Mary the Mother of God . . . the Dormition "falling asleep" or the Bodily Assumption to Heaven ? Or Both ?
Dec 11, 2018 10:56:05 #
August 1, 2008 Dormition or Assumption ? Or Both ?
In the Orthodox tradition we are usually very careful to distinguish between the “Dormition” of the Mother of God and her “Assumption” into heaven.
The former, we feel, is properly Orthodox, while the latter strikes us as a purely Western designation, derived from a Roman Catholic “misunderstanding” of the meaning of this feast, celebrated universally on August 15.
It is true that some very genuine yet misguided interpretations of Mary’s death and exaltation can be found both in Catholic spiritual writings and in contemporary Western icons:
A tendency, for example, to exalt the Holy Virgin to a level of “divinity” that effectively erases the crucial and absolute distinction between human and divine life.
Orthodox theologians will insist that the “deification” (theôsis) known by the Mother of God in no way involves an ontological transformation of her being from created humanity to divinity.
She was and will always remain a human creature:
The most exalted of all those who bear God’s image, yet always a human being, whose glory appears in her humility, her simple desire to “let it be” according to the divine will.
Traditional Orthodox icons of her “falling asleep,”
Therefore, focus especially on her death and entombment.
The disciples, “gathered together from all the ends of the earth,” surround her in an attitude of grief and lament.
Behind the bier on which she is laid there stands her glorified Son, holding in His arms a child clothed in radiant white garments, an image of His Mother’s soul.
This is a theme of reversal. On every Orthodox iconastasis there is found a sacred image of the Mother of God, holding in her arms her newborn child, the God-Man who “took flesh” in order to save and sanctify a fallen, sinful, broken world.
Here, in the icon of the Dormition, the Son embraces and offers to that world His Holy Mother, as she did Him at the time of His birth.
At her falling asleep He receives her soul, her life, in order to exalt it in Himself and with Himself, to the glory, beauty and joy of eternal life.
In many Orthodox icons, however, this primary image is complemented by another:
The depiction of the Mother of God ascending to heaven, accompanied by a host of angels. We find this double motif especially in post-byzantine icons such as the koimesis (Dormition) of the Koutloumousiou monastery of Mount Athos, dated from around 1657.
(Vladimir Lossky notes other such representations in his commentary on the Dormition,
The Meaning of Icons, Boston, 1969, p. 215.)
Should we conclude that this dual theme, depicting both the Dormition and the Assumption of the Mother of God, is simply the result of Western influence?
In fact, whether we label it the “Assumption” or the “Ascension” of the Theotokos, this image complements that of the koimesis in a way that is in perfect accord with Orthodox theology.
Just as Christ died and lay in the tomb, to be resurrected and exalted into heaven, so His Holy Mother “falls asleep,” to be raised up by her Son and exalted with Him into heaven.
By His Resurrection and Ascension, He provides the means by which the “Mother of Life,” together with all those who dwell in Him, can be raised from death and exalted to transcendent Life.
If we understand the “Assumption” of the Mother of God in the light of the Ascension of her divine Son, then we can appreciate the dual depiction of Dormition and Ascension found in many of our Orthodox icons.
The Holy Mother of God, the Theotokos or “God-bearer,” is the first fruits of the eschatological fulfillment that will bring all of God’s creative and redeeming work to a close.
She is the vessel in which the Second Person of the Holy Trinity “took flesh” and became (a) man, in order to bestow salvation on the human race.
Her womb, “more spacious than the heavens,” contained the uncontainable One.
He drew his human existence from her, and she accompanied Him with love and prayer throughout the time of His earthly ministry, even to the foot of the Cross.
She shared His suffering to the full, bearing His crucifixion and death in the depths of her soul.
Accordingly, she is the perfect image of the Church, the eternal communion of all those who live and die in Christ.
They, like her, will be raised in Him and exalted to the same glory to which He raised and transformed their fallen human nature.
She is thus a forerunner of their salvation, a prophetic image of the glorified life that awaits all those who bear Christ in the inner depths of their being, as she bore Him within the depths of her womb.
Yet she is more than this. She is not only a model of the common destiny of Christian people.
She also accompanies them at every step of their journey, offering them—offering us—her incessant prayer and love. In her falling asleep and in her exaltation to heaven, she “did not forsake the world,”
But remains, as the liturgical hymns of the feast proclaim, the Mother of Life, who is “constant in prayer” and “our firm hope,” who by her prayers “delivers our souls from death!”
