The Educational Importance of Manners- That are Lacking in Children and Adults
Mar 7, 2018 23:22:10 #
The Educational Importance of Manners
By John Horvat II
“No one will deny that manners have declined.”
At first glance it might seem rather forced to make a connection between education and manners. In our secular society, manners like morals seem to be optional in the formation of youth.
It is something relegated to parents to teach children at the dinner table if and when they eat together. Manners are a feel good thing, a way to be nice to people, or maybe even a “social lubricant” that helps one get ahead but hardly an essential part of education.
If we accept the premise that education is the mere imparting of knowledge to children, then manners are indeed superfluous and really serve no purpose.
However, if we believe that education involves the formation of the whole character in addition to imparting knowledge, then we must enthusiastically endorse manners as something that has an enormous educational importance.
Indeed, when we say in Spanish that a person is “educado,” or literally “educated,” it is not to say he is a Ph.D. candidate. Rather it means he is well mannered. Similar distinctions were made in the Portuguese and Italian languages which show how these traditional societies definitely made the connection. The teaching of manners was a very important part of the whole education of a child.
And so manners and education definitely do mix.
However, it would be quite premature to recommend a mandated Manners 101 course in public schools or turn an edition of Manners for Dummies into a standard textbook.
This is because manners cannot be seen as a kind of a feel-good set of rules for being nice-to-everyone or a politically correct framework for tolerating just about anything. There are those who are all too ready to spin manners into, for example, “evolution’s solution to easing the stresses of communal living.”
If manners are to be taught, it must be within their proper framework. We must go beyond the rules of etiquette and into the very nature of manners themselves.
The Nature of Manners
What are manners? There are many good definitions: unenforced standards of conduct, passed down codes for human behavior, norms set by society to facilitate the common good and the concrete practice of charity toward our neighbor.
Manners are such that they become so ingrained in a person that they come to characterize that person. A lady is a term used for a woman who follows proper manners; a gentleman is the male equivalent. By these acts, we exteriorize something much more profound.
Manners are, therefore, mere exterior manifestations for a set of values and principles inside the individual and society. In themselves, they are sterile and artificial. If we reduce manners to fork positioning or social formulae, we reduce them to irrelevance. They become a kind of social reenactment without a real link to our modern day world.
Thus, if we are to reestablished manners and their proper role in education, we must reconnect with the values and principles that gave rise to them…and we must confront and disconnect with a culture that lives in denial of these very principles.
Desire for Good Manners
No one will deny that manners have declined. News polls reflect the opinion of most Americans that we have becoming ruder and more brutal in our treatment of others. We do not need pollsters to tell us this; we experience in our daily lives.
However, it is not from a lack of desire on the part of Americans to live in a more civil society. It often is not even from a lack of trying. Even the best of parents experience almost insurmountable difficulties in imparting manners to children. Everyone would certainly like to see more civility and manners.
No, we are uncivil because we are immersed in a culture that undermines those principles that give manners meaning. We are uncivil because in the sixties, we ourselves jettisoned what we considered the excess baggage of manners and civility so we could do our own thing.
Since then, we are engaged in what many have called a Cultural War – a battle much more important than politics and economics in the history of our nation. It is what Edmund Burke called that “most important of all revolutions, a revolution in sentiments, manners and moral opinions.”
In this struggle for our nation’s future, manners thus have a very important role. Our education system must necessarily be involved.
However, manners will only come back when youth are aware of the philosophical and metaphysical premises that support a civil society. To that effect, three such premises might be mentioned.
Beyond Locke: Radical Individualism
The first is a rejection of the radical individualism of our culture. Manners like tradition can only exist in a social context. We must direct them toward someone else.
We Americans tend to be social contract individualists. We take p***e in our self-esteem and self-sufficiency. However, we are now seeing a radical individualism that goes beyond Hobbes or Locke.
From our earliest youth, we were taught that each one is the center of the world. We do not think in social terms anymore. We do not think in terms of generations. Rather everything is oriented toward instant gratification of our desires. The only important thing is each one’s comfort and happiness. We simply do not care what other people think or do.
Sometimes we see people in the streets who present themselves without any consideration of how they look or offend people. Bad manners abound in the dirty ragged clothes, multiple piercing and undisciplined ways of speaking or eating seen everywhere. Individuals are oblivious to the existence of another. The message is: I do my own thing, and I simply don’t care if others are repulsed or offended by what I say or do. I am a world unto myself.
