OldSchool
Loc: Moving to the Red State of Utah soon!
Zyro0713 wrote:
I classify myself as a "freely-thinking" citizen, who demands more than a bunch of doubletalk and partisan-based idiocy, form those who are in authority, and especially from our now "bought and paid for" media outlets.
I guess that makes me a non-conformist. I do not v**e along party-lines, I v**e according to my beliefs in the candidate's' stand upon the issues, I gave up on political party cronyism a long time ago.
Welcome aboard.
I used to think this way, and at onetime v**ed for whom I considered the best candidate regardless of party. But, I do not v**e that way any more. I v**e straight ticket, and that be the Republican ticket, for now. When the Tea Party becomes a viable party I will change parties as I am not fond of the GOP establishment (bunch of liberal good old boys). The reason I stopped v****g for a Democrat candidate, even if I considered that candidate a better candidate, is that the Democrats v**e lock step with the what the leadership wants, regardless of their true beliefs. If they buck that trend, they get no help from the leadership (backing or money) when running for re-e******n. Oh, you'll see some Democrat v**es siding with the Republicans on occasion, but it is only when the Democrat leadership allows them when they know they have the v**e locked up...this is a phony carrot thrown to their constituents to show they're supposedly bipartisan.
Zyro0713 wrote:
I don't see how we have accumulated such debt deficits. I would like to know to whom it is, that we owe all of this debt; and how it became so.
It's very simply really, but very unconstitutional. Say we need to spend $1 billion dollars for a program. What do we do? We go to the FED as ask for $1 billion dollars. They in turn go to the mint and tell them to print up $1 billion dollars. After that is deposited in their bank, they "LOAN" it to Congress so they can spend it. Now that loan has to be repaid in addition to the interest on that loan. Now the FED does not have that money in the bank, or anywhere else for that matter. They just pull it out of thin air. They have no investment in it and they do not own it, but they non the less loan it to our government anyway at interest and we are obligated to pay it back.
According to our Constitution, congress is the only body authorized to print money, anyone else is just forging it. Now if that bank is forging our money and it is not real, then how can we be liable for it? The banks have a s**m going that is k*****g this country and at the same time making money hand over fist. If the t***h be known, we can never repay that debt and the bank owns this country.
Other countries like Germany have given us gold for safe keeping, yet when they ask for it back, we can't give it to them. Why is that? It's very simple really. This bank figures that VERY FEW actually ask for gold in place of the paper money they were given, so they use it for collateral on loans they make to other countries. In some cases, they sell the gold to other countries, but that country doesn't ask for the gold, only the promise that it will be there when they ask for it. Now the bank still has that gold, so they sell it to someone else with the same results. They don't take position of it either, so they sell it again. They may sell this gold to 5 different countries, yet none of them ask for the gold, just the promise of it. Now Germany, the ones that actually own the gold ask for it back, but the bank can't give it to them, because they have sold it. Now they are in a bind and can't give it back, so they promise Germany they can have it back, but it will take 5 years before they can take it.
Now do you understand debt?????????????? It's the biggest s**m in the world and is going to bring us down.........
MrEd wrote:
It's very simply really, but very unconstitutional. Say we need to spend $1 billion dollars for a program. What do we do? We go to the FED as ask for $1 billion dollars. They in turn go to the mint and tell them to print up $1 billion dollars. After that is deposited in their bank, they "LOAN" it to Congress so they can spend it. Now that loan has to be repaid in addition to the interest on that loan. Now the FED does not have that money in the bank, or anywhere else for that matter. They just pull it out of thin air. They have no investment in it and they do not own it, but they non the less loan it to our government anyway at interest and we are obligated to pay it back.
According to our Constitution, congress is the only body authorized to print money, anyone else is just forging it. Now if that bank is forging our money and it is not real, then how can we be liable for it? The banks have a s**m going that is k*****g this country and at the same time making money hand over fist. If the t***h be known, we can never repay that debt and the bank owns this country.
Other countries like Germany have given us gold for safe keeping, yet when they ask for it back, we can't give it to them. Why is that? It's very simple really. This bank figures that VERY FEW actually ask for gold in place of the paper money they were given, so they use it for collateral on loans they make to other countries. In some cases, they sell the gold to other countries, but that country doesn't ask for the gold, only the promise that it will be there when they ask for it. Now the bank still has that gold, so they sell it to someone else with the same results. They don't take position of it either, so they sell it again. They may sell this gold to 5 different countries, yet none of them ask for the gold, just the promise of it. Now Germany, the ones that actually own the gold ask for it back, but the bank can't give it to them, because they have sold it. Now they are in a bind and can't give it back, so they promise Germany they can have it back, but it will take 5 years before they can take it.
Now do you understand debt?????????????? It's the biggest s**m in the world and is going to bring us down.........
It's very simply really, but very unconstitutional... (
show quote)
Great explanation. Glad to have you on this site again, friend.