In the Orthodox tradition we are usually very careful to distinguish between the “Dormition” of the Mother of God and her “Assumption” into heaven.
The former, we feel, is properly Orthodox, while the latter strikes us as a purely Western designation, derived from a Roman Catholic “misunderstanding” of the meaning of this feast, celebrated universally on August 15.
It is true that some very genuine yet misguided interpretations of Mary’s death and exaltation can be found both in Catholic spiritual writings and in contemporary Western icons:
A tendency, for example, to exalt the Holy Virgin to a level of “divinity” that effectively erases the crucial and absolute distinction between human and divine life.
Orthodox theologians will insist that the “deification” (theôsis) known by the Mother of God in no way involves an ontological transformation of her being from created humanity to divinity.
She was and will always remain a human creature:
The most exalted of all those who bear God’s image, yet always a human being, whose glory appears in her humility, her simple desire to “let it be” according to the divine will.
Traditional Orthodox icons of her “falling asleep,”
Therefore, focus especially on her death and entombment.
The disciples, “gathered together from all the ends of the earth,” surround her in an attitude of grief and lament.
Behind the bier on which she is laid there stands her glorified Son, holding in His arms a child clothed in radiant white garments, an image of His Mother’s soul.
This is a theme of reversal. On every Orthodox iconastasis there is found a sacred image of the Mother of God, holding in her arms her newborn child, the God-Man who “took flesh” in order to save and sanctify a fallen, sinful, broken world.
Here, in the icon of the Dormition, the Son embraces and offers to that world His Holy Mother, as she did Him at the time of His birth.
At her falling asleep He receives her soul, her life, in order to exalt it in Himself and with Himself, to the glory, beauty and joy of eternal life.
In many Orthodox icons, however, this primary image is complemented by another:
The depiction of the Mother of God ascending to heaven, accompanied by a host of angels. We find this double motif especially in post-byzantine icons such as the koimesis (Dormition) of the Koutloumousiou monastery of Mount Athos, dated from around 1657.
(Vladimir Lossky notes other such representations in his commentary on the Dormition,
The Meaning of Icons, Boston, 1969, p. 215.)
Should we conclude that this dual theme, depicting both the Dormition and the Assumption of the Mother of God, is simply the result of Western influence?
In fact, whether we label it the “Assumption” or the “Ascension” of the Theotokos, this image complements that of the koimesis in a way that is in perfect accord with Orthodox theology.
Just as Christ died and lay in the tomb, to be resurrected and exalted into heaven, so His Holy Mother “falls asleep,” to be raised up by her Son and exalted with Him into heaven.
By His Resurrection and Ascension, He provides the means by which the “Mother of Life,” together with all those who dwell in Him, can be raised from death and exalted to transcendent Life.
If we understand the “Assumption” of the Mother of God in the light of the Ascension of her divine Son, then we can appreciate the dual depiction of Dormition and Ascension found in many of our Orthodox icons.
The Holy Mother of God, the Theotokos or “God-bearer,” is the first fruits of the eschatological fulfillment that will bring all of God’s creative and redeeming work to a close.
She is the vessel in which the Second Person of the Holy Trinity “took flesh” and became (a) man, in order to bestow salvation on the human race.
Her womb, “more spacious than the heavens,” contained the uncontainable One.
He drew his human existence from her, and she accompanied Him with love and prayer throughout the time of His earthly ministry, even to the foot of the Cross.
She shared His suffering to the full, bearing His crucifixion and death in the depths of her soul.
Accordingly, she is the perfect image of the Church, the eternal communion of all those who live and die in Christ.
They, like her, will be raised in Him and exalted to the same glory to which He raised and transformed their fallen human nature.
She is thus a forerunner of their salvation, a prophetic image of the glorified life that awaits all those who bear Christ in the inner depths of their being, as she bore Him within the depths of her womb.
Yet she is more than this. She is not only a model of the common destiny of Christian people.
She also accompanies them at every step of their journey, offering them—offering us—her incessant prayer and love. In her falling asleep and in her exaltation to heaven, she “did not forsake the world,”
But remains, as the liturgical hymns of the feast proclaim, the Mother of Life, who is “constant in prayer” and “our firm hope,” who by her prayers “delivers our souls from death!”
