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Andy Woods: Revisiting the Reformation
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Dec 12, 2018 11:39:43   #
Rose42
 
Radiance3 wrote:
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All of you Protestants are changing history to take over. But Christ is watching over that.

The Bible is true except you've taken away Saint Peter and the Church of Christ, the Holy Catholic Church.


Christ's church is catholic not Catholic. You should learn the difference and why popery isn't biblical. Try reading to get educated.

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Dec 12, 2018 11:46:32   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
Christ's church is catholic not Catholic. You should learn the difference and why popery isn't biblical. Try reading to get educated.


She hasn't read anything so far and I don't expect any changes from her in the foreseeable future either. Both her and Doc110 are both buried up to their eyeballs in Roman Catholic Tradition and lies. Their stories are so wild they could be written as fairy tales and be better believed as such.

Reply
Dec 12, 2018 11:49:31   #
Radiance3
 
mwdegutis wrote:
Then in 1 Cor. 15:51-53 He wrote;
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

The Greek word for mystery means secret. By saying he was going to tell them a mystery, Paul was saying he was about to reveal a secret. And here it is. When the Lord comes down to meet us in the air we’ll receive no advance notice. In one instant we’ll be going about our business here on Earth and in the next we’ll be standing in the Kingdom. It will happen so fast we won’t have time to blink our eyes. We’ll hear the Trumpet call of God and the voice of the archangel and we’ll step out of this world into the next one. As we look around we’ll realize that multitudes of believers from the Church Age have joined us. The dead will have been given new bodies and the living will have been transformed from mortal to immortal. Paul said we’ll know as we’re known (1 Cor. 13:12), so just as the Lord will recognize each of us, we’ll recognize each other. And John said that what we’ll be is not yet known, but we know that when He appears we’ll be like Him (1 John 3:2) To me that means we’ll have the same capabilities that He demonstrated after His resurrection.

Don’t confuse the trumpet we’ll hear with the 7th Trumpet of Rev. 11:15. In the first place what we’ll hear is the trumpet of God, mentioned elsewhere only in Exodus 19:13 & 19. The 7th Trumpet is blown by an angel in Heaven, announces the beginning of the Great Tribulation, and is never called the last trumpet.

As I said, the phrase Trumpet of God only appears twice in the Bible. The first one is in Exodus 19 at Mt. Sinai and the last one is in 1 Thes. 4. There are some incredible parallels between the giving of the Law and the Rapture of the Church. And as you might expect there are also some big differences. We’ll look at the similarities first.

Both are accompanied by the audible voice of God and both create a Kingdom. At Mt. Sinai the Israelites were redeemed from slavery, at the Rapture we’re redeemed from sin. They were consecrated, we’re perfected. They washed their clothes, we’re given clean clothes. God came to the Mt. top, Jesus comes to the air. At Mt. Sinai Moses and Aaron went up, at the rapture we go up. At Mt. Sinai Israel was wed to God. At the Rapture the Church is wed to Jesus. At Mt. Sinai God dwelt with Israel and at the rapture the Church will dwell with Jesus.

Since many Biblical models are necessarily incomplete, there are also some obvious differences. Only Moses and Aaron could ascend the mountain. Anyone else going up passed from life to death. At the rapture we all go up and everyone passes from death to life. God promised to dwell with Israel if they obeyed. We will dwell with Jesus because He obeyed. They changed themselves temporarily, He changes us permanently. Theirs was an event accompanied by great fear, ours is an event anticipated with great joy. After all Mt. Sinai was the presentation of God’s Law, and the Rapture is the manifestation of His grace. God blew the First Trump in Exodus 19 in preparation for the giving of the Law, and will blow the the Last Trump in 1 Thes. 4:16 to initiate the Rapture.

Rescuing The Righteous
Abraham had reminded the Lord that His character wouldn’t allow Him to judge the righteous with the wicked. Even though the negotiated requirement of 10 righteous men to spare Sodom and Gomorrah hadn’t been met, God instructed the angels to remove Lot before destroying the cities. Speaking of this Peter wrote, “If this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.” (2 Peter 2:9)

Peter wanted us to see from the example of Lot that it wasn’t an isolated incident but was meant to convey a general principle. The Greek word translated “from” in the NIV is more clearly rendered “out of” in the King James. It means away from the time and place of the event being referenced. We see a similar idea conveyed in Isaiah 57:1:

The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil.

