pafret Loc: Northeast

“Madmen, North Korea, and War”


“Madmen, North Korea, and War”
by Peter Van Buren

“The seemingly accepted wisdom that American President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un are paired madmen on the edge of war has little to support it other than projected fears. There will be no war because war on the Korean peninsula benefits no one and is very bad for everyone (we’ll get to the madmen theory in a moment.)

North Korea’s weapons, nuclear and conventional, are arguably the most defensive ever fielded. The North has no realistic claims on overseas territory or resources to resolve, and its borders are stable. Its weapons have not been used offensively more or less since 1953. They exist within the most perfect example of mutually assured destruction history has seen.

Mutually assured destruction, MAD, is what kept the Cold War cool, the understanding that if either the United States or Russia unleashed nuclear weapons, both sides would be destroyed. The same applies today on the Korean Peninsula, where any conflict means the end of the North and the end of the Kim dynasty. “Conflict” in this sense also includes an invasion of South Korea by the North. The United States and its allies will win any fight. Kim and everyone with any power, influence or stake in the North knows that. The nation of North Korea exists to exist, living proof of its own juche philosophy of self-reliance. North Korea has no reason to start a war that will end in its own destruction. Its nuclear weapons are only useful if they are never used.

Any talk of an American conventional “surgical strike” ignores the reality that no amount of planning can ensure every weapon of mass destruction will be destroyed; if that was possible the United States would have done it. Any attack on North Korea will result in a nuclear response — there is nothing “limited” for a cornered animal fighting for its life. While it is unclear a North Korean missile could reach American territory, no one in Washington has ever been willing to bet the house that a submarine with a nuke, or North Korean special forces with a dirty bomb, couldn’t do significant damage to an American city. Or to Seoul and Tokyo, both also well within range of North Korean nuclear and conventional missiles.

So while the American mainland is not under the threat of mutually assured destruction from Pyongyang per se, war on the Korean Peninsula would inevitably destroy American allies South Korea and Japan, unleash radioactivity across the Pacific, and cripple the global economy such that from Washington’s point of view it does indeed exist in a state of virtual mutually assured destruction. Deterrence works. Ask the Cold War.

All that’s left is the madman theory, the idea that Kim and Trump are irrational, impulsive people who could just one night say let’s push the button. The problem with this theory is that nothing in history supports it.

The Kim dynasty has been in power some 70 years, three generations. They have weathered conventional conflict, famine, crushing sanctions, internal strife, and hostile acts. They survived the fall of the Soviet Union, the t***sition of China to a pseudo-capitalist economy, and American governments from Truman to Trump. You don’t stay in power for seven decades acting irrationally or impulsively. You stay in power and hold your own against multiple superpowers by careful action. And there is nothing in the current record to support any contention the current Kim might act any more irrationally than his nuclear-armed dad did.

The Central Intelligence Agency agrees. A top official said Kim’s actions are those of a “rational actor” motivated to ensure regime survival. “There’s a clarity of purpose in what Kim Jong UN has done,” according to Yong Suk Lee of the Agency’s Korea Mission Center. “Waking up one morning and deciding he wants to nuke Los Angeles is not something Kim is likely to do. He wants to rule for a long time and die peacefully in his own bed.”

Which leaves Trump as the last standing madman. The problem is, after some ten months, it is hard to point to any irrational act, an actual decision made or action taken that is without logic or reason, something that a madman did anyway knowing the consequences would be dire.

Forget the tweets; wh**ever they are, they have come to be seen by the world outside the media as inconsequential. The Tweets are mean, stupid, crude, unp**********l, provocative, and all the rest, but they have never added up to much more than steamy fuel for pop psychologists. Internationally, governments have learned to leave them unanswered except for the occasional diplomatic snark. Nothing that scales to the level of nuclear war-irrationality has actually happened.

The strongest case for “irrational” is based on Trump’s apparent impulsivity. Despite his lack of political experience, Trump has lived a very public life, in the spotlight for most of the time at least two of the three Kim’s have been on the world stage. He ran companies, made and lost money, he got himself elected president. He’s been in office now some ten months and absolutely none of the apocalyptic predictions people have made have come to pass. We end up right back at the tweets, a long string of impulsive remarks not followed by impulsive acts.

In comparison, President George W. Bush invaded Iraq in part because they tried to assassinate his dad 12 years earlier. It was Bush’s nonsensical inclusion of North Korea in his “Axis of Evil” that scuttled the last real attempt at nuclear diplomacy with Pyongyang. Bush provacatively demanded regime change, a string of actions which lead in a direct line to the North going nuclear in 2003. Bush also found time to refer to North Korea’s previous leader, Kim Jong Il, as a pygmy.