It must be admitted that the way our society is organized does not help in our social relationships. Everything in our society is done to minimize human contact. We are taught to bypass people by visiting ATMs, paying at the pump and using the omnipresent self-service option. The message is: I just take care of everything myself. I don’t need people. I don’t need manners. I am sufficient unto myself.
The result of this radical individualism is that we lose notions of charity toward others. We are reduced to the smallness of our own existence. It is an attitude that condemns the individual to a regime of self-imposed mediocrity.
Individuality not Individualism
Man was made to live, talk and act in society. By living in society, he enlarges his horizons and develops his individuality to its fullest.
Manners are enhanced by individuality, the development of a person’s full potential in society. However, manners are destroyed by individualism, whereby a person enthrones himself as the standard of all things.
Thus, education should open the eyes of youth to think beyond themselves. They should be taught that greatness exist in sacrifice and consideration for others. Education should propose to students the heroes and archetypes that embody these ideas. They should also be taught sound philosophical social principles about the nature of society, the common good and our role inside society.
Much to the secularists’ chagrin, that is why Christian education is especially suited to this purpose since Christian charity teaches us to overcome our natural self-centeredness and practice the love of neighbor for the love of God.
In a culture like this, manners spring up naturally and almost spontaneously. It is not something forced. Manners are a consequence of this education. It is a logic behavior that comes from reaching out beyond ourselves.
The Rejection of Crass Egalitarianism
The second premise that supports a civil society is a rejection of crass egalitarianism.
While all men are equal in their essence and entitled to certain fundamental rights, among them the right to life, men are unequal in their accidents and naturally tend to form different forms of treatment and consideration.
That is why it is an oxymoron to speak of socialist or c*******t manners. Where all men or comrades are the same, there is no reason to treat others differently. Where no one should excel, excellence is not rewarded or given special consideration.
Manners can only survive again in a social context and in an atmosphere where distinctions are made, where excellence is rewarded and difference are noted and even enjoyed.
One reason why we have an uncivil society is because it is a society of cultural egalitarianism. We are asked not to make distinctions. One of the things that makes political correctness almost tragically comical is that it destroys distinctions. It is a kind of egalitarian tyranny where nobody can acknowledge problems or inferiority anymore. Failure is now called “deferred success.” Everyone is somehow “challenged” and woe to the well-mannered person who tries to show compassion or condescendence.
We are asked not to recognize superiority. So often, our situation comedies portray characters that glory in the fact that they ridicule or humiliate others. We see the Bart Simpson syndrome where parents are made to look like fools in the eyes of their children. All authority is seen as clownish and not worthy of respect.
Manners are the habit of thinking about others; the act of adapting oneself to the individual person. They are naturally opposed to crass egalitarianism. They presuppose distinctions. They call upon us to honor those who are superior and excellent with special treatment. At the same time, we show compassion and consideration for that which is inferior or weak.
In this context, education must play a key role. Education has always recognized excellence. It has always reprimanded mediocrity. It is anti-egalitarian. And so if we instill honor and respect for different people in different circumstances in the child, he will naturally become, to borrow from the Spanish, “educado.” He will naturally adopt manners.
The Educational Importance of Manners
Instilling a Clear Idea of Purpose
Finally, the third premise for a return to civil society is that youth must be instilled with the clear idea of purpose to their lives. They must be given ideals greater than themselves.
There is nothing more terrifying to the soul of a youth than the conclusion that life has no purpose.
And yet so often, youth have been betrayed and given exactly this message by a secularist establishment. Anything that smacks of metaphysics or transcendence is labeled religious and therefore put on the index of forbidden subjects.
Many have disparaged intelligent design as creationism lite. But what is the philosophy of neo-Darwinism but existentialism heavy?
So many youth are taught that their lives are the mere result of randomness, mutation and adaptation without a clear purpose for life. Our culture teaches that life is a party, a beach – a mere succession of experiences without a real essence of its own.
The passion of youth is made for great causes; youth need a clear purpose. To quote the French writer Paul Claudel, “Youth was not made for pleasure, but for heroism.”
In the past, education instilled a clear idea about life and its purpose. Indeed, Great Books programs have this in mind by calling to mind the great ideas and purposes of times past.
Youth have always hungered for great ideals. It is not something from Mars. It is as true today as in the times of Plato.
