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Exposing the heresies of the Catholic church - the mass
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Dec 6, 2018 11:58:58   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
Radiance3 wrote:
=============
TexaCan, Sola Scriptura is not authorized by Christ.

4. Christ tells us to submit to the Authority of the Church

5 Scripture itself states that it is insufficient of itself as a teacher, but rather needs an interpreter.
The Bible says in 2 Tim. 3:17 that the man of God is "perfect, furnished to every good work." As we noted above, this verse means only that the man of God is fully supplied with Scripture; it is not a guarantee that he automatically knows how to interpret it properly. This verse at most argues only for the material sufficiency of Scripture, a position which is held by some Catholic thinkers today.

6. The first Christians did not have a Bible
Biblical scholars tell us that the last book of the New Testament was not written until the end of the 1stcentury A.D., that is, until around the year 100 A.D. (9) This fact would leave roughly a 65-year gap between Our Lord’s Ascension into Heaven and the completion of the Bible as we know it. The question that begs to be asked, therefore, is this: "Who or what served as the final, infallible authority during that time?"

7. The Church produced the Bible not vice-versa
The doctrine of Sola Scriptura overlooks – or at least grossly underemphasizes – the fact that the Church came before the Bible, and not the other way around. It was the Church, in effect, which wrote the Bible under the inspiration of Almighty God: the Israelites as the Old Testament Church (or "pre-Catholics") and the early Catholics as the New Testament Church.

8. The idea of the Scripture's Authority existing apart from the authority of the Teacher Church is utterly foreign to the Early Church.
If you look at the writings of the Early Church Fathers, you will see references to the Apostolic Succession, (10) to the bishops as guardians of the Deposit of Faith, (11) and to the primacy and the authority of Rome. (12) The collective weight of these references makes clear the fact that the early Church understood itself has having a hierarchy which was central to maintaining the integrity of the Faith. Nowhere do we see any indication that the early followers of Christ

9. Heresiarchs and heretical movements based their doctrines on Scripture interpreted apart from Tradition and the Magisterium.
If you look at the history of the early Church, you will see that it continually struggled against heresies and those who promoted them. We also see the Church responding to those threats again and again by convening Councils (15) and turning to Rome to settle disputes in matters of

10. The Canon of the Bible was not settled until the 4th Century.
One historical fact which proves extremely convenient for the Protestant is the fact that the canon of the Bible – the authoritative list of exactly which books are part of inspired Scripture –

11. An "Extra-Biblical" Authority Identified the Canon of the Bible.
Since the Bible did not come with an inspired table of contents, the doctrine of Sola Scriptura creates yet another dilemma: How can one know with certainty which books belong in the Bible – specifically, in the New Testament? The unadulterated fact is that one cannot know unless there is an authority outside the Bible which can tell him. Moreover, this authority must.

12. The Belief that Scripture is "Self-Authenticating" Does Not Hold Up under Examination
Lacking a satisfactory answer to the question of how the canon of the Bible was determined, Protestants often resort to the notion that Scripture is "self-authenticating," that is, the books of the Bible witness to themselves that they are inspired of God. The major problem with such an assertion is simply that even a cursory examination of ecclesial history will demonstrate it to be utterly untrue.

13. None of the Original Biblical Manuscripts is Extant.
A sobering consideration – and one which is fatal to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura – is that we do not possess a single original manuscript of any book of the Bible. Now it is true that there are thousands of manuscripts extant which are copies of the originals – and more likely than not they are copies of copies – but this fact does not help the Sola Scriptura position for the simple reason that without original manuscripts, one cannot know with certainty if he actually possesses the real Bible, whole and entire.

14. The Biblical Manuscripts Contain Thousands of Variations
It has just been noted that there are thousands of Biblical manuscripts in existence; these manuscripts contain thousands of variations in the text; one writer estimates that there are over 200,000 variations. (25) Whereas the majority of these deal with minor concerns – such as spelling, word order and the like – there are also variations of a more important nature: a) the manuscript evidence shows that scribes sometimes modified

15. There Are Hundreds of Bible Versions.
As mentioned in Point 14 above, there are thousands and thousands of variations in the Biblical manuscripts. This problem is compounded by the fact that history has known hundreds of Bible versions, which vary in translation as well as textual sources. The question which begs to be asked is, "Which version is the correct one?" or "Which version is closest to the original manuscripts?" One possible answer will depend on which side of the Catholic/Protestant issue you situate yourself. Another possible answer will depend upon which Bible scholars you consider to be trustworthy and reputable.

