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15 months later......
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May 9, 2018 18:13:19   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
JoyV wrote:
1) Trump repeatedly (25 times) took credit for projects involving Ford, GM, Fiat Chrysler and other companies that were announced or planned long before he took office.
Actually the plans of most if not all were increased, sped up, improved, or went from a nebulous possibility to a fact which most of these companies attributed to Trump's intended policies. So they are only partially correct that there were plans, but incorrect that Trump lied about influencing these companies to implement them in the way they were.

2) Trump also misleadingly claimed 15 times that he lowered the cost of F-35 airplanes by $700 million...
Lockheed Martin agreed after weeks of pressure by Pres. Trump to lower their price. The price of the Air Force version of the plane, for instance, will drop 7.3 percent to $94.6 million from $102 million in the previous batch that the government ordered before the November e******n. That is for a single jet. For the entire order The F-35 is by far the Pentagon’s largest program; it has plans to eventually build more than 2,400 of them for the Air Force, Navy and Marines, and hundreds more for allies. So they are correct. The cost was NOT lowered by $700 million. It was lowered by far far more!

3)...and repeated the debunked claim that Obamacare is failing or imploding 17 times.
Debunked by who? It WAS failing.

4)“The change began with the termination of the T***s-Pacific Partnership — a 12-nation pact that would have shipped millions more jobs to other countries.”
Their claim of lie is that they don't believe the number in his prediction would have come about. I think the number exaggerated too. But it is a prediction of what would have happened IF the TPP continued. Since it isn't, we can't know what the number would have been. So you can't claim it is a lie. You can say you think his prediction would have failed.

5)“After years of federal contracts going to foreign bidders, we are ensuring that government agencies enforce “Buy American” rules and give preference to American companies — and that American companies hire American workers.”
They answer that Trump companies in the past have outsourced and that makes this a lie. But even if Trump companies were continuing to outsource and do so exclusively (which they aren't), it has nothing to do with ensuring GOVT AGENCIES comply with the Buy American rules.

6)“We are going to pursue a complete renegotiation of the North American Free Trade Agreement: We’ve lost nearly a third of our manufacturing jobs in the 23 years since that terrible deal was approved.”
Knowing the owners of more than one business which went under due to NAFTA, while I don't know if his figures were accurate; I do know that he was RIGHT!!!!

7)“Finally, NATO countries are starting to pay billions of dollars more since I have made clear that the United States expects all of its allies to pay their fair share.”
WaPo says, "Long before Trump started complaining about NATO, members had committed to having defense spending account for two percent of each nation's gross domestic product by 2024." Are they for real??? That is the whole point. They weren't living up to their commitment!!!! Or do you really think that from the time NATO was started they would not pay anything until 2025 and then pay it all? Yet in the mean time NATO must be funded so we must take the brunt? AND we also provide the brunt of the troops, equipment, and supplies?

8)“Thousands of new jobs are being re-shored back to America — including jobs at Ford, General Motors, Fiat Chrysler, Sprint, Intel and so many more.”
They want to credit Obama with the reshoring. Although a small portion of the plans were already in effect, the expansion of American manufacturing and the discarding of outsourcing plans (such as Ford's Mexico plant), only happened AFTER Trump's policy announcements.

9)“After decades of unending i*****l i*********n and mass uncontrolled entry, we’ve turned the tide as never before — illegal border-crossings are down 73 percent.” They claim i*****l i*********n had been declining for years. Talk to Border Patrol agents on the border or ranchers and others, like myself, who live on the border. For the last several years the illegal crossings had been increasing. AND there was far more violent i******s crossing. Smuggling of guns, drugs, and human trafficking was increasing. On the property I live on, I saw and increase of about 600% during Obama's second term. While a big decrease in families, there were almost all drug or human traffickers. I know because I saw with my own eyes. And Border Patrol would stop by to tell be to stay out of sight for hours to days at a time because they were following a known dangerous illegal. When I ask why they don't pick him up, I was told they had orders to not detain without evidence of a crime since he came over the border this time. There was a shootout at my mailbox in Oct, 2016. I know of half a dozen ranchers who were murdered by i******s. Since Trump has been in office my property alone went from about 200 i******s passing through to ZERO!

