Protestants: Are They Christians, Heretics, or Both ?
Dec 2, 2018 12:37:40 #
11/14/2016 Protestants: Are They Christians, Heretics, or Both ? (Part 1)
Dave Armstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/author/davearmstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2016/11/protestants-christians-heretics-or-both.html
Original title: How Protestants Can be Brethren in Christ (Christians) and [Partial] Heretics at the Same Time, According to Trent
There are serious heretics (like Arius, who denied the Trinity) and partial heretics (like Protestants).
“Heresy” literally means “pick and choose.”
But the latter can be and are called “brothers in Christ” by the Church, because of their trinitarian baptism, which incorporates them into the Church (or does that have to be defended, too?).
They are Christians; in Christ.
Nor is this notion a novel thing.
It goes back to the Augustine-Donatist controversy, where Augustine and the Church decided against rebaptism, and Aquinas, and Trent.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/donatism
Canon IV on Baptism, Council of Trent, recognizes as “true baptism” that “which is even given by heretics in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.”
www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch7.htm
That ain’t modernist garbage (that many folks falsely superimpose onto the orthodox Vatican II); it’s Trent!
Thus, “heretics” (in some respects) are still brothers in Christ due (primarily, but not exclusively) to their valid baptisms, which is the entrance rite into the Church and Body of Christ.
Hence, “separated brethren”:
Which was also in use at least as far back as Leo XIII, and wasn’t new, either.
Subjectively, current Protestants aren’t heretics, but objectively, they hold to many heretical tenets.
Dr. Edwin Tait: Anglican church historian, correctly observed:
“Protestantism is, by Catholic standards, heretical.”
Thus, Trent anathematizes, e.g., those who deny that baptism is necessary for salvation (Canon V on Baptism), and who deny that it regenerates, etc.
Those who believe such things are heretics insofar as they are in error, in that respect.
This would include many Protestants who think baptism is merely symbolic (Baptists, most pentecostals, a good number of evangelicals, Anabaptists, Mennonites, etc.).
So they are “partial heretics” in that respect and many others, from a Catholic perspective, yet still Christians because they have been validly baptized, despite their wrong interpretation of the meaning and essential nature of baptism.
Someone asked: “If I interpret this correctly, a person is a Christian merely on the acceptance of Trinitarian Baptism or belief of the dogma of the Trinity?”
He is spiritually through baptism (regeneration) and theologically by virtue of accepting essential Christian theology (agreed upon by all mainstream Christian groups), including trinitarianism.
Neither Unitarians, Mormons, nor Jehovah’s Witnesses possess valid baptism, and all deny the Trinity, so they are non-Christian on both required counts.
Anyone can name the name of Jesus (even the demons do); unless it is tied to some concrete belief system, that means little in and of itself.
Jesus talks about those who say “Lord, Lord” but do not follow His commands, and they are damned in the end.
There is such a thing as a valid baptism given by a heretic.
Protestants remain genuine Christians, who also have various heretical elements.
Protestants are Christians, according to both Trent and Vatican II.
One who denies that denies both those councils.
It’s as simple as that.
An anti-Protestantism that would deny Christian status to our separated brethren, is anti-Trent and radically against the Mind of the Church and true ecumenism.
“Theological Christian” (i.e., doctrinally so), comes from among other things, Vatican II:
Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis Redintegratio). "Restoration of unity"
www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html
I’m sure the Catechism would also speak to this.
It remains true, as always, that if a Protestant truly knows that Catholicism is true and refuses to accept it, he is in danger of damnation.
But the key is whether he really “knows” it or not.
Only God knows all those factors.
Our job is to share and defend what we know as Catholics. God takes care of grace and all the rest.
Here are some solid definitions from Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J.:
https://hardonsj.org/publications/
Modern Catholic Dictionary:
www.therealpresence.org/dictionary/adict.htm
HERESY
Commonly refers to a doctrinal belief held in opposition to the recognized standards of an established system of thought.
Theologically it means an opinion at variance with the authorized teachings of any church, notably the Christian, and especially when this promotes separation from the main body of faithful believers.
In the Roman Catholic Church, heresy has a very specific meaning.
