Doc110 Loc: York PA

Pennylynn,


My safe-room,
Is not to have further discussions with particular people who you defend and support.

I didn't cast the first stone, . . . so get your facts correct here and stop denying and deflecting the t***h.

With your particular personal biasses that many have posed as a severe inability, to listen to one another's viewpoints.

And then taking on the (sensationalism,) by allowing others to attacking another belief, and then doing nothing for six months.


Pennylynn, Those are the facts, if you haven't received my Private Message already.

So stew on those facts, . . .
You didn't change your opinion of me three years ago plus, . . .

When I probably predicted this outcome with you and your inability to handle the present situation and salacious public responses to me.

Just look at your response to me in your two replies in this thread which you can't distinguish from facts or fiction.


Then and your present day FRS forum debacle. What would your papa say now to the present day facts presented ?

It's all your doing, take responsibility, ownership and blame . . . It's all yours . . .

I don't play games, and am not your games, my personal suggestion is stop it, . . . and grow up and not being a self-centered person.

It's only a suggestion because, I h**e to be balamed in other people's dirty laundry.


A Guide to "Internetting": The internet breakdown of every type "Trolling" on online blogging trolls
https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-37830-1.html

"Internetting Trolls :
a. Sea-Lioning Troll's, Self-Appointed "Good Cop"
b. Concern Troll's, Pseudo-Displays of "Constructive Criticism"
c. Gish Galloping Troll's, Falsehoods nitpicking arguments unrelated details
d. Impersonation Troll's, create h**x impersonation accounts in your name
e. Dog-Piling Troll's, Online silencing, Cyber Mob to discredit a target
g. Gas-Lighting Troll's, Giving false information to cause self-doubt.



Pennylynn, moving onto the article at hand. "Here’s a Defense of the Traditional Date for Christmas . . . December 25."

Don't you find this article even remotely intriguing ?

The article is word for word, by Dr. Taylor Marshall.

My reply is a mostly a cut and paste response. ? to make it more simplistic, I still don't understand your rational argument opinion?

Pennylynn,
Question you read it mostly ? Please stop being disingenuous.

Concentration on the article issues ? Or do you have an inability to reply, because of your education and religious theology ?


Nobody is trying lecturing anybody here Pennylynn.

Here is a question, or do you just have a pre-disposition of anti-Catholic biasses ?

In your inability to his approach or to react or respond to Dr. Marshalls article ?

Pennylynn,
I just have a differences of perspective and take on Religion, history, people and their personal motives.

Which are the Facts, T***h and Wisdom . . . to accept facts and knowledge.


My Papa was my mentor,
He raised 14 children, he lost both his parents at a young age of five before the depression era.

He rose through the enlisted ranks in War World II, and was decorated with the Bronze Star and numerous Army citation's.

He became an officer the top in his class of 100 in Massachusetts Boston Latin, and had a 38 year military service, retiring as a General in the US Army and Massachusetts Army National guard.

I took care of both of my Parents before their deaths and had many detailed conversations with them.

Yeah Pennylynn,
My Father taught me that you can do anything, in your mind, body, soul and with the blessings of Jesus Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit.


The only limiting factor my Father-Dad taught me, is the people that respond with the word, . . . "NO in a discussion or conversation."


Reflect on that . . .
And reflect on the Bible narratives and the simplistic question, human conception date?

And the human gestation period? And the ability just do the simple math . . . found in the Bible

God the Father and the Holy Spirit is the cause of this beautiful wonderful miraculous event and of birth of the absolute greatest person alive, Jesus Christ.

A man and a God that changed world history, Theology, and Philosophy of people, and our faithfulness to his words and instructions to His church for 1,987 years.

"To be deep in history, is to cease being Protestant, and quite possibly Judaism."
Cardinal John Henry Newman, Anglican 19th century theologian convert to Catholicism.


Pennylynn,
All that is presented is a biblical timeline? And a human timeline? Conception time-line and birth a 40 week gestation period.

And deducing accurately by using that to predict the Birth of Jesus, which is found in the Bible New Testament.


Imagine that,
Where Theologians, Philosophers, Historians to this present day.

So for 1,987 years these Educated-Thinkers could not even fathom this simplistic article. Defense of the Traditional Date for Christmas . . . December 25


And you say this is too complicated for anyone to understand.

What a sham what a false reply . . .


I have a human Health Biology Medical degree;
With 20 years worth history in the medical field, a degree in telecommunications and in Motion Film Production field and a 15 years work history, and a degree in Occupational Safety and Industrial Hygiene work related 5 years history.

Among countless jobs that I've worked in, so please don't give me that Education malarkey, . . . and blowing your holy smoke education attitude.

