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Exposing the heresies of the Catholic church - the mass
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Nov 25, 2018 22:35:24   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
padremike wrote:
The only reason you applaud Jack's article is because it conforms to your own personal/individual beliefs. What the three or four of you in agreement possess is what is called continuous agreement. It has nothing to do with Truth because thousands can be in continuous agreement, applaud each other and pat one another on the back and still remain in grievous error. You are all in grievous error! It is as simple and basic as that.



Please explain why the Catholic church has urged you followers to stop using the false numbers of Protestant churches. Not to mention half a dozen other outside links that discredit the lie you continue repeating even in light of the links being posted repeatedly for your benefit?

Also please explain how we postings replies all have attended different Christian churches but have exactly the same beliefs? Could it be what we have been trying to explain to you? We all belong to the same body of Christ, and Christ is the head of the body, which is the church. Our churches (denominations) only differ in name, but the same Holy Spirit, the same Jesus, The same Church.
A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Reply
Nov 25, 2018 23:21:35   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Please explain why the Catholic church has urged you followers to stop using the false numbers of Protestant churches. Not to mention half a dozen other outside links that discredit the lie you continue repeating even in light of the links being posted repeatedly for your benefit?

Also please explain how we postings replies all have attended different Christian churches but have exactly the same beliefs? Could it be what we have been trying to explain to you? We all belong to the same body of Christ, and Christ is the head of the body, which is the church. Our churches (denominations) only differ in name, but the same Holy Spirit, the same Jesus, The same Church.
A rose by any other name is still a rose.
Please explain why the Catholic church has urged y... (show quote)


Stop! Pay attention as difficult as it seems for you to focus for any length of time. I am not an apologist for the Catholic Church. They are more than capable of defending themselves. I am an Orthodox Christian and that also means we are part of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. Orthodox consider all Protestants as both heretics and schismatic. I know nothing about the Catholic church telling their folks to stop using the thousands of different denominations, sects, sub sects, cults, etc., found within Protestantism. However the Orthodox came the the same independent conclusion. Let's cut the number in half for benefit of your feelings. 20,000 is still a huge number. Cut that number in half again and it still is revealing how fragmented and diverse of faith and practice, beliefs and differences you entertain.

If the four of you got together and started comparing faith notes, providing you're not of the same denomination, you soon would find disagreement unless one of you dominated the others. You're so used to someone throwing down a piece of scripture and telling you authoritatively how they interpret it that a strong personality can easily lead you into falsehood. Every Protestant denomination has different traditions and different beliefs and different interpretations of scripture.

You all do not belong to the One undivided Holy church and you cannot possess the fullness of the same Holy Spirit who just happens to also be the Spirit of Truth. You falsely believe that the same Holy Spirit that descended on the Apostles at Pentecost to start their ministry gave to you the very same understanding and authority as them. You are grievously mistaken. You prove this by the very denial of their teachings. You would be amazed at the different Jesus' found in some weird protestant sects. Not the same Nature and Person of Christ that is taught, understood and defended by the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

Reply
Nov 25, 2018 23:47:55   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
padremike wrote:
Stop! Pay attention as difficult as it seems for you to focus for any length of time. I am not an apologist for the Catholic Church. They are more than capable of defending themselves. I am an Orthodox Christian and that also means we are part of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. Orthodox consider all Protestants as both heretics and schismatic. I know nothing about the Catholic church telling their folks to stop using the thousands of different denominations, sects, sub sects, cults, etc., found within Protestantism. However the Orthodox came the the same independent conclusion. Let's cut the number in half for benefit of your feelings. 20,000 is still a huge number. Cut that number in half again and it still is revealing how fragmented and diverse of faith and practice, beliefs and differences you entertain.

If the four of you got together and started comparing faith notes, providing you're not of the same denomination, you soon would find disagreement unless one of you dominated the others. You're so used to someone throwing down a piece of scripture and telling you authoritatively how they interpret it that a strong personality can easily lead you into falsehood. Every Protestant denomination has different traditions and different beliefs and different interpretations of scripture.

