JW

As I have said in the past, I am an agnostic, so it would be understandable if you knew that and jumped to the conclusion that I am opposed to religion.

I have been considering the subject question for some time but from the wrong perspective, I think. The Bible says that whenever the children of Israel strayed from their devotion to Jehovah, the Hebrew people suffered and it was only after they renewed their allegiance to Him that they once more commanded a nation and prospered.

That part is supported by history.

So, if I, as an agnostic, question the existence of God, how can I find substance in that history? Because it is history!

Irrespective of the question of the actual existence of a God, the existence of religion is absolutely real and physical. What is it then that religion offers a society that would be so pivotal in maintaining the efficacy of a culture and cohesive power of a society?

To answer that requires that we understand the human animal, not just the intellectual being.

Everything that an animal does in the natural world is either forbidden or constrained by religious teaching. In the natural world, animals k**l each other; something certainly not an unknown characteristic of people. In the natural world, animals take wh**ever they want. There is no property, privacy or protection if the animal cannot provide it for itself. The same holds true for us except that we are taught from earliest childhood that there is a concept of right and wrong. That concept comes primarily out of religion.

All human legal systems are a by-product of the religious mindset; not necessarily of religion directly but out of that mindset. All human obedience to the law is a by-product of religious teachings.

Religion is self-censorship. It is pervasive within a culture. Eliminate religion and along with it goes self-limited behavior. So, the state must step in to provide the limiting factors for the culture. The state uses legal and physical control of individual members of the state. The further from self control an individual gets, the more entitled he feels, the more the state needs to restrain the individual.

Maybe it is not so surprising that all socialist nations move toward atheism and state control by truly evil dictators… that all of them eventually collapse. Just Wondering is where my handle comes from, JW. Wondering once more, can society exist without religion?

PeterS

No, man has always been terrified of death so until he is able to get over that fear he will always invent gods to save him from the unknown...

JW

From the standpoint of human civilization, fear of death is not important. Religion is an acknowledged control mechanism but it is mostly self-control. What happens when that control is gone or seriously weakened?

Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX

Chaos.

plainlogic

The moral issue comes direct from commandments for 2000 years. The big question, no seems to really answer is: why do people fight over a book the reads of morality, love, respect. Everything in it points to peace with in themselves. So, what is the problem the atheists, agnostics, Democrats, rinos have?

MatthewlovesAyn Loc: Ohio

Have you read the bible? Especially the old testament? It's so full of sax and violins, it's like a porno.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

JW='just wondering,' huh Makes sense.

By just wondering, you certainly present some interesting thoughts.

F.D.R.

JW, as someone literally a heartbeat away from death, now more than ever, I wonder if there's a GOD. Raised Catholic, the priests and nuns did more to discourage my faith than to ensure it. Questions I felt were reasonable - even now - were answered with "you must have faith". Science claims the universe started with the big bang, the Church disputes that claiming that you can't create something from nothing. Well, based on their own argument, how did GOD come into being? However the thing that most concerns me now is Hell. IF GOD is an all loving GOD how could he sentence anyone to burn for eternity, a few month's or years maybe, but eternity? I just hope that if there really is a GOD he has a great sense of humor. Personally, GOD or no GOD I'm hoping that in the end I just turn into fertilizer and that's the end of it. From what I hear about Heaven it doesn't interest me and Hell certainly is not on my must see list.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

"There are things that gnaw on a man worse than death."
Charley Waite.

amyinsparta

Religion is one thing, spirituality is quite another. Of course we can function without religion. 95% of our wars over millennia have been religious wars. Religion as it works is simply another way for certain groups to dominate other groups. And it's quite obvious that the books are written by those who obviously are channeling different entities. Otherwise we would have just one religion. OR, we have the same message, but we hear it differently. Either way, it has been responsible for most of our woes.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Not true.

In the 20th Century alone, more people were murdered by their own atheistic governments than were k**led in war action during all the wars in that century.

20th Century Democide

JimMe

I believe human society can thrive without religion... But, this is something we have invested millenniums creating, and within my lifetime will never give-up...

JW

I share your tenuous relationship with life. However, I have been trying to understand the concept of God for all of my adult life. That interest is not borne from my ill health.

According to the Bible, Hell is not for eternity. Revelation, I think, states that Hell and the seas and the graves will give up their dead for the final judgment by God. My understanding is that those judged to reside with God will do so and those not so judged will be terminated. Frankly, I look forward to termination if Heaven is as described. I can't see myself spending an eternity telling God how wonderful He is. I can't honestly imagine a God who would want such an eternity.

Personally, religion strikes me as two things; the great equalizer for understanding the fruits of good and evil and the necessary social impetus to maintain an intellectual supremacy over the animal nature of mankind. I think it is indispensable for maintaining a civilized society and a concept of ultimate justice.

JW

I don't disagree. My current opinion is that human civilization depends on the existence of a belief in God.