Here the Hebrew word translated “taken away” means to gather in, receive, or remove. God’s character is such that He can’t allow the righteous to be punished with the wicked.

The 7 Churches Of Rev. 2-3
In a previous study I`ve demonstrated how the seven churches of Rev. 2-3 chronicle Church history. I showed how the first 3 churches (Ephesus, Smyrna and Pergamus) have all disappeared and the remaining 4 (Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea) are all present today. Viewed in chronological order and compared to Church history these four represent the Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical and Apostate churches of today.

In Rev. 2: 22-24 the Lord warned that some from the Church in Thyatira will face the tribulation while others will be rescued and share in rewards that are uniquely reserved for true believers, which includes the rapture. The distinction will be made on the basis of their beliefs. Those who’ve remained true to the Gospel will go while those who adhere to the Catholic church’s “Jesus plus Mary, grace plus works, and Scripture plus sacraments” doctrine will not.

In the letter to Sardis, which represents the main line denominations, Jesus warned of dead orthodoxy having only the appearance of life. “Remember what you have received and heard and obey it.” He said, “Or else you won’t know at what time I will come to you.” He was referring to the Gospel, and notice He said “to you”, not “for you”. Many in the main line denominations don’t know they need to be born again, haven’t got a clue that we’re in the end times and have never even heard of the rapture. As in Thyatira, he said there are a few in Sardis who have remained true. They’ll walk with Him for they are worthy. Once again some will be taken and some left based on what they believe.

Philadelphia is often called The Church of the Rapture because of the Lord’s promise to keep us from the hour of trial that’s going to come upon the whole world (Rev. 3:10). The Greek word translated “from” here is the same one Peter used in describing the Lord’s ability to rescue godly men from trials. Remember it means away from the time and place of the event being referenced, in this case the End Times judgments that are coming upon the whole world. Because we’ve kept His word and not denied His name, He has promised us a place in the New Jerusalem, where only those whose names have been written in the Lamb’s Book of Life can enter (Rev. 21:27). This is the Lord’s personal confirmation of a pre-trib rapture, which when John wrote this in about 95AD had been taught on Earth for nearly 50 years.

The “Church” at Laodicea is really an apostate movement, a spiritual rebellion. Although it has been around throughout the Church Age, its current prominence is a sign that the End of the Age is approaching (2 Thes. 2:3) Thinking of itself as rich and self-sufficient, it lacks the one thing money can’t buy, a Savior. He’s outside the door knocking, hoping someone will hear. There’s no promise to rescue the group, who will be spit out of his mouth, only to individuals who hear and respond.

Come Up Here!
At the beginning of Rev. 4, John was called forward to the End of the Age and up into Heaven to observe and report on events that were nearly 2000 years in his future. When he arrived at the throne of God he saw a group never before seen in any of the Bible’s pictures of God’s throne. Isaiah didn’t see them (Isaiah 6) Ezekiel didn’t see them (Ezekiel 1 & 10), and even Daniel, whose vision was oriented in the End Times only saw a vague hint in the form of plural thrones (Daniel 7:9). I’m speaking of the 24 elders sitting on thrones encircling the Throne of God (Rev. 4:4)

These 24 elders confuse some people, but they shouldn’t. Their appearance gives them away. They have thrones, so they’re rulers. They surround the Throne of God, so they’re assisting Him. They’re seated, so their work is done. They’re dressed in white, so they’re righteous. They’re wearing crowns, so they’re kings. It’s the Greek “stephanos” crown so they’re victors, overcomers. They’re called Elders, a title associated with the Church. That’s a pretty strong case for them representing the Church, and no one has ever come up with a better one.

Some try to explain the 24 thrones by saying that they belong to an unidentified group of ruling angels. But four prophets saw the throne of God and recorded their experience. Of the four, only John saw them. And note that the Church won’t receive crowns until the Bema Seat judgment that takes place after the Rapture. Is this a symbolic view of the church in Heaven before the judgments begin? It looks that way to me.