President Obama created new American wars in Syria, Libya, and Yemen, re-entered the Iraq war, and surged without result into Afghanistan. He held weekly meetings where he alone decided which human beings across the globe would be snuffed out by drones, allegedly claiming “I’m really good at k*****g people.” With one failed exception, Obama avoided substantive negotiations with Pyongyang, while threatening the United States “will not hesitate to use our military might” against the North.

And yet the current president is the one v**ed most likely to act impulsively and start a war. So far he’s the only recent president who hasn’t.

What’s left is the “but not yet” pseudo-argument, that wh**ever one expects Trump to do, just because he hasn’t done it does not mean he won’t. Hard to refute people who demand one foretell the future, but go ahead and bookmark this page and see how the conclusions look in a year.

At this point we have run out of reasons why there will be war on the Korean Peninsula. With the exception of the Trump element, all of the factors that will prevent war in 2017 have been preventing war in Korea for decades. There is nothing in the record, recent or historical, that supports the idea Trump (or Kim) will wake up for cocoa, push a button, and start World War III. It’s a rough, messy, incomplete version of peace, and we’re just going to have to learn to live with it.”
- http://original.antiwar.com/

Wolf counselor Loc: Heart of Texas

Jong Un appears to be too busy with some major infrastructure issues.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4806082/north-korea-nuclear-base-collapses-k*****g-200-radioactive-leak-fears-latest-updates/

boatbob2

Forget a surgical strike,Wait until the north koreans have another anniversary parade,when all the big wigs,will be there,under pain of death,if they arent there, THEN,bomb the heck out of the parade. get all the big wigs with one strike....end of story,not much collateral damage......

badbobby Loc: texas

That would just be plain murder bb
would you really want that???
Would you want us to go down in history as the only Nation to commit cold blooded murder,when war had not been declared?

boatbob2

YEP.It wouldnt bother me a bit,to be called a cold blooded murderer,why wait,until north korea decides to send us,,or our allies,a nuclear wake up call??? do you seriously think,that it would bother north korea,if,we called them a cold blooded murderer????? Or ,We can declare war,while our missles are 10 minutes away from striking them..... would that make you feel better???

pafret Loc: Northeast

We will turn the job over to the CIA, they like that kind of stuff. If they ever get called on it, they will blame it on the dead guy, who was in charge. If there is no convenient dead guy they will create one.

mouset783 Loc: Oklahoma

90,000,000 people dying from EMP doesn't seem to bother that fat little muskrat.Why should it bother us? Are you suggesting the pipsqueak will declare before blowing up the grid?

badbobby Loc: texas

[quote=mouset783]90,000,000 people dying from EMP doesn't seem to bother that fat little muskrat.Why should it bother us? Are you suggesting the pipsqueak will declare before blowing up the grid?[

quote] I think the fat guy wants to live and keep his power
I think he knows if he does try to use a nuke that he will be eliminated along with his entire country

and excuse me, but I don't believe in cold blooded murder

mouset783 Loc: Oklahoma

[quote=badbobby]

Excuse me I don't either I hope you are right about the little lunatic pig however can you explain if he does pull off the dreaded EMP how can we hurt him when nothing functions including our missles while he systematically destroys S Korea?

pafret Loc: Northeast

Our missiles allegedly are in "hardened" silos with the hardening specifically being against EMP. There are also EMP protected backup power systems which would permit retaliation.

Communicating the fire order might prove difficult if the enemy has the capability to send bombs into space and cripple or knock out our satellite system. A simultaneous attack on the satellite network as well as the power grid would compromise both communications and navigation. This is a technical tour de force but it is foolish to assume no one has such capability.

An interesting note, while North Korea is getting all of the attention with their ICBM launches, we are testing ICBM's out of Vandenberg AFB in Lompoc California. A Minuteman 3 missile was launched on Aug 2, 2017 and it sent an unarmed re-entry vehicle 4,200 miles across the Pacific to a target area at Kwajalein Atoll.

badbobby Loc: texas

It is a definite fact that the United States has superior weapons than No Korea
any attack by 'rocket man'would bring total destruction to him and all of No Korea

mouset783 Loc: Oklahoma

That is a great response however not being alive to enjoy his destruction is a bit of a problem.

badbobby Loc: texas

that is exactly why "rocket man"will never try

mouset783 Loc: Oklahoma

I was talking about me after an EMP attack.

badbobby Loc: texas

that will not happen mouse
"rocket man"is not insane
in spite of what you might think
he wants to stay in power for a long time
he doesn't want to self destruct