10)“We really maxed out. We broke the all-time record for this arena.” They say: There were empty seats in the stands when Trump spoke at his 100th day rally in Harrisburg, Pa.
No. There were empty seat BEFORE the rally started. Before everyone in line had finished entering, or at least everyone there was room for. There were still people outside waiting to enter. If you watched the rally from other than the anti-Trump media; and saw the pan around the entire room; you would see it was jam packed!

11)The "failing" New York Times “had to apologize because they covered us so badly” They say this didn't happen. Yet I certainly remember it happening on at least 2 occasions. Maybe those who keep track of the NYT retractions can give a more accurate count. But for his statement to be true it only had to happen once.

12)“We are keeping one promise after another.” That is true!

13)“Compliance with the [Paris] agreement could shrink US GDP by $2.5 trillion over ten-year period.
Whether that estimate is considered high or low depends on who is doing the estimate. By withdrawing it is speculation on what the impact on the GDP would be. So this is neither a lie or a t***h. It is an estimate.

14)“I have been talking about currency manipulation [by China] for a long time but I have to tell you, during the e******n they stopped.” WaPo claims China stopped devaluing their money long before the e******n. But though China claims they have, they also claim that what appears to be devaluing is really China managing its currency to ensure domestic stability, not to c***t trading partners, and there’s no venue in which anyone can effectively challenge that claim. So the devaluing was continuing although they claim it was for domestic stability so not the same thing.

15)“In just a few months we have created 99,000 new construction jobs, 49,000 new manufacturing jobs, 27,000 new mining jobs….We have over 600,000 new jobs.” Don't know if the numbers are accurate to exact figure, but essentially true.

16)“We have already achieved an unprecedented 73% reduction in illegal crossings on our southern border.” In my area far higher than 73%.

17)“We have cleared the way for the construction of the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipelines. 48,000 new jobs.” It all depends on how you count on how accurate. For example if the pipeline construction had been terminated, as the left wanted; there would have been a lot of job losses. Should those count toward the total of jobs due to clearing the way for construction? And there are other ways you can count the figures due to the complexities of multiple companies involved. And how about all the jobs which come through support of the pipeline or pipeline employees. Do these people need to eat for instance?

18)“I have already saved $725 million on a simple order of F-35 airplanes.” Already covered. That figure will ultimately go much higher but he said, "already". But WaPo said, "the Pentagon had announced cost reductions of roughly $600 million on the F-35 before Trump began meeting with Lockheed Martin’s chief executive." That savings would only be by reducing the number of F35s to be built. Not a reduction in price but a reduction in the order.

19) “The great state of Tennessee where half the state already has no insurance carrier” I don't know about TN but it was true of my state of AZ.

Much of what I scrolled through were repeats. But you should get the picture. Some of the supposed lies were prediction of what might have happened if he hadn't changed them. Whether the prediction WOULD HAVE BEEN accurate or not we can never know. So not a lie. Some are a matter of interpreting what should be included in the claim. So if he included peripheral jobs and WaPo didn't, who is lying or is anyone? Others are outright lies by WaPo but t***h by Trump. And many may have figures which are approximations instead of to the digit. If you were to say 20 million when the count was really 21, 235, 118; is that a lie?
1) Trump repeatedly (25 times) took credit for pro... (show quote)


Joy, the reason why I'm not going to dispute any of these claims you make is because a) there are too many of them and I don't have all day and b) you haven't provided any evidence or sources for any of them. All you offer is personal opinion and conjecture. I could do the same damned thing by just responding with my opinion that your opinions are bulls**t, such a response would be no more and no less qualified.

This is why I asked you what you're going to do with 50 lies. So, instead of filling up the page with half-thoughts and bulls**t, why don't we focus more constructively on just one specific lie at a time? Go ahead and pick one from your list and I'll respond. Or, we can just start with this one...

A few weeks ago, Trump was asked whether he knew anything about the $130,000 that Cohen paid to Stormy Daniels and he said (VERY clearly), "no".

This is a simple situation. There's no what-if's, or dicey predictions to give his supporters wiggle room for excuses. It was a simple yes or no question about something that actually happened and he either knew about or he didn't. I saw him on camera insisting that he knew nothing about it. A few days later his half-witted lawyer Rudy Giulliani said that Trump had reimbursed Cohen for the payment. So *someone* is lying.

