If Nothing can Come from Nothing, Where did “God” Come From?
Sep 30, 2018 02:20:07 #
07/19/2016 If Nothing can Come from Nothing, Where did “God” Come From?
Fr. Robert Spitzer
https://www.magiscenter.com/if-nothing-can-come-from-nothing-where-did-god-come-from/
If a reality – say, our universe – has a beginning, then that beginning point represents the point at which the universe came into existence (including its physical time).
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/what-was-it-like-when-the-big-bang-first-began-cef8de2c2d73
Prior to that point the physical universe did not exist.
In other words, it was nothing – absolute nothing.
Now HERE is where the problem of something coming from nothing appears on the scene.
If the universe was truly nothing, and if from nothing only nothing can come, then the universe needs something beyond itself to cause it to exist – to bring it from nothing to something.
What Realities Need Explaining?
Without this transcendent cause (a creator), the universe could not bring itself from nothing to something – because it was nothing.
If a reality doesn’t have a beginning, if it is not conditioned in its existence, and if it is not conditioned by time, that reality does not have to have a creator.
It does not have to have a cause for its existence, because it was never nothing (unlike our universe, which was nothing prior to its beginning) and it was not dependent on anything else for its existence.
It is its own existence – indeed, it is existence or being itself. Such a reality is not contradictory – it is, in the words of many philosophers, necessary.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/god-necessary-being/
There is nothing in the world of logic that requires every being to have a creator or a cause!
The only beings that require a creator or a cause, as I said above, are those which have a beginning, those which are dependent on something else for their existence, and those which are conditioned by time.
What is Exactly is God?
Now let’s return to your question.
God is defined as a being that does not have a beginning, that is not dependent on anything for its existence, and that is not conditioned by time, and so God does not need a cause.
Indeed, if you read chapters three and five of “New Proofs for the Existence of God,” you will see that God must exist, because there must exist at least
https://www.magiscenter.com/product/new-proofs-for-the-existence-of-god/
One reality which:
Has no beginning,
Is not dependent on anything else for its existence,
And is not conditioned by time.
The short reason for this (which is explained fully in the book) is as follows:
If all beings have a beginning, then all beings will have been nothing prior to their beginning, but this means that nothing will ever come into existence.
Why?
Avoid the Infinite Regress
Let’s say our universe is nothing without the existence of a prior reality, but that prior reality is nothing without the existence of another prior reality, and so forth ad infinitum.
Then the whole of reality is nothing without prior realities, but we have no end to the prior realities, which are nothing.
In short, the sum total of all the realities which are nothing without other realities, which are nothing without other realities, which are nothing…
Is NOTHING.
Zero added to itself an infinite number of times is zero.
You can read a fuller explanation here, or in chapters three through five of the book. If you do not have at least one “reality which is NOT nothing prior to a beginning” (like God), then you have no reality at all.
https://strangenotions.com/why-an-infinite-regress-among-proper-causes-is-metaphysically-impossible/
And this We Call God
Now it just so happens that there can be ONLY one reality that does not have a beginning, is not dependent on anything else for its existence, and is not conditioned by time.
The proofs for this are in the book, and it will take too long to explain them here.
The ultimate conclusion is there has to be AT LEAST one “beginningless being.”
And there can be ONLY one “beginningless being” – and this is what we mean by “God.”
Now let’s return to your question.
The reason we ask the question “why does the universe have a cause?”
Or “why do we have to explain how the universe came from nothing to something?”
is because there is an increasing amount of evidence from physics, the philosophy of mathematics, and metaphysics that imply and even require that the universe has a BEGINNING.
You can see some of this evidence on our Physics FAQ (or chapters one through five of “New Proofs”).
The Borde-Vilenkin-Guth 2003 theorem, entropy, the Borde-Vilenkin 1993 theorem, etc.
https://www.magiscenter.com/evidence-of-a-beginning-of-the-universe-from-the-borde-vilenkin-guth-bvg-theorem-god-modern-physics-8/
“Where Did God Come From?” Doesn’t Apply
These questions don’t come up with respect to God because there is NO EVIDENCE that God had a beginning, or is dependent on something for its existence, or is conditioned by time.
Indeed, as noted above, there must be at least one being – and only one being (i.e. God).