An example that comes to mind is our military. Inflamed with the ideals of “honor, courage and commitment,” young people in our military find purpose in their lives and develop corresponding manners that belie their interior convictions almost as a secondary consideration.
This can be seen in many traditional colleges dedicated to the great idea that t***h exists that have sprung up over the last decades. They manage to instill this sense of purpose in their students. It is always accompanied by an accentuated sense of manners and civility.
Part of the Cultural War
Thus, we must teach manners with principles. Manners and education are inextricably linked. Our problem is not to separate the two but to unite them once again by reconnecting with the values and principles long lost.
Indeed, this matter of manners is catapulted beyond the mere reestablishment of manners and civility. It is part of Burke’s “most important of all revolutions” – that of sentiments, manners and moral opinions. It enters into the question of the cultural war that so polarizes our society.
These are the themes that are deciding the future of our country today. Americans have a hunger for such topics and part of the conservative reaction today is because so many have been mugged by the terrible reality of a society that lives in denial of these principles and values. They have crystallized into a reaction because of things like manners and education.
Other topics like Supreme Court justices and Social Security are indeed important. However, culture is where policy and reality meet in the daily lives of our citizens. This is where the real battle is taking place and we ignore these themes to our own peril.
By John Horvat II
“No one will deny that manners have declined.”
At first glance it might seem rather forced to make a connection between education and manners. In our secular society, manners like morals seem to be optional in the formation of youth.
It is something relegated to parents to teach children at the dinner table if and when they eat together. Manners are a feel good thing, a way to be nice to people, or maybe even a “social lubricant” that helps one get ahead but hardly an essential part of education.
If we accept the premise that education is the mere imparting of knowledge to children, then manners are indeed superfluous and really serve no purpose.
However, if we believe that education involves the formation of the whole character in addition to imparting knowledge, then we must enthusiastically endorse manners as something that has an enormous educational importance.
Indeed, when we say in Spanish that a person is “educado,” or literally “educated,” it is not to say he is a Ph.D. candidate. Rather it means he is well mannered. Similar distinctions were made in the Portuguese and Italian languages which show how these traditional societies definitely made the connection. The teaching of manners was a very important part of the whole education of a child.
And so manners and education definitely do mix.
However, it would be quite premature to recommend a mandated Manners 101 course in public schools or turn an edition of Manners for Dummies into a standard textbook.
This is because manners cannot be seen as a kind of a feel-good set of rules for being nice-to-everyone or a politically correct framework for tolerating just about anything. There are those who are all too ready to spin manners into, for example, “evolution’s solution to easing the stresses of communal living.”
If manners are to be taught, it must be within their proper framework. We must go beyond the rules of etiquette and into the very nature of manners themselves.
The Nature of Manners
What are manners? There are many good definitions: unenforced standards of conduct, passed down codes for human behavior, norms set by society to facilitate the common good and the concrete practice of charity toward our neighbor.
Manners are such that they become so ingrained in a person that they come to characterize that person. A lady is a term used for a woman who follows proper manners; a gentleman is the male equivalent. By these acts, we exteriorize something much more profound.
Manners are, therefore, mere exterior manifestations for a set of values and principles inside the individual and society. In themselves, they are sterile and artificial. If we reduce manners to fork positioning or social formulae, we reduce them to irrelevance. They become a kind of social reenactment without a real link to our modern day world.
Thus, if we are to reestablished manners and their proper role in education, we must reconnect with the values and principles that gave rise to them…and we must confront and disconnect with a culture that lives in denial of these very principles.
Desire for Good Manners
No one will deny that manners have declined. News polls reflect the opinion of most Americans that we have becoming ruder and more brutal in our treatment of others. We do not need pollsters to tell us this; we experience in our daily lives.
However, it is not from a lack of desire on the part of Americans to live in a more civil society. It often is not even from a lack of trying. Even the best of parents experience almost insurmountable difficulties in imparting manners to children. Everyone would certainly like to see more civility and manners.
No, we are uncivil because we are immersed in a culture that undermines those principles that give manners meaning. We are uncivil because in the sixties, we ourselves jettisoned what we considered the excess baggage of manners and civility so we could do our own thing.
Since then, we are engaged in what many have called a Cultural War – a battle much more important than politics and economics in the history of our nation. It is what Edmund Burke called that “most important of all revolutions, a revolution in sentiments, manners and moral opinions.”
