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God created the Angels...and they rebelled; God created humans...and they rebelled: why and whose fault is it?
Aug 29, 2018 21:53:10   #
rumitoid
 
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Yet we have sociopaths and psychopaths from the womb. How is that possible for a loving and perfect God? If these aberrations are possible, what else is possible in birth? We are born with a wide spectrum of differences on every aspect of human existence: talents, intellect, physical appearance, place of birth, strengths, weaknesses, defects, athleticism, longevity, g****r, and so on and on. We are not all created equal.


There are horrific genetic disorders that torture innocent children with disfigurement and agony: don't blame God? "The world did this, not God; the world is ruled by Satan." And who created the world and allowed such evil to enter it? If all that God has created carries intrinsic to it such pain, how is God good? And then he supposedly sends his own Son to death, not to really change anything, but to sort of make amends for his mistake of Creation?

To love God, truly and surely, one must come to grips with these questions. They are not easily answered or dismissed. Christians usually by-pass such inquiries with smarmy indulgent smiles: silly neophytes. Though they have no real answers only years of inculcated faith. Please show me some real answers to these questions besides attacks on me. There are real answers, and they are important to have in your quiver.

Reply
Aug 29, 2018 21:59:45   #
proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA
 
rumitoid wrote:
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Yet we have sociopaths and psychopaths from the womb. How is that possible for a loving and perfect God? If these aberrations are possible, what else is possible in birth? We are born with a wide spectrum of differences on every aspect of human existence: talents, intellect, physical appearance, place of birth, strengths, weaknesses, defects, athleticism, longevity, g****r, and so on and on. We are not all created equal.


There are horrific genetic disorders that torture innocent children with disfigurement and agony: don't blame God? "The world did this, not God; the world is ruled by Satan." And who created the world and allowed such evil to enter it? If all that God has created carries intrinsic to it such pain, how is God good? And then he supposedly sends his own Son to death, not to really change anything, but to sort of make amends for his mistake of Creation?

To love God, truly and surely, one must come to grips with these questions. They are not easily answered or dismissed. Christians usually by-pass such inquiries with smarmy indulgent smiles: silly neophytes. Though they have no real answers only years of inculcated faith. Please show me some real answers to these questions besides attacks on me. There are real answers, and they are important to have in your quiver.
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Ye... (show quote)


Must be Trump's fault,right???

Reply
Aug 29, 2018 22:04:19   #
rumitoid
 
proud republican wrote:
Must be Trump's fault,right???


According to prophecy, yes: how astute!

Reply
 
 
Aug 29, 2018 22:05:54   #
woodguru
 
God was an alien, humans were colonized by aliens, it makes the bible make sense

Reply
Aug 29, 2018 22:11:38   #
proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA
 
rumitoid wrote:
According to prophecy, yes: how astute!


I was being sarcastic,Runi...You really need help....

Reply
Aug 29, 2018 23:37:42   #
bobebgtime Loc: Virginia
 
rumitoid wrote:
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Yet we have sociopaths and psychopaths from the womb. How is that possible for a loving and perfect God? If these aberrations are possible, what else is possible in birth? We are born with a wide spectrum of differences on every aspect of human existence: talents, intellect, physical appearance, place of birth, strengths, weaknesses, defects, athleticism, longevity, g****r, and so on and on. We are not all created equal.


There are horrific genetic disorders that torture innocent children with disfigurement and agony: don't blame God? "The world did this, not God; the world is ruled by Satan." And who created the world and allowed such evil to enter it? If all that God has created carries intrinsic to it such pain, how is God good? And then he supposedly sends his own Son to death, not to really change anything, but to sort of make amends for his mistake of Creation?

To love God, truly and surely, one must come to grips with these questions. They are not easily answered or dismissed. Christians usually by-pass such inquiries with smarmy indulgent smiles: silly neophytes. Though they have no real answers only years of inculcated faith. Please show me some real answers to these questions besides attacks on me. There are real answers, and they are important to have in your quiver.
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Ye... (show quote)


Your right about one thing; Clearly, God is not creating those things you noted. Nor do I believe that some invisible evil creature is ruling the world. That’s religion oldest cop out to get around anything they cannot explain. PEOPLE are the reason. And once again you’re right. People suffering terrible experiences will cry, "God, why did You make such a miserable, horrible world?" I do also feel some problems and tragedies are the luck of the draw! I know without doubt, every time my life got screwed up I was at fault. I must take the responsibility for my actions and face the outcome. The only way I have learned any lessons in life is by pain. If it beats the s**t out of me, chances of me repeating that again are slim to none. Of course that’s just me. I don’t have answers for you or anyone else.

