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10 Unavoidable Arguments Against Patriotism
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Apr 12, 2014 01:05:44   #
rumitoid
 
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism May Make War More Likely; 9) It May Discourage Useful Political Involvement; 8) It Encourages Unjustified Hatred Or Distrust; 7) Patriotism Makes Rights Violations Acceptable; 6) It Makes Censorship Acceptable; 5) Patriotism Leads To Denigration Of Others; 4) Patriotic Feelings Encourage Atrocities; 3) It Is Expensive; 2) Patriotic Thought Replaces Critical Thought; 1) It Just Isn’t Necessary. Read the arguments here: http://listverse.com/2014/03/27/10-unavoidable-arguments-against-patriotism/

A few comments. I am a vet and believe that our form of government is the best thus far offered for the greatest good of humankind. Yet this "greatest good" often ends up taking second, third, or out of the running place for the imperatives of Patriotism: "love of country and zeal for its interests." This is clearly and abundantly manifest in our history (and the history of every country). The ideals and principles, and sometimes laws and common sense, of ours or any country get covered or obscured by the f**g. Such as The Patriot Act, ironically enough, as we all see very plainly now.
I am not making my stand on religious grounds (more on the basis of critical thinking) but a few verses from the Bible often cited by Christians as an argument to fight for one's country is Romans13:1-4. This could involve a huge explanation but I will cut to the chase: A Christian is "to submit to the governing authorities" not for their sake or the country's but, as the other verses that follow in context plainly disclose, out of love of neighbor. For the Christian is a "citizen of heaven," "a stranger in a strange land," a "foreigner" and "alien" wherever he or she may reside, having been "set aside" (made holy) as an "ambassador for the kingdom of God." He or she is not to get "entangled in worldly affairs."
A curiosity. There is a street in a city in Norther Ireland where the only difference in loyalty and belief is the happenstance of being born with an even or odd address number. Think about that.
Lastly, Patriotism has no other values ascribed to it than "love of country," which is why every country can have patriots no matter their politics or beliefs: Patriotism is a one size fits all defect.

Here is the author's Number One Argument against Patriotism verbatim:

"Some readers may reject these arguments, but many others will simply ascribe all the worst effects cited here as a result of “extreme patriotism” or misinterpretations of what it means to be patriotic. But if the risks are there, and milder forms might lead to more virulent ones, we have to ask if patriotism is necessary at all.

"Do we derive some special benefits from it in terms of prosperity or liberty? There isn’t much evidence for that hypothesis. The United States is, statistically, more patriotic than many other countries. Yet it has a lower median household income than several less patriotic counterparts. It ranks lower on liberty than several other countries, according to measures like the World Press Freedom Index.

"We don’t need to be patriotic to defend common values or the spaces we share. People will defend themselves, their families, and their homes with or without patriotic feelings. So what evidence is there for enough good effects of patriotism to balance the harm done by it?"

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 02:01:28   #
rumitoid
 
rumitoid wrote:
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism May Make War More Likely; 9) It May Discourage Useful Political Involvement; 8) It Encourages Unjustified Hatred Or Distrust; 7) Patriotism Makes Rights Violations Acceptable; 6) It Makes Censorship Acceptable; 5) Patriotism Leads To Denigration Of Others; 4) Patriotic Feelings Encourage Atrocities; 3) It Is Expensive; 2) Patriotic Thought Replaces Critical Thought; 1) It Just Isn’t Necessary. Read the arguments here: http://listverse.com/2014/03/27/10-unavoidable-arguments-against-patriotism/

A few comments. I am a vet and believe that our form of government is the best thus far offered for the greatest good of humankind. Yet this "greatest good" often ends up taking second, third, or out of the running place for the imperatives of Patriotism: "love of country and zeal for its interests." This is clearly and abundantly manifest in our history (and the history of every country). The ideals and principles, and sometimes laws and common sense, of ours or any country get covered or obscured by the f**g. Such as The Patriot Act, ironically enough, as we all see very plainly now.
I am not making my stand on religious grounds (more on the basis of critical thinking) but a few verses from the Bible often cited by Christians as an argument to fight for one's country is Romans13:1-4. This could involve a huge explanation but I will cut to the chase: A Christian is "to submit to the governing authorities" not for their sake or the country's but, as the other verses that follow in context plainly disclose, out of love of neighbor. For the Christian is a "citizen of heaven," "a stranger in a strange land," a "foreigner" and "alien" wherever he or she may reside, having been "set aside" (made holy) as an "ambassador for the kingdom of God." He or she is not to get "entangled in worldly affairs."
A curiosity. There is a street in a city in Norther Ireland where the only difference in loyalty and belief is the happenstance of being born with an even or odd address number. Think about that.
Lastly, Patriotism has no other values ascribed to it than "love of country," which is why every country can have patriots no matter their politics or beliefs: Patriotism is a one size fits all defect.