In this struggle for our nation’s future, manners thus have a very important role. Our education system must necessarily be involved.
However, manners will only come back when youth are aware of the philosophical and metaphysical premises that support a civil society. To that effect, three such premises might be mentioned.
Beyond Locke: Radical Individualism
The first is a rejection of the radical individualism of our culture. Manners like tradition can only exist in a social context. We must direct them toward someone else.
We Americans tend to be social contract individualists. We take p***e in our self-esteem and self-sufficiency. However, we are now seeing a radical individualism that goes beyond Hobbes or Locke.
From our earliest youth, we were taught that each one is the center of the world. We do not think in social terms anymore. We do not think in terms of generations. Rather everything is oriented toward instant gratification of our desires. The only important thing is each one’s comfort and happiness. We simply do not care what other people think or do.
Sometimes we see people in the streets who present themselves without any consideration of how they look or offend people. Bad manners abound in the dirty ragged clothes, multiple piercing and undisciplined ways of speaking or eating seen everywhere. Individuals are oblivious to the existence of another. The message is: I do my own thing, and I simply don’t care if others are repulsed or offended by what I say or do. I am a world unto myself.
It must be admitted that the way our society is organized does not help in our social relationships. Everything in our society is done to minimize human contact. We are taught to bypass people by visiting ATMs, paying at the pump and using the omnipresent self-service option. The message is: I just take care of everything myself. I don’t need people. I don’t need manners. I am sufficient unto myself.
The result of this radical individualism is that we lose notions of charity toward others. We are reduced to the smallness of our own existence. It is an attitude that condemns the individual to a regime of self-imposed mediocrity.
Individuality not Individualism
Man was made to live, talk and act in society. By living in society, he enlarges his horizons and develops his individuality to its fullest.
Manners are enhanced by individuality, the development of a person’s full potential in society. However, manners are destroyed by individualism, whereby a person enthrones himself as the standard of all things.
Thus, education should open the eyes of youth to think beyond themselves. They should be taught that greatness exist in sacrifice and consideration for others. Education should propose to students the heroes and archetypes that embody these ideas. They should also be taught sound philosophical social principles about the nature of society, the common good and our role inside society.
Much to the secularists’ chagrin, that is why Christian education is especially suited to this purpose since Christian charity teaches us to overcome our natural self-centeredness and practice the love of neighbor for the love of God.
In a culture like this, manners spring up naturally and almost spontaneously. It is not something forced. Manners are a consequence of this education. It is a logic behavior that comes from reaching out beyond ourselves.
The Rejection of Crass Egalitarianism
The second premise that supports a civil society is a rejection of crass egalitarianism.
While all men are equal in their essence and entitled to certain fundamental rights, among them the right to life, men are unequal in their accidents and naturally tend to form different forms of treatment and consideration.
That is why it is an oxymoron to speak of socialist or c*******t manners. Where all men or comrades are the same, there is no reason to treat others differently. Where no one should excel, excellence is not rewarded or given special consideration.
Manners can only survive again in a social context and in an atmosphere where distinctions are made, where excellence is rewarded and difference are noted and even enjoyed.
One reason why we have an uncivil society is because it is a society of cultural egalitarianism. We are asked not to make distinctions. One of the things that makes political correctness almost tragically comical is that it destroys distinctions. It is a kind of egalitarian tyranny where nobody can acknowledge problems or inferiority anymore. Failure is now called “deferred success.” Everyone is somehow “challenged” and woe to the well-mannered person who tries to show compassion or condescendence.
We are asked not to recognize superiority. So often, our situation comedies portray characters that glory in the fact that they ridicule or humiliate others. We see the Bart Simpson syndrome where parents are made to look like fools in the eyes of their children. All authority is seen as clownish and not worthy of respect.
Manners are the habit of thinking about others; the act of adapting oneself to the individual person. They are naturally opposed to crass egalitarianism. They presuppose distinctions. They call upon us to honor those who are superior and excellent with special treatment. At the same time, we show compassion and consideration for that which is inferior or weak.
In this context, education must play a key role. Education has always recognized excellence. It has always reprimanded mediocrity. It is anti-egalitarian. And so if we instill honor and respect for different people in different circumstances in the child, he will naturally become, to borrow from the Spanish, “educado.” He will naturally adopt manners.