Reply
Aug 30, 2018 01:37:18   #
JW
 
rumitoid wrote:
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Yet we have sociopaths and psychopaths from the womb. How is that possible for a loving and perfect God? If these aberrations are possible, what else is possible in birth? We are born with a wide spectrum of differences on every aspect of human existence: talents, intellect, physical appearance, place of birth, strengths, weaknesses, defects, athleticism, longevity, g****r, and so on and on. We are not all created equal.


There are horrific genetic disorders that torture innocent children with disfigurement and agony: don't blame God? "The world did this, not God; the world is ruled by Satan." And who created the world and allowed such evil to enter it? If all that God has created carries intrinsic to it such pain, how is God good? And then he supposedly sends his own Son to death, not to really change anything, but to sort of make amends for his mistake of Creation?

To love God, truly and surely, one must come to grips with these questions. They are not easily answered or dismissed. Christians usually by-pass such inquiries with smarmy indulgent smiles: silly neophytes. Though they have no real answers only years of inculcated faith. Please show me some real answers to these questions besides attacks on me. There are real answers, and they are important to have in your quiver.
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Ye... (show quote)


If there was a loving God, there would not be bot flies.

Adding a side note: The Hebrew people were historically into child sacrifice. Sacrificing the Son of God is consistent with the historical behavior of the ancient Hebrew people. The symbolism is important to the Christian narrative in establishing the original Jewish cult called Christianity. Christ's sacrifice assigns old ways to history and His newer, kinder philosophy then governs.

Reply
 
 
Aug 30, 2018 02:31:00   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
You are missing a big chunk of the creation story. G*d did create us in his own image, no disease, war, or any of the problems you mention. Man and woman were created, separate and with their own role to play. He did not just create a shell, He created the gifts you mention or talents. Then they broke the law. When G*d visited them.... he spoke first to the man who gave away his authority by blaming Eve. Eve then gave away her authority by blaming the snake. How do I get this, who was the first creature G*d spoke to when all three were banned from the Garden? G*d addressed them in order of authority. He spoke first to the snake because he did not give away his authority to any other creation, then the woman, and finally the man.

Once they left the Garden, all physical law came into affect and G*d was no longer caused good or evil to happen to them. Not an absentee Father exactly, but much less involved in His creation's decision making. G*d became more or less a bystander, intervening only when He decided and for His own reasons.

The couple were no longer perfect, now they had the natural laws to govern their lives; Attraction, Polarity, Rhythm, Relativity, Law of Cause and Effect, G****r and Gestation, and Perpetual T***smutation of Energy would forever be part of their lives and that of all mankind.

Snake, evil, the Christian Satan... regardless of the name, he now had authority and control. But, G*d put a failsafe or a way out for His creation, He gave them free will. You can be much more selective of your spouse (that is why we often employ a matchmaker), you can chose to eat and sleep well. You can avoid drinking or smoking. You can actually live a very long and healthy life and have children who are healthy. All one need do is exercise the only gift that G*d provided the couple from the start and allowed to leave the garden with, free will.

Blame G*d, well He gave us an option and free will to exercise that option. G*d no longer creates individual bodies nor places us in circumstances such as place of birth or even provide us with unique abilities.... What is still individually created in perfection is our perfect spirit or soul.

rumitoid wrote:
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Yet we have sociopaths and psychopaths from the womb. How is that possible for a loving and perfect God? If these aberrations are possible, what else is possible in birth? We are born with a wide spectrum of differences on every aspect of human existence: talents, intellect, physical appearance, place of birth, strengths, weaknesses, defects, athleticism, longevity, g****r, and so on and on. We are not all created equal.


There are horrific genetic disorders that torture innocent children with disfigurement and agony: don't blame God? "The world did this, not God; the world is ruled by Satan." And who created the world and allowed such evil to enter it? If all that God has created carries intrinsic to it such pain, how is God good? And then he supposedly sends his own Son to death, not to really change anything, but to sort of make amends for his mistake of Creation?

To love God, truly and surely, one must come to grips with these questions. They are not easily answered or dismissed. Christians usually by-pass such inquiries with smarmy indulgent smiles: silly neophytes. Though they have no real answers only years of inculcated faith. Please show me some real answers to these questions besides attacks on me. There are real answers, and they are important to have in your quiver.
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Ye... (show quote)

Reply
Aug 30, 2018 05:17:24   #
Kevyn
 
rumitoid wrote:
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Yet we have sociopaths and psychopaths from the womb. How is that possible for a loving and perfect God? If these aberrations are possible, what else is possible in birth? We are born with a wide spectrum of differences on every aspect of human existence: talents, intellect, physical appearance, place of birth, strengths, weaknesses, defects, athleticism, longevity, g****r, and so on and on. We are not all created equal.