Dec 11, 2018 11:06:23 #
Mary was NOT the mother of God she was the mother of Jesus. Huge difference.
Christ existed before Mary and is throughout the Old Testament and it would have been impossible for Mary to give birth to God who already existed. The bible also never refers to Mary as the mother of God.
Christ existed before Mary and is throughout the Old Testament and it would have been impossible for Mary to give birth to God who already existed. The bible also never refers to Mary as the mother of God.
Dec 11, 2018 11:47:17 #
Rose42 wrote:
Mary was NOT the mother of God she was the mother of Jesus. Huge difference.
Christ existed before Mary and is throughout the Old Testament and it would have been impossible for Mary to give birth to God who already existed. The bible also never refers to Mary as the mother of God.
Christ existed before Mary and is throughout the Old Testament and it would have been impossible for Mary to give birth to God who already existed. The bible also never refers to Mary as the mother of God.
Spot on and Amen and Amen that was just to upset Doc110. You are so true it is amazing that the Roman Catholic Church even believes this garbage they are so gullible it isn't even funny.
Dec 11, 2018 12:17:17 #
Rose42,
Now you really look like a Religious ignorant simpleton.
Jesus Christ in the Bible is God. ergo, Mary is the Birth Mother of God incarnate . . .
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.”
20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
Luke 22:66-23:25 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Jesus before the Sanhedrin,
Luke 22:66-23:25
66 When it was day, the [a]Council of elders of the people assembled, both chief priests and scribes, and they led Him away to their council chamber, saying,
67 “If You are the [b]Christ, tell us.” But He said to them, “If I tell you, you will not believe;
68 and if I ask a question, you will not answer.
69 But from now on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”
70 And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “[c]
Yes, I am.”
71 Then they said, “What further need do we have of testimony? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth.”
Do you see your inaccurate and false distinction you use in your comments . .
Try using some logic and common-sense Rose in stead of your knee-jerk protestant inept theology.
There is the distinction of the Catholic Church and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
1. Catholics also follow the teachings of Jesus Christ but do so through the church, whom they consider as the path to Jesus. Interpret
They believe in the special authority of the Pope which other Protestant Christians may not believe in.
Whereas Protestant Christians are free to accept or reject individual teachings and interpretations of the bible. e.g. Sola Scriptura "the Bible Alone"
A man-Made doctrine by Martin Luther and theology that gives the Protestant Christian the individual biblical right to self-Interpret the Bible with out Church authority.
Thus making 30,000 self-Interpreting little mini-Popes to pick and choose their own Church authorities.
Prayer for all Believers
20 I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message,
21 That all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—
John 17:20-22
We, Though Many, Are One Body in Christ
Romans 12:1–8
4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function,
5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them:
The Return of the Lord
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17 After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.…
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
John 17:23
I in them and You in Me--that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.
1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit.
1 John 1:3
We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And this fellowship of ours is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.
You rose42 follow your own protestant (Dead Theology doctrines)
Jesus Christ said that, "We are to remain as One." A command . . .
Sacred Tradition, or Holy Tradition, is a theological term used in Catholic Christian traditions, primarily those claiming apostolic succession such as the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian, and Anglican traditions, to refer to the foundation of the doctrinal and spiritual authority of the Christian.
Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition have much in common.
Besides forming the content of Divine Revelation, they form what we call a single Sacred Deposit of Faith.
It is called sacred because it comes from God.
It is called a deposit because it has been left to us by Christ.
The Apostolic Tradition Catholic Church Order, is an early Christian treatise which belongs to genre of the Church Orders.
It has been described as of "incomparable importance as a source of information about church life and liturgy in the third century".
Definition of deposit of faith.
The body of revealed truth in the Scriptures and tradition by the Roman Catholic Church for the belief of the faithful.
The Bible, is collection of books accepted as holy scripture especially the books of the Bible recognized by any Christian church as genuine and inspired.
Type of: religious text, religious writing, sacred text, sacred writing that is venerated for the worship of Jesus Christ.
Sacred tradition. ...
The word "tradition" is taken from the Latin trado, tradere, meaning "to hand over, to deliver, to bequeath".
The teachings of Jesus Christ and the holy Apostles are preserved in writing in the Scriptures as well as word of mouth and are handed on.
Apostolic Catholic Church ... The term "Apostolic" represents the belief that it follows the teachings of the twelve apostles who followed Christ.
Roman Catholicism.