Donmac wrote:
TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DEBT TO ANOTHER COUNTRY JUST DON'T SEEM RIGHT TO ME!
China moves its trade profits from its checking account to US bonds, equivalent to a risk-free, interest-bearing savings account.
If you don't want China to have profits, stop buying Chinese products.
It's all your fault. Kwitcherbellyakin!
Donmac wrote:
TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DEBT TO ANOTHER COUNTRY JUST DON'T SEEM RIGHT TO ME!
China moves its trade profits from its checking account to US bonds, equivalent to a risk-free, interest-bearing savings account.
If you don't want China to have profits, stop buying Chinese products.
It's all your fault. Kwitcherbellyakin!
Zyro0713 wrote:
I don't see how we have accumulated such debt deficits. I would like to know to whom it is, that we owe all of this debt; and how it became so.
US bonds are auctioned by the Treasury to cover the annual budget deficit. The buyers are mostly primary dealers (investment banks) who front for others.
About half of the debt is held by foreigners who had trade profits. For example, China wisely moves its trade profits from its risky, non-interest-bearing checking accounts at US banks into its US bond account at the Fed, equivalent to a risk-free, interest-bearing savings account.
About 10% of domestically-held US bonds are owned by individuals. The rest is owned by pensions, annuities, 401(k) s, insurance, bank reserves, etc.
The Treasury owes about $10T in US bonds. US corporations owe about the same amount to their bond holders. The major difference between the Treasurys debt and US corporate debt is that the Fed can buy the Treasurys debt with cost-free keystrokes and, by law, must return 94% of the interest to the Treasury.
Welcome to the wonderful world of fiat currency!
MrEd wrote:
It's very simply really, but very unconstitutional. Say we need to spend $1 billion dollars for a program. What do we do? We go to the FED as ask for $1 billion dollars. They in turn go to the mint and tell them to print up $1 billion dollars. After that is deposited in their bank, they "LOAN" it to Congress so they can spend it. Now that loan has to be repaid in addition to the interest on that loan. Now the FED does not have that money in the bank, or anywhere else for that matter. They just pull it out of thin air. They have no investment in it and they do not own it, but they non the less loan it to our government anyway at interest and we are obligated to pay it back.
According to our Constitution, congress is the only body authorized to print money, anyone else is just forging it. Now if that bank is forging our money and it is not real, then how can we be liable for it? The banks have a s**m going that is k*****g this country and at the same time making money hand over fist. If the t***h be known, we can never repay that debt and the bank owns this country.
Other countries like Germany have given us gold for safe keeping, yet when they ask for it back, we can't give it to them. Why is that? It's very simple really. This bank figures that VERY FEW actually ask for gold in place of the paper money they were given, so they use it for collateral on loans they make to other countries. In some cases, they sell the gold to other countries, but that country doesn't ask for the gold, only the promise that it will be there when they ask for it. Now the bank still has that gold, so they sell it to someone else with the same results. They don't take position of it either, so they sell it again. They may sell this gold to 5 different countries, yet none of them ask for the gold, just the promise of it. Now Germany, the ones that actually own the gold ask for it back, but the bank can't give it to them, because they have sold it. Now they are in a bind and can't give it back, so they promise Germany they can have it back, but it will take 5 years before they can take it.
Now do you understand debt?????????????? It's the biggest s**m in the world and is going to bring us down.........
It's very simply really, but very unconstitutional... (
show quote)
What you are smoking is not just illegal, it's hallucinatory!
Congress NEVER checks with the treasury to see if there is enough cash in the Treasury. Congress writes a check that never bounces. After cashing the check, the Treasury taxes the public. Any funds spent and not recovered by taxes (the deficit) are saved by the public and becomes its wealth.
The Treasury auctions enough bonds to provide an interest-bearing asset for that wealth. Outstanding US bonds are equivalent to the wealth of the private sector.
MrEd wrote:
It's very simply really, but very unconstitutional. Say we need to spend $1 billion dollars for a program. What do we do? We go to the FED as ask for $1 billion dollars. They in turn go to the mint and tell them to print up $1 billion dollars. After that is deposited in their bank, they "LOAN" it to Congress so they can spend it. Now that loan has to be repaid in addition to the interest on that loan. Now the FED does not have that money in the bank, or anywhere else for that matter. They just pull it out of thin air. They have no investment in it and they do not own it, but they non the less loan it to our government anyway at interest and we are obligated to pay it back.
According to our Constitution, congress is the only body authorized to print money, anyone else is just forging it. Now if that bank is forging our money and it is not real, then how can we be liable for it? The banks have a s**m going that is k*****g this country and at the same time making money hand over fist. If the t***h be known, we can never repay that debt and the bank owns this country.