There are horrific genetic disorders that torture innocent children with disfigurement and agony: don't blame God? "The world did this, not God; the world is ruled by Satan." And who created the world and allowed such evil to enter it? If all that God has created carries intrinsic to it such pain, how is God good? And then he supposedly sends his own Son to death, not to really change anything, but to sort of make amends for his mistake of Creation?been

To love God, truly and surely, one must come to grips with these questions. They are not easily answered or dismissed. Christians usually by-pass such inquiries with smarmy indulgent smiles: silly neophytes. Though they have no real answers only years of inculcated faith. Please show me some real answers to these questions besides attacks on me. There are real answers, and they are important to have in your quiver.
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Ye... (show quote)

Questions of faith of this nature will go unanswered or answered with rage. You are engaging a group of people who when confronted with indisputable evidence day after day that their i***t Pumpkinfuhrer has been lying to them refuse to accept the facts. They have conned by a half slick used car salesman and won’t admit it. Now you are challenging a bizarre creation myth that has been rammed down their throats for their entire lives.

Reply
Aug 30, 2018 06:41:52   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
rumitoid wrote:
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Yet we have sociopaths and psychopaths from the womb. How is that possible for a loving and perfect God? If these aberrations are possible, what else is possible in birth? We are born with a wide spectrum of differences on every aspect of human existence: talents, intellect, physical appearance, place of birth, strengths, weaknesses, defects, athleticism, longevity, g****r, and so on and on. We are not all created equal.


There are horrific genetic disorders that torture innocent children with disfigurement and agony: don't blame God? "The world did this, not God; the world is ruled by Satan." And who created the world and allowed such evil to enter it? If all that God has created carries intrinsic to it such pain, how is God good? And then he supposedly sends his own Son to death, not to really change anything, but to sort of make amends for his mistake of Creation?

To love God, truly and surely, one must come to grips with these questions. They are not easily answered or dismissed. Christians usually by-pass such inquiries with smarmy indulgent smiles: silly neophytes. Though they have no real answers only years of inculcated faith. Please show me some real answers to these questions besides attacks on me. There are real answers, and they are important to have in your quiver.
There is an expression: God does not make junk. Ye... (show quote)




Rumi,
The Bible describes God as holy (Isaiah 6:3), righteous (Psalm 7:11), just (Deuteronomy 32:4), and sovereign (Daniel 4:17-25). These attributes tell us the following about God: (1) God is capable of preventing evil, and (2) God desires to rid the universe of evil. So, if both of these are true, why does God allow evil? If God has the power to prevent evil and desires to prevent evil, why does He still allow evil? Perhaps a practical way to look at this question would be to consider some alternative ways people might have God run the world:

1) God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.

Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. Because of this, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to disobey. They chose to disobey. Because we live in a real world where we can choose our actions but not their consequences, their sin affected those who came after them (us). Similarly, our decisions to sin have an impact on us and those around us and those who will come after us.

2) God could compensate for people’s evil actions through supernatural intervention 100 percent of the time. God would stop a drunk driver from causing an automobile accident. God would stop a lazy construction worker from doing a substandard job on a house that would later cause grief to the homeowners. God would stop a father who is addicted to drugs or alcohol from doing any harm to his wife, children, or extended family. God would stop gunmen from robbing convenience stores. God would stop high school bullies from tormenting the brainy kids. God would stop thieves from shoplifting. And, yes, God would stop terrorists from flying airplanes into buildings.

While this solution sounds attractive, it would lose its attractiveness as soon as God’s intervention infringed on something we wanted to do. We want God to prevent horribly evil actions, but we are willing to let “lesser-evil” actions slide—not realizing that those “lesser-evil” actions are what usually lead to the “greater-evil” actions. Should God only stop actual sexual affairs, or should He also block our access to pornography or end any inappropriate, but not yet sexual, relationships? Should God stop “true” thieves, or should He also stop us from c***ting on our taxes? Should God only stop murder, or should He also stop the “lesser-evil” actions done to people that lead them to commit murder? Should God only stop acts of terrorism, or should He also stop the indoctrination that t***sformed a person into a terrorist?

3) Another choice would be for God to judge and remove those who choose to commit evil acts. The problem with this possibility is that there would be no one left, for God would have to remove us all. We all sin and commit evil acts (Romans 3:23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). While some people are more evil than others, where would God draw the line? Ultimately, all evil causes harm to others.