Here is the author's Number One Argument against Patriotism verbatim:

"Some readers may reject these arguments, but many others will simply ascribe all the worst effects cited here as a result of “extreme patriotism” or misinterpretations of what it means to be patriotic. But if the risks are there, and milder forms might lead to more virulent ones, we have to ask if patriotism is necessary at all.

"Do we derive some special benefits from it in terms of prosperity or liberty? There isn’t much evidence for that hypothesis. The United States is, statistically, more patriotic than many other countries. Yet it has a lower median household income than several less patriotic counterparts. It ranks lower on liberty than several other countries, according to measures like the World Press Freedom Index.

"We don’t need to be patriotic to defend common values or the spaces we share. People will defend themselves, their families, and their homes with or without patriotic feelings. So what evidence is there for enough good effects of patriotism to balance the harm done by it?"
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism... (show quote)


Then there is always this from "arguably the most distinguished man of letters in English history," Samuel Johnson: "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 03:33:01   #
rumitoid
 
I was prompted to write this dangerous piece because of the imminent danger presented predominantly by the Right that they are the true and only patriots, their opposition thus being un-American at the least and anti-American at the most, the First Amendment effectively trashed by the Right for others to hold a differing opinion as to policies. Disagree with the Right and, like in Russia, you are an enemy of the State.
We have a bicameral system in order to get the fullest possible picture of a need or problem to find a solution, through debate and eventual compromise, that is in the best interest of the common good and in keeping with our basic principles. The Right now claims it is the only voice allowed to speak and all others should be silenced, for those voices are un-American or anti-American. (Read the history of any tyranny and you will see the stark similarities.)
But there is a quandary in the true American, patriot, family values, got all the right answers crowd: who is the True (capital "T") Conservative? (In another land, at another time, the question might have been who has the brownest shirt.)

Reply
 
 
Apr 12, 2014 04:31:06   #
lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas
 
rumitoid wrote:
I was prompted to write this dangerous piece because of the imminent danger presented predominantly by the Right that they are the true and only patriots, their opposition thus being un-American at the least and anti-American at the most, the First Amendment effectively trashed by the Right for others to hold a differing opinion as to policies. Disagree with the Right and, like in Russia, you are an enemy of the State.
We have a bicameral system in order to get the fullest possible picture of a need or problem to find a solution, through debate and eventual compromise, that is in the best interest of the common good and in keeping with our basic principles. The Right now claims it is the only voice allowed to speak and all others should be silenced, for those voices are un-American or anti-American. (Read the history of any tyranny and you will see the stark similarities.)
But there is a quandary in the true American, patriot, family values, got all the right answers crowd: who is the True (capital "T") Conservative? (In another land, at another time, the question might have been who has the brownest shirt.)
I was prompted to write this dangerous piece becau... (show quote)


Being unpatriotic can be equated to high treason in the middle ages, where it was death to speak out against the nobility. Patriotism can also equate to heresy, which caused untold thousands of deaths, during the inquisition. Perhaps we'll become like 1940's Germany, where neighbors and one's own children reported unpatriotic speech to the gestapo.

Should the repubs get the house, senate and white house, be prepared to show your papers on request and keep your discontent to yourself.

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 04:55:23   #
cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob
 
lpnmajor wrote:
Being unpatriotic can be equated to high treason in the middle ages, where it was death to speak out against the nobility. Patriotism can also equate to heresy, which caused untold thousands of deaths, during the inquisition. Perhaps we'll become like 1940's Germany, where neighbors and one's own children reported unpatriotic speech to the gestapo.