That does not have a beginning, is not dependent on anything for its existence, and is not conditioned by time.
I hope this helps you with your query.
If you want a more complete explanation, please read “New Proofs for the Existence of God” or download our
https://www.magiscenter.com/product/new-proofs-for-the-existence-of-god/
Physics FAQ.
https://www.magiscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Magis_FactSheet.pdf
Sincerely,
Fr. Robert Spitzer, S.J., Ph.D.
Fr. Robert Spitzer
https://www.magiscenter.com/if-nothing-can-come-from-nothing-where-did-god-come-from/
If a reality – say, our universe – has a beginning, then that beginning point represents the point at which the universe came into existence (including its physical time).
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/what-was-it-like-when-the-big-bang-first-began-cef8de2c2d73
Prior to that point the physical universe did not exist.
In other words, it was nothing – absolute nothing.
Now HERE is where the problem of something coming from nothing appears on the scene.
If the universe was truly nothing, and if from nothing only nothing can come, then the universe needs something beyond itself to cause it to exist – to bring it from nothing to something.
What Realities Need Explaining?
Without this transcendent cause (a creator), the universe could not bring itself from nothing to something – because it was nothing.
If a reality doesn’t have a beginning, if it is not conditioned in its existence, and if it is not conditioned by time, that reality does not have to have a creator.
It does not have to have a cause for its existence, because it was never nothing (unlike our universe, which was nothing prior to its beginning) and it was not dependent on anything else for its existence.
It is its own existence – indeed, it is existence or being itself. Such a reality is not contradictory – it is, in the words of many philosophers, necessary.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/god-necessary-being/
There is nothing in the world of logic that requires every being to have a creator or a cause!
The only beings that require a creator or a cause, as I said above, are those which have a beginning, those which are dependent on something else for their existence, and those which are conditioned by time.
What is Exactly is God?
Now let’s return to your question.
God is defined as a being that does not have a beginning, that is not dependent on anything for its existence, and that is not conditioned by time, and so God does not need a cause.
Indeed, if you read chapters three and five of “New Proofs for the Existence of God,” you will see that God must exist, because there must exist at least
https://www.magiscenter.com/product/new-proofs-for-the-existence-of-god/
One reality which:
Has no beginning,
Is not dependent on anything else for its existence,
And is not conditioned by time.
The short reason for this (which is explained fully in the book) is as follows:
If all beings have a beginning, then all beings will have been nothing prior to their beginning, but this means that nothing will ever come into existence.
Why?
Avoid the Infinite Regress
Let’s say our universe is nothing without the existence of a prior reality, but that prior reality is nothing without the existence of another prior reality, and so forth ad infinitum.
Then the whole of reality is nothing without prior realities, but we have no end to the prior realities, which are nothing.
In short, the sum total of all the realities which are nothing without other realities, which are nothing without other realities, which are nothing…
Is NOTHING.
Zero added to itself an infinite number of times is zero.
You can read a fuller explanation here, or in chapters three through five of the book. If you do not have at least one “reality which is NOT nothing prior to a beginning” (like God), then you have no reality at all.
https://strangenotions.com/why-an-infinite-regress-among-proper-causes-is-metaphysically-impossible/
And this We Call God
Now it just so happens that there can be ONLY one reality that does not have a beginning, is not dependent on anything else for its existence, and is not conditioned by time.
The proofs for this are in the book, and it will take too long to explain them here.
The ultimate conclusion is there has to be AT LEAST one “beginningless being.”
And there can be ONLY one “beginningless being” – and this is what we mean by “God.”
Now let’s return to your question.
The reason we ask the question “why does the universe have a cause?”
Or “why do we have to explain how the universe came from nothing to something?”
is because there is an increasing amount of evidence from physics, the philosophy of mathematics, and metaphysics that imply and even require that the universe has a BEGINNING.
You can see some of this evidence on our Physics FAQ (or chapters one through five of “New Proofs”).
The Borde-Vilenkin-Guth 2003 theorem, entropy, the Borde-Vilenkin 1993 theorem, etc.
https://www.magiscenter.com/evidence-of-a-beginning-of-the-universe-from-the-borde-vilenkin-guth-bvg-theorem-god-modern-physics-8/
“Where Did God Come From?” Doesn’t Apply
These questions don’t come up with respect to God because there is NO EVIDENCE that God had a beginning, or is dependent on something for its existence, or is conditioned by time.