THEN Trump starts to back-pedal, issuing tweets that say the $130,000 didn't come from e******n money that it was something else... Oh, so all of a sudden Trump knows all about the $130,000 payment.

So please, in your very best posturing, explain to me how Trump's initial answer was NOT a lie.

Reply
May 10, 2018 02:37:09   #
Steve700
 
straightUp wrote:
Joy, the reason why I'm not going to dispute any of these claims you make is because a) there are too many of them and I don't have all day and b) you haven't provided any evidence or sources for any of them. All you offer is personal opinion and conjecture. I could do the same damned thing by just responding with my opinion that your opinions are bulls**t, such a response would be no more and no less qualified.

This is why I asked you what you're going to do with 50 lies. So, instead of filling up the page with half-thoughts and bulls**t, why don't we focus more constructively on just one specific lie at a time? Go ahead and pick one from your list and I'll respond. Or, we can just start with this one...

A few weeks ago, Trump was asked whether he knew anything about the $130,000 that Cohen paid to Stormy Daniels and he said (VERY clearly), "no".

This is a simple situation. There's no what-if's, or dicey predictions to give his supporters wiggle room for excuses. It was a simple yes or no question about something that actually happened and he either knew about or he didn't. I saw him on camera insisting that he knew nothing about it. A few days later his half-witted lawyer Rudy Giulliani said that Trump had reimbursed Cohen for the payment. So *someone* is lying.

THEN Trump starts to back-pedal, issuing tweets that say the $130,000 didn't come from e******n money that it was something else... Oh, so all of a sudden Trump knows all about the $130,000 payment.

So please, in your very best posturing, explain to me how Trump's initial answer was NOT a lie.
Joy, the reason why I'm not going to dispute any o... (show quote)

Remember what the left said in trying to make excuses for Clinton's indiscretions "Everyone lies about sex",. But that's not even the point. Trump was not elected to be our preacher. He was elected to deal with this entrenched g*******t corruption, mostly of the left. We don't give a s**t about such "beside the point matters". They are only bringing this crap up now because the Deliberately & Knowingly FRAUDULENT waste of taxpayer money on that bull s**t Russian collusion delusion has run its course and they need something else to keep up the on going negativity about Trump. This whole bull s**t s**m of the deep state to distract and thwart the will of the American people, impede trumps in fulfilling his p**********l promises, duties, and dealing with our establishment corruption, and to avoid talking about the t*****rous activities of Hillary (in fact, the Clintons and their foundation), Obama himself, also Mueller himself, Eric Holder, Loretta Lynch, Jarrett, Clapper and the rest of those t*****rous scumbags of the left is an outrage and absolutely t*****rous.

All those subversive and t*****rous things those ass holes have done against America and the g*******t/l*****t news organizations are molding your mind and manipulating your opinions over meaningless nonsense, and your stupid ass is falling for it.

Reply
May 10, 2018 02:44:43   #
JoyV
 
straightUp wrote:
Joy, the reason why I'm not going to dispute any of these claims you make is because a) there are too many of them and I don't have all day and b) you haven't provided any evidence or sources for any of them. All you offer is personal opinion and conjecture. I could do the same damned thing by just responding with my opinion that your opinions are bulls**t, such a response would be no more and no less qualified.

This is why I asked you what you're going to do with 50 lies. So, instead of filling up the page with half-thoughts and bulls**t, why don't we focus more constructively on just one specific lie at a time? Go ahead and pick one from your list and I'll respond. Or, we can just start with this one...

A few weeks ago, Trump was asked whether he knew anything about the $130,000 that Cohen paid to Stormy Daniels and he said (VERY clearly), "no".

This is a simple situation. There's no what-if's, or dicey predictions to give his supporters wiggle room for excuses. It was a simple yes or no question about something that actually happened and he either knew about or he didn't. I saw him on camera insisting that he knew nothing about it. A few days later his half-witted lawyer Rudy Giulliani said that Trump had reimbursed Cohen for the payment. So *someone* is lying.

THEN Trump starts to back-pedal, issuing tweets that say the $130,000 didn't come from e******n money that it was something else... Oh, so all of a sudden Trump knows all about the $130,000 payment.