Pennylynn
So you think your superior in knowledge and with university degrees, than the rest of us less common folk.

How nice, . . . and isn't that special how superior you are . . .

Pennylynn,
Please stop limiting others, for the capacity to learn and to enjoy Life, and their Christian knowledge and understanding.


If I must say, . . .
I have a 50 year personal degree, in reading the Bible, Christian manuscripts literature, and world-wide historical accounts of world history.

I have a numinous collection of books on history, and have read Will Durant's books Story of Civilization.

And especially enjoy the volume "Christ and Cesar," and commentary.


Here are some of Will Durant's quotation's on education and life; They are fascinating . . . . and is very insightful about the arrogance and hubris of some people.

a. Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.
b. Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice.
c. One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say.
d. Inquiry is fatal to certainty.
e. Education is the t***smission of civilization.
f. History is mostly guessing; the rest is prejudice.
g. Every science begins as philosophy and ends as art.
h. The trouble with most people is that they think with their hopes or fears or wishes rather than with their minds.
I. The family is the nucleus of civilization.
J. It may be true that you can't fool all the people all the time, but you can fool enough of them to rule a large country.


Pennylynn,
Take your pick to your opposition's to Dr. Taylor Marshal, "Here’s a Defense of the Traditional Date for Christmas . . . December 25"

1. Dr. Marshal's 2754 word two page article.
Arguably, It could be the most simplistic accounting as the Jewish priest biblical record.

2. And of human gestation birth period and 40 week accounting, from the of the Day of Atonement, which lands on the tenth day of the Hebrew month of Tishri (roughly the end of our September).

Immediately after this entry into the temple and message of the Archangel Gabriel, Zacharias and Elizabeth conception of John the Baptist.

Allowing for forty weeks of gestation, this places the birth of John the Baptist at the end of June—

Once again confirming the Catholic and Orthodoxy Church faiths date for the “Nativity of Saint John the Baptist” on June 24.


3. The rest of the dating is rather simple.

We read that just after the Immaculate Virgin Mary conceived Christ, she went to visit her cousin Elizabeth who was six months pregnant with John the Baptist.

This means that John the Baptist was six months older that our Lord Jesus Christ.
(Luke 1:24-27, 36).

4. If you add six months to June 24 you get December 24-25 as the birthday of Christ.

Then, if you subtract nine months from December 25 you get that the Annunciation was March 25.

All the dates match up perfectly.



Pennylynn,
So then, if John the Baptist was conceived shortly after the Jewish Day of the Atonement, then the traditional Catholic dates are essentially correct.

If this article is two long for you, for simple a 2,754 word two page article, it's just an excuse and an inability to participate in a logical discussion on your part.


Right now I am participating in an 365 day online-course on Saint Thomas Aquinas "Suma Theologica", This article is simplistic than the "Suma Theologica."

There is no comparison to this article by Dr. Marshal to Saint Thomas Aquinas "Suma Theologica"


I do believe also, that any person has the mental capacity and Christian ability, just to use their mind as God gave them to use it.

I have three college university degrees against your educational biases rational argument.


Pennylynn,
"Which "Does not compute with this stance and position of defense argumentation."

All you posed and replied back to me is a fallacy argumentation, take your pick on which literary fallacy argument you have chosen, or do you need me to list the idom's for you.

The human mind can grasp any theory, or educational doctrine, . . . than what you present in discussion on the, Defense of the Traditional Date for Christmas . . . December 25.


Pennylynn you have made it difficult to discuss the option of "Defense of the Traditional Date for Christmas . . . December 25."

By hiding behind your limiting position of an education and knowledgeable people of higher degrees in religious applied learning.


Is this what your papa told you ?

You took a cop-out position because you don't want to talk about a simplistic assessment of what the Bible says in facts, knowledge and of t***h.


1. Look at the historical jewish facts about;

Since your have a rabbinical background, and have been educated, with many advanced degrees.

Who here does not want to discuss the article issues, rather than participating in an on-line degree program where someone lectures on issues.


Pennylynn words
"Discussions leave room for differing ideas (which do not requiring a degree of personal insight, intellect, and reasoning) whereas a lecture is a one sided.

In every lecture there is a Question and answer section, I believed Dr. Marshal answered those objections right away in the article.

So we are now talking about, Biblical facts, Facts, FACTs. . . .

What does that mean in a discussion comment by you. Please explain ?
Quote "Believe as I tell you, command." More educational gibberish educational talk.

Pennylynn,
Could your educated opinion, be wrong ?

In its' is simplistically approach of looking at the Biblical narratives and that easy to answer the biblical account of Zacharias, as he served in the “course of Abias.”