Should the repubs get the house, senate and white house, be prepared to show your papers on request and keep your discontent to yourself.

I would be happy with just the senate and house if the POTUS would act accordingly
:idea:

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 06:04:40   #
Coupdecu
 
rumitoid wrote:
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism May Make War More Likely; 9) It May Discourage Useful Political Involvement; 8) It Encourages Unjustified Hatred Or Distrust; 7) Patriotism Makes Rights Violations Acceptable; 6) It Makes Censorship Acceptable; 5) Patriotism Leads To Denigration Of Others; 4) Patriotic Feelings Encourage Atrocities; 3) It Is Expensive; 2) Patriotic Thought Replaces Critical Thought; 1) It Just Isn’t Necessary. Read the arguments here: http://listverse.com/2014/03/27/10-unavoidable-arguments-against-patriotism/
Ge I wonder if that would have helped the jews in Hitlers time , after he took their gun from them then had them gassed !!!!!!!!!!! Wake up !!!!!!!!!!!!!
A few comments. I am a vet and believe that our form of government is the best thus far offered for the greatest good of humankind. Yet this "greatest good" often ends up taking second, third, or out of the running place for the imperatives of Patriotism: "love of country and zeal for its interests." This is clearly and abundantly manifest in our history (and the history of every country). The ideals and principles, and sometimes laws and common sense, of ours or any country get covered or obscured by the f**g. Such as The Patriot Act, ironically enough, as we all see very plainly now.
I am not making my stand on religious grounds (more on the basis of critical thinking) but a few verses from the Bible often cited by Christians as an argument to fight for one's country is Romans13:1-4. This could involve a huge explanation but I will cut to the chase: A Christian is "to submit to the governing authorities" not for their sake or the country's but, as the other verses that follow in context plainly disclose, out of love of neighbor. For the Christian is a "citizen of heaven," "a stranger in a strange land," a "foreigner" and "alien" wherever he or she may reside, having been "set aside" (made holy) as an "ambassador for the kingdom of God." He or she is not to get "entangled in worldly affairs."
A curiosity. There is a street in a city in Norther Ireland where the only difference in loyalty and belief is the happenstance of being born with an even or odd address number. Think about that.
Lastly, Patriotism has no other values ascribed to it than "love of country," which is why every country can have patriots no matter their politics or beliefs: Patriotism is a one size fits all defect.

Here is the author's Number One Argument against Patriotism verbatim:

"Some readers may reject these arguments, but many others will simply ascribe all the worst effects cited here as a result of “extreme patriotism” or misinterpretations of what it means to be patriotic. But if the risks are there, and milder forms might lead to more virulent ones, we have to ask if patriotism is necessary at all.

"Do we derive some special benefits from it in terms of prosperity or liberty? There isn’t much evidence for that hypothesis. The United States is, statistically, more patriotic than many other countries. Yet it has a lower median household income than several less patriotic counterparts. It ranks lower on liberty than several other countries, according to measures like the World Press Freedom Index.

"We don’t need to be patriotic to defend common values or the spaces we share. People will defend themselves, their families, and their homes with or without patriotic feelings. So what evidence is there for enough good effects of patriotism to balance the harm done by it?"
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism... (show quote)

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 06:10:30   #
Coupdecu
 
rumitoid wrote:
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism May Make War More Likely; 9) It May Discourage Useful Political Involvement; 8) It Encourages Unjustified Hatred Or Distrust; 7) Patriotism Makes Rights Violations Acceptable; 6) It Makes Censorship Acceptable; 5) Patriotism Leads To Denigration Of Others; 4) Patriotic Feelings Encourage Atrocities; 3) It Is Expensive; 2) Patriotic Thought Replaces Critical Thought; 1) It Just Isn’t Necessary. Read the arguments here: http://listverse.com/2014/03/27/10-unavoidable-arguments-against-patriotism/