Roman Catholicism comprises the beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church. It stands under the authority of the bishop of Rome, the pope, and is led by him and bishops who are held to be, through ordination, successors of Peter and the apostles.
According to Catholic teaching, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ.
The New Testament records Jesus' activities and teaching, his appointment of the twelve Apostles, and his instructions to them to continue his work.
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven...
Matthew 16:18
And that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:15-17
It is ironic that Timothy is told: "continue in the things you have learned ...Knowing from whom you have learned them." This verse strongly suggests Apostolic Tradition.
In the same letter, Timothy is informed on how to pass on Christ's teachings:
2 Timothy 3:14
Things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, these entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also.
2 Tim 2:2
St. Paul actually commands the Thessalonians Christians; To hold fast to the Traditions taught by the Apostles, both oral and written:
So then brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
2 Thessalonians 2:15; see 1 Corinthians 11:2
Jesus in Mark 7:5-13 or Matt. 15:1-9
Does not condemn all traditions but those corrupted by the Pharisees.
Unlike the human traditions of the Pharisees, Apostolic Tradition is God's Word spoken through the Apostles, not recorded in the Bible.
The Church as promised by Christ (Matt 16:18-19, see front panel; Matt 18:17-18)
Preserves and teaches the Apostolic Tradition.
This Church is the pillar and support of the truth, as is written:
You may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
1 Timothy 3:15, see Ephesians 2:19-21
Another function of the Church is to explain passages in the Bible.
St. Peter warns about teachings in Scripture that are difficult to understand:
as also in all his (St. Paul's) letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
2 Pet 3:15-16
According to the Bible, the disciples had to explain the Scriptures.
An example is St. Philip explaining the Book of Isaiah to the Ethiopian eunuch in.
Acts 8:30-31.
Also this function of the Church includes interpreting the Bible:
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation;
For no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
2 Pet 1:20-21
St. Peter in this passage warns us not to personally interpret God's message (prophecy) in Scripture.
The Church being "men moved by the Holy Spirit" can only rightfully serve at this capacity.
Even though the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, it is not the only guiding rule of faith.
Both the Bible and Apostolic Tradition are the Word of God.
Both are important sources for the Faith.
The Catholic Church being the Church founded by Christ preserves both from corruption and uses both to teach God's Word with guidance from the Holy Spirit.
Matt 28:16-20; John 16:12-15
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.
18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…
Matthew 5:17-18
John says in Apocalypse.
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Revelation 21:5-8
John also says in Apocalypse.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Revelations 22:16-20
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
You can choose to accept and follow your own Man-Made Bible doctrine commands . . . your church, the Berean Church is a dead religion . . .
You're choose to follow a dead Man-Made Bible doctrine commands and not follow Jesus Christ's Churches commands precepts and doctrines.
May God the Lord be merciful on your everlasting soul on Judgement day.
Doc110
Now you really look like a Religious ignorant simpleton.
Jesus Christ in the Bible is God. ergo, Mary is the Birth Mother of God incarnate . . .
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.”
20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
Luke 22:66-23:25 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Jesus before the Sanhedrin,
Luke 22:66-23:25
66 When it was day, the [a]Council of elders of the people assembled, both chief priests and scribes, and they led Him away to their council chamber, saying,
67 “If You are the [b]Christ, tell us.” But He said to them, “If I tell you, you will not believe;
68 and if I ask a question, you will not answer.
69 But from now on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”
70 And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “[c]
Yes, I am.”
71 Then they said, “What further need do we have of testimony? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth.”
Do you see your inaccurate and false distinction you use in your comments . .
Try using some logic and common-sense Rose in stead of your knee-jerk protestant inept theology.
There is the distinction of the Catholic Church and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
1. Catholics also follow the teachings of Jesus Christ but do so through the church, whom they consider as the path to Jesus. Interpret
They believe in the special authority of the Pope which other Protestant Christians may not believe in.
Whereas Protestant Christians are free to accept or reject individual teachings and interpretations of the bible. e.g. Sola Scriptura "the Bible Alone"
A man-Made doctrine by Martin Luther and theology that gives the Protestant Christian the individual biblical right to self-Interpret the Bible with out Church authority.
Thus making 30,000 self-Interpreting little mini-Popes to pick and choose their own Church authorities.