You all do not belong to the One undivided Holy church and you cannot possess the fullness of the same Holy Spirit who just happens to also be the Spirit of Truth. You falsely believe that the same Holy Spirit that descended on the Apostles at Pentecost to start their ministry gave to you the very same understanding and authority as them. You are grievously mistaken. You prove this by the very denial of their teachings. You would be amazed at the different Jesus' found in some weird protestant sects. Not the same Nature and Person of Christ that is taught, understood and defended by the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.
Stop! Pay attention as difficult as it seems for y... (show quote)




Stop.... Your funny Padre.

If you jump into a post as you did last week. Then you need to at least read all the replies. Had you done so you would have read where the false number first came from (Catholic apologist) and who corrected it (Catholic apologists) also you would have read that the entire research was false because how it was done.
You futher would have realized that tens of thousands of non denominational church's that are independent have the exact same theology but because they are independent have independent names ie: calvary chapel, Northwest grace, Seattle church of Jesus, Navigators ministry all have the exact same theology. Then there are thousands of churches Baptist, Assembly of God naming their churches after the town or city with still having the same theology.
The greatest difference in denominations is not theology rather the Church’s emphasis, such as some family, some evangelizing, others discipleship but all having the same theology. When their are differences they never are in major doctrinal issues but in minor that do not divide theology.

Knowing the truth and believing a long told lie with tge only motive but to credit one faith (Roman Catholic) and discredit another (Protestant) and the bad research, lie then gets picked up by other sources.

Which is why I made my point that four different people from different denominations yet have the exact same beliefs verse by verse. According to the false 33000 denominations this should be impossible.
The only credit to the research would be churches calling themselves Christians but are not.
Get real, get the truth or follow Doc110 and Radiance3 around that once having the truth continually still repeat a lie.

Reply
 
 
Nov 26, 2018 00:57:34   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
The writer of Hebrews is inescapably clear about the singular nature of Christ’s sacrifice.

For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. (Hebrews 9:24-28, emphasis added)

Scripture does not waver on the finality of Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf. He came to make a one-time offering for sin, never to be repeated. It was a contrast to the Mosaic covenant, which necessitated a system of near-constant sacrifices. But none of the Old Testament sacrifices could actually atone for sin. They could only serve as a reminder of God’s deliverance and foreshadow Christ’s final sacrifice which would conquer sin.

In the practice of the mass, the Roman Catholic Church has reinstituted an unbiblical system of repeated sacrifices, blaspheming Christ and perverting His work on the cross.

How important is the mass to Catholicism? The Catechism of the Catholic Church refers to it as “the source and summit of the Christian life.” That is to say, it is the origin and the high point of the Catholic faith. It’s not peripheral—it’s the heart and soul of the entire system.

In his book The Faith of Millions, John O’Brien, a Catholic priest, explains the procedure of the mass.

When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man. It is a power greater than that of monarchs and emperors: it is greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim. Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary. While the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man—not once but a thousand times! The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows His head in humble obedience to the priest’s command.

Put simply, the Catholic Church won’t let Christ off the cross. In the mass, the substance of the bread and the wine are supposedly transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus, rendering Him as a repeated, incomplete sacrifice for sins. He’s not Lord and Savior—He’s the eternal Victim, perpetually bound to the altar by the power of the priest, visibly and ubiquitously symbolized in the Roman Catholic crucifix.

That’s a direct denial of Paul’s teaching in Romans 6:8-10.

Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God (emphasis added).

By denying the singular sacrifice of Christ, Catholicism imbues its illegitimate priesthood with artificial power and authority, enslaving its followers to a repetitious system of ineffective, ungodly offerings for sin. It’s essentially paganism sprinkled with enough Christian terminology to deceive and delude souls, convincing them Christ’s death on the cross was not enough to accomplish their salvation. In effect, the mass cancels out the real meaning of the cross.

In Light from Old Times, J.C. Ryle explained the theological and spiritual implications—and imperfections—of the Catholic mass.

