying, but are fine with her dying as well.
Your priorities are askew.
Heart in the right place. Your opinion about what the law should be, isn’t.
Ultimately your question is less about getting an answer and more about sharing an opinion. Possibly spreading that opinion to folks like me, who disagree.
Okay, well this is why I disagree, and I am not budging. Asking me a question will not change my mind.
Even if you were to agree that the mother cannot be compelled to raise a child of rape or incest, and would provide pre-natal to death universally provided healthcare and education for this child, I still would not violate the mother’s right to choose for herself.
But at least, if you were to offer such a thing, I would believe you truly cared for both the mother and the child.
I want to provide such universal services, as are available here in Norway and dozens of other developed nations.
When you are willing to go as far as I am in protecting this woman and her unborn child, and make sure they will not die needlessly, then I will be very impressed.
As of now, all I ever hear about is making sure the child is born. After that, no one gives a s**t about the child anymore.
That’s why little kids die all over the world. Help me stop this. Don’t lecture me about a******n, I won’t budge on this one.
Help me save actual children that are actually legally human beings that are actually starving or being raised in a place without education, or dying in wars.
Do something besides grandstand about a******n. Help save actual children.
May 18, 2019 09:26:25 #
crazylibertarian
Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
permafrost wrote:
If you are attempting to make the argument that be... (show quote)
You ought to think qbout grandstanding. This entire posting is nothing but. Trite sophistry at its basest.
Like all liberals, you have no principles.
May 18, 2019 09:59:24 #
crazylibertarian wrote:
You ought to think qbout grandstanding. This entire posting is nothing but. Trite sophistry at its basest.
Like all liberals, you have no principles.
Like all liberals, you have no principles.
I am principally POd by the hypocrisy of the right wing..
May 18, 2019 11:03:02 #
crazylibertarian
Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
permafrost wrote:
I am principally POd by the hypocrisy of the right wing..
Look in the mirror for hypocrisy. That is a word that from both Right & Left has become meaningless. The fact is that we are all hypocrites.
I am a man who falls far short of the ideal, so yes I admit to being a hypocrite but you should also. Of course, it's so much harder for liberals to apply to themselves the same charges they so easily level at others.
May 18, 2019 12:12:26 #
May 18, 2019 15:44:01 #
permafrost wrote:
If you are attempting to make the argument that be... (show quote)
"Here in Norway". Thought you were in MN perma
May 18, 2019 16:57:25 #
okie don wrote:
"Here in Norway". Thought you were in MN perma
It is from a cousin in Norway....
May 18, 2019 17:59:49 #
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