A few comments. I am a vet and believe that our form of government is the best thus far offered for the greatest good of humankind. Yet this "greatest good" often ends up taking second, third, or out of the running place for the imperatives of Patriotism: "love of country and zeal for its interests." This is clearly and abundantly manifest in our history (and the history of every country). The ideals and principles, and sometimes laws and common sense, of ours or any country get covered or obscured by the f**g. Such as The Patriot Act, ironically enough, as we all see very plainly now.
I am not making my stand on religious grounds (more on the basis of critical thinking) but a few verses from the Bible often cited by Christians as an argument to fight for one's country is Romans13:1-4. This could involve a huge explanation but I will cut to the chase: A Christian is "to submit to the governing authorities" not for their sake or the country's but, as the other verses that follow in context plainly disclose, out of love of neighbor. For the Christian is a "citizen of heaven," "a stranger in a strange land," a "foreigner" and "alien" wherever he or she may reside, having been "set aside" (made holy) as an "ambassador for the kingdom of God." He or she is not to get "entangled in worldly affairs."
A curiosity. There is a street in a city in Norther Ireland where the only difference in loyalty and belief is the happenstance of being born with an even or odd address number. Think about that.
Lastly, Patriotism has no other values ascribed to it than "love of country," which is why every country can have patriots no matter their politics or beliefs: Patriotism is a one size fits all defect.

Here is the author's Number One Argument against Patriotism verbatim:

"Some readers may reject these arguments, but many others will simply ascribe all the worst effects cited here as a result of “extreme patriotism” or misinterpretations of what it means to be patriotic. But if the risks are there, and milder forms might lead to more virulent ones, we have to ask if patriotism is necessary at all.

"Do we derive some special benefits from it in terms of prosperity or liberty? There isn’t much evidence for that hypothesis. The United States is, statistically, more patriotic than many other countries. Yet it has a lower median household income than several less patriotic counterparts. It ranks lower on liberty than several other countries, according to measures like the World Press Freedom Index.

"We don’t need to be patriotic to defend common values or the spaces we share. People will defend themselves, their families, and their homes with or without patriotic feelings. So what evidence is there for enough good effects of patriotism to balance the harm done by it?"
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism... (show quote)


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Apr 12, 2014 06:14:13   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
Patriotism to me is loving your country and being willing to follow your countries laws. I believe in pledging allegience to the f**g also with respect I refer to my President. There is always room for improvement but that is why we v**e and what we have elected officials for.Liberty and justice for all. To me patriotism means defending that position and living accordingly.

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 07:26:21   #
Iggy Rat Loc: Lost in America
 
fom wrote:
Patriotism to me is loving your country and being willing to follow your countries laws. I believe in pledging allegience to the f**g also with respect I refer to my President. There is always room for improvement but that is why we v**e and what we have elected officials for.Liberty and justice for all. To me patriotism means defending that position and living accordingly.


Thank you!! Wonderful piece. Concise and insightful. History is clearly full of cautionary tales warning of the dangers of patriotism, but I remain unconvinced. It truly seems that, regardless of the interests of the left or right, our founding fathers regarded freedom and individual liberty to be the primary goals of our government. Not safety. Not patriotism, No universal utopia, just the opportunity for each American to seek their own happiness, unobstructed by society, as long as that quest does not infringe on the rights of another. Am I mistaken?

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 07:38:38   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
fom wrote:
Patriotism to me is loving your country and being willing to follow your countries laws. I believe in pledging allegience to the f**g also with respect I refer to my President. There is always room for improvement but that is why we v**e and what we have elected officials for.Liberty and justice for all. To me patriotism means defending that position and living accordingly.


:thumbup: Agreed!

Patriotism: 'Devotion to one's country.'

Nationalism: 'Chauvinistic devotion to one's own nation.'

Chauvinism: 'Militant and vain-glorious patriotism.'

Nationalism does not equate to patriotism. The key is knowing where to draw the line in serving your country, or group/self interests. It is not always easy.

Great topic, Rumitoid! :thumbup:

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 07:58:43   #
NanaSue57 Loc: Georgia
 
rumitoid wrote:
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism May Make War More Likely; 9) It May Discourage Useful Political Involvement; 8) It Encourages Unjustified Hatred Or Distrust; 7) Patriotism Makes Rights Violations Acceptable; 6) It Makes Censorship Acceptable; 5) Patriotism Leads To Denigration Of Others; 4) Patriotic Feelings Encourage Atrocities; 3) It Is Expensive; 2) Patriotic Thought Replaces Critical Thought; 1) It Just Isn’t Necessary. Read the arguments here: http://listverse.com/2014/03/27/10-unavoidable-arguments-against-patriotism/

