Doc110 Loc: York PA

01/06/2018 American Cardinal Takes Massive Stand Against Liberal Pope

John Falkenberg
https://conservativetribune.com/american-cardinal-takes-massive/

The American Cardinal of the Catholic church, Raymond Leo Burke, had a few words to say about Pope Francis’ stance concerning the way homosexuals are treated.

Some will be thrilled — many will be furious.

Not only did he disagree with Pope Francis, he publicly made a statement to contradict him — an act of huge importance within the Catholic church when it comes to the pope.

In a December interview with O Clarim, Burke discussed the pope’s comments on apologizing to homosexuals.
www.oclarim.com.mo/en/2017/12/21/exclusive-interview-with-cardinal-raymond-burke-2-faith-and-tradition/

“In an in-flight interview, after the umpteenth question about homosexuals, the Holy Father (Pope Francis) said that we obviously must not discriminate and we have to ask forgiveness from these people for the way they are treated…,” the interview question began.


“I haven’t read the Pope’s text,” Burke responded.

“What I can say is that this year I turned 69, and I have spent my whole life in the Catholic Church.

I have never encountered discrimination against people who suffer from the homosexual condition.”

Whoa.

He then went from one jaw-dropping statement right into another.

“We know that we are dealing with an a******l condition:

God has not created us to have sexual relations with people of the same sex,” Burke said.

“This is not a discrimination against persons.

It is to affirm the t***h of Christ, the t***h of our faith.”

What he is saying is that Catholics are obligated to follow their own doctrine — which, of course they are.

Even aside from the biblical arguments to be made for or against homosexuality, the Catholic stance is made crystal clear in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex.

It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.

Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."

They are contrary to the natural law.

They close the sexual act to the gift of life.

They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity.

Under no circumstances can they be approved.
www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2357.htm


“Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.'”

“They are contrary to the natural law.

They close the sexual act to the gift of life.

They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity.

Under no circumstances can they be approved.” (2357)


The Catholic stance really isn’t up for debate.

“I must say sincerely, even though I haven’t read the words of the Pope, that I don’t see why the Church ought to ask forgiveness for teaching the t***h about sex and sexuality,” Burke said.

“Rather, during my priesthood of more than 42 years, I have always found priests very compassionate in meetings with people who have had this difficulty and have suffered from this condition,” he concluded.


I doubt that this will see much attention from the media — it speaks a little too pointedly at a pontiff who has been doing l*****ts favors for years with his rhetoric.
https://conservativetribune.com/pope-francis-needs-to-read/

It’s amazing to see a cardinal stand for consistency of his own religion over political correctness.

H/T CNSnews.com

Hemiman Loc: Communist California

Ricktloml

It's good to know that there are still those who won't bow to political correctness, especially in matters of faith

Kevyn

Can you say excommunication? The Pope is the church, not some hack cardinal. Perhaps the Westboro Baptist Church will welcome him.

Hemiman Loc: Communist California

Ask them next you are at one of those meetings.

rebob14

“You have need to call no man father, you have one Father, who is in heaven”.

out of the woods Loc: to hell and gone New York State

And that is the problem. Thank God, There are still men brave enough to speak THE T***H.

Radiance3

================
I hope many Catholic Cardinals in the US stand/defend the Original Holy Scriptures. The Pope has been changing to justify his own, perhaps because he grow up in a Socialist country in Argentina. But God does not change. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow!

I am a dev**e Catholic Christian, been sad since Pope Francis was elected and noticed his teachings aligned with liberals. He had deviated from many of the Biblical Scriptures. Many of his decisions justify the liberals/democrats/and socialists, even Muslims. I don't know what is going on in his head.

Big Kahuna

This Pope has l*****t roots, what would you expect. He also equates the islamic radicals to those in the Catholic religion who have some issues of their own but don't go around k*****g people in the name of Christ or beheading those who won't accept the Catholic religjon. This Pope is a charlatan masquerading as a man of God. We need a Pope like John Paul and not a l*****t stooge like Francis.

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Krazy kevyn,

I'm simply amazed and am confounded by your religious ignorance.

You really don't know anything, absolutely nothing, about Christian Catholicism !

You speak and say things for the sake of speaking, . . . total "Ignorance," . . . and just to "Shock" readers on the OPP Forum with your opinions.


Your just a liberal atheistic "Troll," with one second of fame on the OPP forum, . . . And are a laughing stock of Ignorance and Stupid-ty . . .


Krazy kevyn, Am I, upset, "No," . . . Am I, taking it personally, "No."


As usual, your statement is just plain ignorant and defiantly factually incorrect ! . . . And mostly just plain stupid. . . Nonsense. . . .


1. The Pope can't change Jesus's Magisterium teachings on Homosexuality and in the Catholic Catechism.

2. If the Pope did do that, There would be a synod or Catholic Council that rule and appose the Pope.

3. Pryor to his decision to change the rule, his advisors would advise against it this decision.

4. This is just a liberal Pope, that does not think about the ramifications of his statements. . . . And as usual, is taken out of context, as to his said statements.