The Song Of The Redeemed
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men (us) for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them (us) to be a kingdom (kings) and priests to serve our God, and they (we) will reign on the earth.” (Rev. 5:8-10)

This is a controversial passage and taken by itself it’s difficult to understand. But even though most of the modern translations read like the one above, both the King James Version and Young’s Literal Translation put the passage in the first person plural as I’ve indicated in parentheses. The first person version helps supports the view that the 24 Elders represent the Church.

Also the Greek word for King and Kingdom is the same, differing only by gender. King is the masculine form and is the one that appears in Rev. 5:10. (Kingdom is feminine.) So the verse is more grammatically and theologically correct when it’s translated Kings and Priests, which define the Church, rather than a kingdom and priests. And there’s no other group that fits the description of verse 9. Finally, the song is more consistent with the context of the passage when it’s sung by the redeemed Church, not by a third party singing about the Church. Taken together Rev. 4-5 present a good circumstantial case for the Church being present in Heaven before the wrath of God begins in Rev. 6. As we’ve already seen, this is what the Bible has promised from the beginning.

Who's That With The Lord?
Speaking of the anti-Christ and his 10 king confederacy Rev. 17:14 says, “They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

This is an overview statement that describes the Great Tribulation, during which Satan, working through the anti-Christ, will attempt to assert his ownership claim to Planet Earth. Rev. 17:13 says these 10 kings will have only that one purpose during the time of their reign. In Rev. 3:10 Jesus called that time the hour of trial that’s coming upon the whole world. In Matt. 24:21 He called it the Great Tribulation. Rev. 17:17 says that the Lord will agree to their rule in order for them to accomplish His purpose, not theirs, and that’s to destroy the Great Prostitute. Once they’re finished with her He’ll appear to personally oversee their defeat. And guess who’ll be with Him when He returns? His called, chosen, and faithful followers. That can only be the Church, in Heaven during the Great Tribulation, and returning with Him at its end.

From Genesis to Revelation, the overwhelming weight of evidence, some circumstantial and some testimonial shows that the Lord always intended to remove the Church from Earth before the End Times Judgments and to hide us in His Father’s house until His wrath has passed by. Even so, come Lord Jesus.


By Jack Kelley
Then in 1 Cor. 15:51-53 He wrote; br Listen, I tel... (show quote)


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You mean to say that all the 900 million Protestants will be raptured, and the 1.3 billion Catholics will be left to be punished by God?

So, you now conclude that I will NOT be raptured because I don't belong to your Protestant, and I will never be.

Here are the facts: All my life I've been obedient to the will of God. I followed and obeyed Him consistently through my Catholic faith. Do you think God will not take me in?

I am confident that God loves me, as I have loved him all the years of my life.
I am perfectly happy and confident and I will continue my journey alone until I reach Christ's home. I hope to see you there.

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Dec 12, 2018 11:58:58   #
bahmer
 
Radiance3 wrote:
==================
You mean to say that all the 900 million Protestants will be raptured, and the 1.3 billion Catholics will be left to be punished by God?

So, you now conclude that I will NOT be raptured because I don't belong to your Protestant, and I will never be.

Here are the facts: All my life I've been obedient to the will of God. I followed and obeyed Him consistently through my Catholic faith. Do you think God will not take me in?

I am confident that God loves me, as I have loved him all the years of my life.
I am perfectly happy and confident and I will continue my journey alone until I reach Christ's home. I hope to see you there.
================== br You mean to say that all the... (show quote)


So by your own admission you have been following a pagan religion that is nothing but lies and falsehoods and has absolutely nothing to do with our savior and Lord the Lord Jesus Christ. You are in turn worshiping Mary and Saints and visions and prayer beads and statues and you believe in purgatory which is not in the bible nor is 90% of what the Roman Catholic Church believes in the bible but is man made and false.

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Dec 12, 2018 12:13:39   #
Radiance3
 
bahmer wrote:
So by your own admission you have been following a pagan religion that is nothing but lies and falsehoods and has absolutely nothing to do with our savior and Lord the Lord Jesus Christ. You are in turn worshiping Mary and Saints and visions and prayer beads and statues and you believe in purgatory which is not in the bible nor is 90% of what the Roman Catholic Church believes in the bible but is man made and false.