Indeed, as noted above, there must be at least one being – and only one being (i.e. God).
That does not have a beginning, is not dependent on anything for its existence, and is not conditioned by time.
I hope this helps you with your query.
If you want a more complete explanation, please read “New Proofs for the Existence of God” or download our
https://www.magiscenter.com/product/new-proofs-for-the-existence-of-god/
Physics FAQ.
https://www.magiscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Magis_FactSheet.pdf
Sincerely,
Fr. Robert Spitzer, S.J., Ph.D.
Sep 30, 2018 02:22:09 #
Sep 30, 2018 02:25:59 #
PeterS,
You're imagination.
Did you go the web links to read and verify the information ?
You're imagination.
Did you go the web links to read and verify the information ?
PeterS wrote:
Mans imagination.
Mans imagination.
Sep 30, 2018 02:47:23 #
Doc110 wrote:
PeterS,
You're imagination.
Did you go the web links to read and verify the information ?
You're imagination.
Did you go the web links to read and verify the information ?
Here's a question: if god is real then what purpose does the universe serve? I mean the only thing necessary for life as we know it would be a planet, a moon, a sun, and a god to do all the rest. Instead, we have this incredibly vast universe which just by chance, every element necessary for life is made by it. Why the redundancy or did god now know how to make the elements necessary for life?
If you want to talk about god might I suggest you leave the universe out of it because the only thing it can provide is anecdotal evidence at best and since god is a supernatural being and science only capable of dealing with the natural world there exists no means to prove a god anyway. Might I suggest you have faith in god and let that be all you need to back up your belief because if that isn't enough no amount of science will be able to prove that when sprung from man's imagination...
Sep 30, 2018 06:37:07 #
Ah, PeterS,
There in-lies exactly your personal conundrum with God.
Can you even conceive of Gods masterful plan for the universe.
PeterS you think as man would, but can't fathom or think as to how God has planed the universe.
Since God is omni-present and can go back and forth in time.
PeterS your imagination is in one dimensional and God plan and design is multi-dimensional and is universe is infinite.
God is the universe PeterS.
That would be like cutting limbs and organs off your body, when you say these things. You think myopically God thinks with a multi-purposely and with design.
You see Peter, you only see in man's thinking, not how God's intelligent-design.
Yes man's science is soooooo, limiting and we still can't conceive the natural senses can we PeterS.
Yet we see God's majesty all around us, in nature, in engineering, in biology, in the planetary design, with the very computer that you see and type with.
That is the very conundrum that you speak with,
What is Gods plan and design with man and women ?
There in-lies exactly your personal conundrum with God.
Can you even conceive of Gods masterful plan for the universe.
PeterS you think as man would, but can't fathom or think as to how God has planed the universe.
Since God is omni-present and can go back and forth in time.
PeterS your imagination is in one dimensional and God plan and design is multi-dimensional and is universe is infinite.
God is the universe PeterS.
That would be like cutting limbs and organs off your body, when you say these things. You think myopically God thinks with a multi-purposely and with design.
You see Peter, you only see in man's thinking, not how God's intelligent-design.
Yes man's science is soooooo, limiting and we still can't conceive the natural senses can we PeterS.
Yet we see God's majesty all around us, in nature, in engineering, in biology, in the planetary design, with the very computer that you see and type with.
That is the very conundrum that you speak with,
What is Gods plan and design with man and women ?
Sep 30, 2018 07:31:29 #
Doc110 wrote:
Ah, PeterS, br br There in-lies exactly your pers... (show quote)
You didn't answer my question. Why do we need a universe when we have a god?
Sep 30, 2018 09:12:43 #
Because God, is the Universe and is the universe that he created, and they can't be separated, as I answered you before.
God is the Universe, you think as man does in a limited way.
PeterS, you don't and can't understand all the motions of science and scientific theories that God has designed and is so immensely multi-faceted, God created and orchestrated, this fantastic ever expanding universe, that only he created.
You're only atom's of created master design's of DNA strands, chromosomes, peptides, lipids, proteins and soluble fats and water that make up a human body.