5. The American Christian Catholic Cardinal Burke, will not be "Excommunicated." He might be cautioned, but not "Excommunicated."

6. I doubt after being a Catholic Priest for 42 years Cardinal Burke, would not even think or consider once being a member of the heretical Westboro Baptist Church.

The Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is a Baptist church community belief in hyper-Calvinism. e.g. (Romans 8:29-30).

And which is known for its use of inflammatory h**e speech, especially against L**T people (homophobia), Catholics (anti-Catholicism), Orthodox Christians (anti-Orthodoxy), Muslims (Islamophobia), Jews (antisemitism), U.S. soldiers and politicians (anti-Americanism). etc. . . .


Krazed kevyn, Obviously you don't know anything, in that compost regurgitated synapse's, in your left sided hemisphere, you can't think logically.

Your nothing but an attention getter, and rabble rouser of h**e ignorance, who thinks he is politicly and religiously witty and is humorous.

Now back to your Liberal atheistic "Troll" hole . . . Krazed kevyn.

Or stay in the corner until, I say it's time to come out. . . . . when hell freezes over. . . .


[quote=Kevyn


Can you say excommunication?

The Pope is the church, not some hack cardinal.

Perhaps the Westboro Baptist Church will welcome him.[/quote]

Doc110 Loc: York PA

rebob14,

Let me help you with your understanding of Matthew 23:9: . . . A little bit better, . . . with bold, . . . Scriptural Biblical references to retort your Religious Opinion and Statement.

Jesus couldn’t contradict Himself, nor could His apostles blatantly disregard, or be unfamiliar with His teaching (found right in inspired Scripture!).


[b]1.rebob14, You have taken this scriptural verse totally out of context and it's biblical verse implication and teaching of Jesus Christ?


2.rebob14, Please, read the excerpts and biblically scriptural retort to you inaccurate Religious Comment and Statement.


3. rebob14, and Please do respond, I would like to here your response as to the of Holy Scriptural facts and Biblical evidence provided to you.


4. rebob14, This is a commonly quoted misinterpretation, by protestants and anti-Catholic's sentiment's of Holy Scripture, found in Matthew 23:9: . . .


The Scriptural Biblical sources and Jesus's and his Apostles references speak for them selves. . . . (See Below) . . .


rebob14, On Matthew 23:9:
“Jesus uses hyperbole, to post a warning that no one should p***efully desire honorific titles.


Definition: noun, Hyperbole: Rhetoric, obvious and intentional exaggeration. A deliberate exaggeration used for effect:

An extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally.

Definition: Greek hyperbolḗ: Excess, exaggeration, throwing beyond, equivalent to throw, overstatement or understatement, from ballein to throw. Rhetorical sense is found in Aristotle, . . . Socrates and Jesus's Christ's teachings.


His words are not meant to be taken literally. …

The spiritual fatherhood of New Covenant priests is an extension of its application to Old Covenant priests.
Judg 17:10; 18:19.”


Here are two Religious article that that might help you with your Protestant anti-Catholic Biblical Skepticism . . .

Calling priests father vs. ‘Call no man father’?
http://www.themichigancatholic.org/2017/05/calling-priests-father-vs-call-no-man-father/

Biblical Evidence for “Holy Father” and “Vicar of Christ”
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2015/09/biblical-evidence-for-holy-father-vicar-of-christ.html


rebob14, This is one of those “garden variety” objections to Christian Catholicism that come up so very often.

Like many such contra-Catholic arguments, it seems to have plausibility, . . . at first glance. . . .

But upon closer examination, the alleged difficulty vanishes.

As is frequently the case, this “Argument” hinges on an ignorance, of different forms or genres of language in the Bible, and the importance of context.


rebob14, Critics of the Catholic Church frequently misunderstand. . . . both factors.


Matthew 23:9 (RSV): “And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.”

That seems straightforward enough, doesn’t it?

How do Catholics get around this?

Are we wantonly disregarding and disobeying a direct command of our Lord Jesus?


No, not at all.


Jesus was simply using the common Hebrew teaching method of exaggeration or hyperbole.

This is common in, for example, the book of Proverbs.


Here are several other instances of the same sort of thing:

Matthew 7:3:
“Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?”

Matthew 18:9:
“And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.”

Matthew 19:24:
“Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 23:24:
“You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!”

Luke 14:26:
“If any one comes to me and does not h**e his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.”


Jesus was making the point that God the Father is the ultimate source of all authority.


He said this during the course of rebuking the Pharisees for spiritual p***e.
Mt 23:2-10:


Those who try to reason in this way neglect to see that it would prohibit all uses of the word “father” whatsoever;

Even biological fathers.

Because that is an absurd outcome, it is clear that the statement cannot be taken in an absolute sense.


Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch, in The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2010) comment on.

Matthew 23:9:
“Jesus uses hyperbole to post a warning that no one should p***efully desire honorific titles.