Other countries like Germany have given us gold for safe keeping, yet when they ask for it back, we can't give it to them. Why is that? It's very simple really. This bank figures that VERY FEW actually ask for gold in place of the paper money they were given, so they use it for collateral on loans they make to other countries. In some cases, they sell the gold to other countries, but that country doesn't ask for the gold, only the promise that it will be there when they ask for it. Now the bank still has that gold, so they sell it to someone else with the same results. They don't take position of it either, so they sell it again. They may sell this gold to 5 different countries, yet none of them ask for the gold, just the promise of it. Now Germany, the ones that actually own the gold ask for it back, but the bank can't give it to them, because they have sold it. Now they are in a bind and can't give it back, so they promise Germany they can have it back, but it will take 5 years before they can take it.
Now do you understand debt?????????????? It's the biggest s**m in the world and is going to bring us down.........
It's very simply really, but very unconstitutional... (
show quote)
What you are smoking is not just illegal, it's hallucinatory!
Congress NEVER checks with the treasury to see if there is enough cash in the Treasury. Congress writes a check that never bounces. After cashing the check, the Treasury taxes the public. Any funds spent and not recovered by taxes (the deficit) are saved by the public and becomes its wealth.
The Treasury auctions enough bonds to provide an interest-bearing asset for that wealth. Outstanding US bonds are equivalent to the wealth of the private sector.
MarvinSussman wrote:
Welcome to the fray! I am the house liberal. Try this on for size:
The goal of a nations economy is to maximize the wealth of the nation by full employment of its resources. When private industry does not fully employ all of the nations resources, it is the duty of a government with fiat currency and a floating exchange rate to employ its idle resources to build infrastructure for our grandchildren while avoiding harmful inflation and a serious trade imbalance.
The wealth of our nation depends only upon its resources and its productive capacity and not upon its accounts. Wh**ever is technically feasible is financially possible. The myth that the powers of Congress are limited by tax revenue vanishes in every crisis, corrupts political dialogue, promotes austere budgets, and destroys our infrastructure.
Our Congress does not need tax revenue for spending. On the contrary, taxpayers need Congress spending to pay their taxes. Congressional spending is the only source of currency.
Think about it. How did the first American taxpayer, a Pilgrim, get legal tender for the first American tax payment? At first, the colonial government was new and had no currency. Tax-anticipation warrants were the only answer and became the only legal tender for paying taxes.
The Governor of the Massachusetts colony, out of thin air, issued warrants as payment for goods and services furnished by the colonists. The warrants would also be the only legal tender for payment of taxes. Without the Governors warrants, the colonists would not be able to pay their taxes. The Pilgrims also used the warrants as money. The warrants became money.
Every householder or business owner ALWAYS checks his bank account before writing a large check. Before passing a spending bill, Congress NEVER checks with the treasury to see if there is enough cash in the Treasurys account. Congress writes a check that never bounces. After cashing the check, the Treasury taxes the public. Any funds spent and not recovered by taxes (the deficit) are saved by the public and becomes its wealth. The Treasury auctions enough bonds to provide an interest-bearing asset for that wealth. Outstanding US bonds are equivalent to the wealth of the private sector.
There is no upper limit on the amount of money Congress can spend, neither in the Constitution nor in any law. The financial assets of the federal government are infinite. Our only problems are inflation and unemployment, not federal debt.
If you could legally print dollars in your attic, why would you balance your budget? You would only have to balance your desires against the well-being of your family. The government does not have to balance its budget. It has to balance inflation against unemployment. Unemployment is winning that fight thanks to austerity nuts.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The essay above is based on works by: (books cost about $10 at Amazon)
*Frank N. Newman, former Deputy Secretary of the US Treasury, recipient of the Treasurys annual Alexander Hamilton award, author of Freedom from National Debt (Two Harbors Press);
*Francis X. Cavanaugh, US Treasury economist for over 30 years, author of: The T***h about the National Debt: Five Myths and One Reality (Harvard Business School Press);
*Warren Mosler, economist, author of Seven Deadly Frauds of Economic Policy (Oxford U. Press);
*Dr. Stephanie Kelton, Chair of the UMKC Economics Department, at NewEconomicPerspectives.org.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
© 2014 Marvin Sussman All Rights Reserved. Permission granted only to copy entirely.
Welcome to the fray! I am the house liberal. Try t... (
show quote)
MARVIN!! You're going to give Zyro the wrong impression! He'll get the idea that some expression of good sense is the norm on this forum.
Neal wrote:
MARVIN!! You're going to give Zyro the wrong impression! He'll get the idea that some expression of good sense is the norm on this forum.
Zyro's thinking about it. The response will tell the tale.
Neal wrote:
MARVIN!! You're going to give Zyro the wrong impression! He'll get the idea that some expression of good sense is the norm on this forum.
Zyro's thinking about it. The response will tell the tale.
MarvinSussman wrote:
Zyro's thinking about it. The response will tell the tale.
Ah well Marv, the world changes slowly and I'm an impatient old man, yet the tomorrows keep coming.
Good luck, good health, and daily reasons to laugh . . .
If you want to reply, then
register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.