And Elezabeth's 40 week gestation and birth of her son, John the Baptist.

The most important words of of John's mouth were, "He must increase, but I must decrease.”
John3:30


I believe that your education and probably in your Jewish roots and quite your possibility of protestant conversion, or leanings, e.g.

With many an advanced degrees and who is not participating in the discussion, and not here to discuss issues, but only to dispute Dr. Marshal's findings with an education degree. Oh my how sad, how disingenuous . . .


Pennylynn
a. All one has to do is look at the biblical facts, the human factor of conception and 40 week birth gestation period and the rest is so very simple . . .

"To be deep in history, is to cease being Protestant, and or of Judaism for that matter.


Doc110

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I replied to the topic, which was Reply in: Here’s a Defense of the Traditional Date for Christmas . . . December 25 . . .. I have nothing to say about your personal problem with me. As I said, you are entitled to your opinion. Now should you go back on topic, then I may have more to say about that, but certainly I will not respond to your personal attack.

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Pennylynn,

Lets look at your two personal attacks on me, publicly.

You and only you chose to cast the first stone, you attached and attacked, first publicly in your two replies.

I don't like bullies, that can't speak openly and honestly . . .

Are we clear on this fact, or do you want to play the salaciousness game further.

Stop it Pennylyn,
I'm tired of this the deceit, or is this your attempt to make me and force me to leave the OPP forum.

Which appears to be the case of sour grapes . . .

Doc110

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Kazudy

Could you or would provide, any real factual information to the false laughable claims that you provided ?

Kazudy, Could I get any clearer than this, in your statement, as to the fable easter bunny Article Post reply;

Your opinion is a: farce, absurdity, mis-caricature, comedy, joke, mockery, sham, slapstick, travesty, buffoonery, mockery, and ridiculousness.

I guess that say's it all.


My Personal motto, is no conjecture, or inaccurate personal diatribe opinions;

Kazudy, Please respond and provide statements with actual references and historical background in your replies.
a. provide facts, Facts, FACTs,
b. no Supposition's,
c. no Innuendo's,
d. no Exaggeration's of your own Personal Emotional Belief's,
e. no Hypocritical T***h's,
f. no Empty Rhetoric devoid of any Real Factual Substance and
g. no full of Regurgitated Dendrite Compost Opinions.



You failed totally in your response to me and as to the facts in the article Post;
"Here’s a Defense of the Traditional Date for Christmas . . . December 25 . . ."
But what the hey . . . it's ok with your present day modern inaccurate relativism. . . . Hey, "Believe in what ever you want" . . .


Kazudy, The facts are staring you in the face, You have two options;

a. Either you can accept the facts presented or challenge your own moralistic beliefs by doing the actual historical research as Dr. Marshal did.
b. And or, not blindly follow, someone's else's viewpoint or criticism, that you have heard and or have passed on these facts to others.



My answers to your personal objections will be in bold from Dr. Marshals Article will be in Bold


Kazudy


1. Jesus was not born on December 25th.

My suggestion is to re-read the article again;

"Here’s a Defense of the Traditional Date for Christmas . . . December 25" . . .
However, it is (“Commonly alleged”) that our Lord Jesus Christ was not born on December 25.
For the sake of simplicity, let us set out the usual objections to the date of December 25 and counter each of them.

The article presents John the Baptist conception date September the 28, his 40 week gestation period and birth of John the Baptist as June 24.
Do the math, back up three months before, Mary was conceived in March, and a 40 week gestation period, and Jesus Christ was born December 25-25.
Just follow the biblical accounts Apostles narrative and the Early Church fathers writings.



2. He was born in the spring time.

John the Baptist conception date September the 28, his 40 week gestation period and birth of John the Baptist as June 24.

Do the math, back up three months before, Mary was conceived in March, and a 40 week gestation period, and Jesus Christ was born December 25-25.
Just follow the biblical accounts Apostles narrative and the Early Church fathers writings.
Thus your assumption it cant be possible for Jesus to be born in the springtime.
That would mean it took 52 weeks, a year for his birth.



3. It is possible that He was conceived on December 25th.

Your absolutely correct that Jesus was not conceived on December 25th. Or is this a grammatical writing mistake ?

The English monk Bede, argued that even the word Easter derived from a pagan fertility goddess named “Eostre” in English and Germanic cultures.

Scholars have since noted that there is little to no evidence of such a goddess outside of Bede’s writings.

What Are the Real Origins of Easter?
https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/what-are-the-real-origins-of-easter

If Easter doesn’t come from the Bible, and wasn’t practiced by the apostles and early Church, where did it come from?
The King James Version says Easter once . .