Anyone who, after receiving baptism, while remaining nominally a Christian, pertinaciously denies or doubts any of the truths that must be believed with divine and Catholic faith is considered a heretic.
Accordingly four elements must be verified to constitute formal heresy;
Previous valid baptism, which need not have been in the Catholic Church;
External profession of still being a Christian, otherwise a person becomes an apostate;
c. Outright denial or positive doubt regarding a truth that the Catholic
Church has actually proposed as revealed by God;
d. And the disbelief must be morally culpable, where a nominal Christian
refuses to accept what he knows is a doctrinal imperative.
Objectively, therefore, to become a heretic in the strict canonical sense and be excommunicated from the faithful.
One must deny or question a truth that is taught not merely on the authority of the Church but on the word of God revealed in the Scriptures or sacred tradition.
Subjectively a person must recognize his obligation to believe.
If he acts in good faith, as with most persons brought up in non-Catholic surroundings, the heresy is only material and implies neither guilt nor sin against faith. (Etym. Latin haeresis, from the Greek hairesis, a taking, choice, sect, heresy.)
HERETIC
A person professing heresy.
Ecclesiastical law distinguishes between a formal heretic, as one who is sinfully culpable, and a material heretic, who is not morally guilty for professing what may be objectively heretical doctrine.
APOSTASY
The total rejection by a baptized person of the Christian faith he once professed.
The term is also applied in a technical sense to “apostates from religious life,” who without authorization leave a religious institute after perpetual vows with no intention of returning.
(Etym. Latin apostasia, falling away or separation from God; from Greek apostasis, revolt, literally, a standing-off.)
APOSTASY IN FAITH
The complete abandonment of the Christian religion and not merely a denial of some article of the creed.
Since apostolic times, it was classified among the major crimes, along with murder and adultery, whose remission in the sacrament of penance carried severe censures and, among certain rigorists, even remission of the sin was denied.
St. Cyprian (d. 258), Bishop of Carthage, defended the Church’s right to remit apostasy before the hour of death, and the practice was supported by Pope Cornelius (d. 253).
Under the Christian Roman Empire, apostates were punished by deprivation of civil rights, including the power to bequeath or inherit property.
During the late Middle Ages, Christian who apostatized were subject to trial and punishment by the Inquisition.
The code of canon law of 1918
www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM
Declared that apostates from the faith (as also heretics and schismatics) incur ipso facto excommunication, are deprived, after warning, of any benefice, dignity, pension, office, or any position they may have in the Church, and are declared under infamy.
After a second warning, clerics are to be deposed, and members of a religious community automatically dismissed.
(End Part 1)
Dave Armstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/author/davearmstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2016/11/protestants-christians-heretics-or-both.html
Original title: How Protestants Can be Brethren in Christ (Christians) and [Partial] Heretics at the Same Time, According to Trent
There are serious heretics (like Arius, who denied the Trinity) and partial heretics (like Protestants).
“Heresy” literally means “pick and choose.”
But the latter can be and are called “brothers in Christ” by the Church, because of their trinitarian baptism, which incorporates them into the Church (or does that have to be defended, too?).
They are Christians; in Christ.
Nor is this notion a novel thing.
It goes back to the Augustine-Donatist controversy, where Augustine and the Church decided against rebaptism, and Aquinas, and Trent.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/donatism
Canon IV on Baptism, Council of Trent, recognizes as “true baptism” that “which is even given by heretics in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.”
www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch7.htm
That ain’t modernist garbage (that many folks falsely superimpose onto the orthodox Vatican II); it’s Trent!
Thus, “heretics” (in some respects) are still brothers in Christ due (primarily, but not exclusively) to their valid baptisms, which is the entrance rite into the Church and Body of Christ.
Hence, “separated brethren”:
Which was also in use at least as far back as Leo XIII, and wasn’t new, either.
Subjectively, current Protestants aren’t heretics, but objectively, they hold to many heretical tenets.
Dr. Edwin Tait: Anglican church historian, correctly observed:
“Protestantism is, by Catholic standards, heretical.”
Thus, Trent anathematizes, e.g., those who deny that baptism is necessary for salvation (Canon V on Baptism), and who deny that it regenerates, etc.
Those who believe such things are heretics insofar as they are in error, in that respect.