16. The Bible Was Not Available to Individual Believers until the 15th Century.
Essential to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is the idea that the Holy Spirit will enlighten each believer as to the correct interpretation for a given Bible passage. This idea presupposes that each believer possesses a Bible or at least has access to a Bible. The difficulty with such a presumption is that the Bible was not able to be mass-produced and readily available to individual believers until the advent of the printing press in the 15th century. (34) Even then, it would have taken quite some time for large numbers of Bibles to be printed and disseminated to the general population.

17. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Did Not Exist Prior to the 14thCentury.
As difficult a reality as it may be for some to face, this foundational doctrine of Protestantism did not originate until the 14th century and did not become widespread until the 16h century – a far, far cry time-wise from the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles. This simple fact is conveniently overlooked or ignored by Protestants, but it can stand alone as sufficient reason to discard the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. The truth that the doctrine of Sola Scriptura did not exist before John Wycliffe (forerunner of Protestantism) in the 14th century and did not become widespread until Martin Luther came along in the 16th century and began setting up his own "traditions of men" in place of authentic

18. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Produces Bad Fruit, Namely, Division and Disunity.
If the doctrine of Sola Scriptura were true, then it should be expected that Protestants would all be in agreement in terms of doctrine, as the Bible could not simultaneously teach contradictory beliefs. And yet the reality is that there are literally thousands (35) of Protestant sects and denominations, each of which claims to have the Bible as its only guide, each of which claims to be preaching the truth, yet each of which teaches something different from the others. Protestants claim that they differ only in non-essential or peripheral matters, but the fact is that they cannot even agree on major doctrinal issues such as the Eucharist, salvation, and justification – to name a few.

19. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Does Not Allow for a Final, Definitive Interpretation of any given Passage of Scripture.
As we have seen above, the doctrine of Sola Scriptura maintains that the individual believer needs only the Bible as a rule of faith and that he can obtain a true interpretation of a given Scripture passage simply by comparing it with what the rest of the Bible teaches. In practice, however, this approach creates more problems than it solves, and it ultimately prevents the believer from knowing definitively and with certainty how any given passage from the Bible should be interpreted.

20. The Protestant Bible Is Missing 7 Entire Books
Much to their chagrin, Protestants are actually guilty of violating their own doctrine. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura prohibits anyone from adding to or deleting from the Bible, but Protestants have, in fact, deleted seven entire books from the Old Testament, as well as portions of two others. The books in question, which are wrongly termed "the Apocrypha" ("not authentic") by Protestants, are called the "deuterocanonical" ("second canon") books by Catholics: they are Tobias (Tobit), Judith, 1 and 2 Machabees, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus (or

21. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura Had its Source in Luther’s Own Emotional Problems.
If anything at all can be said with certainty about Martin Luther, it is that he was deeply and chronically troubled by a combination of doubts and despair about his salvation and a sense of utter impotence in the face of temptation and sin. Luther himself notes, "My spirit was completely broken and I was always in a state of melancholy; for, do what I would, my ‘righteousness’ and my ‘good works’ brought me no help or consolation." (47)

Summary
For all these reasons, then, it is evident that the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura is an utterly unbiblical, man-made, erroneous belief which must be wholly rejected. Those who are genuine Christian believers and who have a commitment to the truths that Jesus Christ taught – even if those contradict one’s current religious system – should be compelled by the evidence to see the inherent flaws in this doctrine, flaws which are clearly obvious from Scripture, logic and history.

The fullness of religious truth, unmixed with error, is found only in the Catholic Church, the very Church which Jesus Christ Himself established. According to the teaching of this Church, founded by Christ, Sola Scriptura is a distorted, truncated view of Christian authority. Rather, the true rule of faith for the followers of Christ is this:
The immediate or direct rule of faith is the teaching of the Church; the Church in turn takes her teaching from Divine Revelation – both the written Word, called Sacred Scripture, and the oral or unwritten Word, known as "Tradition," which together form the remote or indirect rule of faith.

