son of witless

After all we had done for them.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-rips-macron-after-landing-in-france-over-insulting-call-for-european-army

Seth

Fine.

Think of all the tax money that would be freed up if we let France replace NATO with an all Euro defense force.

Weasel Loc: In the Great State Of Indiana!!

Let MAGA Run its course..

bmac32 Loc: West Florida

OH goodie goodie here comes the French underground.

PJT

What is it with French politicians. Last really decent one was Gen. Charles deGaulle. He restored French p***e lost since the tyrant Napoleon.
We save France in two world wars, help them in Viet Nan. They h**e us.
I've been to Paris. Rude people. Only consolation was one Frenchman told me Parisians don't even like non-Parisian French.

son of witless

I think it is telling that the French view us as an equal threat as Russia and China. In some ways they are right. We are not the military threat that Russia is and we are not the economic threat that China is. We seem to be a cultural and political threat. The French remember when the French language, culture, military, and economic power was on a par with German and English influence in the World. Europe is not what it was. The two World Wars diminished Europe, and England and Germany are not the first class powers of yesteryear.

Germany economically is the closest to recapturing it's old status. The United States as the daughter of England, carries the standard for the English language and the old English Capitalism that England is trying to get back to. The French deeply resent American culture. With the Germans, they were able to keep Great Britain under their thumb by pushing the Socialist EU values. Under Trump America is no longer obeying it's European cultural betters. American influence has to be a factor in Brexit.

The French under DeGaulle were never full in on Nato. DeGaulle always resented France's second class status behind the US and Britain.

PJT

DeGaulle may have hedged on NATO but he was a good friend of the USA, backing us in every crisis inc. Cuban Missle Crisis. He just was fighting to return France to 1st tier nation status
Only thing I didn't like about DeGaulle was when he went to Canada and spoke in favor of French Canadian independence.

jim_shipley

When the US pulls out of Europe it will make America even greater and a great deal richer.

son of witless

There was a very good fictional book called Day of the Jackal, that even though it is not true, it gives a good snapshot of how DeGaulle was viewed in and out of France during the 1960s. DeGaulle was a problem for his allies. There were also many in France who wanted him dead over his giving Algeria independence from France.

PJT

Son of Witless.
Since "Day of the Jackel" isn't true, I dismiss its anti-DeGaulle content.
As to his enemies over Algeria, so whay?
I didn't say everyone agreed with him.
I do think he restored prestige and hopefulness to a once proud nation that was humbled by another great leader who was flawed and
After whom France became a shell of a nation.
Napoleon wiped out a generation of Frenchmen.
Restored monarchy proved a failure due to the king who ascended the th one
Napoleon III was a disaster leading France into the ill-fated Mexican venture and the humiliating Franco/Prussian War.
WW I and WWII it took half the world to keep France from all but disappearing (France was a major cause of WWI and its vengeance at Versailles assured WWII.
France became a political circus with changes of presidents and prime ministers multi times over 100 years.
AND THEN CAME DE GAULLE. dance has had more stable governments since Le Grand Charles. And regained prestige not seen since Napoleon--actually since before the French Revolution. Napoleon brought prestige after the chaotic revolution...errrr sorta like Hitler did after WWI in Germany. With the same result for each country.

son of witless

Have you read Day of the Jackal ? The author put a fictional plot into historical context. The Assassination attempt mentioned in the book before the plot of the book, actually did happen. DeGAulle had bitter enemies inside of France. The author was quite familiar with DeGaulle and France at the time he wrote the book. I am not saying the DeGaulle was not a great leader, I am merely pointing out that he was not an easy ally to get along with for his Nato friends.

PJT

Of course DeGaulle had bitter enemies. So has every American president. But DeGaulle's enemies were not that numerous, and the attempted assassination was the attempt of a fool.
No reason why DeGaulle had to be enchanted with all of NATO. He was a staunch ally.

son of witless

I agree that DeGaulle was a net positive for France. France's troubles pre WW2 and Post WW2 had a lot to do with weak political leadership. DeGaulle was anything but weak. I look at Degaulle from the perspective of the leaders of his allies who had to deal with him. He was always a troublesome team player. In the book The Day of the Jackal, they describe the hostility he sometimes caused with the leadership of other Western governments. That made cooperation between the various levels of the bureaucracies of the allied nations difficult.

In some ways he was somewhat like Trump. Trump is in your face pro American. DeGaulle was in your face pro France. The old WW2 military Veterans revered him. The Veterans of the dirty Algerian War felt that he had stabbed them in the back.

PJT

Churchill and FDR didn't like DeGaulle. They were such egomaniacss that they looked down on most other leaders. Churchill thought he new ore than all his generals and leaders of the Commnweath. WSC and FDR were a hindrance to DeGaulle and Chiang Kai-shek. Thank God for Eisenhower in Europe.

Mikeyavelli

The French have always been there when they needed us. They planted trees so that the N**is could walk in the shade. They created a champagne to appease Russia.
Their arsenal is never fired rifles from WW2. They only march backwards.
No wonder zat zey er peesed uff becoze we won't be zer army.