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bahmer, your brain is not welcome. I don't deal with stupid. Bye.

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Dec 12, 2018 16:07:02   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
Radiance3 wrote:
...It was only when Constantine became Emperor of Rome, when the St. Peter Basilica was built between 313 to 332 AD. Saint Constantine made the Catholic Christianity the religion of Rome.

And introduced pagan practices to it to make it palatable to the masses. A "real" Christian.

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Dec 12, 2018 17:26:26   #
Radiance3
 
mwdegutis wrote:
And introduced pagan practices to it to make it palatable to the masses. A "real" Christian.

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That is what you think to justify your claims. "Sacred Traditions" are hated and not recognized by Protestants but it is part of the Catholic Church carried forward by Saint Peter to Rome.

I am confident where I am going until I reach home to be with Jesus.

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Dec 12, 2018 19:01:11   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
Christ's church is catholic not Catholic. You should learn the difference and why popery isn't biblical. Try reading to get educated.


===========
You Protestants have changed the Capital letter to a lower case, to change the meaning of it. Thus a false and falsified claim again.

You took that from the IT. I read it from there.
You copied and pasted what ever you've posted here at OPP.

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Dec 12, 2018 19:07:40   #
Rose42
 
Radiance3 wrote:
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You Protestants have changed the Capital letter to a lower case, to change the meaning of it. Thus a false and falsified claim again.

You took that from the IT. I read it from there.
You copied and pasted what ever you've posted here at OPP.


Wrong as always Radiance. You need to do some reading to see the truth. Catholic with a lower case c means the whole Christian body or church. The Catholic church is its own entity and separate from that.

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Dec 12, 2018 23:16:09   #
Radiance3
 
bahmer wrote:
She hasn't read anything so far and I don't expect any changes from her in the foreseeable future either. Both her and Doc110 are both buried up to their eyeballs in Roman Catholic Tradition and lies. Their stories are so wild they could be written as fairy tales and be better believed as such.

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The products of your huge bald head are nothing but dumb cheering squad of your troop. With your empty brain, you are not worth my time bahmer

Reply
Dec 12, 2018 23:18:00   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
Wrong as always Radiance. You need to do some reading to see the truth. Catholic with a lower case c means the whole Christian body or church. The Catholic church is its own entity and separate from that.

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No wonder you are so lost because the articles you are reading are lies and falsified. There are no truth to it. It's objectives are to destroy the true Catholic Church of Christ. Admit that yours is man-made.

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Dec 12, 2018 23:22:09   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
Wrong as always Radiance. You need to do some reading to see the truth. Catholic with a lower case c means the whole Christian body or church. The Catholic church is its own entity and separate from that.

===============
How else would you say that. You justified your lies and false claims. That is where you stand.
You want to change the meaning that Christ had placed in His Church? You want to by-pass His authority. You Protestants have been doing that. Not new but being practiced all the time.

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Dec 13, 2018 00:40:37   #
Radiance3
 
mwdegutis wrote:
And introduced pagan practices to it to make it palatable to the masses. A "real" Christian.

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"palatable", what a word. Sounds like food or drink.
Sacred Traditions you equate it with pagan practices, have been part of the Catholic teachings and have been practiced by the Apostles for 1,987 years. Your 500-year old Scriptura does not have that, because you don't have the complete history of the Gospel of Christ.

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Dec 13, 2018 00:45:51   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
Christ's church is catholic not Catholic. You should learn the difference and why popery isn't biblical. Try reading to get educated.

==========
Reading your Sola Scriptura is not my priority. Your Protestant sect reading the Scriptura does make all of you filled with hatred and lies. Why is that? Your education standards behave like wild animals filled with anger and hatred. I would not welcome that to my home.

I have my own Catholic Bible I read it every day, where there is love to one another as commanded by Christ.

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Dec 13, 2018 05:56:50   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
Venus3 wrote:
...I have my own Catholic Bible I read it every day, where there is love to one another as commanded by Christ.

Tell me Venus...is this how you "love one another as commanded by Christ?"
Venus3 wrote:
The products of your huge bald head are nothing but dumb cheering squad of your troop. With your empty brain, you are not worth my time bahmer

Reply
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