The Educational Importance of Manners
Instilling a Clear Idea of Purpose
Finally, the third premise for a return to civil society is that youth must be instilled with the clear idea of purpose to their lives. They must be given ideals greater than themselves.
There is nothing more terrifying to the soul of a youth than the conclusion that life has no purpose.
And yet so often, youth have been betrayed and given exactly this message by a secularist establishment. Anything that smacks of metaphysics or transcendence is labeled religious and therefore put on the index of forbidden subjects.
Many have disparaged intelligent design as creationism lite. But what is the philosophy of neo-Darwinism but existentialism heavy?
So many youth are taught that their lives are the mere result of randomness, mutation and adaptation without a clear purpose for life. Our culture teaches that life is a party, a beach – a mere succession of experiences without a real essence of its own.
The passion of youth is made for great causes; youth need a clear purpose. To quote the French writer Paul Claudel, “Youth was not made for pleasure, but for heroism.”
In the past, education instilled a clear idea about life and its purpose. Indeed, Great Books programs have this in mind by calling to mind the great ideas and purposes of times past.
Youth have always hungered for great ideals. It is not something from Mars. It is as true today as in the times of Plato.
An example that comes to mind is our military. Inflamed with the ideals of “honor, courage and commitment,” young people in our military find purpose in their lives and develop corresponding manners that belie their interior convictions almost as a secondary consideration.
This can be seen in many traditional colleges dedicated to the great idea that t***h exists that have sprung up over the last decades. They manage to instill this sense of purpose in their students. It is always accompanied by an accentuated sense of manners and civility.
Part of the Cultural War
Thus, we must teach manners with principles. Manners and education are inextricably linked. Our problem is not to separate the two but to unite them once again by reconnecting with the values and principles long lost.
Indeed, this matter of manners is catapulted beyond the mere reestablishment of manners and civility. It is part of Burke’s “most important of all revolutions” – that of sentiments, manners and moral opinions. It enters into the question of the cultural war that so polarizes our society.
These are the themes that are deciding the future of our country today. Americans have a hunger for such topics and part of the conservative reaction today is because so many have been mugged by the terrible reality of a society that lives in denial of these principles and values. They have crystallized into a reaction because of things like manners and education.
Other topics like Supreme Court justices and Social Security are indeed important. However, culture is where policy and reality meet in the daily lives of our citizens. This is where the real battle is taking place and we ignore these themes to our own peril.
Mar 7, 2018 23:28:54 #
Radiance3 wrote:
The Educational Importance of Manners br By John H... (show quote)
================
I thought I’d post these long narratives because lack of manners are the most important causes of children’s bad behavior, violence that are very prevalent in our society today. Manners in adults likewise have declined. Why?
Manners are always instilled by parents to children as part of their training. Exceptions to the decline in manners and bad behavior is lack of parental guidance.
Education and manners go hand in hand. Bad manners or lack of good manners have bankrupted our moral values, as well as our relationships with each other. People seemed to be focused on their own, thus becoming selfish to the needs of other’s feelings.
One solution for this is having our Christian faith. God teaches us love for one another. It is great for children.
Mar 8, 2018 04:16:45 #
Radiance3 wrote:
The Educational Importance of Manners br By John H... (show quote)
The right wing in this country have derided good manners by calling common courtesy “political correctness.” For example, common sense and courtesy suggests that we reference to people in a manner that they prefer. The right feels that this denies them the use of racial and ethnic slurs among other vulgar terms that they cherish and have difficulty expressing themselves without. This intellectual corruption attempts to legitimize boorish uncivilized behavior as standing up to this f**e notion of political correctness.
Mar 8, 2018 06:01:26 #
Kevyn wrote:
The right wing in this country have derided good m... (show quote)
On the other hand if it’s you it’s probably because they just don’t llike you.
Mar 8, 2018 07:01:38 #
Bad Bob
Loc: Virginia
Radiance3 wrote:
================ br br I thought I’d post these l... (show quote)
"One solution for this is having our Christian faith. God teaches us love for one another. It is great for children."
So you v**ed for a lying adulterer for an example for our children.