Whatever men please to think or say, the Romish doctrine of the real presence, if pursued to its legitimate consequences, obscures every leading doctrine of the gospel, and damages and interferes with the whole system of Christ’s truth. Grant for a moment that the Lord’s Supper is a sacrifice, and not a sacrament—grant that every time the words of the consecration are used the natural body and blood of Christ are present on the communion table under the forms of bread and wine—grant that every one who eats that consecrated bread and drinks that consecrated wine does really eat and drink the natural body and blood of Christ—grant for a moment these things, and then see what momentous consequences result from these premises. You spoil the blessed doctrine of Christ’s finished work when He died on the cross. A sacrifice that needs to be repeated is not a perfect and complete thing. You spoil the priestly office of Christ. If there are priests that can offer an acceptable sacrifice to God besides Him, the great High Priest is robbed of His glory. You spoil the scriptural doctrine of the Christian ministry. You exalt sinful men into the position of mediators between God and man. You give to the sacramental elements of bread and wine an honour and veneration they were never meant to receive, and produce an idolatry to be abhorred of faithful Christians. Last, but not least, you overthrow the true doctrine of Christ’s human nature. If the body born of the Virgin Mary can be in more places than one at the same time, it is not a body like our own, and Jesus was not “the last Adam” in the truth of our nature.

In simple terms, the mass has nothing to do with the Christian gospel, nothing to do with the Christian life, and nothing to do with the Christian church. It rejects the true, biblical nature of God, Christ, sin, salvation, atonement, and forgiveness. It robs the cross of its meaning and replaces it with superficial, man-centered idolatry. It’s a lie, a fraud, and a damning fabrication that enslaves hearts and ushers people to hell.

https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B130228
The writer of Hebrews is inescapably clear about t... (show quote)

======================
Your Sola Scriptura is WRONG! You don't have Covenant with Christ.
Paul? What a dumb brain comparing Paul to Christ.
Paul is not God. Paul is only a saint, a follower of Christ. Paul did not offer his body and blood for the forgiveness of sins.

Paul did not take the Last Supper. Jesus did with His Disciples. Paul is a Saint.
Jesus is GOD.

John 6:53-59 New International Version (NIV)
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Matthew 26:28
for this is my blood, which confirms the covenant between God and his people. It is poured out as a sacrifice to forgive the sins of many.


Matthew 26:27-29
27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.

28 This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.

Bottom line is Protestants and Non-believers do not have Covenant with Christ.
Protestants are not children of God.


Those who took Covenant with Christ are called children of God. They are the Catholics.

Reply
Nov 26, 2018 01:08:31   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Stop.... Your funny Padre.

If you jump into a post as you did last week. Then you need to at least read all the replies. Had you done so you would have read where the false number first came from (Catholic apologist) and who corrected it (Catholic apologists) also you would have read that the entire research was false because how it was done.
You futher would have realized that tens of thousands of non denominational church's that are independent have the exact same theology but because they are independent have independent names ie: calvary chapel, Northwest grace, Seattle church of Jesus, Navigators ministry all have the exact same theology. Then there are thousands of churches Baptist, Assembly of God naming their churches after the town or city with still having the same theology.
The greatest difference in denominations is not theology rather the Church’s emphasis, such as some family, some evangelizing, others discipleship but all having the same theology. When their are differences they never are in major doctrinal issues but in minor that do not divide theology.

Knowing the truth and believing a long told lie with tge only motive but to credit one faith (Roman Catholic) and discredit another (Protestant) and the bad research, lie then gets picked up by other sources.

Which is why I made my point that four different people from different denominations yet have the exact same beliefs verse by verse. According to the false 33000 denominations this should be impossible.
The only credit to the research would be churches calling themselves Christians but are not.
Get real, get the truth or follow Doc110 and Radiance3 around that once having the truth continually still repeat a lie.
Stop.... Your funny Padre. br br If you jump in... (show quote)


If you believe 4 different protestants from four different denominations are in agreement theologically then you're more uninformed that I imagined. Jack, you really don't know what you're talking about. You bloody protestants can't even agree on the basics such as baptism. Within 80 years of the reformation there were already over 200 different protestant groups, sects, denominations - whatever you want to call them. The point being they were all at odds with one another over scripture interpretations, Faith and practice. It's worse today. The only improvement is you're not burning one another up for heresy. Good grief if you won't even look to your own history it's no wonder you're not interested in the first 1500 years. Wear those blinders! I understand that you'd like to smooth the extreme differences between denominations over and cover them up, much like a cat does her scat, but I know much more about Protestantism than you will ever know and understand about the one, holy, catholic, apostolic and undivided church. It's too late to carry on more tonight. Stick around. As long as you're willing to listen I'm willing to teach.

