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Why does God allow good people to suffer? Sharing the Passion of Christ
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Dec 13, 2017 18:30:12   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Doc110 wrote:
Jack,

Here is the Christian, references to Suffering and Evil.

Christianity believes in a benevolent God who created the universe and all things in it.

The genesis of creation was God's overflowing love, and God's plan for creation is rooted in divine goodness.

God created humans in order to love them as a parent loves his or her children.

In a universe such as this, how do Christians understand suffering and evil?

Why would God, a benevolent creator who loves all creatures, especially God's human children, allow evil and suffering to exist?

Effects of natural disaster Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/icma/3635128865/

Christians have faith in a good and loving Creator who has a plan for creation that is also good and loving.

This tenet of faith has prompted Christians to seek explanations or justifications for suffering. Human suffering takes many forms: emotional, natural, and moral.

Loneliness, anxiety, and grief are examples of emotional suffering. Fires, tornados, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunami, and physical illnesses (e.g., cancer) are examples of natural suffering.

Moral suffering is brought on by the deliberate acts of fellow human beings to cause suffering, something Christians call a moral evil.

Irenaeus Source:

Public DomainToward the end of the 2nd century, Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons and a Church Father, formulated an theodicy, an argument intended to show that evil is necessary for human moral and spiritual development and is part of God's purpose.

God created humans in a morally and spiritually imperfect state so that they can strive in response to suffering, in order to grow into full fellowship with God.

This argument continues to influence Christian thought and belief.


Another early argument with strong contemporary resonance was advanced by the influential theologian Augustine, born in 354, who became the Bishop of Hippo in north Africa.

Augustine proposed that, since God endowed people with free will, we were able to freely choose to do evil as well as good.

Simply stated, there is evil in the world because humans choose to do evil things.

"Free" will is not free if we can only choose the good, so God does not prevent us from choosing evil.

Suffering is the price we pay for this freedom to choose.


G. W. Leibniz Source:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arenamontanus/449898343/

A third explanation of evil was advanced by the 18th-century philosopher G.W. Leibniz who believed that despite our suffering, and the tragic and catastrophic events in our lives, we are living in the best of all possible worlds.

God is in control, Leibniz believed.

When something terrible happens, it is not because God is not involved.

God allowed it in order to prevent an even more terrible event from occurring.

God is able to anticipate and prevent consequences that we cannot see.

Since God is good and loving, we can trust that God creates and sustains the best possible world.


There are other Christian responses to evil that do not claim that evil is part of God's divine plan.

Some Christians believe that God disciplines us just as a human father might discipline his children.

Our suffering, therefore, is God's punishment, and is a sign to us that we should repent.

Others believe that God uses suffering to test our faith in divine providence and that suffering is an opportunity to make faith stronger and more constant.

Another belief is that our suffering in our earthly life is only temporary and will add radiance and joy to our eternal life.

Others might say that evil is nothing but the absence of good, a strong reminder to us that we should work harder to bring good into this world.

Still others might argue that God's connection with the created order is so profound that God has bound divine providence and omnipotence to the human experience.

God's activity in the affairs of creation, then, is powerful, but not directive or controlling.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cdrummbks/3756574568/

More contemporary approaches to evil include the argument that evil is not a problem for Christian faith.

In the Old Testament, the Psalms regard creation as a revelation of God's goodness.

Evil, also a part of God's creation, must reveal that inherent goodness as well, if we know how to look. Recently some Christians have stopped viewing evil as an existential problem, and begun viewing it as a practical problem.

Some, like Alyosha Karamazov, the character in Dostoevsky's novel The Brothers Karamazov, believe that the evil in our midst requires that we act to end it.

Explanations or justifications of evil's existence are only secondary to this call to action, or are not at all meaningful.

Psalms 13:1-3
How long will you forget me, O Lord? Forever?
How long will you hide your face from me?
How long must I take counsel in my soul,
having sorrow in my heart daily?
How long will my enemy be exalted over me?
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God!

In all cases, Christians have been heard to cry out with the Psalmist, "How long, O Lord?" One response, uniquely Christian, is the belief that God suffers too.

Through Christ's suffering and pain on the cross of crucifixion, God submitted to the same evil that torments so many.

This response does not explain or justify evil, but it helps Christians to bear it.

They trust that, even in their pain, God is with them. In the meantime, Christians hold onto the hope that ultimately God and God's good purposes will prevail, permanently defeating Satan and evil.

Study Questions:
1. Why do Christians struggle with the problem of suffering?
2. How is suffering manifested?
3. How does suffering become a vehicle to a closer relationship with God?
4. What are the contemporary approaches to the problem of evil?
Jack, br br Here is the Christian, references to ... (show quote)




Here is an example how cultic minds work. After outlining the Christian view of suffering........ You addressed zero.

I only used scripture, not dogma.

Cults are incapable of addressing only scripture given them, staying on topic in context.