Prayer for all Believers
20 I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message,
21 That all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—
John 17:20-22
We, Though Many, Are One Body in Christ
Romans 12:1–8
4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function,
5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them:
The Return of the Lord
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17 After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.…
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
John 17:23
I in them and You in Me--that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.
1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit.
1 John 1:3
We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And this fellowship of ours is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.
You rose42 follow your own protestant (Dead Theology doctrines)
Jesus Christ said that, "We are to remain as One." A command . . .
Sacred Tradition, or Holy Tradition, is a theological term used in Catholic Christian traditions, primarily those claiming apostolic succession such as the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian, and Anglican traditions, to refer to the foundation of the doctrinal and spiritual authority of the Christian.
Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition have much in common.
Besides forming the content of Divine Revelation, they form what we call a single Sacred Deposit of Faith.
It is called sacred because it comes from God.
It is called a deposit because it has been left to us by Christ.
The Apostolic Tradition Catholic Church Order, is an early Christian treatise which belongs to genre of the Church Orders.
It has been described as of "incomparable importance as a source of information about church life and liturgy in the third century".
Definition of deposit of faith.
The body of revealed truth in the Scriptures and tradition by the Roman Catholic Church for the belief of the faithful.
The Bible, is collection of books accepted as holy scripture especially the books of the Bible recognized by any Christian church as genuine and inspired.
Type of: religious text, religious writing, sacred text, sacred writing that is venerated for the worship of Jesus Christ.
Sacred tradition. ...
The word "tradition" is taken from the Latin trado, tradere, meaning "to hand over, to deliver, to bequeath".
The teachings of Jesus Christ and the holy Apostles are preserved in writing in the Scriptures as well as word of mouth and are handed on.
Apostolic Catholic Church ... The term "Apostolic" represents the belief that it follows the teachings of the twelve apostles who followed Christ.
Roman Catholicism.
Roman Catholicism comprises the beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church. It stands under the authority of the bishop of Rome, the pope, and is led by him and bishops who are held to be, through ordination, successors of Peter and the apostles.
According to Catholic teaching, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ.
The New Testament records Jesus' activities and teaching, his appointment of the twelve Apostles, and his instructions to them to continue his work.
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven...
Matthew 16:18
And that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:15-17
It is ironic that Timothy is told: "continue in the things you have learned ...Knowing from whom you have learned them." This verse strongly suggests Apostolic Tradition.
In the same letter, Timothy is informed on how to pass on Christ's teachings:
2 Timothy 3:14
Things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, these entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also.
2 Tim 2:2
St. Paul actually commands the Thessalonians Christians; To hold fast to the Traditions taught by the Apostles, both oral and written:
So then brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
2 Thessalonians 2:15; see 1 Corinthians 11:2
Jesus in Mark 7:5-13 or Matt. 15:1-9
Does not condemn all traditions but those corrupted by the Pharisees.
Unlike the human traditions of the Pharisees, Apostolic Tradition is God's Word spoken through the Apostles, not recorded in the Bible.
The Church as promised by Christ (Matt 16:18-19, see front panel; Matt 18:17-18)
Preserves and teaches the Apostolic Tradition.
This Church is the pillar and support of the truth, as is written:
You may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
1 Timothy 3:15, see Ephesians 2:19-21
Another function of the Church is to explain passages in the Bible.
St. Peter warns about teachings in Scripture that are difficult to understand:
as also in all his (St. Paul's) letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
2 Pet 3:15-16
According to the Bible, the disciples had to explain the Scriptures.
An example is St. Philip explaining the Book of Isaiah to the Ethiopian eunuch in.
Acts 8:30-31.
Also this function of the Church includes interpreting the Bible:
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation;
For no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
2 Pet 1:20-21
St. Peter in this passage warns us not to personally interpret God's message (prophecy) in Scripture.
The Church being "men moved by the Holy Spirit" can only rightfully serve at this capacity.
Even though the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, it is not the only guiding rule of faith.
Both the Bible and Apostolic Tradition are the Word of God.
Both are important sources for the Faith.
The Catholic Church being the Church founded by Christ preserves both from corruption and uses both to teach God's Word with guidance from the Holy Spirit.
Matt 28:16-20; John 16:12-15
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.
18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…
Matthew 5:17-18
John says in Apocalypse.
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Revelation 21:5-8
John also says in Apocalypse.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Revelations 22:16-20
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
You can choose to accept and follow your own Man-Made Bible doctrine commands . . . your church, the Berean Church is a dead religion . . .