Reply
Nov 26, 2018 01:12:43   #
Radiance3
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Stop.... Your funny Padre.

If you jump into a post as you did last week. Then you need to at least read all the replies. Had you done so you would have read where the false number first came from (Catholic apologist) and who corrected it (Catholic apologists) also you would have read that the entire research was false because how it was done.
You futher would have realized that tens of thousands of non denominational church's that are independent have the exact same theology but because they are independent have independent names ie: calvary chapel, Northwest grace, Seattle church of Jesus, Navigators ministry all have the exact same theology. Then there are thousands of churches Baptist, Assembly of God naming their churches after the town or city with still having the same theology.
The greatest difference in denominations is not theology rather the Church’s emphasis, such as some family, some evangelizing, others discipleship but all having the same theology. When their are differences they never are in major doctrinal issues but in minor that do not divide theology.

Knowing the truth and believing a long told lie with tge only motive but to credit one faith (Roman Catholic) and discredit another (Protestant) and the bad research, lie then gets picked up by other sources.

Which is why I made my point that four different people from different denominations yet have the exact same beliefs verse by verse. According to the false 33000 denominations this should be impossible.
The only credit to the research would be churches calling themselves Christians but are not.
Get real, get the truth or follow Doc110 and Radiance3 around that once having the truth continually still repeat a lie.
Stop.... Your funny Padre. br br If you jump in... (show quote)

================
Jack Sequim, your Protestant denominations now as of Oct. 2017. is 47,000.
Just How Many Protestant Denominations Are There?
www.ncregister.com/blog/sbeale/just-how-many-protestant-denominations-are-there
Blogs | Oct. 31, 2017. Just How Many Protestant. But the World Christian Encyclopedia's method seems to be shared by other institutions. Seminary, which is evangelical Protestant, estimates that there are currently 47,000 denominations

Reply
Nov 26, 2018 01:15:50   #
Radiance3
 
padremike wrote:
If you believe 4 different protestants from four different denominations are in agreement theologically then you're more uninformed that I imagined. Jack, you really don't know what you're talking about. You bloody protestants can't even agree on the basics such as baptism. Within 80 years of the reformation there were already over 200 different protestant groups, sects, denominations - whatever you want to call them. The point being they were all at odds with one another over scripture interpretations, Faith and practice. It's worse today. The only improvement is you're not burning one another up for heresy. Good grief if you won't even look to your own history it's no wonder you're not interested in the first 1500 years. Wear those blinders! I understand that you'd like to smooth the extreme differences between denominations over and cover them up, much like a cat does her scat, but I know much more about Protestantism than you will ever know and understand about the one, holy, catholic, apostolic and undivided church. It's too late to carry on more tonight. Stick around. As long as you're willing to listen I'm willing to teach.
If you believe 4 different protestants from four d... (show quote)

=============
Teach of what? I think with your dumb brain? Radical, rude, unethical, liar, dishonest. You did that many times! What will you teach? That illegal Sola Scriptura?

Reply
 
 
Nov 26, 2018 01:54:31   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
padremike wrote:
If you believe 4 different protestants from four different denominations are in agreement theologically then you're more uninformed that I imagined. Jack, you really don't know what you're talking about. You bloody protestants can't even agree on the basics such as baptism. Within 80 years of the reformation there were already over 200 different protestant groups, sects, denominations - whatever you want to call them. The point being they were all at odds with one another over scripture interpretations, Faith and practice. It's worse today. The only improvement is you're not burning one another up for heresy. Good grief if you won't even look to your own history it's no wonder you're not interested in the first 1500 years. Wear those blinders! I understand that you'd like to smooth the extreme differences between denominations over and cover them up, much like a cat does her scat, but I know much more about Protestantism than you will ever know and understand about the one, holy, catholic, apostolic and undivided church. It's too late to carry on more tonight. Stick around. As long as you're willing to listen I'm willing to teach.
If you believe 4 different protestants from four d... (show quote)




Now your making a fool of yourself. Try reading the last few months of post on the religious topics and see for yourself 4 different, but the very same on theology.
And tell me what we know... Most have been in several different church's over decades, so your saying we don't know what we believe or the churches we have attended.
Your arragance is embarrassing...