Here's the problem, you did not address "specifically my post. Only cut and pasted a pat catholic response that did not address scripture given you" specifically.

I'm not impressed by your ability to cut and paste catholic propaganda because it removes your ability to think for yourself.

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Dec 13, 2017 19:14:01   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Doc110 wrote:
So Jack, I did your homework on all the major Protestant faiths, Catholic and Eastern Orthodox ?

Which one do you closely identify with on suffering and evil?

a. Methodists and Wesley's understanding ?
b. Lutherans and Luther's understanding ?
c. Evangelical Pentecostalism, E. W. Kenyon, Kenneth Copeland, and Charles Capps understanding ?
e. Evangelical Presbyterian and Reformed Zwingli and Calvin understanding ?
f. Anglican/Episcopalian understanding ?
g. Baptist traditional understanding ?
h. Protestant Heading and understanding ?
I. Eastern Orthodox Christians understanding ?

Present facts Jack, and not your one-sided limited Evangelical Bible only understanding in suffering and evil ?
So Jack, I did your homework on all the major Prot... (show quote)



I listed mine, if you read my post you would be able to tell me
Again you reject scripture provide.

Reply
Dec 13, 2017 19:16:48   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Doc110 wrote:
So Jack, I did your homework on all the major Protestant faiths, Catholic and Eastern Orthodox ?

Which one do you closely identify with on suffering and evil?

a. Methodists and Wesley's understanding ?
b. Lutherans and Luther's understanding ?
c. Evangelical Pentecostalism, E. W. Kenyon, Kenneth Copeland, and Charles Capps understanding ?
e. Evangelical Presbyterian and Reformed Zwingli and Calvin understanding ?
f. Anglican/Episcopalian understanding ?
g. Baptist traditional understanding ?
h. Protestant Heading and understanding ?
I. Eastern Orthodox Christians understanding ?

Present facts Jack, and not your one-sided limited Evangelical Bible only understanding in suffering and evil ?
So Jack, I did your homework on all the major Prot... (show quote)




Wrap your mind around the definition of a cult

" a group of people polarized around one man's opinion of the bible"

Reply
Dec 13, 2017 19:37:10   #
Doc110 Loc: York PA
 
"Jackie Boy,"

So where is your scripture, Bible, Book and Verse ?

The Cut and Paste References are facts, you obviously have a problem, with article argument facts and comprehending FACTS . . .

(Lk. 2:35) the second is those mysterious words of St Paul, “Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.” (Col. 1:24)

This then, helps to answer the most thorny of questions: Why does God allow good people to suffer?
The answer is, he did not spare his own son, but sent him to suffer and die for the redemption of the world. As we suffer, like Mary and St Paul, we join our sufferings and sacrifices with the sacrifice and suffering of Jesus himself, and as we do this–even just a little–then we join in with the redemptive work of Christ in the world.



You know the most hilarious thing, is . . . that I handed your evangelical argument on "Suffering."

That shows and tell's me that you did not read any of the articles and facts sent to you.

Your a Christian Evangelical "TROLL".

Go back to your hole, Christian Evangelical "TROLL".


"Jackie Boy," all you had to do was choose a Christian, Protestant or Church group.

"Jackie Boy," you couldn't intelligently even do that correctly. Try using dart's and take a flying stab at it.


"Jackie Boy," Iv'e remained on topic Suffering and Sharing the Passion of Christ, subject all along.

It's called using sound simple reasoning with facts to support your argument comments and statements, "Jackie Boy."


You provided, . . . No . . . Scripture or biblical references, . . . Their's . . . No facts or scriptural references . . . no where to be found in any and all your replies and comments.

Crickets . . . Crickets . . . Crickets . . .



"Jackie Boy," Produce some real facts and stop hiding behind your puritanical-evangelical name calling. What a boring child . . .

Cults, . . . that's just plain evangelical ignorant, Are you Evangelically religiously challenged ?

"Dumb and stupid is no way to go through life."
--John Wayne

Your a sick and demented individual, with no Christian religious knowledge, or has any religious historical education, no ability to communicate in english properly, and no writing reply skills to be able to present any facts, to support your religious contention and retort.

All you do, best is. . . . "Jackie Boy," . . . is name calling.

It's what you Evangelically hide behind, this is all you have in your retort religious defense writing.



As I said it several times before "Jackie Boy," your an Evangelical boring "Child."

Get your head and mind out of the compost heap of emptiness and nothingness.

Start using your mind and brain . . . for once . . .



jack sequim wa wrote:
Here is an example how cultic minds work.

After outlining the Christian view of suffering ........ You addressed zero.

I only used scripture, not dogma.

Cults are incapable of addressing only scripture given them, staying on topic in context.

Here's the problem, you did not address "specifically my post. Only cut and pasted a pat catholic response that did not address scripture given you" specifically.

I'm not impressed by your ability to cut and paste catholic propaganda because it removes your ability to think for yourself.
Here is an example how cultic minds work. br br ... (show quote)

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