This would include many Protestants who think baptism is merely symbolic (Baptists, most pentecostals, a good number of evangelicals, Anabaptists, Mennonites, etc.).
So they are “partial heretics” in that respect and many others, from a Catholic perspective, yet still Christians because they have been validly baptized, despite their wrong interpretation of the meaning and essential nature of baptism.
Someone asked: “If I interpret this correctly, a person is a Christian merely on the acceptance of Trinitarian Baptism or belief of the dogma of the Trinity?”
He is spiritually through baptism (regeneration) and theologically by virtue of accepting essential Christian theology (agreed upon by all mainstream Christian groups), including trinitarianism.
Neither Unitarians, Mormons, nor Jehovah’s Witnesses possess valid baptism, and all deny the Trinity, so they are non-Christian on both required counts.
Anyone can name the name of Jesus (even the demons do); unless it is tied to some concrete belief system, that means little in and of itself.
Jesus talks about those who say “Lord, Lord” but do not follow His commands, and they are damned in the end.
There is such a thing as a valid baptism given by a heretic.
Protestants remain genuine Christians, who also have various heretical elements.
Protestants are Christians, according to both Trent and Vatican II.
One who denies that denies both those councils.
It’s as simple as that.
An anti-Protestantism that would deny Christian status to our separated brethren, is anti-Trent and radically against the Mind of the Church and true ecumenism.
“Theological Christian” (i.e., doctrinally so), comes from among other things, Vatican II:
Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis Redintegratio). "Restoration of unity"
www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html
I’m sure the Catechism would also speak to this.
It remains true, as always, that if a Protestant truly knows that Catholicism is true and refuses to accept it, he is in danger of damnation.
But the key is whether he really “knows” it or not.
Only God knows all those factors.
Our job is to share and defend what we know as Catholics. God takes care of grace and all the rest.
Here are some solid definitions from Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J.:
https://hardonsj.org/publications/
Modern Catholic Dictionary:
www.therealpresence.org/dictionary/adict.htm
HERESY
Commonly refers to a doctrinal belief held in opposition to the recognized standards of an established system of thought.
Theologically it means an opinion at variance with the authorized teachings of any church, notably the Christian, and especially when this promotes separation from the main body of faithful believers.
In the Roman Catholic Church, heresy has a very specific meaning.
Anyone who, after receiving baptism, while remaining nominally a Christian, pertinaciously denies or doubts any of the truths that must be believed with divine and Catholic faith is considered a heretic.
Accordingly four elements must be verified to constitute formal heresy;
Previous valid baptism, which need not have been in the Catholic Church;
External profession of still being a Christian, otherwise a person becomes an apostate;
c. Outright denial or positive doubt regarding a truth that the Catholic
Church has actually proposed as revealed by God;
d. And the disbelief must be morally culpable, where a nominal Christian
refuses to accept what he knows is a doctrinal imperative.
Objectively, therefore, to become a heretic in the strict canonical sense and be excommunicated from the faithful.
One must deny or question a truth that is taught not merely on the authority of the Church but on the word of God revealed in the Scriptures or sacred tradition.
Subjectively a person must recognize his obligation to believe.
If he acts in good faith, as with most persons brought up in non-Catholic surroundings, the heresy is only material and implies neither guilt nor sin against faith. (Etym. Latin haeresis, from the Greek hairesis, a taking, choice, sect, heresy.)
HERETIC
A person professing heresy.
Ecclesiastical law distinguishes between a formal heretic, as one who is sinfully culpable, and a material heretic, who is not morally guilty for professing what may be objectively heretical doctrine.
APOSTASY
The total rejection by a baptized person of the Christian faith he once professed.
The term is also applied in a technical sense to “apostates from religious life,” who without authorization leave a religious institute after perpetual vows with no intention of returning.
(Etym. Latin apostasia, falling away or separation from God; from Greek apostasis, revolt, literally, a standing-off.)
APOSTASY IN FAITH
The complete abandonment of the Christian religion and not merely a denial of some article of the creed.
Since apostolic times, it was classified among the major crimes, along with murder and adultery, whose remission in the sacrament of penance carried severe censures and, among certain rigorists, even remission of the sin was denied.