His words are not meant literally. …


The spiritual fatherhood of New Covenant priests is an extension of its application to Old Covenant priests.
Judg 17:10; 18:19.”

Judges 17:10: reads:
“And Micah said to him, ‘Stay with me, and be to me a father and a priest, …’”

Judges 18:19:
Likewise uses the phraseology of “be to us a father and a priest.”

Jesus clearly didn’t have in mind a sweeping prohibition, since He Himself uses the term “father” many times (and thus was not even following His own command, if the criticism is correct):

Matthew 15:4:
“For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die.’” [from the Ten Commandments]

Matthew 19:5:
“… ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’ …”

Matthew 21:31:
“Which of the two did the will of his father? …”

Luke 16:24:
“And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, …’” (cf. 16:27, 30)

John 8:56:
“Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad.”


St. Stephen, St. Paul, St. James, and the author of Hebrews use the term “father,” too:

Acts 7:2:
“And Stephen said: ‘Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham …’”

Romans 4:12:
“… the father of the circumcised … our father Abraham …”

Romans 4:16-17:
“… Abraham, for he is the father of us all, as it is written, ‘I have made you the father of many nations …’”

Romans 9:10:
“And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac.”

1 Corinthians 4:15:
“For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.”

Philippians 2:22:
“But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel.”

Philemon 10:
“I appeal to you for my child, Ones’imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.”

Hebrews 12:7, 9:
“… for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? … Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. …”

James 2:21:
“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?”


Early Protestant leader John Calvin also acknowledged that Jesus’ words couldn’t be taken literally, in his Commentaries, on.
Matthew 23:9:

John Calvin, e.g. “The honor of a father is falsely ascribed to men, when it obscures the glory of God. … strictly speaking, God alone is the Father of all.”


It’s a standard rule in hermeneutics (the interpretation of Scripture) that we interpret less clear passages of the Bible in light of clearer passages.


This is a classic case.

[i]What seemed so simple at first is shown to be a more complex, hyperbolic saying that can’t possibly be taken literally, in light of related scriptural data.[i]


Jesus couldn’t contradict Himself, nor could His apostles blatantly disregard or be unfamiliar with His teaching (right in inspired Scripture!).


Ergo, Therefore, the objection to calling Catholic priests “father” must be discarded, as a thoroughly misguided “non-starter.”


rebob14, Do you now understand Jesus Christ's teaching, on this biblical phrase in Matthew 23:9:

A little bit better. . . .


[quote=rebob14

“You have need to call no man father, you have one Father, who is in heaven”.[/quote]

glibona Loc: Nevada

Thank you Cardinal Burke for clarification and the t***h regarding Catholic faith, doctrine and tradition of non-discriminatory treatment of homosexual persons. ... and also for stating that the Catholic stance and belief according to Sacred Scripture - is that the practice of the homosexual act itself is what is considered in Catholic doctrine and faith to be intrinsically disordered, contrary to natural law and purpose for the procreation of life.

glibona Loc: Nevada

As for the political views of the current Pope Francis - popes are elected to the Papacy not for the purpose of secular political persuasion but for the purpose as the Holy Father to guide Catholics in Christian matters of faith and dogma.
Regardless of Pope Francis' political views- they do not mandate or reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ as seen in Sacred Scripture.

Doc110 Loc: York PA

glibona,

I agree with you.


We are always reminded by Jesus Christ's scriptural teaching.

The Catholic doctrine and Catechism only confirms Jesus's teachings.

The Pope is only human, and is infallible . . . in this respect.


Why he is talking in this Liberal way fashion, is beyond me, and my comprehension. It amazes me.


This is where the Pope is fallible when he politicly speaks and Liberally speaks contrary to Scripture and Church teaching.

He the Pope cannot change, Jesus's teaching, Catholic doctrine, Magisterial teaching, Church Tradition, or the Catholic Catechism.

Only Christ centered Church, Magisterium teaching and scripture is always infallible in this respect,

A Christ centered teaching and with the Holy Spirits guidance.


[quote=glibona

As for the political views of the current Pope Francis -

Popes are elected to the Papacy not for the purpose of secular political persuasion but for the purpose as the Holy Father to guide Catholics in Christian matters of faith and dogma.

Regardless of Pope Francis' political views,-

They do not mandate or reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ as seen in Sacred Scripture.[/quote]

samtheyank

No Kevyn the Pope is not the Church. The Church is The Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Scriptures are Jesus Christ. It is plainly stated in the first three verses in the Gospel of John. The Holy Scriptures, Christ, plainly state that homosexuality is a sin. God does not tolerate sin. This very fact has been stated in both the Old and New Testament. Men, who are sinful, ignore this fact because it does not fit into their agenda or view of things. This also applies to the Pope. He is guilty of heresy and is an ignorant asshole. He has a little authority and he uses that authority to shape things according to his view of things. He will have to stand before Christ and give an account of that. A Pope can just as easily be sent to hell as any sinner who has denied Christ. He is as much of a human being as any other person God has created during the existence of the human race. This is a fact and without exception.