Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

We as individuals do not have all the right answers. .
We draw our different conclusions on less than perfect grounds.
We disagree on issue that are & should be left as just personal issues.

But there is one way we do differ.
Some look at life & support issues with political agendas.
Agendas fueled by the issues that divide us.

I am seeking ways to find agreement in what should be done to live with each other.

I am not about winning the game.
I only want to be in the game.
Life should not be looked as a game.

Life should not be looked as winning or losing.
Winning at the expense of some ones loss is hollow.
It is through cooperation that man kind advances.

Wars only produce disaster & dismay.
Where perhaps the only gain is living for another day.

I do not wish to control your thoughts.
I as an individual feel that there is hope for man kind to live with dignity & respect for each other.
I feel that my personal view of others is one of greater & deeper respect than others.
If only by a small margin.

At a point in time when we should be reducing our divisions.
They are only becoming more diverse.

On this site we are exposing our self as individuals.
Who we are & what we have in life is only what words we put down here & now.

We come together as individuals.
Many bring issues & answers from out side this site to bolster their message.
If we wish to be looked at as individuals & retain the greatest level of individual freedom.
We have to stop listening so close to those that seek to keep us divided.

If any of us truly wish to be free as individuals we need to help others have that same freedom also.
But if we are to understand each other we need to speak from with in our self.

Thank you & have a nice day!

Liberty Tree

Your view is noteworthy, but unfortunately is way too idealistic to work in the reality of the world in which we live.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

When we shape our system of morals, rules & laws are we not to be idealistic?
In effect you are saying it is okay as it is now for you.

Is the reality you speak of one that some deservers to have more than others?
While others deserve nothing?

The bottom line is:
Is it okay for those that deserve more can use that extra to buy even more gains, by buying politicians to change the laws?
So are you in full support of that reality?

Can you see your self as perhaps having just a bit of dismay in the over use or that power some have?
Could it be possible to have a little easing on the use of that influence by some?

Airforceone

Well thought out post and over the last few weeks I have questioned myself as to most of my responses and have come to an understanding that even though I responded with insults when I was insulted it’s the wrong way to respond.

I wrote a topic titled (How did we get to d******e identity politics) please take the time to read it. I would be very interested in your response.

I believe the d******e politics has been brought out by Trump. In most cases he has attacked the messenger and ignored the message. This Russian investigation has brought to light a lot of criminal activity as shown with all his inner circle pleading guilty to felonies. People don’t stand in a courtroom and plead guilty if there innocent.

But what Trump has done is denigrated our career officials, ruined careers,FBI CIA are full of corruption, the MSM is all f**e news, I believe Vladimir Putin over our 19 intel agencies.

The constant lies from our president on his affairs that turned out to be true. Trump supporters have dug in and refuse to even except the fact that some of the aligations are true. I read there post and the reseach shows there using conspiracy theories to justify there perception.

I do believe we need to help each and get to the facts. Afterall perception is not reality.

Liberty Tree

I am not saying the way thing are is OK, but is is reality.

Airforceone

It’s not reality is perception it’s called an era of individualism and identity politics.

We have to stop the conspiracy theory. We need to identify a problem and then thru our ideological beliefs discuss the common sense methods to fix our nation’s problems.

Now it’s a process of attacking the messenger and ignor the message.

We have listen to a president denigrate 24 career officials at the FBI the CIA. We listen to how corrupt the Justice Department FBI and CIA are. Do you realize how many people work for these agencies that would have to buy into all this so called Obstruction.Then we listen to our president stand with Putin and denigrate all of our Intel agencies. Are we talking a perception that Trump has laid out or is this reality.

Yes the reality is we are listening to a pathological liar that’s trying to create a perception that anybody that does not swear aligence to him is corrupt that is the reality.

vernon

As usual you can not make a comment without denigrating our president.As far as d******e politics it wasen't President Trump
that brought trouble to the streets It was the likes of bath house Obama and that ignorant b***h Watters who brought people
to the streets and kept them there.You say President Trump is responsible for criminals like they were doing wrong during his presidency and that is absolutely wrong.Manfort was investigated for these crimes 12 yrs ago and the govt chose not file charges,it had nothing to do with Pres Trump.Cohn is going to jail for something he did not the pres.
You say he has denigrated our career bureaucrats but they are criminals they are criminals headed for jail for at least attempted s******n and probably much worse.now open your eyes to the t***h for a change.