St. Cyprian (d. 258), Bishop of Carthage, defended the Church’s right to remit apostasy before the hour of death, and the practice was supported by Pope Cornelius (d. 253).
Under the Christian Roman Empire, apostates were punished by deprivation of civil rights, including the power to bequeath or inherit property.
During the late Middle Ages, Christian who apostatized were subject to trial and punishment by the Inquisition.
The code of canon law of 1918
www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM
Declared that apostates from the faith (as also heretics and schismatics) incur ipso facto excommunication, are deprived, after warning, of any benefice, dignity, pension, office, or any position they may have in the Church, and are declared under infamy.
After a second warning, clerics are to be deposed, and members of a religious community automatically dismissed.
(End Part 1)
Dec 2, 2018 12:38:54 #
11/14/2016 Protestants: Are They Christians, Heretics, or Both ? (Part 2)
Dave Armstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/author/davearmstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2016/11/protestants-christians-heretics-or-both.html
SCHISM
A willful separation from the unity of the Christian Church. Although St. Paul used the term to condemn the factions at Corinth, these were not properly schismatical, but petty cliques that favored one or another Apostle.
A generation later Clement I reprobated the first authentic schism of which there is record.
Paul’s exhortation to the Corinthians also gives an accurate description of the concept.
“Why do we wrench and tear apart the members of Christ,” he asks, “and revolt against our own body and reach such folly as to forget that we are members of one another ?”
"Why are there quarrels and ill will and dissensions and schism and fighting among you?
Do we not have one God and one Christ, and one Spirit of grace poured out upon us?
And is there not one calling in Christ?
Why do we wrench and tear apart the members of Christ, and revolt against our own body, and reach such folly as to forget that we are members of one another?"
St. Clement Of Rome,"First Epistle To The Corinthians," c. 96 A.D.
"He, therefore, who does not assemble with the Church, has even by this displayed his pride, and he has condemned himself."
St. Ignatius of Antioch, "Epistle to the Ephesians." c. 105 A.D.
While the early Church was often plagued with heresy and schism, the exact relation between the two divisive elements was not clarified until later in the patristic age.
“By false doctrines concerning God,” declared St. Augustine, “heretics wound the faith; by sinful dissensions schismatics deviate from fraternal charity, although they believe what we believe.”
Heresy, therefore, by its nature refers to the mind and is opposed to religious belief, whereas schism is fundamentally volitional and offends against the union of Christian charity.
(Etym. Latin schisma; from Greek skhisma, a split, division, from skhizein, to tear, rend.)
SCHISMATIC
According to Church law, a schismatic is a person who, after receiving baptism and while keeping the name of Christian, pertinaciously refuses to submit to the Supreme Pontiff or refuses to associate with those who are subject to him.
The two factors, submission to the Pope and association with persons subject to him, are to be taken disjunctively.
Either resisting papal authority or refusing to participate in Catholic life and worship induces schism, even without further affiliation with another religious body.
Like heresy, schism is formal and culpable only when the obligations are fully realized.
CHRISTIAN
A person who is baptized.
A professed Christian also believes in the essentials of the Christian faith, notably in the Apostles’ Creed.
A Catholic Christian further accepts the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, participates in the Eucharistic liturgy and sacraments of Catholic Christianity, and gives allegiance to the Catholic hierarchy and especially to the Bishop of Rome.
SEPARATED BRETHREN
All Christians who are baptized and believe in Christ but are not professed Catholics.
More commonly the term is applied to Protestants.
(End Part 2)
Dave Armstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/author/davearmstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2016/11/protestants-christians-heretics-or-both.html
SCHISM
A willful separation from the unity of the Christian Church. Although St. Paul used the term to condemn the factions at Corinth, these were not properly schismatical, but petty cliques that favored one or another Apostle.
A generation later Clement I reprobated the first authentic schism of which there is record.
Paul’s exhortation to the Corinthians also gives an accurate description of the concept.
“Why do we wrench and tear apart the members of Christ,” he asks, “and revolt against our own body and reach such folly as to forget that we are members of one another ?”
"Why are there quarrels and ill will and dissensions and schism and fighting among you?
Do we not have one God and one Christ, and one Spirit of grace poured out upon us?