A few comments. I am a vet and believe that our form of government is the best thus far offered for the greatest good of humankind. Yet this "greatest good" often ends up taking second, third, or out of the running place for the imperatives of Patriotism: "love of country and zeal for its interests." This is clearly and abundantly manifest in our history (and the history of every country). The ideals and principles, and sometimes laws and common sense, of ours or any country get covered or obscured by the f**g. Such as The Patriot Act, ironically enough, as we all see very plainly now.
I am not making my stand on religious grounds (more on the basis of critical thinking) but a few verses from the Bible often cited by Christians as an argument to fight for one's country is Romans13:1-4. This could involve a huge explanation but I will cut to the chase: A Christian is "to submit to the governing authorities" not for their sake or the country's but, as the other verses that follow in context plainly disclose, out of love of neighbor. For the Christian is a "citizen of heaven," "a stranger in a strange land," a "foreigner" and "alien" wherever he or she may reside, having been "set aside" (made holy) as an "ambassador for the kingdom of God." He or she is not to get "entangled in worldly affairs."
A curiosity. There is a street in a city in Norther Ireland where the only difference in loyalty and belief is the happenstance of being born with an even or odd address number. Think about that.
Lastly, Patriotism has no other values ascribed to it than "love of country," which is why every country can have patriots no matter their politics or beliefs: Patriotism is a one size fits all defect.

Here is the author's Number One Argument against Patriotism verbatim:

"Some readers may reject these arguments, but many others will simply ascribe all the worst effects cited here as a result of “extreme patriotism” or misinterpretations of what it means to be patriotic. But if the risks are there, and milder forms might lead to more virulent ones, we have to ask if patriotism is necessary at all.

"Do we derive some special benefits from it in terms of prosperity or liberty? There isn’t much evidence for that hypothesis. The United States is, statistically, more patriotic than many other countries. Yet it has a lower median household income than several less patriotic counterparts. It ranks lower on liberty than several other countries, according to measures like the World Press Freedom Index.

"We don’t need to be patriotic to defend common values or the spaces we share. People will defend themselves, their families, and their homes with or without patriotic feelings. So what evidence is there for enough good effects of patriotism to balance the harm done by it?"
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism... (show quote)



I looked up the definition of patriotism in the dictionary, several, various dictionaries. This was the basic definition of Patriotism: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

Just let us love our country. We would not even HAVE this country without patriots. And our median household incomes would be much higher if our president was a patriot (he didn't even grow up in America), and wasn't trying to bring America down to blend it into a New World Order. Now research THIS and see what you find.

Sheesh! A whole article, lengthy at that, about the evils of patriotism. Love for our country. "Shame on us." Unbelievable. All those young men and women who fought and died for our country would be rolling in their graves if they could read this article. :roll:

:thumbdown:

Reply
 
 
Apr 12, 2014 08:50:40   #
MarvinSussman
 
rumitoid wrote:
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism May Make War More Likely; 9) It May Discourage Useful Political Involvement; 8) It Encourages Unjustified Hatred Or Distrust; 7) Patriotism Makes Rights Violations Acceptable; 6) It Makes Censorship Acceptable; 5) Patriotism Leads To Denigration Of Others; 4) Patriotic Feelings Encourage Atrocities; 3) It Is Expensive; 2) Patriotic Thought Replaces Critical Thought; 1) It Just Isn’t Necessary. Read the arguments here: http://listverse.com/2014/03/27/10-unavoidable-arguments-against-patriotism/

A few comments. I am a vet and believe that our form of government is the best thus far offered for the greatest good of humankind. Yet this "greatest good" often ends up taking second, third, or out of the running place for the imperatives of Patriotism: "love of country and zeal for its interests." This is clearly and abundantly manifest in our history (and the history of every country). The ideals and principles, and sometimes laws and common sense, of ours or any country get covered or obscured by the f**g. Such as The Patriot Act, ironically enough, as we all see very plainly now.
I am not making my stand on religious grounds (more on the basis of critical thinking) but a few verses from the Bible often cited by Christians as an argument to fight for one's country is Romans13:1-4. This could involve a huge explanation but I will cut to the chase: A Christian is "to submit to the governing authorities" not for their sake or the country's but, as the other verses that follow in context plainly disclose, out of love of neighbor. For the Christian is a "citizen of heaven," "a stranger in a strange land," a "foreigner" and "alien" wherever he or she may reside, having been "set aside" (made holy) as an "ambassador for the kingdom of God." He or she is not to get "entangled in worldly affairs."
A curiosity. There is a street in a city in Norther Ireland where the only difference in loyalty and belief is the happenstance of being born with an even or odd address number. Think about that.
Lastly, Patriotism has no other values ascribed to it than "love of country," which is why every country can have patriots no matter their politics or beliefs: Patriotism is a one size fits all defect.