Airforceone

How do you know they are criminals is it because Trump said so. I am not trying to denigrate Trump I am trying to identify a problem or a lie or misinformation. All we have from our president is denigrating the messenger and ignor the message. Every person in the FBI or CIA that was invovled with the Russian investigation has been attacked by Trump. So let’s discuss these people and who they are and there accomplishments over the last 25 years.

vernon

I h**e to say this but President Trump hasen't said anything about them he has had words for Sessions and Frankenstine .The congress is the one going after them.

As for your last couple of sentences I would say the president gets jumped on he jumps back.There is no Russia investigation
and never was.But it has proven the criminals are hillery and her group and colluding with Russia for uranium and money.
As far as the fbi and cia the people have committed crimes and that is what counts they don't get a free ride if they did something 25 yrs ago.But what comes to mind is Waco and Ruby Ridge.

vernon

Airforceone

What are you talking about that’s why Congress unanimously v**ed to put Mueller in charge of the investigation because Trump fired Comey. Every Intel agency in this country have said the Russian hacked into our e******n. Not sure where you got that perception.

What people have committed crimes at the FBI or justice department that’s Trump just attacking the messengers and ignor the message.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Floyd, I agree with much of what you say. Others (very few) have shared similar sentiments only to be on other post found insulting parties, leaders and supporters.

Intelligenly battling policies, agendas and personal political views without making it personal is possible but rare.

The best way to remain civil would be ignoring the most h**eful and/or having a moral/ethical code and not crossing the anger line.

Myself it has taken a turning point to manage the discipline of consistent friendly exchange from a position of faith, but does not lesson the strength in my message.

I'm curious if you will have the discipline of complete civility consistent with your post. If so cudo's in advance.

The h**e and division after November 2016 was not short lived knee jerk reaction from the left. Looking at social media the populous is ever increasing, no longer just h**e but full out war.

The question becomes how is one to exchange once they have been labeled the enemy?

Take care

Airforceone

I myself have been an offender of insults. Through Floyd’s post I am attempting to be civil. I have always responded to insults by insulting. I was Getting frustrated with the amount of reseach time over the years in order to post my perception of facts and got greeted with insults.

But we had a president that gave a press conference yesterday that every other word out of his mouth was an insult.
(CHUCK SHUMER AND HIS BAND OF CON ARTIST)
(DEMOCRATS ARE NOTHING BUT CON ARTIST)
(LYING MEDIA, F**E NEWS) I could go on and on

His easy to debunk lies when he said Obama got complacent and didn’t appoint judges. Mitch McConnell blocked from a hearing or up and down v**e 198 appointees of Obama.

I could go on and on with his easy to debunk lies in that press conference. So getting back to the topic of being civil yes I agree I will ignor insults I will attempt to be civil and just ignor insults.

But when the president lives on insults and lies it’s difficult to be civil.

Your last quote gave me pause to reflect on being civil and I hope everybody sees it because I won’t soon forget it.

(HOW IS ONE TO EXCHANGE ONCE THEY HAVE BEEN LABELED THE ENEMY)

Thank you

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

I like to think I respond to people in an individual way.
Our exchanges on the open forums is open to interception by others.
Who may take the post as it applies to them.

We all put varying efforts in to our posts & the clarity varies.
I see there has been a good over all civility growing on this site.

The patonce & under standing being show is heartening.
I feel we are now at a time where what you are saying here is a most fitting thought.

It is my hope that I live up to the standard you have proposed.

Thank You & have a great day.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

We do differ but I'm just so done and over the jabs. It's to different degrees both intellectual and emotional regardless of left or right.
PeterS was a turning point for me when he humanized by sharing personal mile stones in his life. I realized if there were no politics I would like this guy PeterS, also looking in instead of out I wasn't being my true self which is patient, caring and kind to others. This forum had begun to t***sform how I thought about others and not in a good way.
When the actions of others begins negative changes, time to reflect and change....
Then the next question becomes who is the person we're talking to , not the politics and can we not allow outside forces to make us enemies?
I'll make you a deal and stick to the topic. Not "you lefties" or " your of the elk" or dipstick....
Is there something wrong with someone defending their views, policies they believe in, regardless how much we disagree?
Since Obama and Trump were elected it has become a crime to have different beliefs, isn't that nuts?

Take care