And is there not one calling in Christ?
Why do we wrench and tear apart the members of Christ, and revolt against our own body, and reach such folly as to forget that we are members of one another?"
St. Clement Of Rome,"First Epistle To The Corinthians," c. 96 A.D.
"He, therefore, who does not assemble with the Church, has even by this displayed his pride, and he has condemned himself."
St. Ignatius of Antioch, "Epistle to the Ephesians." c. 105 A.D.
While the early Church was often plagued with heresy and schism, the exact relation between the two divisive elements was not clarified until later in the patristic age.
“By false doctrines concerning God,” declared St. Augustine, “heretics wound the faith; by sinful dissensions schismatics deviate from fraternal charity, although they believe what we believe.”
Heresy, therefore, by its nature refers to the mind and is opposed to religious belief, whereas schism is fundamentally volitional and offends against the union of Christian charity.
(Etym. Latin schisma; from Greek skhisma, a split, division, from skhizein, to tear, rend.)
SCHISMATIC
According to Church law, a schismatic is a person who, after receiving baptism and while keeping the name of Christian, pertinaciously refuses to submit to the Supreme Pontiff or refuses to associate with those who are subject to him.
The two factors, submission to the Pope and association with persons subject to him, are to be taken disjunctively.
Either resisting papal authority or refusing to participate in Catholic life and worship induces schism, even without further affiliation with another religious body.
Like heresy, schism is formal and culpable only when the obligations are fully realized.
CHRISTIAN
A person who is baptized.
A professed Christian also believes in the essentials of the Christian faith, notably in the Apostles’ Creed.
A Catholic Christian further accepts the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, participates in the Eucharistic liturgy and sacraments of Catholic Christianity, and gives allegiance to the Catholic hierarchy and especially to the Bishop of Rome.
SEPARATED BRETHREN
All Christians who are baptized and believe in Christ but are not professed Catholics.
More commonly the term is applied to Protestants.
(End Part 2)
Dec 2, 2018 12:46:47 #
Doc110 wrote:
11/14/2016 Protestants: Are They Christians, Heret... (show quote)
Matthew 6:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Maybe you should put the word post in there as well for you Doc110. You think that you are being heard because of your many words inyour posts but they just show your lack of understanding of the scriptures is all.
Dec 2, 2018 13:48:59 #
balmer,
Let me quote you Five Bible Scriptural verse's
To you're one scriptural verse.
1. “He who hears you (Peter) hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me.”
Luke 10:16
It could not be clearer: Peter the First Pope. Cephas-Peter "the Rock" that Christ's builds his one True Church upon . . .
The Protestant who rejects the head, rejects Christ himself, and should not be granted the name Christian.
2. Christ establishes one Church with a single head:
"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Matthew 16:19
3. St. Paul is severe in his condemnation of false teachers, e.g. Protestants:
“If any man preaches any other Gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
Galatians 1: 9
In another passage he instructs Catholics to remove themselves from the bad society of non-Catholics:
4. “And we charge you, brethren, in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the Tradition which they have received of us.”
2 Thessalonians 3:6
The Apostle St. John forbade any intercourse with heretics:
5. “If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house or welcome him.”
2 John 1:10
Holy Scriptures are clear on the point that only those who belong to the one Church founded by Christ, the Catholic Church, can rightfully be considered Christians.
Doc110
Let me quote you Five Bible Scriptural verse's
To you're one scriptural verse.
1. “He who hears you (Peter) hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me.”
Luke 10:16
It could not be clearer: Peter the First Pope. Cephas-Peter "the Rock" that Christ's builds his one True Church upon . . .
The Protestant who rejects the head, rejects Christ himself, and should not be granted the name Christian.
2. Christ establishes one Church with a single head:
"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Matthew 16:19
3. St. Paul is severe in his condemnation of false teachers, e.g. Protestants:
“If any man preaches any other Gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
Galatians 1: 9
In another passage he instructs Catholics to remove themselves from the bad society of non-Catholics:
4. “And we charge you, brethren, in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the Tradition which they have received of us.”
2 Thessalonians 3:6
The Apostle St. John forbade any intercourse with heretics:
5. “If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house or welcome him.”