4. The emperor Constantine at the time wanting to unit his subjects merged his pagan religion (he worshiped the sun) with Christendom.

Wow thats a really big illogical stretch of the imagination, which is completely and historically inaccurate . . .

Could you provide any real factual information the false claims that you provided.

a. Emperor Constantine life, February 27, 272 AD, Died: May 22, 337, who ruled between 306 and 337 AD.

b. Constantine should have sought divine help for his claim for power and divine justification for his acquisition of it.
What is remarkable is Constantine’s subsequent development of his new religious allegiance to a strong personal commitment.
Christian clergy should not be distracted by secular offices from their religious duties “…
for when they are free to render supreme service to the Divinity, it is evident that they confer great benefit upon the affairs of state.”
Emperor Constantine was a political opportunist.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Constantine-I-Roman-emperor

c. Constantine stated in his opinion that the dispute was fostered only by excessive leisure and academic contention, that the point at issue was trivial and could be resolved without difficulty. His optimism was not justified: Indeed, for more than 40 years after the death of Constantine, Arianism was actually the official orthodoxy of the Eastern Empire. Despite
what the letter nor the Council of Nicaea said. As a child he worshiped the sun gods.
Earlier I said Emperor Constantine was a political opportunist. He didn't mean these political comments or did he act Christian in name only . . . He became a Christian at his death.
d. He was eventually baptized in 337 by the bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia, in that city. Constantine died soon after at a suburban villa called Achyron.



5. He chose Dec.25 because that's when he celebrated his god Sol Invicus or Mirthas.

Reply to Objection 2:

Let us examine first the cult of the Unconquered Sun.
The Emperor Aurelian introduced the cult of the Sol Invictus or Unconquered Sunto Rome in A.D. 274.
Aurelian found political traction with this cult, because his own name Aurelian derives from the Latin word aurora denoting “sunrise.”
Coins reveal that Emperor Aurelian called himself the Pontifex Solis or Pontiff of the Sun.
Thus, Aurelian simply accommodated a generic solar cult and identified his name with it at the end of the third century.
Most importantly, there is no historical record for a celebration Natalis Sol Invictus on December 25 prior to A.D. 354.
Within an illuminated manuscript for the year A.D. 354, there is an entry for December 25 reading “N INVICTI CM XXX.”
Here N means “nativity.” INVICTI means “of the Unconquered.”
CM signifies “circenses missus” or “games ordered.”
The Roman numeral XXX equals thirty.
Thus, the inscription means that thirty games were order for the nativity of the Unconquered for December 25th.
Note that the word “sun” is not present.
Moreover, the very same codex also lists “natus Christus in Betleem Iudeae” for the day of December 25.

Yet this was less an expression of religious megalomania than of Constantine’s literal conviction that he was the successor of the evangelists, having dev**ed his life and office to the spreading of Christianity.

Constantine was totally ruthless toward his political enemies, while his legislation, apart from its concessions to Christianity, is notable mainly for a brutality that became characteristic of late Roman enforcement of law.
Constantine could expect little popularity, was his institution of a new tax, the collatio lustralis.
It was levied every five years upon trade and business and seems to have become genuinely oppressive.
Constantine's generosity was only made possible by his l**ting of the treasures of the pagan temples as well as by his confiscations and new taxes;
I'd say Emperor Constantine was a political and social opportunist. Follow the money trail.



6. Thus Christmas, then Easter was Constatine's god of fertility that he merged with Jesus Resurrection.

Easter is about the pagan celebration of the Vernal Equinox (Ostara) The Germanic goddess Ēostre or Ostara (Old English: Ēastre, West Saxon dialect (Old English) Ēostre;

A goddess associated with spring and not fertility. Venus of Willendorf is the ancient goddess of fertility. Christmas festivals were celebrated around the winter solstice by pagan populations.

Christians today owe a tremendous debt to the Roman emperor Constantine.
The three most important things the church owed to Constantine were a roadmap for reuniting communities split by persecution, a universal definition of the Church’s teaching, and He a fixed date for the celebration of Easter.

a. He changed the place of the Church in the Roman World, moving it through his own conversion from the persecuted fringe of the empire’s religious landscape to the center of the empire’s system of belief.
b. He also tackled huge problems with the way Christians understood in their community.
The three most important things the church owed to Constantine were a roadmap for reuniting communities split by persecution, a universal definition of the Church’s teaching, and c. He a fixed date for the celebration of Easter.

His solutions to the second and third issues remain in place to this day. Whether it was accurate is the present day accuracy problem.