And lets not forget that you have a conscious mind that can think for it's self and is so completely different from any plants and animals.
"I am, that I am." That is the real question here, PeterS.
God is the Universe, you think as man does in a limited way.
PeterS, you don't and can't understand all the motions of science and scientific theories that God has designed and is so immensely multi-faceted, God created and orchestrated, this fantastic ever expanding universe, that only he created.
You're only atom's of created master design's of DNA strands, chromosomes, peptides, lipids, proteins and soluble fats and water that make up a human body.
And lets not forget that you have a conscious mind that can think for it's self and is so completely different from any plants and animals.
"I am, that I am." That is the real question here, PeterS.
Sep 30, 2018 13:19:24 #
Doc,
God is separate and apart from His creation.
God is distinct from His creation. God is above and beyond all the finite things He has made, and while God may choose to interact with and even fellowship with His creation, the things God brought into existence do not share in His divine essence or Being.
In most forms of Hinduism, the universe is considered to be a manifestation of the divine essence and thus to, in one sense or another, be a part of or an expression of "God." Similar ideas have become increasingly popular in the west in the last few centuries, such as pantheism (the belief that "God" and the material universe are synonymous) and panentheism (the belief that, while God transcends creation, the created universe exists in God and is a part of God's being). In each of these ideas, the distinction between God and creation is blurred or outright denied.
The God of the Bible, however, is not like this at all. God exists wholly apart from His creation. He does not need the universe, and the universe is not part of His being or nature. God created all things outside Himself rather than merely emanating them out from His own essence. God is not the universe, and the universe is not part of God.
From Beginning to End: The creation account in Genesis 1:1-2:24 is clearly a description of God creating, forming, and fashioning a universe entirely distinct from Himself. God does not "become," "emanate," or otherwise extend His own being into any of the things formed. God creates. He commands, and things come into being. He makes man in His image, but not after His kind or out of His substance. He forms man from the dirt and brings him to life as a separate and distinct living thing. From the opening words of the Bible, we are immediately confronted with the fact that God is separate from and superior to the things He has made. Indeed, our worship of God is rooted, in part, in the fact that He is our distinct creator and sustainer. He is a God utterly outside ourselves to whom we owe our finite existence.
"Let them praise the name of the Lord, For He commanded and they were created. He has also established them forever and ever; He has made a decree which will not pass away," (Psalm 148:5-6).
"For the Lord is a great God And a great King above all gods, In whose hand are the depths of the earth, The peaks of the mountains are His also. The sea is His, for it was He who made it, And His hands formed the dry land. Come, let us worship and bow down, Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker. For He is our God, And we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand," (Psalm 95:3-7).
The grandeur of God is magnified in the very fact that He cannot be identified with any other existing thing:
"'To whom then will you liken Me That I would be his equal?' says the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high And see who has created these stars, The One who leads forth their host by number, He calls them all by name; Because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power, Not one of them is missing," (Isaiah 40:25-26).
The last book of the Bible, like the first, confronts us with the fact that God is not His creation, and His creation owes Him worship and sole allegiance:
"And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, 'To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever,'” (Revelation 5:13).
From beginning to end, the Bible presents us with a God who is distinct from creation and makes that central to our relationship to Him. This is not a tertiary fact, but rather a foundational biblical truth.
You think as unredeemed, pagan man thinks.
Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry
God is separate and apart from His creation.
God is distinct from His creation. God is above and beyond all the finite things He has made, and while God may choose to interact with and even fellowship with His creation, the things God brought into existence do not share in His divine essence or Being.
In most forms of Hinduism, the universe is considered to be a manifestation of the divine essence and thus to, in one sense or another, be a part of or an expression of "God." Similar ideas have become increasingly popular in the west in the last few centuries, such as pantheism (the belief that "God" and the material universe are synonymous) and panentheism (the belief that, while God transcends creation, the created universe exists in God and is a part of God's being). In each of these ideas, the distinction between God and creation is blurred or outright denied.
The God of the Bible, however, is not like this at all. God exists wholly apart from His creation. He does not need the universe, and the universe is not part of His being or nature. God created all things outside Himself rather than merely emanating them out from His own essence. God is not the universe, and the universe is not part of God.