You're choose to follow a dead Man-Made Bible doctrine commands and not follow Jesus Christ's Churches commands precepts and doctrines.
May God the Lord be merciful on your everlasting soul on Judgement day.
Doc110
Rose42 wrote:
Mary was NOT the mother of God she was the mother of Jesus. Huge difference.
Christ existed before Mary and is throughout the Old Testament and it would have been impossible for Mary to give birth to God who already existed. The bible also never refers to Mary as the mother of God.
Mary was NOT the mother of God she was the mother of Jesus. Huge difference.
Christ existed before Mary and is throughout the Old Testament and it would have been impossible for Mary to give birth to God who already existed. The bible also never refers to Mary as the mother of God.
Dec 11, 2018 12:20:06 #
Balmer the Lout the simpleton, the ignorant the boot licking sycophant.
Didn't upset me. . .
I just have to refute your dead AOG church . . .
Doc110
Didn't upset me. . .
I just have to refute your dead AOG church . . .
Doc110
bahmer wrote:
Spot on and Amen and Amen that was just to upset Doc110.
You are so true it is amazing that the Roman Catholic Church even believes this garbage they are so gullible it isn't even funny.
Spot on and Amen and Amen that was just to upset Doc110.
You are so true it is amazing that the Roman Catholic Church even believes this garbage they are so gullible it isn't even funny.
Dec 11, 2018 12:26:00 #
Doc110 wrote:
Balmer the Lout the simpleton, the ignorant the boot licking sycophant.
Didn't upset me. . .
I just have to refute your dead AOG church . . .
Doc110
Didn't upset me. . .
I just have to refute your dead AOG church . . .
Doc110
You won't so don't worry.
I must say that your avatar is really descriptive of you and all of the other Roman Catholic followers a dumb rodent pretending to be holy and in prayer as if a rodent would even know truth or prayer. The best a rodent could do is to be trained to do stupid tricks an look like it was even remotely intelligent when all the world knows that they are to stupid to be able do any of those things. That avatar depicts you and Radiance3 to a T.
Dec 11, 2018 12:46:10 #
bahmer wrote:
You won't so don't worry.
I must say that your avatar is really descriptive of you and all of the other Roman Catholic followers a dumb rodent pretending to be holy and in prayer as if a rodent would even know truth or prayer. The best a rodent could do is to be trained to do stupid tricks an look like it was even remotely intelligent when all the world knows that they are to stupid to be able do any of those things. That avatar depicts you and Radiance3 to a T.
I must say that your avatar is really descriptive of you and all of the other Roman Catholic followers a dumb rodent pretending to be holy and in prayer as if a rodent would even know truth or prayer. The best a rodent could do is to be trained to do stupid tricks an look like it was even remotely intelligent when all the world knows that they are to stupid to be able do any of those things. That avatar depicts you and Radiance3 to a T.
I don't think Doc is dumb, he is just firmly locked in to his belief system as are Radiance and padre. All we can do is hope and pray they stop resisting the Holy Spirit. The older you get the harder it is to yield. For priests it has to be especially hard.
Dec 11, 2018 12:50:44 #
Rose42 wrote:
I don't think Doc is dumb, he is just firmly locked in to his belief system as are Radiance and padre. All we can do is hope and pray they stop resisting the Holy Spirit. The older you get the harder it is to yield. For priests it has to be especially hard.
You are right as always I was retaliating against Doc110 and I should be forgiving and let him have his little fun at calling me names as well as Radiance3. I stand corrected and will refrain from going to the lows that they are now inhabiting.
Dec 11, 2018 13:01:24 #
bahmer wrote:
You are right as always I was retaliating against Doc110 and I should be forgiving and let him have his little fun at calling me names as well as Radiance3. I stand corrected and will refrain from going to the lows that they are now inhabiting.
It's our wicked nature to blame!
As time passes I find myself identifying ever more with Paul in Romans 7 -"15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."
Dec 11, 2018 13:13:48 #
bahmer,
The Only Protestant Ignorant sycophant RAT is You.
You worship a dead man-Made protestant religion . . .
I must say you are an ignorant belligerent simpleton who knows nothing biblical and is blind scripturally.
My God have pity on your soul on Judgement day, for your hate, prejudices and inability to cease being biblical blind . . .
Merry Christmas
Doc110
The Only Protestant Ignorant sycophant RAT is You.