2 John 1:10
Holy Scriptures are clear on the point that only those who belong to the one Church founded by Christ, the Catholic Church, can rightfully be considered Christians.
Doc110
bahmer wrote:
Matthew 6:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Maybe you should put the word post in there as well for you Doc110.
You think that you are being heard because of your many words inyour posts but they just show your lack of understanding of the scriptures is all.
Matthew 6:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Maybe you should put the word post in there as well for you Doc110.
You think that you are being heard because of your many words inyour posts but they just show your lack of understanding of the scriptures is all.
Dec 2, 2018 14:08:34 #
Doc110 wrote:
balmer,
Let me quote you Five Bible Scriptural verse's
To you're one scriptural verse.
1. “He who hears you (Peter) hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me.”
Luke 10:16
Let me quote you Five Bible Scriptural verse's
To you're one scriptural verse.
1. “He who hears you (Peter) hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me.”
Luke 10:16
Another verse out of context. He wasn't speaking to Peter but the 72 that he sent out. To see that you have to start at verse 1. Whether you are intentionally lying or its a simple mistake I can't say.
Quote:
It could not be clearer: Peter the First Pope. Cephas-Peter "the Rock" that Christ's builds his one True Church upon . . .
The Protestant who rejects the head, rejects Christ himself, and should not be granted the name Christian.
The Protestant who rejects the head, rejects Christ himself, and should not be granted the name Christian.
No Doc. Peter isn't the rock. This has been proven with scripture already more than once and with numerous verses. You pin your hopes on one verse that doesn't mean what you think just as the Mormons pervert one verse to claim Jesus went to America.
Dec 2, 2018 15:01:25 #
Rose42 wrote:
No Doc. Peter isn't the rock. This has been proven with scripture already more than once and with numerous verses. You pin your hopes on one verse that doesn't mean what you think just as the Mormons pervert one verse to claim Jesus went to America.
Amen and Amen
Dec 2, 2018 21:27:16 #
Rose42,
Hey sniveling lier . . .
A person who comments on the Post threads and doesn't read the Article.
You're playing the Straw-Man Game again rose, are you this ignorant to try and play this disingenuous Protestant game.
You haven't proven compost . . . . you avoided the whole subject altogether.
That's the Straw-Man Game, rose avoidance . . . . .
You can't even state your argument, let alone read the Article.
You're a Protestant lackey want-a-be looser apologist.
Go back to your Protestant Troll home where you belong.
How disingenuous of you.
I bet you are going to try and lie your self out of this one also, like TexaCan did when she was caught in a lie.
Lier's discuss me . . . .
Confess you're sins, and do some Christian penance . . .
Doc110
Hey sniveling lier . . .
A person who comments on the Post threads and doesn't read the Article.
You're playing the Straw-Man Game again rose, are you this ignorant to try and play this disingenuous Protestant game.
You haven't proven compost . . . . you avoided the whole subject altogether.
That's the Straw-Man Game, rose avoidance . . . . .
You can't even state your argument, let alone read the Article.
You're a Protestant lackey want-a-be looser apologist.
Go back to your Protestant Troll home where you belong.
How disingenuous of you.
I bet you are going to try and lie your self out of this one also, like TexaCan did when she was caught in a lie.
Lier's discuss me . . . .
Confess you're sins, and do some Christian penance . . .
Doc110
Rose42 wrote:
No Doc. Peter isn't the rock.
This has been proven with scripture already more than once and with numerous verses. You pin your hopes on one verse that doesn't mean what you think just as the Mormons pervert one verse to claim Jesus went to America.
No Doc. Peter isn't the rock.
This has been proven with scripture already more than once and with numerous verses. You pin your hopes on one verse that doesn't mean what you think just as the Mormons pervert one verse to claim Jesus went to America.
Dec 4, 2018 00:37:53 #
Rose42 wrote:
No Doc. Peter isn't the rock. This has been proven with scripture already more than once and with numerous verses. You pin your hopes on one verse that doesn't mean what you think just as the Mormons pervert one verse to claim Jesus went to America.
=================
Your information was based on the Sola Scriptura. That does not have a complete historical records of Christ' message to the Church he created thru St. Peter. Therefore you will never reconcile all the information in your Solas versus the Bible of Christ.
