JW

Since it is now 20+ pages long, I will summarize here.

There were four basic responses that were presented.

1 – God’s gonna git ya fer that.
2 – Who do you think you are to question God.
3 – I know you would believe if you just…
4 – Well, let’s take a look at that.

I am grateful for all of the responses but was primarily looking for type four.

It’s difficult to broach any subject revolving around God without opening up a religious debate. That was not my intent. I am agnostic. That means, literally, I do ‘not know’. My interest is not in becoming religious, denying the efficacy of religion, nor is it to be judgmental of religious people. I am simply looking for answers to things that confound me. I have experienced and learned a great deal in my 72 years and still have questions without answers.

I understand the draw of religion and of the sense of certainty a belief can provide. Religion is probably the single best motivation to self discipline society has at its disposal. Unfortunately, in evil hands, it remains a powerful motivator.

In any case, I am going to study your responses for some time to come. I will look into the links and suggestions you have provided and once more, Thank you!

JW

Hug

J W, read LIFE APPLICATION STUDY BIBLE from front page to last page. Pay attention to the discussion on each page. I did and it changed my life.

Wonttakeitanymore

Religion is man reaching out to God, Christianity is God reaching out to man! He sent his only son to die for our sins so that we could have everlasting life!

debeda

Good luck in your journey

Radiance3

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Amen!

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Please remember, don't become bitter and closed down to the Creator.

rumitoid

Amen!

maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

Good day, sir.
My good friend, Canuckus Deploracus, asked if I reviewed you post and I confess, for wh**ever reason i was flooded with topics from OPP and I missed yours.
So, I've looked at it now and I've thought about it. Here we go....
First off, you say you don't object to one's personal beliefs as long as they remain personal. I'm thinking logically here...you want people to keep their beliefs personal, which to me means keep it to yourself, but you have put you beliefs, (or lack of) right out there in the public eye of OPP. Also, the title is somewhat of a challenge seemingly, though your post caused no drama in my faith at all.

That said, now, for the meat of your post. Born Catholic, raised Baptist, took part in church. All very good but why did you tell us this? Was it to say that your religious background failed you? That your background was of no value? You also didn't say how long you have been agnostic.
Next, you you don't say that there IS NO God, but that there MAY be a God, and that mankind's views of Him are inaccurate. I can agree with you on that one.
Further, you "asked" (not said) that IF God can do anything, then why make a universe that destroys itself?

Well,I have an answer for you and it is that I don't believe that God created the universe in the state of turmoil that it's in today. God created a perfect universe. The brightest star in the heavens was not Jesus, but was Lucifer. Lucifer is obviously greater than we are ( the Bible says we are made a little lower than the angels, and Lucifer and his demons were angels.

My point is that angels had free will, just as we do today. That's why Lucifer was allowed to decide that HE wanted to be in the place of God, to be the most high. Lucifer was in fellowship with God until he took this view. Lucifer was kicked out of heaven along with 1/3 of all the angels in existence. (Free will). Lucifer got angry when God gave d******n of the earth to man, instead of him. That's why he h**es mankind and wants to take every man to hell, to spite God. I believe the universe was perfect until Lucifer committed his great wrong doing. Adam and Eve had the same chance, but they sinned also.

Until that time, there were no carnivorous animals anywhere. But once they committed sin, the earth was cursed for man's sake. Until they committed sin, there was no disease, no growing old, and no dying.

Lucifer had free will, his demons had free will, Adam had free will, and Eve had free will, but every one of them committed acts against the will of God. To me, that is why the earth is wrought with disease and pestilence. It's why things die and why things rot. Only when Jesus comes to claim his bride will God start to put the universe right again.

Lastly, you say that IF God is omniscient, that he knew of all the agony, pain, torture and death, and since he lives outside of our linear time line, he DOES see past present and future all at once. But the "blame" is not His. THAT belongs to Lucifer, his angels, and mankind, all who sinned one right after the other. Your aware, I'm sure, that when things go well, God is never mentioned, but when things go bad, it's always why did God do this to me? or why did God let this happen?

Finally, you said you wanted to present an argument for open mindedness, but to me, the question is, do YOU have that open mind? You have entertained the notion that there is no God because you don't like the way things are going in the world, and it seems so unfair. Did God make it that way? No, man did all that. God doesn't like it either, but he gave us our choice and we MUST live by it.

And there's this point also, you went to church so you know that God offers us eternal life...never ending life with no pain, no sorrow, no hunger, and no death...our earthly existence is only a wink, a puff of smoke and it's over. But if one has salvation, it is only beginning!

Can you answer me this...what takes more of an open mind to believe... that there IS NO God when so many today agree with you? But keep this in mind. Science only deals with what can be tried and proven. Because God gives us salvation through faith, He can't be proven, and even if He could, then faith would be null. So, I believe that it takes much more of an open mind to believe that there IS a God and that He is responsible for everything that is, but not for the condition that everything is in.

Please, keep in mind. that I am not arguing with you, nor am I scolding you. I'm not preaching, or trying to be persuasive. I am merely presenting an open minded view that is becoming more and more objectionable and unacceptable as time marches on, i.e., that there IS a God, that He IS the God of the Bible. It takes a strong belief and a strong faith to believe in God when the world seems to have forgotten Him.

I hope I'm not too late in responding to you, and my reply requires no answer, just thought.

Texas Truth Loc: Behind Enemy Lines

Always remember you are surrounded by friends in Christ who care about you. Thank you for starting an excellent post. To see people coming out and pouring their hearts out for all to see in all honesty before man and God. I'm sure God is very much paying attention to this for he knows every heart. Please do not get discouraged. It happens to all of us at one time or another. And I'll say this again it is always darkest before the Dawn's light. Jesus be praised!

Rose42

JW I would encourage you to speak to a pastor (or pastors) and perhaps go to a bible study and ask some questions. Reading is great but so is face to face interaction.

Its an encouraging sign that you made that post - its the Holy Spirit at work. Don’t give up!

debeda

good morning, Rumi. How goes it?

debeda

Good essay, Max! Lots of food for thought. Thanks for posting

hischild

Very well thought post! GOD said That those who honestly seek Him will find Him!!

Ricktloml

I often remind myself, that the Love of God and Jesus Christ is never ending and unconditional. However, salvation IS conditional, and our heavenly Father sent us a love letter that gives us a road map to salvation, all we have to do is read it, and follow the directions. Should WE choose to reject God's advice and love, then what we end up with is our choice, not His.

Carol Kelly

Just believe. Live your life the best you can. Relax and let God enter your life. Tomorrow is the celebration of life that the world has waited for. Happy Easter.