Instead of these options, God has chosen to create a “real” world in which real choices have real consequences. In this real world of ours, our actions affect others. Because of Adam’s choice to sin, the world now lives under the curse, and we are all born with a sin nature (Romans 5:12). There will one day come a time when God will judge the sin in this world and make all things new, but He is purposely “delaying” in order to allow more time for people to repent so that He will not need to condemn them (2 Peter 3:9). Until then, He IS concerned about evil. When He created the Old Testament laws, the goal was to discourage and punish evil. He judges nations and rulers who disregard justice and pursue evil. Likewise, in the New Testament, God states that it is the government’s responsibility to provide justice in order to protect the innocent from evil (Romans 13). He also promises severe consequences for those who commit evil acts, especially against the "innocent" (Mark 9:36-42).

In summary, we live in a real world where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us. God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, and He does this for those who will turn from evil and call on Him to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17). God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil. Rather than blaming God and questioning God on why He does not prevent all evil, we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences—Jesus Christ!

Reply
Sep 2, 2018 21:07:31   #
rumitoid
 
proud republican wrote:
I was being sarcastic,Runi...You really need help....


So was I.

Reply
 
 
Sep 2, 2018 21:11:42   #
rumitoid
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Rumi,
The Bible describes God as holy (Isaiah 6:3), righteous (Psalm 7:11), just (Deuteronomy 32:4), and sovereign (Daniel 4:17-25). These attributes tell us the following about God: (1) God is capable of preventing evil, and (2) God desires to rid the universe of evil. So, if both of these are true, why does God allow evil? If God has the power to prevent evil and desires to prevent evil, why does He still allow evil? Perhaps a practical way to look at this question would be to consider some alternative ways people might have God run the world:

1) God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.

Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. Because of this, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to disobey. They chose to disobey. Because we live in a real world where we can choose our actions but not their consequences, their sin affected those who came after them (us). Similarly, our decisions to sin have an impact on us and those around us and those who will come after us.

2) God could compensate for people’s evil actions through supernatural intervention 100 percent of the time. God would stop a drunk driver from causing an automobile accident. God would stop a lazy construction worker from doing a substandard job on a house that would later cause grief to the homeowners. God would stop a father who is addicted to drugs or alcohol from doing any harm to his wife, children, or extended family. God would stop gunmen from robbing convenience stores. God would stop high school bullies from tormenting the brainy kids. God would stop thieves from shoplifting. And, yes, God would stop terrorists from flying airplanes into buildings.

While this solution sounds attractive, it would lose its attractiveness as soon as God’s intervention infringed on something we wanted to do. We want God to prevent horribly evil actions, but we are willing to let “lesser-evil” actions slide—not realizing that those “lesser-evil” actions are what usually lead to the “greater-evil” actions. Should God only stop actual sexual affairs, or should He also block our access to pornography or end any inappropriate, but not yet sexual, relationships? Should God stop “true” thieves, or should He also stop us from c***ting on our taxes? Should God only stop murder, or should He also stop the “lesser-evil” actions done to people that lead them to commit murder? Should God only stop acts of terrorism, or should He also stop the indoctrination that t***sformed a person into a terrorist?

3) Another choice would be for God to judge and remove those who choose to commit evil acts. The problem with this possibility is that there would be no one left, for God would have to remove us all. We all sin and commit evil acts (Romans 3:23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). While some people are more evil than others, where would God draw the line? Ultimately, all evil causes harm to others.

Instead of these options, God has chosen to create a “real” world in which real choices have real consequences. In this real world of ours, our actions affect others. Because of Adam’s choice to sin, the world now lives under the curse, and we are all born with a sin nature (Romans 5:12). There will one day come a time when God will judge the sin in this world and make all things new, but He is purposely “delaying” in order to allow more time for people to repent so that He will not need to condemn them (2 Peter 3:9). Until then, He IS concerned about evil. When He created the Old Testament laws, the goal was to discourage and punish evil. He judges nations and rulers who disregard justice and pursue evil. Likewise, in the New Testament, God states that it is the government’s responsibility to provide justice in order to protect the innocent from evil (Romans 13). He also promises severe consequences for those who commit evil acts, especially against the "innocent" (Mark 9:36-42).

In summary, we live in a real world where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us. God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, and He does this for those who will turn from evil and call on Him to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17). God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil. Rather than blaming God and questioning God on why He does not prevent all evil, we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences—Jesus Christ!
Rumi, br The Bible describes God as holy (Isaiah... (show quote)


That is totally Ridiculous. An entirely absurd explanation.

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