Here is the author's Number One Argument against Patriotism verbatim:

"Some readers may reject these arguments, but many others will simply ascribe all the worst effects cited here as a result of “extreme patriotism” or misinterpretations of what it means to be patriotic. But if the risks are there, and milder forms might lead to more virulent ones, we have to ask if patriotism is necessary at all.

"Do we derive some special benefits from it in terms of prosperity or liberty? There isn’t much evidence for that hypothesis. The United States is, statistically, more patriotic than many other countries. Yet it has a lower median household income than several less patriotic counterparts. It ranks lower on liberty than several other countries, according to measures like the World Press Freedom Index.

"We don’t need to be patriotic to defend common values or the spaces we share. People will defend themselves, their families, and their homes with or without patriotic feelings. So what evidence is there for enough good effects of patriotism to balance the harm done by it?"
Here are the ten argument headings: 10) Patriotism... (show quote)


True patriotism is not words. It's deeds.

I would like to see an end to the "Pledge of Allegiance" that some school children recite every school day. Does allegiance have a 24-hour expiration period? Can't we trust our children to mean what they say the first time they say it? This smells of brain-washing.

This excessive f**g-waving can lead ultimately to boredom, cynicism, and disdain.

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 10:20:55   #
jetson
 
NanaSue57 wrote:
I looked up the definition of patriotism in the dictionary, several, various dictionaries. This was the basic definition of Patriotism: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

Just let us love our country. We would not even HAVE this country without patriots. And our median household incomes would be much higher if our president was a patriot (he didn't even grow up in America), and wasn't trying to bring America down to blend it into a New World Order. Now research THIS and see what you find.

Sheesh! A whole article, lengthy at that, about the evils of patriotism. Love for our country. "Shame on us." Unbelievable. All those young men and women who fought and died for our country would be rolling in their graves if they could read this article. :roll:

:thumbdown:
I looked up the definition of patriotism in the di... (show quote)

No one of us can be a true patriot. It sometimes will go against our grain. We can't support those crooks in Washington, when they past laws that k**led babies and laws that are totally against Gods law. We can't support laws that are taking away our rights day by day. Everyone of us want to be patriotic. But first we must have a patriotic government. Where is our patriotic leaders. We have thieves in our government and business that are greedy and get worse day by day. Obama states he has a phone and a pen. I say the public has a phone and a pen also, as the v****g is coming up soon. We have big shot politicians on both sides, that need to go. They have been their to long and have to much power. A few are: Rep., Glenn, Linsay and McCoullen. Dem., Polosi, Reed, Feinstein and many others on both sides need to get out of town.

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 10:47:08   #
LAPhil Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
lpnmajor wrote:
Should the repubs get the house, senate and white house, be prepared to show your papers on request and keep your discontent to yourself.

OH, GIVE ME A BREAK!

Reply
Apr 12, 2014 10:50:23   #
LAPhil Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
MarvinSussman wrote:
True patriotism is not words. It's deeds.

I would like to see an end to the "Pledge of Allegiance" that some school children recite every school day. Does allegiance have a 24-hour expiration period? Can't we trust our children to mean what they say the first time they say it? This smells of brain-washing.

This excessive f**g-waving can lead ultimately to boredom, cynicism, and disdain.

Marvin, this is probably the only time I'll ever agree with you. I always doubted the necessity for having school children say the pledge of allegiance every day, because how does that instill any sense of patriotism? Like you said, patriotism is in one's deeds, not one's words. When I was in school we didn't say the pledge of allegiance after the 6th grade, so why the difference in the policy based on the grade level?

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