The Easter question had been festering for centuries,
And the problems were inextricably tied up with the fact that no one recorded the actual day of the Crucifixion.
All that people could know on the basis of Christian Scripture was that the crucifixion was linked to the celebration of Passover, which meant that it should come at some point in the spring. But when?
Since the date of Passover, then as now, is celebrated in accordance with the Jewish calendar, the correlation with the Julian calendar used by Christians according to the Jewish calendar and the letter of the Council of Nicaea.



7. That's why the hiding of eggs on Easter.

In many cultures around the world, the egg is a symbol of new life, fertility and rebirth.

For thousands of years, Iranians and others have decorated eggs on Nowruz, the Iranian New Year that falls on the spring equinox.
Some claim that the Easter egg has pagan roots.
Brightly decorated eggs, Easter egg rolling and Easter egg hunts have ... Bede argued that even the word Easter derived from a pagan fertility ...

Easter, also called Pascha (Greek, Latin) or Resurrection Sunday,
It is a festival and holiday celebrating the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, described in the New Testament as having occurred on the third day of his burial after his crucifixion by the Romans at Calvary c. 30 AD.

For Christians, the Easter egg is symbolic of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The egg is seen by followers of Christianity as a symbol of resurrection: while being dormant it contains a new life sealed within it.
An egg hunt involves hiding eggs outside for children to run around and find on Easter morning. ...
Eggs are rolled as a symbolic re-enactment of the rolling away of the stone from Christ's tomb.

According to some sources, the Easter bunny first arrived in America in the 1700s with German immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania and t***sported their tradition of an egg-laying hare called “Osterhase” or “Oschter Haws.”
Their children made nests in which this creature could lay its colored eggs.
In the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches, Easter eggs are dyed red to represent the blood of Christ, with further symbolism being found in the hard shell of the egg symbolizing the sealed Tomb of Christ — the cracking of which symbolized his resurrection from the dead.



8. He also changed the Sabboth to SUNday.

Sunday was another work day in the Roman Empire.

On March 7, 321, however, Roman Emperor Constantine I issued a civil decree making Sunday a day of rest from labor, stating: All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon the venerable day of the sun.

Origins of Sunday worship. ...
In the 2nd century the church of Rome lacked jurisdictional authority to impose a novel universal change of Sabbath rest from the seventh day to the first, or to obtain universal Sunday worship had it been introduced after the Christian church had spread throughout the known world.
In Eastern Christianity, the Sabbath is considered still to be on Saturday, the seventh day, in remembrance of the Hebrew Sabbath.
In Catholicism and most sects of Protestantism, the "Lord's Day" (Greek Κυριακή) is considered to be on Sunday, the first day (and "eighth day").

The Sabbath therefore coincides with what the Gregorian calendar identifies as Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.
Similarly, the first day of the week ("Sunday") coincides with Gregorian Saturday sunset to Sunday sunset.
The Sabbath continued to be observed on the seventh day in the early Christian church.

Sunday is a day of rest in most Western countries, as a part of the weekend and weeknight.
For most observant Christians, Sunday is observed as a day of worship and rest, holding it as the Lord's Day and the day of Christ's resurrection.
Old English was the language of the Anglo-Saxons. In Germanic mythology the sun is personified as a goddess variously named Sunna or Sól (Sun in Old Norse).
The name of the day is also related to the Latin name dies Martis, "Day of Mars".

The name "Sunday",
The day of the Sun, is derived from Hellenistic astrology, where the seven planets, known in English as Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, the Sun, Venus, Mercury and the Moon, each had an hour of the day assigned to them, and the planet which was regent during the first hour of any day of the week gave its name
In some Muslim countries and Israel, Sunday is the first work day of the week.

And this is reflected in the Old English name for Sunday, Sunnandæg, meaning "day of the sun."
The Lord's Day in Christianity is generally Sunday, the principal day of communal worship.
It is observed by most Christians as the weekly memorial of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is said in the canonical Gospels to have been witnessed alive from the dead early on the first day of the week.


The Lord of the Sabbath,

Is an expression describing Jesus which appears in all three Synoptic Gospels,
Matthew 12:1-8, Mark 2:23-28 and Luke 6:1-5.

These sections each relate an encounter between Jesus, his Apostles and the Pharisees, the first of the four "Sabbath controversies".
Quakers traditionally referred to Sunday as "First Day" eschewing the pagan origin of the English name, while referring to Saturday as the "Seventh day".
The Russian word for Sunday is "Voskresenie," meaning "Resurrection day."
The Greek word for Sunday is "Kyriake" (the "Lord's Day").


We have not been willing or able to change things back.

Don't panic people, as long as you accept and confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you're good.