From Beginning to End: The creation account in Genesis 1:1-2:24 is clearly a description of God creating, forming, and fashioning a universe entirely distinct from Himself. God does not "become," "emanate," or otherwise extend His own being into any of the things formed. God creates. He commands, and things come into being. He makes man in His image, but not after His kind or out of His substance. He forms man from the dirt and brings him to life as a separate and distinct living thing. From the opening words of the Bible, we are immediately confronted with the fact that God is separate from and superior to the things He has made. Indeed, our worship of God is rooted, in part, in the fact that He is our distinct creator and sustainer. He is a God utterly outside ourselves to whom we owe our finite existence.
"Let them praise the name of the Lord, For He commanded and they were created. He has also established them forever and ever; He has made a decree which will not pass away," (Psalm 148:5-6).
"For the Lord is a great God And a great King above all gods, In whose hand are the depths of the earth, The peaks of the mountains are His also. The sea is His, for it was He who made it, And His hands formed the dry land. Come, let us worship and bow down, Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker. For He is our God, And we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand," (Psalm 95:3-7).
The grandeur of God is magnified in the very fact that He cannot be identified with any other existing thing:
"'To whom then will you liken Me That I would be his equal?' says the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high And see who has created these stars, The One who leads forth their host by number, He calls them all by name; Because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power, Not one of them is missing," (Isaiah 40:25-26).
The last book of the Bible, like the first, confronts us with the fact that God is not His creation, and His creation owes Him worship and sole allegiance:
"And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, 'To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever,'” (Revelation 5:13).
From beginning to end, the Bible presents us with a God who is distinct from creation and makes that central to our relationship to Him. This is not a tertiary fact, but rather a foundational biblical truth.
You think as unredeemed, pagan man thinks.
Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry
Doc110 wrote:
Because God, is the Universe and is the universe t... (show quote)
Sep 30, 2018 13:31:11 #
Zemirah,
How subtle of you, still a scheming protestant witch.
Next time you really need to prove factual evidence in your next triad and anti-Catholic rhetoric that the Catholic Church is a cult/pagan and worship's idols ?
Zemirah, You still haven't done it, and have (NOT) proved anything scriptural, biblical and or historical, you only provide "unverifiable Protestant" religious objections.
Your still a Protestant a ignorant simpleton with an ignorant brain. Hinduism Buddhism, Shintoism has noting in common with the Bible.
Have you read the Hindu Bhagavad-Gita ?
You didn't supply verifiable facts, just opinions.
Where are the website url links ?
this is what a URL link looks like http://www.biblehub.com or http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm
Just because you think the information is correct, (Does-Not) make the statement and comment correct.
Are you daft woman, or don't you think that I can't question your credibility.
Now you your answering for God, how pretentious of you Zemirah, I know that you want to sit at the right hand of God, and all, put please this diatribe is ridiculous.
God caused the 7 plagues in Egypt. He intervened in man's and earth's affairs to give his people the Israelites their freedom after 400 years.
God also gave the Virgin Mary to be full of "Grace," born without sin and give birth to her only son Jesus Christ. He intervened in man's and earth's affairs to Give salvation to earths people with his only begotten son the Christ, the Messiah Jesus bar David of Bethlehem-Nazareth.
God is the Universe ,and he can control every thing as with in Genesis, he formed the earth the sun the stars in 7 days.
Give me a break and try and dispute these Biblical facts.
How subtle of you, still a scheming protestant witch.
Next time you really need to prove factual evidence in your next triad and anti-Catholic rhetoric that the Catholic Church is a cult/pagan and worship's idols ?
Zemirah, You still haven't done it, and have (NOT) proved anything scriptural, biblical and or historical, you only provide "unverifiable Protestant" religious objections.
Your still a Protestant a ignorant simpleton with an ignorant brain. Hinduism Buddhism, Shintoism has noting in common with the Bible.
Have you read the Hindu Bhagavad-Gita ?
You didn't supply verifiable facts, just opinions.
Where are the website url links ?
this is what a URL link looks like http://www.biblehub.com or http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm
Just because you think the information is correct, (Does-Not) make the statement and comment correct.
Are you daft woman, or don't you think that I can't question your credibility.
Now you your answering for God, how pretentious of you Zemirah, I know that you want to sit at the right hand of God, and all, put please this diatribe is ridiculous.