So please, in your very best posturing, explain to me how Trump's initial answer was NOT a lie.
Joy, the reason why I'm not going to dispute any o... (show quote)


So when you continually post that Trump told thousands of lies without any explanation let alone documentation; that was what you consider providing evidence? It is the accuser who is expected to provide evidence of wrongdoing. Evidence to prove innocence is not required or expected. So where's the evidence of guilt?

Then you didn't listen to the entire conversation with Guilliani, who is not his lawyer by the way. Trump paid Cohen for his expenses and fees on a routine and regular basis. Included in those payments were the $130,000. Trump never paid that exact figure, but far more as he paid the bill the lawyer presented him. So it is very likely he did not know every expense breakdown or that particular payment. I do not know whether he did or did not. But unless it is known, no one can say whether he lied or not. As for e******n money, there has been zero evidence that any e******n money was used. Trump paid his lawyer faithfully both before, during, and after the campaign. Why would this be any different during the campaign? Unless you have some evidence you wish to share?

Reply
 
 
May 10, 2018 11:34:03   #
JimMe
 
JoyV wrote:
So when you continually post that Trump told thousands of lies without any explanation let alone documentation; that was what you consider providing evidence? It is the accuser who is expected to provide evidence of wrongdoing. Evidence to prove innocence is not required or expected. So where's the evidence of guilt?

Then you didn't listen to the entire conversation with Guilliani, who is not his lawyer by the way. Trump paid Cohen for his expenses and fees on a routine and regular basis. Included in those payments were the $130,000. Trump never paid that exact figure, but far more as he paid the bill the lawyer presented him. So it is very likely he did not know every expense breakdown or that particular payment. I do not know whether he did or did not. But unless it is known, no one can say whether he lied or not. As for e******n money, there has been zero evidence that any e******n money was used. Trump paid his lawyer faithfully both before, during, and after the campaign. Why would this be any different during the campaign? Unless you have some evidence you wish to share?
So when you continually post that Trump told thous... (show quote)



"Follow the money"... But count it as it travels along...

Reply
May 10, 2018 19:19:35   #
JoyV
 
JimMe wrote:
"Follow the money"... But count it as it travels along...


It's a short chain. Stormy received $130K from Cohen. Cohen gets paid by Trump which includes the out of pocket expenses and retainer. End of chain!

So what of it?

Reply
May 10, 2018 22:54:36   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
JoyV wrote:
It's a short chain. Stormy received $130K from Cohen. Cohen gets paid by Trump which includes the out of pocket expenses and retainer. End of chain!

So what of it?


Is extortion and black mail still a crime?

Reply
May 11, 2018 02:44:19   #
JoyV
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Is extortion and black mail still a crime?


So Stormy Daniels has committed crimes and Trump has not pressed charges. How does that make Trump a liar?

Reply
 
 
May 11, 2018 08:38:45   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
JoyV wrote:
So Stormy Daniels has committed crimes and Trump has not pressed charges. How does that make Trump a liar?


Joy; did you misunderstand me?
Extortion and blackmail was committed by Stormy, and now her pimp lawyer.
Trump should press charges.

Reply
May 11, 2018 08:49:15   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Joy; did you misunderstand me?
Extortion and blackmail was committed by Stormy, and now her pimp lawyer.
Trump should press charges.

Not all extortion and blackmail is illegal.

The laws were written by lawyers, so naturally lawyers have special privileges.

Reply
May 11, 2018 10:18:51   #
JoyV
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Joy; did you misunderstand me?
Extortion and blackmail was committed by Stormy, and now her pimp lawyer.
Trump should press charges.


Yes I understood. I just wanted to make it clear to others WHO did the extortion and blackmail.

Reply
May 11, 2018 10:25:44   #
JoyV
 
eagleye13 wrote:
If the Left succeeds in taking down Trump. This nation will we go back into decline; and that is what the Left wants.
Just follow the Coward and Piven Strategy.


Yup! For the first time EVER, our numbers of people seeking jobs equals our numbers of jobs available. If you were to go by the numbers alone, and not take into consideration location, qualifications, and other special factors; EVERY US citizen could have a job!!!! In reality there are those other factors so it isn't quite as good as that. But there has never before been an equivalent numbers of jobs as there are those seeking jobs. And this is just ONE of the numerous improvements from Trump policies!

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