Reply
Nov 26, 2018 01:55:52   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Radiance3 wrote:
================
Jack Sequim, your Protestant denominations now as of Oct. 2017. is 47,000.
Just How Many Protestant Denominations Are There?
www.ncregister.com/blog/sbeale/just-how-many-protestant-denominations-are-there
Blogs | Oct. 31, 2017. Just How Many Protestant. But the World Christian Encyclopedia's method seems to be shared by other institutions. Seminary, which is evangelical Protestant, estimates that there are currently 47,000 denominations




Your either proving your stupid or playing games.
Your playing games, right?

Reply
Nov 26, 2018 02:07:19   #
Radiance3
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Your either proving your stupid or playing games.
Your playing games, right?


==============
What games are you talking about. There are the facts displayed.
Bottom line is You are practicing a heretic Gospel.

Reply
Nov 26, 2018 09:30:05   #
Rose42
 
padremike wrote:
The only reason you applaud Jack's article is because it conforms to your own personal/individual beliefs. What the three or four of you in agreement possess is what is called continuous agreement. It has nothing to do with Truth because thousands can be in continuous agreement, applaud each other and pat one another on the back and still remain in grievous error. You are all in grievous error! It is as simple and basic as that.


Then refute it scripturally. Not with man's opinions but with God's word.

Reply
 
 
Nov 26, 2018 09:34:08   #
Rose42
 
padremike wrote:
If you believe 4 different protestants from four different denominations are in agreement theologically then you're more uninformed that I imagined. Jack, you really don't know what you're talking about. You bloody protestants can't even agree on the basics such as baptism. Within 80 years of the reformation there were already over 200 different protestant groups, sects, denominations - whatever you want to call them. The point being they were all at odds with one another over scripture interpretations, Faith and practice. It's worse today. The only improvement is you're not burning one another up for heresy. Good grief if you won't even look to your own history it's no wonder you're not interested in the first 1500 years. Wear those blinders! I understand that you'd like to smooth the extreme differences between denominations over and cover them up, much like a cat does her scat, but I know much more about Protestantism than you will ever know and understand about the one, holy, catholic, apostolic and undivided church. It's too late to carry on more tonight. Stick around. As long as you're willing to listen I'm willing to teach.
If you believe 4 different protestants from four d... (show quote)


That still doesn't validate the false doctrine of Catholicism! Mormons agree on baptism but are they not still a cult? Muslims have different sects but they all agree that Mohammed is their prophet.

Reply
Nov 26, 2018 10:17:34   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Radiance3 wrote:
=============
Teach of what? I think with your dumb brain? Radical, rude, unethical, liar, dishonest. You did that many times! What will you teach? That illegal Sola Scriptura?


Radiance did you accidentally post your comment in the wrong place? I know, unquestionably, sola scriptura is Satan's own handiwork.

Reply
Nov 26, 2018 10:23:27   #
Rose42
 
padremike wrote:
Radiance did you accidentally post your comment in the wrong place? I know, unquestionably, sola scriptura is Satan's own handiwork.


Is God's word lying to us then?

Paul is lying in his letter to Timothy?

Tim. 3:16-17 - All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate--equipped for every good work.

Psalm 19 is a lie too?

Psalm 19

7 The law of the Lord is perfect,
reviving the soul;
the testimony of the Lord is sure,
making wise the simple;

8 the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of the Lord is pure,
enlightening the eyes;

9 the fear of the Lord is clean,
enduring forever;
the rules of the Lord are true,
and righteous altogether.


10 More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey
and drippings of the honeycomb.

Reply
Nov 26, 2018 10:23:53   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Rose42 wrote:
That still doesn't validate the false doctrine of Catholicism! Mormons agree on baptism but are they not still a cult? Muslims have different sects but they all agree that Mohammed is their prophet.


But Mohammed wasn't a prophet, so it makes no difference how many sects they split into. Mormon baptism is not Christian Baptism, and the faith once delivered by Christ to the Apostles is the one, holy, catholic and apostolic faith and you do not believe in or partake of that faith. Therefore, does it really matter, just like with Islam, how many sects you split into? The numbers matter much less than keeping the faith.

Reply
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