Mar 8, 2018 07:58:23 #
Thank you for a timely topic. So many cannot be bothered to listen to others because they are so adamant about their own opinion. Polite plays a part in this especially at this time. Blind following leads to unhappy consequences. They cannot stop talking over each other on talk shows because of timeing. If we listened to each other fully perhaps we would be able to take parts of what others say and adjust our own thinking. We all have a right to our own opinion and actions until they intersect with others, but we need to listen to others and at times adjust ourselves. We all have bad days because of our health, events in our lives, etc. but sometimes a simple please or thank you goes a long way.
Mar 8, 2018 08:33:49 #
Radiance3 wrote:
================ br br I thought I’d post these l... (show quote)
Where there is no moral compass to society, ultimately there is no nation either..
Manners has been lost as well as the family nucleus and self respect , p***e, etc..Children spend hours on their computers playing k**l games that ultimately desensitize them..We know it yet dont change it.. It keeps them preoccupued and at least as one mother said to me, she knows he is at home not running the streets.... Reeeaaaalllyyy, one outweighs the other??
They aren't out being kids anymore.. Parents if lucky enough to have both are out working to maintain a home, food, etc and feeling guilty for not spending more time with children so they lavish them with gifts to make up for it while their kids expect it anymore..
Yes, Radiance you're right~~!Social sk**ls are lost as are manners...Both the responsibility of the parents and no one else.. Learned behavior should be an ongoing job of the parents from the time they are toddlers and never stops..
Yet, nothing is farthest from the t***h anymore..
We don't need to program our children, we need to love them and make the time necessary for them to know that as well as our expectations of them...Perhaps just getting back to sit down dinners as a family is a start??? Nofast food wh**ever, eat and run as it is anymore..
I think back to our family dinner on Sundays, Roast beef, baked potato etc, you were promptly there 3 pm after having gone to church and allowed to go outside to play until then.. No tv on, no phone calls taken, no music playing etc.. It was time to sit and talk about wh**ever....Our children and many adults need to have this as well..
Mar 8, 2018 08:50:57 #
Kevyn wrote:
The right wing in this country have derided good m... (show quote)
====================
You just showed your bad manners Kevyn by lying in this post. Democrats and liberals don't have manners and education. Why? They don't even believe in God. You know the God Christ who taught us to love one another? The democrats want to remove him and replace with Islam whose god is to k**l the children of Christ the most painful means. Democrats insult our God, want to remove the Crosses from places denying them of their First Amendment Rights.
What makes up the democrats are the following: Islam terrorists, I*****l a***ns who violate the laws of our country by selling drugs, drug addicts, raping our people, and k*****g our people, violent protesters like B*M, and A****A, Atheists, the lazy free loaders, a******nist democrat women, Planned Parenthood, women making so many babies with no husbands then require taxpayers to pay for their livelihood, LYING AND DEFRAUDING the American taxpayers like Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama your leaders.
Those are your comrades Kevyn. Your buddy friend Farrakhan's huge LYING AND DECEITFUL MOUTH JUST POLLUTED THE AIR WITH VERY UGLY LANGUAGE as all Muslims do. Similar to what you are doing.
Mar 8, 2018 10:06:21 #
Mar 8, 2018 11:09:56 #
Bad Bob wrote:
"One solution for this is having our Christian faith. God teaches us love for one another. It is great for children."
So you v**ed for a lying adulterer for an example for our children.
So you v**ed for a lying adulterer for an example for our children.
====================
Everything coming out from your mouth bad bob is toxic. Don't even try it!
Mar 8, 2018 13:34:04 #
Radiance3 wrote:
The Educational Importance of Manners br By John H... (show quote)
mayhaps if more' manners' are taught in our schools
there is just a chance there would be less school shootings
excellent post Radience
Mar 8, 2018 13:42:28 #
Bad Bob
Loc: Virginia
Radiance3 wrote:
==================== br You just showed your bad m... (show quote)
You're lying again, you do not even know a Muslin.
Mar 8, 2018 14:18:20 #
Bad Bob wrote:
You're lying again, you do not even know a Muslin.
==================
Get out of my post bod bob. Liars are not invited!
Mar 8, 2018 14:24:30 #
Radiance3 wrote:
==================
Get out of my post bod bob. Liars are not invited!
Get out of my post bod bob. Liars are not invited!
I have found that ignoring him works best and that way he doesn't give me high blood pressure.
Mar 8, 2018 14:42:36 #
bahmer wrote:
I have found that ignoring him works best and that way he doesn't give me high blood pressure.
==================
Good idea. He is like a fly hovering above.
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.