That is why the Sola Scriptura was not AUTHORIZED by Christ to be used. It has different interpretations with his Gospel. Christ wants a UNIFIED interpretation of His message to His children to avoid confusions.
Currently your Sola Scriptura is getting worst, with the 47,000 denominations and interpreters misleading the people of God.
Dec 4, 2018 08:49:50 #
TexaCan
Loc: Homeward Bound!
Radiance3 wrote:
================= br Your information was based on... (show quote)
In other words, the Catholic Church wants a One World Religion........And it is to be Catholic under the rule of the Pope, quite possibly the False Profit of Revelation!
Dec 4, 2018 09:01:41 #
TexaCan wrote:
In other words, the Catholic Church wants a One World Religion........And it is to be Catholic under the rule of the Pope, quite possibly the False Profit of Revelation!
The pope could very well be the antichrist. Satan knows scripture and knows how to misapply it to fool the masses. It wouldn't surprise me if this happens.
Dec 4, 2018 10:11:42 #
TexaCan
Loc: Homeward Bound!
Rose42 wrote:
The pope could very well be the antichrist. Satan knows scripture and knows how to misapply it to fool the masses. It wouldn't surprise me if this happens.
I purchased a video on Vimeo, “Belly of the Beast”.....Antichrist’s Resurrection and Return! It is extremely informative and reveals information that I’ve not heard before. The Faul brothers, Russ Dizdar, Carl Teichrib, Ltc Robert Maginnis, William Ramsey and Tom Horn were all contributors! It goes into detail about the Deep State and the occult that has always been present in Washington. All of these men are very good at what they do, and that is RESEARCH! Ltc. Robert Maginnis works in the Pentagon! Satan’s plan is well on it’s way!
The occult that is prevalent in the Catholic Church is just getting stronger! IMO! As I often say that the pieces of the puzzle are quickly ‘jumping’ into place! It seems that every day one more thing is revealed!
We live in a very exciting time! We may very well be the generation that sees the coming of our Lord for His bride!
I have little doubt that the Catholic Church will have an important part in this TIME OF THE END!
I continue to enjoy your contributions to this section!
We are blessed to have you!
God Bless!
Dec 4, 2018 10:35:02 #
TexaCan wrote:
In other words, the Catholic Church wants a One World Religion........And it is to be Catholic under the rule of the Pope, quite possibly the False Profit of Revelation!
===================
Because your Sola Scriptura does not have the complete teachings of Christ, but the Church of God, the Catholic Church does. That is why you call the Catholic Church " false profit of revelation." You are basing your conclusion from the Sola Scriptura that is NOT COMPLETE. It lacks 3/4 of the history of Christ's Gospel.
You and the rests of the 47,000 denominations are not what Christ wanted to have. Christ wants only his teachings interpreted ones, to have a UNIFIED meaning of his teachings. It must not be interpreted otherwise by so many denominations of your church.
It is not the official teachings of Christ practicing without authority from him.
You can continue your Sola, but I must tell you this. It has NO LICENSE to practice from Christ. On the contrary, so many of your Pastors getting license from the Sola to sell the words of God to the public for money. Fact: There are thousands of Pastors now competing with their multi-million dollar industry talking from the pulpit, on TV's, videos, cassettes and books.
Here is the Catholic Church:
http://standardnews.com/meet-richest-pastors-world/
Matthew 16:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Dec 4, 2018 11:06:18 #
Dec 4, 2018 13:02:41 #
TexaCan
Loc: Homeward Bound!
Radiance3 wrote:
=================== br Because your Sola Scriptura... (show quote)
Radiance, it’s clear that you know nothing about prophecy in the Bible! The only thing you ever quote is the talking points that you have been given to repeat for the week. This week it is all about needing a license! You are missing out on the most exciting times in history! Read your Bible! It has the same prophecy that our Bible has!
Dec 4, 2018 13:08:10 #
TexaCan wrote:
Radiance, it’s clear that you know nothing about prophecy in the Bible! The only thing you ever quote is the talking points that you have been given to repeat for the week. This week it is all about needing a license! You are missing out on the most exciting times in history! Read your Bible! It has the same prophecy that our Bible has!
Amen and Amen
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