Scripture and Tradition are the inspired sources of Christian doctrine, while the Church – a historical and visible entity dating back to St. Peter and the Apostles in an uninterrupted succession – is the infallible teacher and interpreter of Christian doctrine. It is only by accepting this complete Christian rule of faith that followers of Christ know they are adhering to all the things that He commanded His Apostles to teach (cf. Matt. 28:20). It is only by accepting this complete Christian rule of faith that the followers of Christ are assured of possessing the whole truth which Christ taught, and nothing but that truth.
============= br TexaCan, Sola Scriptura is not au... (show quote)


Why is it that you never answer anyone's question or remark on the subject being discussed, you just copy from a source or use one of the other Catholic's research! You have used this info so many times that you should be able to use your own words, instead of always copying your usual Sola Scriptura, the 47,0000 denominations that the Catholic Church refuted, no authority to preach, and my favorite lie of all....... only salvation thru the one, unholy Catholic Church!

If you weren't so lazy, you would actually attempt to discuss the subject by researching and learning something about lt and then you would be able to be contribute to the actual conversation instead of your usual parroting robotic diatribe!

Reply
Dec 6, 2018 12:01:18   #
Radiance3
 
TexaCan wrote:
I see you are taking full credit for this! Shouldn't you have said WE and not Just I? That's bragging!

===============
I created and lead the project. It is true I have some help. I must remember that. I'm honest to say, that though I am a perfectionist, I make mistakes as a human being. No bragging here. For humility sake, sorry about that.

Reply
Dec 6, 2018 12:20:08   #
Radiance3
 
TexaCan wrote:
Time is short for anyone of our age! Your works are done for YOUR purpose, your selfish purpose! You must do WORKS, yes? This is what you believe! So you continually Bragg and announce it to all! At the same time , you tell us that the poor people that you help, are beneath you!!!! You would never actually associate with them as a friend, because they are not worthy! They are not financially secure or educated, such as you and all your other wealthy and educated friends!

Mathew 6:2. Thus when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and n the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly I say to you, they have received their reward.

We believe that works are the fruit of our Faith, not required for salvation!

For it by Grace you have been saved, through faith- and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

And yet you continue to boast! You have no idea what we do for others, and you will never find us Bragging about it!
Time is short for anyone of our age! Your works a... (show quote)

===============
I am ready for that any time., TexaCan. The Kingdom where joys and love dwell forever.

But God wants me to stay further for more projects to be done for His children.

I am ready, able, and willing to doing that. I take care of my health very well, so my 74-year-old age does not matter. So being healthy with my lifestyle following God’s order makes me "age gracefully". And I can stay in my home for the rest of my life, with servants and maids taking care of me like a queen.

Honest to say that people think I am 50 years old, trim and fit. That you labeled me petite. If that I what it is. I love gardening, plenty of flowers around with birds, and rabbits playing. That is how I put my energy during spring and summer.

I can prove that I have beautiful garden in my backyard and on front. That is how physical exercise to staying petite. Then my brain exercise is reading and playing Chess with smart people. How do you like that?

This is not bragging. It is a fact of my life. You told me that my time is near? No worries. God is with me always where ever I go.

Reply
 
 
Dec 6, 2018 12:37:05   #
Radiance3
 
TexaCan wrote:
Why is it that you never answer anyone's question or remark on the subject being discussed, you just copy from a source or use one of the other Catholic's research! You have used this info so many times that you should be able to use your own words, instead of always copying your usual Sola Scriptura, the 47,0000 denominations that the Catholic Church refuted, no authority to preach, and my favorite lie of all....... only salvation thru the one, unholy Catholic Church!

If you weren't so lazy, you would actually attempt to discuss the subject by researching and learning something about lt and then you would be able to be contribute to the actual conversation instead of your usual parroting robotic diatribe!
Why is it that you never answer anyone's question ... (show quote)

=======================
TexaCan, I have posted many times the source of the 47,000 Protestant denomination as of Oct. 31, 2017. Here it is again. I did not make that up.

Just How Many Protestant Denominations Are There?
www.ncregister.com/blog/sbeale/just-how-many-protestant-denominations-are-there
Oct 31, 2017 - But the World Christian Encyclopedia's method seems to be shared by other institutions. ... Protestant, estimates that there are currently 47,000 denominations. ... So this is a Protestant institution's own assessment of its tradition's.