You worship a dead man-Made protestant religion . . .
I must say you are an ignorant belligerent simpleton who knows nothing biblical and is blind scripturally.
My God have pity on your soul on Judgement day, for your hate, prejudices and inability to cease being biblical blind . . .
Merry Christmas
Doc110
bahmer wrote:
You won't so don't worry.
I must say that your avatar is really descriptive of you and all of the other Roman Catholic followers a dumb rodent pretending to be holy and in prayer as if a rodent would even know truth or prayer.
The best a rodent could do is to be trained to do stupid tricks an look like it was even remotely intelligent when all the world knows that they are to stupid to be able do any of those things. That avatar depicts you and Radiance3 to a T.
You won't so don't worry.
I must say that your avatar is really descriptive of you and all of the other Roman Catholic followers a dumb rodent pretending to be holy and in prayer as if a rodent would even know truth or prayer.
The best a rodent could do is to be trained to do stupid tricks an look like it was even remotely intelligent when all the world knows that they are to stupid to be able do any of those things. That avatar depicts you and Radiance3 to a T.
Dec 11, 2018 13:14:14 #
Rose42 wrote:
It's our wicked nature to blame! img src="https:/... (show quote)
Amen and Amen we all can relate to that only to well. It can be seen in my posts from time to time as well where I give into the desires of the flesh which is easy to do when one is being attacked. I just sent out the study on the Rapture posted by Mwdegutis on the thread Andy Woods revisiting the reformation.
Dec 11, 2018 13:17:04 #
rose42,
Live in protestant biblical doubt in a man-Made protestant dead religion.
I follow the One True Catholic Church that Jesus founded and his Apostles who have taught and instructed his Church to the ends of the world.
Doc110
Live in protestant biblical doubt in a man-Made protestant dead religion.
I follow the One True Catholic Church that Jesus founded and his Apostles who have taught and instructed his Church to the ends of the world.
Doc110
Rose42 wrote:
br br It's our wicked nature to blame! img src=... (show quote)
Dec 11, 2018 13:17:20 #
bahmer wrote:
Amen and Amen we all can relate to that only to well. It can be seen in my posts from time to time as well where I give into the desires of the flesh which is easy to do when one is being attacked. I just sent out the study on the Rapture posted by Mwdegutis on the thread Andy Woods revisiting the reformation.
I wasn't trying to point a finger at you - I was looking in a mirror.
Dec 11, 2018 13:25:02 #
rose
Catholics follow the teachings of Jesus Christ but do so through the church, whom We consider as the path to Jesus.
We believe in the special authority of the Pope which other Protestant Christians may not believe in.
According to Roman Catholic teaching, each of the sacraments was instituted by Christ himself.
Roman Catholicism also holds that Jesus established his disciple St. Peter as the first pope of the nascent church.
Matthew 16:18
Whereas Protestant Christians are free to accept or reject individual teachings and interpretations of the bible.
Shopping Cart Protestants, who pick and chose their religious doctrine 30,000 thousand doctrines.
Martin Luther started a movement called the Reformation.
Many people sided with Luther and decided to break away from the Roman Catholic Church.
The Supreme Head of the Church of England was a title created in 1531 for King Henry VIII of England, who was responsible for the foundation of the English Protestant church that broke away from the authority of the Roman Catholic Church.
After Pope Paul III excommunicated Henry in 1538 over his divorce.
There is the death of the Protestant religion.
Doc110
Catholics follow the teachings of Jesus Christ but do so through the church, whom We consider as the path to Jesus.
We believe in the special authority of the Pope which other Protestant Christians may not believe in.
According to Roman Catholic teaching, each of the sacraments was instituted by Christ himself.
Roman Catholicism also holds that Jesus established his disciple St. Peter as the first pope of the nascent church.
Matthew 16:18
Whereas Protestant Christians are free to accept or reject individual teachings and interpretations of the bible.
Shopping Cart Protestants, who pick and chose their religious doctrine 30,000 thousand doctrines.
Martin Luther started a movement called the Reformation.
Many people sided with Luther and decided to break away from the Roman Catholic Church.
The Supreme Head of the Church of England was a title created in 1531 for King Henry VIII of England, who was responsible for the foundation of the English Protestant church that broke away from the authority of the Roman Catholic Church.
After Pope Paul III excommunicated Henry in 1538 over his divorce.
There is the death of the Protestant religion.
Doc110
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