God caused the 7 plagues in Egypt. He intervened in man's and earth's affairs to give his people the Israelites their freedom after 400 years.
God also gave the Virgin Mary to be full of "Grace," born without sin and give birth to her only son Jesus Christ. He intervened in man's and earth's affairs to Give salvation to earths people with his only begotten son the Christ, the Messiah Jesus bar David of Bethlehem-Nazareth.
God is the Universe ,and he can control every thing as with in Genesis, he formed the earth the sun the stars in 7 days.
Give me a break and try and dispute these Biblical facts.
Zemirah wrote:
Doc, br br God is separate and apart from His cre... (show quote)
Sep 30, 2018 13:53:51 #
You know the truth when you see it, Doc.
Foaming at the mouth on your part makes it no less truth.
Foaming at the mouth on your part makes it no less truth.
Doc110 wrote:
Zemirah, br br How subtle of you, still a schemin... (show quote)
Sep 30, 2018 13:58:50 #
Doc110 wrote:
Because God, is the Universe and is the universe t... (show quote)
So god is that which is unnecessary for the creation of life? I guess on that I would have to agree. And Apes, Dolphins, Whales all are self-aware. Man isn't unique, simply a little further along the evolutionary chain.
Sep 30, 2018 14:01:46 #
I'm early replying to your paeanistic sly of hand protestant barb comment.
I just don't like you as a Protestant ignorant person,
and I'm saying this and smiling right back at your vitriolic obtuse belligerent bellicose Protestant attitude, So back at ya, Zemirah.
So I see your one-upmanship and raise the Religious stakes.
Prove factually and with web link URL sites that the Catholic Church is pagan, and worships idolatry.
That should shut you up for about a year or so . . .
Have a nice day
Doc110
I just don't like you as a Protestant ignorant person,
and I'm saying this and smiling right back at your vitriolic obtuse belligerent bellicose Protestant attitude, So back at ya, Zemirah.
So I see your one-upmanship and raise the Religious stakes.
Prove factually and with web link URL sites that the Catholic Church is pagan, and worships idolatry.
That should shut you up for about a year or so . . .
Have a nice day
Doc110
Zemirah wrote:
You know the truth when you see it, Doc.
Foaming at the mouth on your part makes it no less truth.
Foaming at the mouth on your part makes it no less truth.
Sep 30, 2018 14:20:38 #
Sep 30, 2018 16:05:42 #
Ms. Zemirah,
Still cant come up with any truthful facts about Catholic paganism, Occult practices.
Such Protestant deceitfulness.
Native Americans have a word for this called "Suglue" basically it means (Bullsht_er)
Still cant come up with any truthful facts about Catholic paganism, Occult practices.
Such Protestant deceitfulness.
Native Americans have a word for this called "Suglue" basically it means (Bullsht_er)
Zemirah wrote:
Hardly.
Hardly.
Sep 30, 2018 19:42:53 #
Every Catholic edifice I've ever entered, in every city and every country, has shrieked "Demonic Worship!," witnessed by the spiritually lost and blind who are kneeling before statues, which are graven images, rather than worshiping God "in spirit and in truth" as He has commanded us. (John 4:24)
"God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”
"And I am John, the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had shown me these things.
But he said to me, “Do not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”… (Revelation 22:8-9)
In large famous cathedrals, and small country chapels, always, you bear witness to your ancient paganism, through your "graven images," and your poor, lost and uninformed parishioners who bow before Satan, in denial of God's Holy Scripture.
"God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”
"And I am John, the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had shown me these things.
But he said to me, “Do not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”… (Revelation 22:8-9)
In large famous cathedrals, and small country chapels, always, you bear witness to your ancient paganism, through your "graven images," and your poor, lost and uninformed parishioners who bow before Satan, in denial of God's Holy Scripture.
Doc110 wrote:
Ms. Zemirah,
Still cant come up with any truthful facts about Catholic paganism, Occult practices.
Such Protestant deceitfulness.
Native Americans have a word for this called "Suglue" basically it means (Bullsht_er)
Still cant come up with any truthful facts about Catholic paganism, Occult practices.
Such Protestant deceitfulness.
Native Americans have a word for this called "Suglue" basically it means (Bullsht_er)
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