Reply
Dec 6, 2018 12:42:07   #
Rose42
 
TexaCan wrote:
Why is it that you never answer anyone's question or remark on the subject being discussed, you just copy from a source or use one of the other Catholic's research! You have used this info so many times that you should be able to use your own words, instead of always copying your usual Sola Scriptura, the 47,0000 denominations that the Catholic Church refuted, no authority to preach, and my favorite lie of all....... only salvation thru the one, unholy Catholic Church!

If you weren't so lazy, you would actually attempt to discuss the subject by researching and learning something about lt and then you would be able to be contribute to the actual conversation instead of your usual parroting robotic diatribe!
Why is it that you never answer anyone's question ... (show quote)


Its because she has no answer but to copy and paste meaningless drivel over and over. The topic is heresies of the Catholic mass and she's still posting about 47,000 denominations which has no relevance to the topic.

Reply
Dec 6, 2018 15:50:20   #
Radiance3
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Instead of blind faith in false history read for yourself.

The catholic church was started after Peter was long dead.
312 Ce by Constantine.


===============
That was the building of the Old Saint Peter Basilica.
But Peter for 22 years had been teaching and spreading the Gospel of Christ in Rome under the hidden eyes of Pagan Emperor Nero,

biography of the life of Peter.

Peter’s Life Before Christ
The Apostle Peter may have been the most outspoken of the twelve apostles in Jesus’ ministry on earth. He certainly became one of the boldest witnesses for the faith. His beginnings were certainly humble in origin.

He was born about 1 B.C. and died sometime around A.D. 67
.Around the year A.D. 45, Peter went to Rome to carry and spread the Gospel of Christ. Therefore Peter was able to spread Christ's Gospel for 22 years in Rome before he was persecuted by the Pagan Emperor Nero. When Peter was arrested, Saint Paul was also about to be persecuted by Nero.


Peter was originally named Simon. Jesus was the One Who changed Peter’s name. Peter means “rock” or literally Petra. He was a Galilean fisherman and was the brother of Andrew. The brothers came from the village of Bethsaida (John 1:43, 12:21). Peter was married. He was also a follower of John the Baptist. Peter, like all humans before their calling, was a sinful man. In fact he was ashamed of his sinfulness in the presence of Jesus Christ (Luke 5:6-8). Peter was perhaps the very first disciple that Jesus called along with His brother Andrew.

Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/apostle-peter-biography-timeline-life-and-death/#ixzz5YwCto5g2

After the death of Peter, the Cardinals and Bishops continued the spread of Christianity but hidden away from Nero's knowledge. Then after Nero, the converted Christian mother of Constantine, asked her son Constantine the present head of Rome to make Christianity the official religion.

Then they started building the Saint Peter's Basilica. While digging during construction, the bone of Saint Peter and other Cardinals were discovered buried there. Building of the Basilica about 315 to 332 AD..

The Council of Nicaea in May 325 A.D. gathered to discuss and unite over the issues that divided the church. Three hundred eighteen bishops assembled and established the Nicene Creed.

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Dec 6, 2018 16:02:54   #
Rose42
 
Is Peter the rock on which the Church is built? Not according to God's word

https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-147167-1.html

Isn't it fascinating that Paul never mentioned Peter in Romans and Peter wasn't included in his greetings. Could it be that Peter was never in Rome as the Catholic church claims? That is most likely. Peter pretty much disappeared around Acts 15. If he had been the first pope that would have been prominent in the Bible. It isn't.

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Dec 6, 2018 16:09:17   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
Is Peter the rock on which the Church is built? Not according to God's word

https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-147167-1.html

Isn't it fascinating that Paul never mentioned Peter in Romans and Peter wasn't included in his greetings. Could it be that Peter was never in Rome as the Catholic church claims? That is most likely. Peter pretty much disappeared around Acts 15. If he had been the first pope that would have been prominent in the Bible. It isn't.

===============
Well, Your Sola Scriptura interpreted that. That is why Jesus don't want so many interpreters of His Teachings. They are not unified.

You can believe your Sola no one is stopping you. History was written and God decides.

Reply
Dec 6, 2018 16:14:36   #
Rose42
 
Radiance3 wrote:
===============
Well, Your Sola Scriptura interpreted that. That is why Jesus don't want so many interpreters of His Teachings. They are not unified.


Is that in your Book of Opinions? The Catholic Book of Opinions is used often by you.

Jesus never said that Radiance - that's ridiculous. And yes, protestants are mostly unified in their beliefs even though they don't all follow the same structure for a service.

Reply
Dec 6, 2018 16:17:23   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
Its because she has no answer but to copy and paste meaningless drivel over and over. The topic is heresies of the Catholic mass and she's still posting about 47,000 denominations which has no relevance to the topic.

==============
The 47,000 makes the 47,000 interpretations of your Sola Scriptura.
Still no relevance? Still lie and l deny the 47,000? I did not create that. I have posted to you several times the source.
If you don't believe that is your choice.

Have a beautiful day.

Reply
Dec 8, 2018 08:33:10   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
Radiance3 wrote:
===============
I am ready for that any time., TexaCan. The Kingdom where joys and love dwell forever.

But God wants me to stay further for more projects to be done for His children.

I am ready, able, and willing to doing that. I take care of my health very well, so my 74-year-old age does not matter. So being healthy with my lifestyle following God’s order makes me "age gracefully". And I can stay in my home for the rest of my life, with servants and maids taking care of me like a queen.

Honest to say that people think I am 50 years old, trim and fit. That you labeled me petite. If that I what it is. I love gardening, plenty of flowers around with birds, and rabbits playing. That is how I put my energy during spring and summer.

I can prove that I have beautiful garden in my backyard and on front. That is how physical exercise to staying petite. Then my brain exercise is reading and playing Chess with smart people. How do you like that?

This is not bragging. It is a fact of my life. You told me that my time is near? No worries. God is with me always where ever I go.
=============== br I am ready for that any time., ... (show quote)

Radiance! Radiance! Radiance!

This is the perfect example of your BRAGGING!

First of all, this is a public forum and anyone can "Be" anything they choose, or they can be exactly who they claim to be!

You have this need to convince everyone how successful and wealthy you are by "bragging" about your servants and maids! We can now add "conceited" to the list! You constantly describe your physical appearance, WHY????
And then .......... your immense brain! BTW Your memory ability need a little work. I never described you as 'petite'.

You presume that you do more than anyone else for charity because you constantly announce it and we don't! Your use of " I " instead of " we " is quite telling! Yes!

I don't think anyone is interested in your servants and maids or how young you look or how petite you are or your large brain or how much "you" do for others! All that is bragging and you are very efficient at doing it!

You do two things exceptionally well...... bragging and deflecting from the conversation of the thread!

Reply
Dec 8, 2018 08:54:20   #
Rose42
 
Radiance3 wrote:
==============
The 47,000 makes the 47,000 interpretations of your Sola Scriptura.
Still no relevance? Still lie and l deny the 47,000? I did not create that. I have posted to you several times the source.
If you don't believe that is your choice.

Have a beautiful day.


I never denied that number and I've said that before too. You're not being honest. You have a history of not being honest about what others say.

Please read the Bible for yourself. 1 John is a good place to start.

Reply
Dec 8, 2018 21:37:19   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
I never denied that number and I've said that before too. You're not being honest. You have a history of not being honest about what others say.

Please read the Bible for yourself. 1 John is a good place to start.


==============
Not from your Sola Scriptures! All man-made.

I have my own Catholic Bible Rose42. What you have are all stolen from the Church of Christ, the Catholic Bible. Any Scripture taken from Solas does not stay with me. I have one right beside my bed, that I read day in and day out. It is the Holy Catholic Bible that Christ had authorized to keep.

You want your Solas to dethrone the Holy Church of Christ created by Christ since 2000 years ago? Get away from me!!

Reply
Dec 9, 2018 09:10:08   #
Rose42
 
Radiance3 wrote:
==============
What you have are all stolen from the Church of Christ, the Catholic Bible.


Put up or shut up Radiance. Where does it say anywhere that Christians stole anything from the Catholics?

Reply
Dec 9, 2018 20:42:51   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
Put up or shut up Radiance. Where does it say anywhere that Christians stole anything from the Catholics?


===============
Rose, your Sola Existence are all FAKE. In an attempt to provide validity to it, Protestants are destroying the history of the Catholic Church, well as the existence of St Peter,as the true Apostle vested by Christ of His Catholic church. Everything you Protestants do is destroying the Catholic Church in order for Sola Scriptura to take over as the true Gospel of Christ. That is impossible. It lacks all the rights that Christ had left to St Peter. Sola Scriptura has been violating what Christ had expected and left St Peter to taking care of His Church and His Teachings for the people.'

All of you are not member of Christ's body. No Covenant with Christ. Admit that and it is final!

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